SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[The DanMan]

Counter Surge is pretty broken too, but Corrin is not THAT good outside of it so he can pass. I would want to balance some equity amongst counters though, why are there counters like completely superior to each other?

Why are some moves completely superior to other moves on different characters?

Balancing, in a nutshell.

[Jotari]

Why are some moves completely superior to other moves on different characters?

Balancing, in a nutshell.

Well when it comes to moves on characters they can have some strong moves to compensate for having other weaker moves. Comparing counters on the other hand is odd since they're such similar attacks. Even more so than Down Smashes etc. It might not be as egregious if Counters were actually hard to balance. It should really just be a factor of measuring active frames, lag, damage and knockback. Yet some Counters just excel in all areas for no discernable reason. Kind of like how Lucas' PSI Magnet is just plain superior to Ness

[Great Geargia Gateway]

She has counter because Counter was one of the abilities in Kid Icarus Uprising where all her Special Moves are derived from. Personally I think to make the Counters more varied Palutena's Counter should become a paralyzing counter using her shield. There's already a precedent for something like that in her Uprising boss battle.

That doesn't change how stupid the decision was compared to other specials she could have.

[Jotari]

That doesn't change how stupid the decision was compared to other specials she could have.

Counter being a relatively easy move to code and Palutena having twelve unique specials probably influenced the decision somewhat too.

[Tolvir]

I will definitely admit as someone who plays Corrin a lot, his counter is pretty broken. Plenty of times Counter Surge saved me from losing a match at last second from lucky timing, especially when doing it in the air. Ive defeated someone while I was on my last stock at 150% and they were at last stock 0% because I used Counter Surge while I was pretty high up in the air. Next Smash game I think should put a time limit to how many times you can use counters in a set amount of time to keep down counter spam.

[Zera]

I will definitely admit as someone who plays Corrin a lot, his counter is pretty broken. Plenty of times Counter Surge saved me from losing a match at last second from lucky timing, especially when doing it in the air. Ive defeated someone while I was on my last stock at 150% and they were at last stock 0% because I used Counter Surge while I was pretty high up in the air. Next Smash game I think should put a time limit to how many times you can use counters in a set amount of time to keep down counter spam.

Or just make it not dumb.

[Jotari]

Well turning into a dragon is something you'd expect to be powerful. I'd be fine if ti had a draw back like Shulk's Power Vision or if it simply had a lot more lag afterwards making it a risky move.

[euklyd]

Clearly instead of an upward launching counter like Corrin's, we should have one that's a strong spike. No more kills at 0% off a juggle attempt!

[BrightBow]

I like the idea of an upwards counter actually. Of course there is little difference between being sent flying upwards or sideways if you hit the blastline either way.

[Jotari]

Well quire a difference when most stages are wider than they are high. Plus it's very easy to artificially get yourself closer to the blast line by jumping, juggling, or getting juggled and much easier to control which direction you want to launch your foes since most other counter knock your opponent in the direction you're facing while Counter Surge will send them flying upwards regardless as to where they'd hit you. It'd take a walk off stage and some kind of counter that would always knock them left regardless of circumstance to have a horizontal equivalent of counter surge.

While were on the subject of counters, an idea for a potential counter to make them more varied would be a magic counter that will always strike the foe where they're standing, kind of like a sticky bomb. This would be effective because you couldn't miss the counter, which while rare, can still happen with everyone's counter (Counter Surge's range is another great factor it has btw. You can very easily counter multiple people at once when only one hits you) but more importantly it would allow you to effectively counter projectiles without reflecting them.

[Jedi]

ZeRo is beginning to make a full opinionated Tier List

His List so far

Sheik

Bayonetta

Zero Suit Samus

Rosalina

Cloud

Metaknight

Sonic

Ryu

Diddy Kong

Fox

Corrin

Mario

Pikachu

Villager

Ness

Edited March 11, 2016 by Jedi

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I agree with him and these characters. I'd even put Marth at the very bottom of the high tiers. Sonic still makes me confused tho. How can he be so high tier?

[Jedi]

I agree with him and these characters. I'd even put Marth at the very bottom of the high tiers. Sonic still makes me confused tho. How can he be so high tier?

His general mobility is reaaaaally good, like even with his awkward approach game, he still has the best speed in the game and some really solid combos. His throws aren't too shabby either despite all the nerfs he just is still really solid.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Bowser better be at least semi-high...so underrated.

[Knife]

Corrin is not that good. If anything, Ike is better.

[Ema Skye]

Totally called that Top 4 a month ago.

Also glad to see MK finally get the recognition he deserves.

[Zera]

Totally called that Top 4 a month ago.

Also glad to see MK finally get the recognition he deserves.

I want free KOs, but opponents always airdodge the second up-air after down-throw/dash attack. What do I do?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Zera

[Knife]

Get faster with the upair or wait out the airdodge and uair/up b

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Corrin is not that good. If anything, Ike is better.

Hardly, with that kind of neutral game. Both are pretty the same recovery wise. Other than that, Corrin seems to do a lot better in margins against other Fire emblem characters.

[Jedi]

ZeRo's list continues.

Footnotes

16 - Pit/Dark Pit

17 - Captain Falcon

18 - Lucario

19 - Toon Link

20 - Luigi

21 - DK

22 - ROB

23 - Peach

24 - Ike

25 - Greninja

26 - Wii Fit Trainer

27 - Yoshi

28 - Wario

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Still no Bowser? Pfft.

[Shin]

Wario in 28th? I finally play a high tier character! I'm such a sellout.

[Jedi]

Despite the patch, ZeRo continues the list (for the 1.1.4 set, he'll revise for 1.1.5 he said, but he wants to finish this one).

Footnotes.

29. Shulk
30. DOC
31. G&W
32. Marth
33. Lucina
34. Olimar
35. Mewtwo
36. Robin
37. Pac-Man
38. Kirby
39. Lucas
40. Dedede
41. Falco (Mostly due to lack of data)
42. Megaman
43. Mac
44. Bowser

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Well Bowser was finally listed, but dang he definitely got underrated.

[Jedi]

I mean ZeRo is the guy who mained Bowser in his early dominance days, he'd probably be one of the people who knows his general placement.