FE4 Gen 2 list

[Salad Utensil]

Prayer is still near useless. Superior 2 range/stave usage is very superior to lol! prayer and lol! +5 speed convo if neither turns you into a veritable goddess of destruction. With the enhanced mag Azel! Nanna would immediately rise like every other good FE valkyrie since healing on a horse is awesome. She also would be able to sit on the front lines if we gave her the earth sword. Delmud barely loses durability/offense for having azel instead of fin for a father and instead gains the decent ranged offense he always wanted. If anything Azel! Delmud might be higher than fin! delmud on the list.

Prayer is useful for Nanna to use in the arena though she has access to staves too for EXP. But C staves limit her to using only relive and return staves.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Brighton

[Narga_Rocks]

About the magic swords, at one range they just use str and attack def, right?

[Dat Nick]

Think so, but don't quote me on that.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Prayer is still near useless. Superior 2 range/stave usage is very superior to lol! prayer and lol! +5 speed convo if neither turns you into a veritable goddess of destruction. With the enhanced mag Azel! Nanna would immediately rise like every other good FE valkyrie since healing on a horse is awesome. She also would be able to sit on the front lines if we gave her the earth sword. Delmud barely loses durability/offense for having azel instead of fin for a father and instead gains the decent ranged offense he always wanted. If anything Azel! Delmud might be higher than fin! delmud on the list.

Prayer is useful for Nanna to use in the arena though she has access to staves too. But C staves limit her to using only relive and return staves.

Ahem. Prayer is useless outside of the arena. I know about the stupid arena trick I just can't find it in me to care. I find the higher mag much more useful. Especially cause she is only gonna have C rank staves max. That means she can heal for a good amount with a relive staff since the formula is [10 + mag] * 2. She shouldn't have any problems healing most units back to full health with her higher mag except if they have some ridiculous hp stat like faval and took like 70 damage. And since she is on a horse she won't be needing reblow as much since she can keep up with the main army.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

About the magic swords, at one range they just use str and attack def, right?

Yes. At range, they use the spells and the WT of the respective spell applies to their AS.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Hey where can I find the enemy stats for this game? And some maps to with enemy placement/reinforcements if those exist? Thanks, in advance. And if they do exist could you edit the links into the first post right under the read the rules link.

Edit: Oh I figured you'd have one of those tier list faq links... Hah oh well.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[BBM]

Actually, Azel can pass down A swords as well to Delmud. Even if the father can't use the sword, if the son can, it gets passed down. On my first playthrough, I had an unpromoted Beowulf give a Silver Blade to Delmud. Unless Beo only passed down the Silver Blade because he could have used it in the future.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Thank's for posting the enemy stats BB.

Holy shit! I forgot how bad the enemy AS was in this game.

Anyway I think Lex! Delmud and Lex! Nanna needs to be tier'd.

Even if it's resource intensive due to lack of pursuit it's still worthwhile if the resources are dropped since both characters get elite, vastly superior durability, and much earlier promotion. Horses offset the resource loss IMO since neither lakche or shaska are gonna gain horses with lex as the father.

Since lex can't pass down swords I am gonna assume he passes down the pursuit ring to delmud and that lachesis passes down the hero's sword to nanna or nanna buy's it off someone else. Other unit's may want the damn things and make good use of them but both Lex!delmud and Lex!nanna have far better move so they make better use of them if given the same resources so arguably they should be allowed to get them.

Nanna is actually quite the tank in this pairing since she starts with 7 defense instead of 5 like every other pairing and she has a 60% defense growth. Upon promotion she gains +6 strength, +2 mag, +3 skl/spd, +6 def, and +2 res. She should be able to reach her 24 defense cap as a pallie before level 30.

BTW she might even be beating lex!delmud to promotion thanks to staves + elite despite coming a chapter later. For the record live gives her 30 exp, relive gives 40 exp, and return gives 70 exp with elite. She also has a 70% strength growth with lex as the father. Promotion gives her an extra +6 strength so she should be able to make damn good use of a hero's sword if it's given to her. The +2 mag from promotion knocks the healing she does with relive up to 30 hp... It's not great but she is getting to promotion much quicker than she normally would so it is helpful. I would say it's satisfactory since she is after all on a horse.

Elite on delmud is awesome. It sucks that delmud will only start with an iron sword but he does have an A in swords so come chapter 7 he can buy a blade off celice or either of aira's kids. Any of the blades will do although silver is of course gonna be the one he wants most so he can one round for nearly all of second gen. He prob can still one round for a good period of time with either of the other blades due to his ridiculous leveling speed and high strength growth.

Despite delmud lacking any other combat skills besides the pursuit ring and ambush he does have a base strength of 12 and a 80% strength growth with lex as the father. Durability wise lex! D has 10 defense which is better than fin, beo, and azel's son has defense wise. He also has a 60% defense growth and a 130% hp growth. His lower speed growth of 30 I believe has no negative effect on his ability to double in comparison with the other kids as well since he does have elite on top of it and he gains +6 speed after promotion.

Edit: just moved a portion of the paragraph to the top to make better sense.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dat Nick]

Elite REALLY does a poor job at compensating for no Pursuit. The competition for the pursuit ring is fierce enough, let's not make it any crazier than it already is.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Elite REALLY does a poor job at compensating for no Pursuit. The competition for the pursuit ring is fierce enough, let's not make it any crazier than it already is.

OK disregard the rest of the cast. Think Delmud one rounding near every enemy on the map with pursuit/hero sword/elite/high defense. THIS IS ABOUT HOW DAMN GOOD YOU ARE WITH THE RESOURCES!

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dat Nick]

OK disregard the rest of the cast. Think Delmud one rounding near every enemy on the map with pursuit/hero sword/elite/high defense. THIS IS ABOUT HOW DAMN GOOD YOU ARE WITH THE RESOURCES!

Most non-pursuit characters do the same, shoot up several tiers with the pursuit ring. Hi Amid.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Just because LexDelmud is in play doesn't mean that he suddenly has no competition for the pursuit ring. Nanna's another character that wants it.

Yes, it's about how damn good you are with the resources. About 40% of the cast takes a huge jump upwards in performance with the pursuit ring, some bigger than Delmud [Going from low tier to high tier is much better than going from high tier to. above Oifaye]. Delmud has absolutely no monopoly on it.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

OK disregard the rest of the cast. Think Delmud one rounding near every enemy on the map with pursuit/hero sword/elite/high defense. THIS IS ABOUT HOW DAMN GOOD YOU ARE WITH THE RESOURCES!

Most non-pursuit characters do the same, shoot up several tiers with the pursuit ring. Hi Amid.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Just because LexDelmud is in play doesn't mean that he suddenly has no competition for the pursuit ring. Nanna's another character that wants it.

Yes, it's about how damn good you are with the resources. About 40% of the cast takes a huge jump upwards in performance with the pursuit ring, some bigger than Delmud [Going from low tier to high tier is much better than going from high tier to. above Oifaye]. Delmud has absolutely no monopoly on it.

But if delmud is kicking that much ass with the resources and nanna is kicking tons of ass as well then is that not better than giving it to some puke who is never gonna beat them even with more resources. I only mentioned 3 resources in my entire post. The silver blade, hero's sword, and the pursuit ring. Alot of those low tiers need other rings like the move and the power ring to even compete with lex!delmud given the same resources he already has. And even then they still won't have elite, ambush, his uber defense, or re-move.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dat Nick]

Let's go along with your logic for a second. Suppose for whatever reason that Delmud always extends the middle finger to his sister and gets the Pursuit Ring. If I let your argument pass, then I could argue Amid way up and give him a free pass on the Pursuit Ring. Then Tristan, Linda, even Patty would skyrocket on the list. And yet it is physically impossible for all of these characters to get the ring at the same time, so it makes these characters look much, much better than they actually are assuming they do not get the pursuit ring of which there is only one to go around.

Either everybody who wants the pursuit ring goes up, or nobody who wants the pursuit ring goes up. I'm favoring the latter.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Let's go along with your logic for a second. Suppose for whatever reason that Delmud always extends the middle finger to his sister and gets the Pursuit Ring. If I let your argument pass, then I could argue Amid way up and give him a free pass on the Pursuit Ring. Then Tristan, Linda, even Patty would skyrocket on the list. And yet it is physically impossible for all of these characters to get the ring at the same time, so it makes these characters look much, much better than they actually are assuming they do not get the pursuit ring of which there is only one to go around.

Either everybody who wants the pursuit ring goes up, or nobody who wants the pursuit ring goes up. I'm favoring the latter.

You can't. Why? Lex!Delmud is the best person for that damn ring. Lex already wants that ring first gen. Lex!Delmud of all the units who wants that ring is most likely to get his hands on it.

Lex!Delmud has uber strength, great growths, elite, and high move. His two biggest flaws are lack of pursuit and no inherited weapons. No inherited weapons is made up by delmud being good at the arena so he can easily buy anything he needs in chapter 7 so it all comes down to pursuit. His sole flaw is pursuit and perhaps lack of a holy weapon. No one else has all of his gains without any significant loss. Even arthur who is the highest tier'd ON THIS LIST lacks elite, high move, and pursuit. So if we gave levin!Arthur the pursuit ring lex!delmud would still be edging out a victory on him in two other area's if we did a direct comparison with both having the pursuit ring.

Edit: Arthur is of course the better unit thanks to the bosses in this game making lolsety hacks. Also Lex!Delmud's 2 range blows. So yea his biggest flaw is lack of pursuit and good 2 range.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Being a good combat unit without a resource like the Pursuit Ring >>> Being a good combat unit at the cost of a resource like Pursuit ring.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Being a good combat unit without a resource like the Pursuit Ring >>> Being a good combat unit at the cost of a resource like Pursuit ring.

Being the best non holy weapon unit in the game with the pursuit ring generally gives you much higher claim for such a resource. Like how mia is assumed to get an ike support in rd as well as adept and cancel. Despite everyone wanting the skills and support bonus she is the one who makes the best use of them so it is assumed if she is in use she gets the resources.

Alright. Fine penalize him for needing the ring. He should still be tier'd as well as his sister on the list since he has quite a few other wins going for him.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dat Nick]

You're overrating how much better Beo actually becomes with Elite. He goes from rapeface to rapeface and that's really it, and at LEAST Nanna is guaranteed to get the shaft.

The net benefit needs to be considered. You gain more from making a bad unit good than making a good unit slightly better.

Alright. Fine penalize him for needing the ring. He should still be tier'd as well as his sister on the list since he has quite a few other wins going for him.

Without the ring he'd be ranked pretty low, as would Nanna. It's not a worthwhile pairing, so I see no reason to tier it.

Like how mia is assumed to get an ike support in rd as well as adept and cancel.

Said assumptions are highly controversial so they aren't good examples. Furthermore, people practically NEED Pursuit in this game whereas Adept and Cancel are just cool addons.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Being a good combat unit without a resource like the Pursuit Ring >>> Being a good combat unit at the cost of a resource like Pursuit ring.

Being the best non holy weapon unit in the game with the pursuit ring generally gives you much higher claim for such a resource. Like how mia is assumed to get an ike support in rd as well as adept and cancel. Despite everyone wanting the skills and support bonus she is the one who makes the best use of them so it is assumed if she is in use she gets the resources.

I'm guessing that Mia's getting that ridiculous favoritism because it hardly benefits the others. That's not the case in this one though, everyone lacking Pursuit greatly benefits from the Pursuit ring and Lex!Delmud's output does not make up for him crippling others.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

You're overrating how much better Beo actually becomes with Elite. He goes from rapeface to rapeface and that's really it, and at LEAST Nanna is guaranteed to get the shaft.

The net benefit needs to be considered. You gain more from making a bad unit good than making a good unit slightly better.

Elite does wonders for nanna. She reaches promotion at the speed of light thanks to staves. Like I said she get's 30 experience from live, 40 from relive, and 70 from return. It improves her strength much quicker and it allows her to get out of her period of being meh combat wise rather quickly and once she promote's like I said the hero sword is just begging to be held in her hand. Going into chapter 9 at level 20 promoted would give her 24 strength and 24 defense. That's better than I thought it would be honestly... She's already capped both stats. Even without pursuit she could be pulling orko/2rko on a consistent basis with just a hero's sword.

The crit bonus after 50 kills would make up the lack of pursuit.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Lancelot

[Dat Nick]

Elite does wonders for nanna. She reaches promotion at the speed of light thanks to staves. Like I said she get's 30 experience from live, 40 from relive, and 70 from return. It improves her strength much quicker and it allows her to get out of her period of being meh combat wise rather quickly and once she promote's like I said the hero sword is just begging to be held in her hand. Going into chapter 9 at level 20 promoted would give her 24 strength and 24 defense. That's better than I thought it would be honestly... She's already capped both stats. Even without pursuit she could be pulling orko/2rko on a consistent basis with just a hero's sword.

Except she doesn't have the pursuit ring and hero swords are still useful on other characters for blicking.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The crit bonus after 50 kills would make up the lack of pursuit.

It wouldn't. Pursuit's much better.

[Renall]

You can't. Why? Lex!Delmud is the best person for that damn ring. Lex already wants that ring first gen. Lex!Delmud of all the units who wants that ring is most likely to get his hands on it.

But sometimes he doesn't. And when he doesn't, he sucks.

Lex!Delmud has uber strength, great growths, elite, and high move. His two biggest flaws are lack of pursuit and no inherited weapons. No inherited weapons is made up by delmud being good at the arena so he can easily buy anything he needs in chapter 7 so it all comes down to pursuit. His sole flaw is pursuit and perhaps lack of a holy weapon. No one else has all of his gains without any significant loss.

Is he that good at the arena? Really? I don't see how he's that "great". Sure, he can probably clear it on his durability, unless he misses too much. No inherited weapons is pretty bad. He winds up stuck with Iron in ch6, and that ain't such a great thing (it's one reason I vastly prefer Beowulf over Fin, the other being easiness of pairing).

Even arthur who is the highest tier'd ON THIS LIST lacks elite, high move, and pursuit. So if we gave levin!Arthur the pursuit ring lex!delmud would still be edging out a victory on him in two other area's if we did a direct comparison with both having the pursuit ring.

He would only really want Elite before promotion, due to his caps. His move problem is solved on promotion, so at least he has a light at the end of the tunnel. And he has Holsety, so that's a 30 Mt 5 Wt 90 Hit 1~2 range weapon that gives him 20 SPD which increases his Continue odds considerably. And Wrath besides, so if he gets into Wrath range he one-shots nearly anything for the first half of the 2nd Gen and doesn't need to double.

What I'm saying is, Arthur [Levin] has things that make up for not getting the Pursuit Ring. He wants it, but he doesn't need it, so it isn't a big deal for him. Delmud [Lex] needs it, as he isn't very good offensively without it.

The crit bonus after 50 kills would make up the lack of pursuit.

I can't wait for the crit bonus backlash in this thread just like the support backlash in the GBA tier lists when people realize how utterly ridiculous it is to even get to 50 kills with a weapon before Gen 2 starts if you're playing efficiently.

[Salad Utensil]

Is he that good at the arena? Really? I don't see how he's that "great". Sure, he can probably clear it on his durability, unless he misses too much. No inherited weapons is pretty bad. He winds up stuck with Iron in ch6, and that ain't such a great thing (it's one reason I vastly prefer Beowulf over Fin, the other being easiness of pairing).

To be fair, inherentence isn't really an issue for him unlike Lester. You have Skasha (not sure how to spell his name), Lachke, and Celice to carry a sword for him. A steel blade, silver sword, or even a magic sword or slim sword or maybe *gasp* a hero sword if no one really needs it, isn't too much to ask is it? Cost isn't an issue too if you plan to have him inherit a ring like the second return ring that isn't going to Patty.

[Salad Utensil]

I can't wait for the crit bonus backlash in this thread just like the support backlash in the GBA tier lists when people realize how utterly ridiculous it is to even get to 50 kills with a weapon before Gen 2 starts if you're playing efficiently.

It really isn't that hard if you only use the best weapons repeatedly. The Silver sword comes at chapter 1, the hero sword is very useful to pass around, El wind is the second best tome in generation 1 and can be spammed by Azel (his mount helps create more kills) and Levn if he doesn't want to waste Holsety.

Sigurd's silver sword, the Aira's hero sword, El wind, Heros axe, all have a good chance of reaching 50 kills by end of first generation even when playing for the tactics rank. Or at least close like at 40ish kills. Heck I've easily gotton the light sword and the hero lance into the 30ish kill range before too and if inherited by Fee, she can rapidly rack up the necessary kills to hit 50. If you inherent El wind with Arthur, he can just use that instead of Holsety to finish off things, it is still pretty useful in chapter 6 (if he actually meets an enemy >_>) and chapter 7

[Renall]

I use the best weapons almost exclusively (Hero weapons, Sigurd's Silver Sword, Elwind/Holsety). I have never, ever, in any of my games reached 50 kills with any of them before. I know PEMN but I mean, there aren't that many enemies in the game if you don't let them reinforce (which is inefficient). There are only so many weapons you can possibly get up to 50 kills, and even if you could do so by manipulating killshots without wasting efficiency, how many weapons can you get there before Gen 2? Two of them?

I could see accepting the Hero Sword as hitting 50. It seems decently likely if you manipulate it. Otherwise though, I mean really? It seems highly improbable.