FE4 Gen 2 list

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Delmud (Claude) and Nanna (Fin) are missing, while their sibling with those parents is listed.

Rana (Azel) does mess up Lester, but I'd probably list it anyways. Speaking of pairings that only really benefit 1 child, Rana (Lex) reaches Level 30 before any other Rana promotes. Eh, just throwing ideas off the wall here. >_>

[Dat Nick]

Delmud (Claude) and Nanna (Fin)

...Wait, why did I even put Claude!Nanna up there? And yeah, I did foret Nanna (Fin) come to think of it.

Rana (Lex) reaches Level 30 before any other Rana promotes.

um, couldnt you say this with pretty much anybody with Lex as their father? I mean

Delmud (Lex) reaches Level 30 before any other Delmud promotes.

Arthur (Lex) reaches Level 30 before any other Arthur promotes.

et cetera

Or if you mean that Rana would gain the ability to attack on promotion is more notable, the fact that she has no pursuit cancels it out.

Rana (Azel) does mess up Lester, but I'd probably list it anyways.

I'm more than willing to if the benefit Rana gains is worth it.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Germany

[Renall]

Rana (Azel) does mess up Lester, but I'd probably list it anyways.

I'm more than willing to if the benefit Rana gains is worth it.

Well, I don't know if it's "worth it," but she gets Pursuit, vastly better MAG (65% vs. 32% with Midir as dad), slightly better SPD and HP. The MAG is nice, but she's not terrible at it to begin with.

She gets +5 MAG from Fin if he's her dad, right? Plus Prayer. So Fin is probably a more plausible "screw Lester" pairing than Azel, since at least Lester gets Fin's physical growths. Azel really hits his STR hard.

So forget I said anything about Azel.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

It's not worth it. 5 MOV.

[Dat Nick]

he gets +5 MAG from Fin if he's her dad, right? Plus Prayer. So Fin is probably a more plausible "screw Lester" pairing than Azel, since at least Lester gets Fin's physical growths.

And pursuit, plus Rana likes Prayer and more durability. No bow inheritence, but that's much easier to work around than shit STR, plus Azel wasn't giving him anything to begin with.

So yeah, I'm liking this one MUCH better than Azel.

Also, there's no point in having the LachesisxBeowulf kids right next to the LachesisxFin ones, so I killed the Beowulf versions.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Germany

[Blademaster!]

he gets +5 MAG from Fin if he's her dad, right? Plus Prayer. So Fin is probably a more plausible "screw Lester" pairing than Azel, since at least Lester gets Fin's physical growths.

And pursuit, plus Rana likes Prayer and more durability. No bow inheritence, but that's much easier to work around than shit STR, plus Azel wasn't giving him anything to begin with.

So yeah, I'm liking this one MUCH better than Azel.

Also, there's no point in having the LachesisxBeowulf kids right next to the LachesisxFin ones, so I killed the Beowulf versions.

After looking over the tier list after updates had been made, I have a few complaints. The first is Jamaka!Faval over Holyn!Faval. Although Holyn doesn't pass any skills on to Faval, he passes on good skl, a nessecity for Faval since the Ichival has 70 hit. Normally you could say that since he has continue and duel he has more chances to hit, it works out fine, but the difference in skill between the two parents is huge. Holyn!Faval can have a base of 21 skl and has a 95% skl growth. Jamaka!Faval has base 14 skl and a 25% skl growth. A 10% hit difference can mean alot and your more likely to get RNG screwed with a 25% growth compared to a 95% growth. And I think Lex!Faval should probably be below both of them. All he gives is Elite (which is nice) and better Def and skl in Jamaka's case and Str in Holyn's case.

Second, I think Levin!Fee should be under Noish!Fee, if not possibly above. Noish gives her better Def (by 3 points) better imediate str, along with duel and continue upon promotion. Levin gives better everything else, especially in Magic, and much better imediate speed, though at lvl 30 it's only a 2 point difference. Levin!Fee may seem weaker Str wise, but the +5 Str boost evens them out. Levin also gives continue on the spot and when combined with how good her speed is before promotion anyway, it makes for a good combonation. And I don't know how much duel would help a pegasus knight with not so great HP.

And I don't Know if you should get ride of Beowolf!Lachesis's children. Fin's children are better, esspecially in Nanna's case, but some people may like the Idea of giving Delmud duel or something.

[_____]

Not putting BeowulfxLachesis on the list even though it's far more likely than FinxLachesis is a rather odd decision.

[Dat Nick]

Ichival may have 70 hit, but FE4 enemies have lol avoid, sometimes going into the negatives still by this point. Also, x2 levelling speed is pretty much why Lex!Faval>The other two.

oh, and don't ignore Luck. +18 lck is +18 hit, and Faval pretty much always caps out luck regardless of who his father is.

Fin's children are better, esspecially in Nanna's case, but some people may like the Idea of giving Delmud duel or something.

some might. But it's quite unnecessary to have both children right next to each other in both sets of pairings. If they're right next to each other then they're so close it barely makes a difference, so you may as well just mash them into one.

Not putting BeowulfxLachesis on the list even though it's far more likely than FinxLachesis is a rather odd decision.

I believe it was argued that Fin was worth the extra hassle/not that much of a hassle at all. Regardless, I don't think it's necessary to tier both, so if the Beowulf versions are to be tiered, so be it.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Germany

[_____]

I believe it was argued that Fin was worth the extra hassle/not that much of a hassle at all. Regardless, I don't think it's necessary to tier both, so if the Beowulf versions are to be tiered, so be it.

I may be alone on this, but I think having to glue Fin to Lachesis for the rest of his playtime, which inhibits his usefulness since Lachesis is pretty awful during this time, is a pretty big hassle, and for Prayer and no sword inheritance.

[Eltoshen]

After looking over the tier list after updates had been made, I have a few complaints. The first is Jamaka!Faval over Holyn!Faval. Although Holyn doesn't pass any skills on to Faval, he passes on good skl, a nessecity for Faval since the Ichival has 70 hit. Normally you could say that since he has continue and duel he has more chances to hit, it works out fine, but the difference in skill between the two parents is huge. Holyn!Faval can have a base of 21 skl and has a 95% skl growth. Jamaka!Faval has base 14 skl and a 25% skl growth. A 10% hit difference can mean alot and your more likely to get RNG screwed with a 25% growth compared to a 95% growth. And I think Lex!Faval should probably be below both of them. All he gives is Elite (which is nice) and better Def and skl in Jamaka's case and Str in Holyn's case.

or any weapons, for that matter, since we don't want to spam Ichival.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Eltoshen

[_____]

or any weapons, for that matter, since we don't want to spam Ichival.

It's inverted for Briggid and her husband. Why do you think people like Holyn!Patty? Holyn passes on his Hero Sword and such.

[Dat Nick]

I may be alone on this, but I think having to glue Fin to Lachesis for the rest of his playtime, which inhibits his usefulness since Lachesis is pretty awful during this time, is a pretty big hassle, and for Prayer and no sword inheritance.

Like I said, I'm not the one you should be discussing it with.

[_____]

I know, I know. I'm just saying.

[Eltoshen]

or any weapons, for that matter, since we don't want to spam Ichival.

It's inverted for Briggid and her husband. Why do you think people like Holyn!Patty? Holyn passes on his Hero Sword and such.

Shit, how'd I forget this.

[Renall]

I'm fine with combining Fin/Beowulf for Lachesis's kids if indeed they are essentially equivalent as long as we note they're basically the same by appending [Fin/Beowulf] or something. I'm not convinced they are the same though.

I like how Lex is pretty much cementing his status as the best father in the game here. If we did a Parenting Tier List, he'd be in Lex Tier.

[Mekkah]

I'm gonna respond to a bunch of things that aren't right because they irk me.

Rana (Azel) does mess up Lester, but I'd probably list it anyways. Speaking of pairings that only really benefit 1 child, Rana (Lex) reaches Level 30 before any other Rana promotes. Eh, just throwing ideas off the wall here. >_>

Rana remains a healbot, and Lester has no good skils. Don't list it.

For Azel x Aideen, no please. Rana can't even inherit the Rescue Staff (she has B staves, Rescue is A), and Lester is stuck with doubling with Iron Bow for Ch6, then Steel in Ch7, then Hero doesn't come until near Ch8 Blume, and Killer won't come until Ch8 is over. Alternatively you can get these by passing them to Faval, but he comes around the same time as the Hero Bow dropping General, so that doesn't help much. And really, coolbowless Lester _sucks_ compared to the normal forms, and Lana doesn't improve notably until she promotes. And she'll still have to healbot most of the time, if only because her move and durability are terrible, and High Priest can't use anything above basic spells. Well, she can use Elfire with Azel as a dad, but then she doesn't dodge anything.

She gets +5 MAG from Fin if he's her dad, right? Plus Prayer. So Fin is probably a more plausible "screw Lester" pairing than Azel, since at least Lester gets Fin's physical growths. Azel really hits his STR hard.

Yes, but Lester is still stuck with hardly any bows, and this pairing is rather inconvenient for Gen 1 since the only time you can reasonably build up points is in Ch1. After that, you want Fin in the thick of the action and Aideen far away from it.

After looking over the tier list after updates had been made, I have a few complaints. The first is Jamaka!Faval over Holyn!Faval. Although Holyn doesn't pass any skills on to Faval, he passes on good skl, a nessecity for Faval since the Ichival has 70 hit.

Go read my essay on Faval with Lex as a dad. You'll note his hit is fine even without factoring in the faster growth from Elite.

oh, and don't ignore Luck. +18 lck is +18 hit, and Faval pretty much always caps out luck regardless of who his father is.

B2BD, luk does not give hit in FE4. It only gives 1 avo (per point)

Second, I think Levin!Fee should be under Noish!Fee, if not possibly above. Noish gives her better Def (by 3 points) better imediate str, along with duel and continue upon promotion. Levin gives better everything else, especially in Magic, and much better imediate speed, though at lvl 30 it's only a 2 point difference. Levin!Fee may seem weaker Str wise, but the +5 Str boost evens them out.

Fee doubles everything she wants already and can use two different types of Hero weapons, why do you insist she wants more speed? Noish actually helps her str a lot (2 points, 4 per double, 8 with Hero). The +5 str convo comes in Ch10, which leaves 6-9 with a bad str'd Fee. For "better everything else", here's more detail to it (base and growth):

+ is Levin wins, - is Noish wins

hp: 0, +5%

str: -1, -15%

mag: +1, +5%

skl: +1, +5%

spd: +1, +35%

def: -1, -10%

res: 0, +3%

luk: 0, 0%

Winning "everything else" isn't worth much when your leads consist of 0-1 points in bases and 3-5% in growths.

EDIT: How'd I forget this

A 10% hit difference can mean alot and your more likely to get RNG screwed with a 25% growth compared to a 95% growth.

WRT tier lists, being RNG screwed means your stats are below average, so this statement is false. Holyn as a dad makes him more likely to have higher skill, which means his averages are simply higher. There is nothing more to it than that.

EDIT 2:

Also, unless in very radical cases like Holsety!Arthur versus others, I think same kids of different fathers should generally be very close to each other. So no tier gaps between Fees and stuff imo. If a kid becomes so much worse with a different father, it is probably a bad pairing unless the other kid becomes that much better with it.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Mekkah

[_____]

I'm fine with combining Fin/Beowulf for Lachesis's kids if indeed they are essentially equivalent as long as we note they're basically the same by appending [Fin/Beowulf] or something. I'm not convinced they are the same though.

Beowulf!Delmud and Fin!Delmud have basically the same base stats and growths. The only differences are that Beowulf!Delmud has +1s on Fin!Delmud in Strength and HP (and 10% higher growths in those areas), and Fin!Delmud has 4 Luck and a 30% growth more. Neither seems to be particularly decisive to me.

It really comes down to Prayer vs. Charge and sword inheritance.

It affects Nanna even less.

Beowulf!Nanna has 2 HP and a 5% growth there, and has 1 strength and another 5% growth.

Fin!Nanna has 2 Luck and a 15% growth (and a 2% higher magic growth, but when it's 5% vs 7%, it doesn't matter).

And, of course, we have Prayer vs. Charge.

I'm not quite sure which is better, to be honest.

[Dat Nick]

Rana remains a healbot, and Lester has no good skils. Don't list it.

um, we agreed AdeenxAzel was shit a page ago.

Yes, but Lester is still stuck with hardly any bows, and this pairing is rather inconvenient for Gen 1 since the only time you can reasonably build up points is in Ch1. After that, you want Fin in the thick of the action and Aideen far away from it.

The main logic here was "It beats the snot out of AdeenxAzel", but I suppose that doesn't say much. Did I list it? I should probably wipe it off.

B2BD, luk does not give hit in FE4. It only gives 1 avo (per point)

It doesn't? huh.

Also, unless in very radical cases like Holsety!Arthur versus others, I think same kids of different fathers should generally be very close to each other. So no tier gaps between Fees and stuff imo. If a kid becomes so much worse with a different father, it is probably a bad pairing unless the other kid becomes that much better with it.

Okay, but I'm pretty sold on Lex!Patty>>>>>The other two Pattys, enough where there should be a tier gap.

It affects Nanna even less.

whut? It affects Nanna the most. She would much rather have Prayer than Charge.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Germany

[_____]

whut? It affects Nanna the most. She would much rather have Prayer than Charge.

I was talking about the stats.

[Dat Nick]

I know you were, but the skills are the biggest issue with the pairing, really. Then again, I just really hate Charge.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Both Femina and Tristan are pretty horrible, but at least Femina flies around, and she gets staves post-promotion. Can use Lances too. Her Continue is more likely to activate than his Critical, though I guess Continue from her will probably leave the enemy still alive. I guess he'll have better durability from his better HP/Def than she will from Avoid. Neither of these characters are good in combat, but I'd rather have Femina ineffectively attack while flying and then get staves upon promotion than Tristan's being ineffective in general.

Femina also has to bypass some staff-users to get up to above Tristan, she gets C Staves upon promotion anyways and has flying, better durability, poor combat vs. essentially no combat, plus she does stuff the first half of the generation, so I'm thinking sure. Oh, and Hannibal, but nobody cares I take it?

[Dat Nick]

You could argue the case is that Tristan needs to move down rather than Femina up; in fact, that's how I see it. I stand by my earlier assessment of Hannibal>Tristan.

[Blademaster!]

Fee doubles everything she wants already and can use two different types of Hero weapons, why do you insist she wants more speed? Noish actually helps her str a lot (2 points, 4 per double, 8 with Hero). The +5 str convo comes in Ch10, which leaves 6-9 with a bad str'd Fee. For "better everything else", here's more detail to it (base and growth):

+ is Levin wins, - is Noish wins

hp: 0, +5%

str: -1, -15%

mag: +1, +5%

skl: +1, +5%

spd: +1, +35%

def: -1, -10%

res: 0, +3%

luk: 0, 0%

Winning "everything else" isn't worth much when your leads consist of 0-1 points in bases and 3-5% in growths.

Levin!Fee has a 13% greater magic growth. Not 5%. The difference between a 25% growth and a 12% growth is much greater than the difference between a 50% growth and a 40% growth as the 25% growth is twice as likely to happen compared to the 12% growth. That's why Levin!Fee has 5 points more magic at level 30 than Noish!Fee, and why no one cares about the 10% str and HP difference between Fin!Delmud and Beowolf!Delmud. Fee wants more speed because it helps with her avoid since she isn't affected by terrain, and she starts with continue when Levin is her father. Speed also affects duel in Noish!Fee's case, and since she already has poor HP she needs speed for it to activate. She also has critical, so her having 5 points lower str till chp 10 isn't the end of the world. Also, Wouldn't Fin rather have the hero Lance? Fee can use it for chp 6 and 7 should Fin be a father, but Fin needs it more (And again, hero weapons can't activate with continue).

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

You could argue the case is that Tristan needs to move down rather than Femina up; in fact, that's how I see it. I stand by my earlier assessment of Hannibal>Tristan.

Sure, go ahead and move Tristan down. I do think Femina is better than at least Corple[anybody not Claude], though, as all he's got over her is B Staves rather than Femina's C Staves. Corple [Claude] has better staves while Sharlow can use Berserk once and even just might get promoted, so it's tougher, though I think I'd still go with Femina over them. Hannibal vs. Femina, he definitely wins durability. Offense, he has better Strength and weapon selection (Though the latter is only letting him additionally use Killer Bow and Hero Axe/Bow as far as worthwhile weapons are concerned, and the axe and one if not both of those bows are pretty much guaranteed to have someone else wanting them.), so he probably wins, though Femina has much better Continue activation chances. Femina's advantages include massive mobility win, massive availability win, and C staves post-promotion. I side with Femina here. Hannibal vs. healbots...I dunno, what do others think? Edited September 28, 2009 by Destiny Puck

[Blademaster!]

You could argue the case is that Tristan needs to move down rather than Femina up; in fact, that's how I see it. I stand by my earlier assessment of Hannibal>Tristan.

Sure, go ahead and move Tristan down. I do think Femina is better than at least Corple[anybody not Claude], though, as all he's got over her is B Staves rather than Femina's C Staves. Corple [Claude] has better staves while Sharlow can use Berserk once and even just might get promoted, so it's tougher, though I think I'd still go with Femina over them. Hannibal vs. Femina, he definitely wins durability. Offense, he has better Strength and weapon selection (Though the latter is only letting him additionally use Killer Bow and Hero Axe/Bow as far as worthwhile weapons are concerned, and the axe and one if not both of those bows are pretty much guaranteed to have someone else wanting them.), so he probably wins, though Femina has much better Continue activation chances. Femina's advantages include massive mobility win, massive availability win, and C staves post-promotion. I side with Femina here. Hannibal vs. healbots...I dunno, what do others think?

Corple is always A ranked with staves. Sylvia has minor Blagi Blood and priests have a base staff level of B.