FE6 Localization Patch v1.2.1 - Full localization with new features, including Support Conversation reader

[MP2E]

I think there are some Japanese patches which do a similar thing, and which also rearrange/adjust the SRAM to take advantage of different ways of storing items/skills/stats. (in this case, the expansion--I think the patch I'm think of is actually primed with pointers prepared to take advantage of the new space, like in Xenesis's expansion patch for one of the Advance Wars games.

Ooh that would be great, actually :) I'm sure I could learn a few things from it at the very least. If it's better than my base and isn't too invasive, I may just use that instead.

(Provided you can find it, no worries if not)

I figure you already are working on your own stuff though, so there's not much they could do to help you other than be a curiosity piece. I wouldn't even know where I've saved them to either :/ But it's super nice just to read some more knowledge on this stuff from you, so yeah, I got mad respect for you :)

Thanks! I appreciate it, motivation++ :)

I'm not too far along just yet, I have a lot of information related to fe4 and I've hacked out a few rough utilities but I want to refine the text dumper/injector quite a bit before any actual ROM hacking occurs. This means it's the perfect time for suggestions, though!

(Sorry for the derail, further discussion of FE4/FE5 should probably go in the Thracia translation thread.)

[Celice]

I've lumped all the stuff I've ever come across into one large, running archive, and I couldn't even remember what moonrunes were in the archives I'm thinking of :< There's a good chance there's some of these patches still up on the latest uploader, so checking it out might be more helpful than anything I could blindly scrounge up.

http://ux.getuploader.com/FE4/

[Flavor]

Hello, I am having some trouble getting this patched to a flash cart. The game should be very small but when the patch is attached it bumps the size to over 128mb's. Was wondring if there was a reason for this? thanks!

Hey guys, I was trying to help thegreathare figure out why he was having this problem. I was helping him try to get this on a GBA cart when we came across this problem.

I don't know a lot about your translation effort, but I do know a bit about ROM hacking. I worked on a translation hack of my own for the Neo Geo Pocket Color game SNK Vs. Capcom Cardfighters Clash 2.

Here's what I've found from looking at your patch and the ROMs associated with it.

The original ROM is 64mbit.

The patch (presumably) needs some more space, so it extends the ROM. GBA ROMs (as with most cartridge-based ROMs) come in powers of two, so sizes are like 32mbit, 64mbit, 128mbit, etc. To extend a 64mbit ROM, the next step would be 128mbit, which would give the translation patch a whopping 64mbit of extra space. I can not immagine that the translation would need anywhere near this much data, but if you want to extend it by 1byte, you'll get the wole 64mbit (if you're sticking to the powers of 2).

Now, what actually happens is that this FE6 patch puts it just over 128mbit. This is quite odd, really.

In fact, if you examine the ROM, in a hex editor, it looks something like this:

0 - 64mbit: the game data

64mbit - 128mbit: almost entirely blank except for a tiny bit of data about halfway through this area

128mbit + : a bunch of stuff that looks maybe like a pointer table and some tags that look like...

"20111222.1FREEz²Rh

ñì/þÑp/f20111222.1FREE”

To me, it seems that something went wrong. I'm guessing that it's the tool used to do the hacking that is producing this result. There is TONS of free space in the 64-128mbit area, but, for some reason, it decides to use the 128mbit+ area. What's also odd is that it doesn't then use the powers of 2 "rule" to bump it to 256mbit. It just tacks on to the end.

So, I'd like to know more about the tools used here. Maybe we can track this issue down. Maybe there is a way to tell it to use all the free space in the 64-128mbit area.

[Flavor]

I just learned a bit more about the process here, and I have a theory. Here's my understanding of the process.

1) Start with the Japanese ROM. (this is 64mbit)

2) Apply the v2.1 translation patch from http://www.romhacking.net/translations/854/ (after patching, the ROM is 128mbit)

3) Use FEeditor to create the "FE6 Translation Patch Redux" (which adds to the 128mbit ROM making it more than 128mbit)

[Celice]

I just learned a bit more about the process here, and I have a theory. Here's my understanding of the process.

1) Start with the Japanese ROM. (this is 64mbit)

2) Apply the v2.1 translation patch from http://www.romhacking.net/translations/854/ (after patching, the ROM is 128mbit)

3) Use FEeditor to create the "FE6 Translation Patch Redux" (which adds to the 128mbit ROM making it more than 128mbit)

That's pretty much the issue in step-3. Last I understood, the editor tries to rearrange internal data, use data ranges it believed were unused, and also expanded the ROM, but one of these or more processes just fucks shit up. There was supposed to be a remedy patch made a while ago by another user, but who knows if that actually fixed any issues (the biggest ones for the patch were fixing hardcrashes when viewing certain menu texts).

[Flavor]

That's pretty much the issue in step-3. Last I understood, the editor tries to rearrange internal data, use data ranges it believed were unused, and also expanded the ROM, but one of these or more processes just fucks shit up. There was supposed to be a remedy patch made a while ago by another user, but who knows if that actually fixed any issues (the biggest ones for the patch were fixing hardcrashes when viewing certain menu texts).

Reading this made me wonder if you could add a step 2.5.

2.5) Use a ROM resize tool (something like http://www.gameboy-advance.net/rom_tools/reduce_gba_rom_size.htm) to cut the ROM down.

Then, if it works as hoped, the ROM would be under 128mbit (after applying v2.1 patch and cutting with "Remove the non-required space tool"), so when FEeditor adds its junk it can still stay under 128mbit.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Flavor

[gringe]

That's pretty much the issue in step-3. Last I understood, the editor tries to rearrange internal data, use data ranges it believed were unused, and also expanded the ROM, but one of these or more processes just fucks shit up. There was supposed to be a remedy patch made a while ago by another user, but who knows if that actually fixed any issues (the biggest ones for the patch were fixing hardcrashes when viewing certain menu texts).

Well, I and others have played through the whole game from start to finish, so I can say that other than the expanding ROM size, FEditor hasn't caused any real issues after the patch.

Reading this made me wonder if you could add a step 2.5.

2.5) Use a ROM resize tool (something like http://www.gameboy-a...ba_rom_size.htm) to cut the ROM down.

Then, if it works as hoped, the ROM would be under 128mbit (after applying v2.1 patch and cutting with "Remove the non-required space tool"), so when FEeditor adds its junk it can still stay under 128mbit.

Honestly there's quite a bit that still needs to be done. Getting the ROM to a reasonable size is definitely one of the last things we'll be doing if we can do it at all.

[Flavor]

Reading this made me wonder if you could add a step 2.5.

2.5) Use a ROM resize tool (something like http://www.gameboy-a...ba_rom_size.htm) to cut the ROM down.

Then, if it works as hoped, the ROM would be under 128mbit (after applying v2.1 patch and cutting with "Remove the non-required space tool"), so when FEeditor adds its junk it can still stay under 128mbit.

Honestly there's quite a bit that still needs to be done. Getting the ROM to a reasonable size is definitely one of the last things we'll be doing if we can do it at all.

I think that step 2.5 would be very easy to test. In fact, as I was writing this, I just downloaded and tried it, and it only took me a couple minutes.

In fact, the file goes from 16,777,216 bytes to 11,542,528 bytes.

I'm willing to bet that if you used this as input to FEeditor, it would help.

Unfortunately, I can't test my "step 3," because I don't have the rest of the input to FEeditor. Could you provide this to me so that I could try it out?

[Celice]

Well, I and others have played through the whole game from start to finish, so I can say that other than the expanding ROM size, FEditor hasn't caused any real issues after the patch.

Honestly there's quite a bit that still needs to be done. Getting the ROM to a reasonable size is definitely one of the last things we'll be doing if we can do it at all.

Have many of the testers used various emulators? The last main update to VisualBoy Advance was 2004, and this is coming close to being the ZSNES of the GBA emulation scene. no$gba strays to be accurate, comparably, as it is intended to be a developer tool, not a way to play ROMs. I doubt it's near the level of higan however.

That said, several FE hacks over the few years, from English-speaking communities, fail to run on flashcarts due to emulator loopholes that are exploited by tools used on such forums, loopholes that are not possible on actual hardware.

Not to mention it wasn't long ago that anyone using FEditor for altering text in FE6 would find some predictable crashing regarding the convoy and a few other locations.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Celice

[Kikirini]

In regards to the flashcart part of that post, I run this game on a flashcart and it works beautifully.

[Celice]

In regards to the flashcart part of that post, I run this game on a flashcart and it works beautifully.

Good to hear. Let us know what flashcart you are using, too. Some flashcarts do not actually let the GBA ROM run natively from the hardware, but augment it or even fully emulate the hardware via the flashcart itself with an on-chip solution.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Celice

[Flavor]

In regards to the flashcart part of that post, I run this game on a flashcart and it works beautifully.

Nice. The guy I'm helping really wants it on a 128m flash cart, and I'm thinking he'd be a good tester.

Good to hear. Let us know what flashcart you are using, too. Some flashcarts do not actually let the GBA ROM run natively from the hardware, but augment it or even fully emulate the hardware via the flashcart itself with an on-chip solution.

I've never heard of such a thing. I can't immagine a flash cart manufacturer would (or could) do a custom chip to emulate GBA on the GBA.

[Celice]

I've never heard of such a thing. I can't immagine a flash cart manufacturer would (or could) do a custom chip to emulate GBA on the GBA.

Some of the DS flashcarts opt on this route (even on the systems that still have GBA compatibility), and is generally what's used on the 3DS front for the time being as most still operate in the DS mode.

Other cards, like SuperCard, introduced some issues with clean running with their savestate and other stuff support. Usually this manifested as lag, but some games also suffered hard crashes.

[Kikirini]

I can't speak for GBA flashcarts, but DSTwo on a DS/3DS with either the stock gba emulator or TempGBA emulator works beautifully with no issues. If people wanted to run it in slot 2, this translation works with the EZ Flash 3in1 expansion.

(I want to try some GBA flashcarts but most that I find are either backordered or are not produced anymore...)

[Nonevah]

I really like this translation. It's far better than the standard patch.

However, I wish you hadn't changed the names; the names are kinda classic. People are used to Dieck, Thany, etc, the names are settled in the conscious of the Fire Emblem community. Especially the change to Deke, Deke sounds a bit dorky, Dieck is awesome. Zealot's just a more impressive name than Jerrot. Maybe for the 1.0 release, there can be an option to set to the older names?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Nonevah

[bookofholsety]

dieck is a shitty name and humouring it is pretty indefensible

sure, the community's used to it, but the community's also used to such gems as "yuria", "burian" and "tinny"

deke is literally the same thing except it doesn't look like a penis joke

[Turtleman579]

I'm not a big stickler on the names or anything, but I did prefer Dieck. The way I look at it, Dieck was two syllables: Dee-ek, whereas Deke is one syllable: Deek. Dieck sounds better, imo. But of course, Brawl said Deke, and I almost always favor the most official name. "Almost" referring to Rutoga, which is Rutger with a stereotypical Japanese accent.

As much as I like the word "zealot", it doesn't sound at all like a name. It was a good way to render ゼロット, but I think Jerrot is an improvement.

Therein lies the problem with the naming thing; everyone wants something different. Gringe says Deek and Jerrot, Nonevah says Dieck and Zealot, I say Dieck and Jerrot, the wiki says Dieck and... Zelots?... I figure it's stupid to ever make a stink about the names because no one wants exactly the same thing as I do. So, translator's privilege.

[Haku]

I really like this translation. It's far better than the standard patch.

However, I wish you hadn't changed the names; the names are kinda classic. People are used to Dieck, Thany, etc, the names are settled in the conscious of the Fire Emblem community. Especially the change to Deke, Deke sounds a bit dorky, Dieck is awesome. Zealot's just a more impressive name than Jerrot. Maybe for the 1.0 release, there can be an option to set to the older names?

I'm not a big stickler on the names or anything, but I did prefer Dieck. The way I look at it, Dieck was two syllables: Dee-ek, whereas Deke is one syllable: Deek. Dieck sounds better, imo. But of course, Brawl said Deke, and I almost always favor the most official name. "Almost" referring to Rutoga, which is Rutger with a stereotypical Japanese accent.

As much as I like the word "zealot", it doesn't sound at all like a name. It was a good way to render ゼロット, but I think Jerrot is an improvement.

Therein lies the problem with the naming thing; everyone wants something different. Gringe says Deek and Jerrot, Nonevah says Dieck and Zealot, I say Dieck and Jerrot, the wiki says Dieck and... Zelots?... I figure it's stupid to ever make a stink about the names because no one wants exactly the same thing as I do. So, translator's privilege.

If you guys were really bothered about certain names, you could just alter them in your patched ROM with FEditor Adv. I don't consider the names a big deal though.

You did a great job btw Gringe with this translation, well done :D

Edited April 14, 2014 by Haku

[Belf]

So, translator's privilege.

I guess... If I had done what Gringe did though, I would have had my own version (my own name preferences) and public version(s) (unaltered names, majority supported names, etc.) rather than force everyone to use what I like or else they have to change it (which takes a LOT longer than you think).

[aquamarin]

Not sure how this one went unnoticed, but in Roy-Lilina A support conversation, there's no pause after Lilina says "And you're right... We'll be together forever."

[gringe]

I'm not a big stickler on the names or anything, but I did prefer Dieck. The way I look at it, Dieck was two syllables: Dee-ek, whereas Deke is one syllable: Deek.

The Japanese kana rendering disagrees with the former (ディーク diiku).

I guess... If I had done what Gringe did though, I would have had my own version (my own name preferences) and public version(s) (unaltered names, majority supported names, etc.) rather than force everyone to use what I like or else they have to change it (which takes a LOT longer than you think).

Names aren't a big deal. I'm curious which names it is you don't like, too, as most of the changes were simply common sense or to bring them in line with the official spellings.

I'm not doing the translation purely for the sake of the "majority." I feel a lot of resistance is just because of change in general, but if it's a change for the better, then people will get used to it.

Not sure how this one went unnoticed, but in Roy-Lilina A support conversation, there's no pause after Lilina says "And you're right... We'll be together forever."

Thanks! Duly noted.

[Turtleman579]

The kana rendering disagrees with Jerrot, but I'd say it's a better name. I know it wasn't Dee-ek originally, but that was how I pronounced Dieck. But yeah, most people just resist change I guess. I can't claim I'm different, really.

[gringe]

The kana rendering disagrees with Jerrot,

This is actually not true. Je isn't a natively occurring sound in Japanese and is often approximated as ze. The Japanese renderings of Los Angeles (ロサンゼルス) and jelly (ゼリー) are a couple examples, and there was a gas station called General (ゼネラル) by my old apartment.

[Siuloir]

The kana rendering disagrees with Jerrot, but I'd say it's a better name. I know it wasn't Dee-ek originally, but that was how I pronounced Dieck. But yeah, most people just resist change I guess. I can't claim I'm different, really.

No it doesn't, for reasons Gringe illustrated.

It's not just that most people resist change, it's that, to be brutally frank, a sizeable chunk of the community thinks they actually speak Japanese, and almost all of that number has zero translation experience.

[dondon151]

It's not just that most people resist change, it's that, to be brutally frank, a sizeable chunk of the community thinks they actually speak Japanese, and almost all of that number has zero translation experience.

translation experience is almost wholly irrelevant when it comes to making up names. this is ultimately a decision that comes down entirely on personal preference, and therefore credentials don't matter at all.