PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Vascela]

The problem with manakete is that it lacks a brave effect (which is the bread and butter offense for Apo).

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you're not playing Apo, Manakete will do fine. If you are, you may want something better.

With regards to your other pairs, Vaike!Kjelle is not great, if you can't get her Gaius (her favorite) she really wants Donnel. Vaike does not offer her anything significant he doesn't, and is missing the only thing her father can really give her.

Some people also have huge issues with Stahl!Severa's hair. If you're using her and it doesn't bother you, then carry on.

[amiabletemplar]

The problem with manakete is that it lacks a brave effect (which is the bread and butter offense for Apo).

Perhaps this is not the appropriate place for such speculation, but...if there WERE "bravestones" for Manaketes and Taguels, how would that affect their position in the hierarchy? That is, assuming these stones were essentially <blah>stone+ with the double-hit effect tacked on.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Hi, I was planning out a game since I haven't played in a while and I was wondering if someone could tell me if the following has any glaring errors?

SumiaXChrom

LissaXHenry

SullyXDonnel

MirielXGregor

MaribelleXLon'Qu

PanneXRicken

CordeliaXStahl

NowiXVaike

TharjaXGaius

OliviaXLibra

ChercheXFrederick

I was also considering:

MaribelleXVirion

CordeliaXLon'Qu

ChercheXStahl

Subbed for the appropriate pairs in the first set. Also would Yarne be better served with someone other than Ricken? Perhaps Kellam?

Any advice would be appreciated, I haven't played the game in a while so I'm a little unclear where anything might potentially just be a wasted 2nd generation unit.

[Dwlr]

Hi, I was planning out a game since I haven't played in a while and I was wondering if someone could tell me if the following has any glaring errors?

SumiaXChrom

LissaXHenry

SullyXDonnel

MirielXGregor

MaribelleXLon'Qu

PanneXRicken

CordeliaXStahl

NowiXVaike

TharjaXGaius

OliviaXLibra

ChercheXFrederick

I was also considering:

MaribelleXVirion

CordeliaXLon'Qu

ChercheXStahl

Subbed for the appropriate pairs in the first set. Also would Yarne be better served with someone other than Ricken? Perhaps Kellam?

Any advice would be appreciated, I haven't played the game in a while so I'm a little unclear where anything might potentially just be a wasted 2nd generation unit.

What's the goal for these pairings? Certain skills? Apoth? Campaign? You can't really 'waste' any of the second gen units, they just become less efficient than they could be.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dwlr

[Czar_Yoshi]

Perhaps this is not the appropriate place for such speculation, but...if there WERE "bravestones" for Manaketes and Taguels, how would that affect their position in the hierarchy? That is, assuming these stones were essentially <blah>stone+ with the double-hit effect tacked on.

Taguels would go up quite a lot, the lack of any ranged options whatsoever would still hurt them but their high Spd/Skl and good pairup bonuses would count for something. Manaketes would still be pretty lackluster on account of having limited distribution- they wouldn't line up well with the units who would typically want to use them (fast galegirls).

[wesman2232]

Myself, I just like keeping special classes in that class when ending their grinding. I like Panne ending as a Tanguel and Nowi ending as a Manakete. It might just be the rarity of the class that moves me to do that though. (Olivia as a end class Dancer with all the right skills like GF could potentially be awesome as they can kill an enemy then go and kill another, retreat, or even dance for another character. Possibly another character that has already used GF for their turn to give them a THIRD turn. Which in my opinion is pretty damn sweet)

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

ChercheXFrederick

Frederick!Gerome is awful though... : [

[Dwlr]

Frederick!Gerome is awful though... : [

Stick him in the back as support and he's fine.

[Shadow Mir]

Taguels would go up quite a lot, the lack of any ranged options whatsoever would still hurt them but their high Spd/Skl and good pairup bonuses would count for something. Manaketes would still be pretty lackluster on account of having limited distribution- they wouldn't line up well with the units who would typically want to use them (fast galegirls).

I dunno about that - I'd think Taguels would still be lackluster even if such stones existed.

[ckc22]

I dunno about that - I'd think Taguels would still be lackluster even if such stones existed.

Eh.... They'd be very very similar to Assassins, which I'd say are considered a good Apo class for their ability to boost DS.

Even if you assume taguels only get the same equip bonus as beast + it would be:

Taguel: 40/30/48/48 + pu of 8/0/7/8

Ass: 40/30/48/46 + pu of 7/0/7/9

Like... actually they'd be almost identical to assassins.

Edited January 16, 2016 by ckc22

[Dwlr]

It's still an awful pairing because Gerome doesn't inherit anything great from Fred to be useful as hard support. DG+ is awful and is no Hexthema and Aegis/Pavise/Luna aren't great in the back like Axefaire is. If his dad isn't Gregor, Vaike, Henry, or Stahl, might as well bench Gerome and deploy someone else like Cord or a Logbook unit since at that point Gerome is just a glorified stat booster for his wife.

Faire isn't worth the bench, you can use Strength +2 if you really need to instead of Faire. Benching is a big overreaction

[Vascela]

LB/Agg/AS+2/Str+2/Deliverer the dream right

[LiterallyAPegasus]

I guess my plan was to do the campaign and make a run at Apotheosis. That's kind of what I was looking for; is it worth juggling the other fathers to avoid FrederickXCherche?

[Westwood]

[originally I had this as it's own post, but I was told to post it here by Formerly Colm]

So I'm new to the Serene Forest forums (this is even my first post), but I'm not new to either Fire Emblem or Serene Forest. I joined to see if I could get some optimization help/suggestions considering I recently got all the awakening DLC (meaning I can grind exp/gold for this run).

I made a google doc showing my setup that I plan to use. I went through the hassle to make it neat incase anyone wants to use it for reference. Currently it only has the children on it, but I need help deciding whom they should marry. I will be adding all the first generation characters soon.

My Setup: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xHGYVeceWmhIqDlhsnJTcsYi5sJj2nlRdImJEA4By2Y/edit?usp=sharing

[ In case it wasn't apparent in the spreadsheet, it's a M!MU run with +Speed,-Luck. ]

Skillset suggestions?
Pairing suggestions?
Class suggestions?

General feedback?
---
Anything is appreciated.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Westwood

[Czar_Yoshi]

Stick him in the back as support and he's fine.

Assuming Apo... He has no Faires, so despite his +6 Str mod, he'll be seeing the same damage output as a +1 Str Gerome with one (outside of -Str Robin, no father in the game can get him below +2). He also has a severe lack of good finishing classes- General and Warrior have good Str, but provide no Spd, and Paladin gives good bonuses but has extremely low Atk (especially with no Faire) for a hard support. He also suffers from a lack of +Hit skills, which is a common Gerome problem but still a major one.

Outside of that, optimization matters a lot less. So while he is perfectly usable (5 Atk out of ~90? Doesn't seem like that big of a deal), he's still very close to the worst there is. And knowing the reason some people still recommend him really doesn't help matters...

How is benching a bad unit an overreaction?

Benching children in Apo: it sounds really bad, but actually shouldn't be all that uncommon. The thing with Apo is that there are only 20 deployment slots, so assuming you use all the kids, 3rd gen Morgan and Chrom's wife, you're using up 16 of those slots for combat pairs. Two are needed for Rallybots, so that leaves you with two slots left for staffbots/Olivia. That's fine if you only want Staffbots for healing, but any kind of stuff with Rescue and it won't usually cut it. So when you do have open slots that aren't being used for children, it's not like they aren't going to be put to very good use with something else.

Additionally, Apo's map structure has lots of small, spread-out clumps of enemies (usually in groups of 3 or 5). If you're fielding a full team with a male Robin, you've got 18 attacks per turn (assuming no Olivia and GF always activates- 6 single Galepairs and two doubles). With that much killing power, you're going to have pairs sitting idle, every turn, because there's nothing for them to kill (and you can't easily spread out and kill the whole map at once because you only have two Rallybots and need to stay together). Which pairs will you leave idle? Usually, it's going to be your worst ones. So, it doesn't matter if a pair is bad or not- all they have to do is be slightly weaker, and they'll find themselves with nothing to do. So having a suboptimal Gerome usually doesn't mean he does slightly worse killing stuff, it means he very rarely gets to fight at all, and when it's a question between taking a pair that's going to do nothing at all, or two staffbots who can more than pull their weight, the answer isn't very foggy.

My preferred team structure takes around 10 attacks per turn (plus Olivia to guard against RNG), 3-4 Rallybots, and the rest as Staffbots. It doesn't use all the children, it's not pretty, but I never have to have units sitting idle except at the end of waves. Dropping a single pair (in this case, Gerome and his wife- likely Donnel!Noire or maybe Nah) would give double the staffbots and still not even reduce your APT below a multiple of 5.

I guess my plan was to do the campaign and make a run at Apotheosis. That's kind of what I was looking for; is it worth juggling the other fathers to avoid FrederickXCherche?

If you haven't set the pairing in stone yet, it's absolutely worth it. Gerome's best father is Henry, he does OK with Vaike and Gregor, and also does OK with Stahl and Virion. Ricken can be nice too, but he plays a little strangely.

Skillset suggestions?

Pairing suggestions?

Class suggestions?

General feedback?

That's a looot of All+2. And a lot of Heroes. And not enough Aggressor.

The general skillset pattern to follow for Apo: galeboys use LB/GF/Agg/proc/Faire, hard supports (male) use LB/Agg/Faire/+Hit or All+2/+Hit, and galegirls use LB/GF/proc/proc or All+2/Faire. Lucina uses DSt+ instead of a Faire.

Procs are skills like Luna and Vengeance- random +Damage skills that activate based on your Skl. As a general rule, always use Vengeance by itself, or use Luna/Ignis first and then add Aether or Astra as a second (Luna/Agnis alone is OK too). All+2 use is situational, mainly for hitting Spd thresholds, and where you use it will depend on your other classes/pairings.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Czar_Yoshi

[LiterallyAPegasus]

In order to avoid the ChercheXFrederick pairing, would I be better off with something like ChercheXRicken or ChercheXVirion? Maybe Stahl?

So something like:

ChromXSumia

SullyXDonnel

LissaXHenry

MaribelleXLon'Qu

MirielXGregor

CordeliaXStahl

TharjaXGaius

NowiXVaike

PanneXRicken

ChercheXVirion

FeMUXYarne

What needs to be done differently with a Ricken!Gerome?

Edited January 17, 2016 by LiterallyAPegasus

[Czar_Yoshi]

Henry, Vaike, Gregor, Virion, Stahl, Ricken (I edited my post to add more).

[ckc22]

In order to avoid the ChercheXFrederick pairing, would I be better off with something like ChercheXRicken or ChercheXVirion? Maybe Stahl?

VIrion & stahl are both standard recs. Henry is as well. Ricken, Vaike, and Gregor are less common but may serve a purpose if you know what you're doing with them.

[Westwood]

That's a looot of All+2. And a lot of Heroes. And not enough Aggressor.

The general skillset pattern to follow for Apo: galeboys use LB/GF/Agg/proc/Faire, hard supports (male) use LB/Agg/Faire/+Hit or All+2/+Hit, and galegirls use LB/GF/proc/proc or All+2/Faire. Lucina uses DSt+ instead of a Faire.

Procs are skills like Luna and Vengeance- random +Damage skills that activate based on your Skl. As a general rule, always use Vengeance by itself, or use Luna/Ignis first and then add Aether or Astra as a second (Luna/Agnis alone is OK too). All+2 use is situational, mainly for hitting Spd thresholds, and where you use it will depend on your other classes/pairings.

Thanks for the suggestions Czar_Yoshi. I changed up the kids' sets accordingly. About the whole hero thing, I'm not sure what I should be using instead. Any ideas? I do like Nah as a Hero though.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Thanks for all the help! I'll keep my original pairings except using Virion over Fred as Gerome's father.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Morgan has too much Spd and can do whatever (try Wyvern Lord with All+2 and a +0 Spd support, or General with no All+2 and a BK support). Inigo makes a great Paladin or BK, Severa can change to Wyvern or stay as a Hero depending on Robin's class (Hero for Sniper/Warrior, Wyvern for BK/Berserker), Kjelle usually goes Paladin or Wyvern depending on her support, Nah can go as a General or stay as a Hero.

The main issues are that Heroes only have 6 Mov (Apo is a huge map, movement is king) and when you have more than ~3 of one class type, your team starts losing diversity and gets more boring to use.

As for other things, Cynthia could switch to Paladin without losing any functional Spd (she'd gain some Str), and Gerome should drop All+2 for Hex- his Hit is bad enough that Anathema alone won't cut it. Laurent should drop Vantage and Vengeance, since they don't do anything in the back and that's where he'll primarily want to stay. With respect to Robin, if you haven't set him in stone yet, you may want to change his asset/flaw- -Lck hurts your Atk; -Def is usually preferred. +Spd also won't make much of a difference when his wife is already so fast and he's staying in the back- consider +Str or +Skl instead to boost their regular offenses.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I was quoting the first post I found scrolling up that was still talking about that discussion. It wasn't my intent to agree or disagree with anyone, merely to weigh in.

[Minedreigon]

Hey team, I am planning on doing ANOTHER Apotheosis run! This time I'm going as optimal as possible. I have planned some parenting due to skills, but would like help deciding which children marry, and who fathers Morgan, + the parenting gaps.

So, welcome to this episode of...

CLASS AND MARRY THAT CHILD!

Firstly, is there any way I can make female Swordmaster avatar viable? (I'm going +Skill - Luck)

Secondly, here are my planned pairings.

Olivia!Lucina and Chrom!Inigo (Supporting Bow Knight)

Donnel!Kjelle (Paladin probably? May go Wyvern Lord depending on marriage options)

Stahl!Severa (Proc stacking Hero)

Vaike!Gerome (No idea)

Henry!Cynthia (DF, married to a hard supporting sage. Perhaps Owain?)

Libra!Owain (Said supporting Sage!)

Lon'qu!Brady (Standard Brady faire, the lead kind of Sage. But who to marry?)

Gauis!Noire (Sniper that could marry Brady perhaps / Leading Bow Knight if I have to marry her to Inigo )

???!Laurent

???!Yarne

???!Nah

(Remaining fathers: Gregor, Virion, Ricken, Kellam, Fred).

???!Morgan (Any child you see fit - what fills my gaps?)

Edited January 17, 2016 by Minedreigon

[Czar_Yoshi]

This time I'm going as optimal as possible.

Firstly, is there any way I can make female Swordmaster avatar viable? (I'm going +Skill - Luck)

Getting conflicting messages here. There's always ways to make stuff viable, but if you're going for as optimal as possible, that isn't a question you should ever be asking.

Typically, male Robin > female, -Def > -Lck, and Swordmaster is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of classes. Again, you can make what you have work, and it'll work just fine, but there's no way to call it as optimal as possible.