Loki Laufeyson Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Example of simplistic beauty: Super Mario Galaxy. A basic Mario plot but theres a bit more to be learned there. (Rosalina) Example of straightforward but dull: Sonic the Hedgehog. An example of simplistic but enjoyable: FE8 An example of painfully straightforward: FE11 A simplistic story can have nuance. Straightforward implies little to no nuance, thus making it inferior to the viewer/reader/player. People like little details. Examples of little details and nuance people love to see in games: Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door. That guy on the rooftops in Rogueport telling the story of the Four Heroes. (and the implications that they became things that Mario encountered! Hint: WHEEHEE FOOLS!) Radiant Dawn: Clues about the Branded that lead to the identity of Ashnard's true son. Xenoblade: The various family dynamics we see in several major characters. RJW, your problem is assuming FE was superior to just about every other game in the planet in the story aspect. It is ridiculous to claim so thus why people go "pfff lol" You claim this until it comes to Awakening, which you claim sucks. I agree, it does suck in story. But the rest of the series is not holy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 No, he said "Most games, especially Nintendo games." Hes putting emphasis on Nintendo, yes, but is also saying "Most games". Besides, Paper Mario says hi. (Super Paper Mario had some of the best writing and story in a Nintendo franchise.) Despite what a bad game Skyward Sword was, it had a solid story. Unfortunately, PM has taken a turn for the worse recently. Thinking about PM, one of the big sources of it's charm are the unique villain laughs. BUH! BUH! BUH HUH HUH! FE could do with some villains that can be recognized two console generations away by their laughs alone. Example of straightforward but dull: Sonic the Hedgehog. I wouldn't exactly call Sonic '06 dull, no. It's not that straightforward either. It is, however, very, very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, PM has taken a turn for the worse recently. Sticker Star is one game. It cant tarnish PM's good name alone. FE could do with some villains that can be recognized two console generations away by their laughs alone. Well Valtome is in the running. Cervantes is probably the best thing about Awakening's bad guys. He should have been recruitable. Edited April 16, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 ...I don't remember either of their laughs, to be honest. Cervantes' quote is timeless, but he doesn't have a signature evil laugh. TTYD is what, 10 years old now? It's held up to time quite well, but the series isn't getting any younger and even though SS can be shrugged off as an isolated blunder, it's still 5 years during which no new PMs were being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 You dont remember Valtome's "Uwee hee hee?" Really? D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) RJW, your problem is assuming FE was superior to just about every other game in the planet in the story aspect. It is ridiculous to claim so thus why people go "pfff lol" You claim this until it comes to Awakening, which you claim sucks. I agree, it does suck in story. But the rest of the series is not holy. I never said it superior to just about every other game. Nor do I think every FE story except Awakening is great. FE1 is too simplistic without any of the charm of FE11. FE2's big reveal is so bizarre and relies on so many things going exactly as they did to work out. FE6 is a shameless reimagination of FE3. And FE10 is too grand for its own good though not as grand as Awakening nor as bad as it. The rest of them get a lot of things just right, with a few missteps here and there but overall, as a series, Fire Emblem has great story and characters. For a series with 13 main games, 9 out 13 (in my opinion) is pretty damn good record. I can't honestly think of a relatively story heavy series with 10+ games with a track record that good. Maybe you can think of an obscure series that I haven't heard about I honestly don't get too play too many games and I'm definitely not aware of all the niche series out there. You dont remember Valtome's "Uwee hee hee?" Really? D: That's just a slightly different (and inferior) version of Legion/Roro's Weeheehee. :P Edited April 16, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 That's just a slightly different (and inferior) version of Legion/Roro's Weeheehee. :P When was that localized? Awakening's DLC, or earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 When was that localized? Awakening's DLC, or earlier? Nevermind, I mistook Excellus for Valtome. Legion's laugh came later. And it was localized to 'Uweehee'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Either way, Big Lantern Ghost has dibs on "Weeheehee" since 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 You dont remember Valtome's "Uwee hee hee?" Really? D: So Valtome is Final Fantasy's Orthros/Ultros now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 TTYD is what, 10 years old now? It's held up to time quite well, but the series isn't getting any younger and even though SS can be shrugged off as an isolated blunder, it's still 5 years during which no new PMs were being made. Yeah, let's forget that game ever happened. I've been wanting Nintendo and IS to do something memorable with the series, but I suppose there is only so much there can be done with it. In the case of a game being straightforward and great would be the first PM. I always found it more enjoyable over its sequels. However, on topic... Fire Emblem started off as straightforward, so you can't really blame shadow dragon from being a complete mess. Around the time FE4-5 came, the complexity was driven into FAR too many subplots. As for awakening, I can understand why it's story, gameplay, and overall cast are generally simple and easy to get. It's a game built on a nice mixture of fanservice and accessabilty. Remember, up until then, the series was heading downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) I'm fine with the accessibility/fanservice thing as long as the next game isn't like that. I liked Awakening for what it was (frankly: subpar), but I don't want another game like it. Also it baffles me that a game like Paper Mario TTYD can have such rich lore nuggets and secrets buried in its world and yet Awakening has absolutely NOTHING like that to explain how the world has changed in 2000 years, beyond the bare minimum. That's just criminal. I can forgive it this time, but... please... give us some nice lore in the next game... EDIT: v I know, I know... A man can dream, can't he... T~T Edited April 17, 2014 by BANRYU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFreshestSlice Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Realize that these are designed towards the casual who most likely won't even finish it. What you or I want is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 That feeling when you're given more backstory on ancient Macedon or ancient Grust (which only partially relevent to the main story) than you're given on present day Ylisse or Regna Ferox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 We don't even know where Virion lives. Not even the general area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFreshestSlice Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 That feeling when you're given more backstory on ancient Macedon or ancient Grust (which only partially relevent to the main story) than you're given on present day Ylisse or Regna Ferox. Trutru, they could have given the story more explanation, but then again, the story isn't worth knowing to begin with. This is Fanservice the Game: DLC on a Beach, doe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The capital of Plegia is called Plegia Castle. The capital of Valm has no name. The capital of Ferox isn't even mentioned. Way to go creating a believable world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The capital of Plegia is called Plegia Castle. The capital of Valm has no name. The capital of Ferox isn't even mentioned. Way to go creating a believable world. Valm Castle, Ferox Castle. They're both stated, Valm Castle is stated to be the captial in C19, and the name of the map for C20 is "Valm Castle" [Chapter name =/= Map Name]. Ferox Castle is shown a few times, and is implied to be connected to the Arena, and the name shows up for a few scenes on the lower screen [After C11/before C12 is a point, so is right after C10.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 We don't even know where Virion lives. Not even the general area. Dont. Remind. Me. *flips a table* Valm Castle, Ferox Castle. They're both stated, Valm Castle is stated to be the captial in C19, and the name of the map for C20 is "Valm Castle" [Chapter name =/= Map Name]. Ferox Castle is shown a few times, and is implied to be connected to the Arena, and the name shows up for a few scenes on the lower screen [After C11/before C12 is a point, so is right after C10.] Yeah....great....*monotone* way to world build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I honestly think the story was pushed aside for the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassyWolf Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 I honestly think the story was pushed aside for the characters. Because interesting characters can live in a wacum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) I honestly think the story was pushed aside for the characters. Because interesting characters can live in a wacum? I'm gonna assume you meant 'vacuum' because them living in my next guess of a wacom tablet doesn't make any sense I think that's the point he was making, though. They can't. That's why Awakening's entire game design sucks has problems. The story clearly WAS rushed (or 'pushed aside' if you prefer) so the writers would have time to make all the shipping possibilities AKA unnecessarily large quantity of support options. The supports are quite enjoyable on a rather shallow level, but they DO sort of exist in a vacuum separate from the much-less-interesting plot, since the trials and travesties of the story hardly seem to affect the very jovial, high school locker-room supports in the least. - Because the supports are more interesting than the story, the average player is going to want to grind for supports instead of advancing the plot. - Because the map allows it, this means plenty of time grinding supports and building unit strength while the plot patiently sits and waits on its ass twiddling its thumbs. - Because you can grind units to ridiculous strengths, this immediately destroys the difficulty factor completely and thus the balance of the main game. Even if there weren't a crapton of continuity errors and unexplained things it'd still be weak because the main story takes a backseat to the supports, and the free-roaming map encourages this distraction even further. Hell, the free-roaming map might not be a problem if the plot was actually interesting enough for us to want to continue with it. 'Actually though the map would still be a problem,' says the game design principle of dominant strategy I'm sorry if I'm all incoherent and shit I'm writing a bigasslong story over here aaagh my brain is melting help EDIT: Also I want to say I really do like this game but that doesn't mean I won't nitpick the shit out of it Edited April 18, 2014 by BANRYU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFreshestSlice Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I'd again like to point out this game wasn't made for you. It was made with the idea in mind to be a cash grab. Second, I don't know where this idea of Awakening pushing the story to the side came from, except for the fact that almost literally every FE game does this. Teenagers conquering the world may have been innovative at one time. But not so much now. Hundreds of these exist now. There are exceptions of course, as with anything, but for the most part, FE is a game series with horrible cliched stories with interesting characters and gameplay. Second, being able to grind is not a criticism I usually accept for any product because the game doesn't force you to do it. That's a choice you made on your own, knowing full well what you were doing. Blame yourself. That's a criticism of you. If you think a game should tell you not to do something because you lack the strength to not use the riekling boxes, or even worse, the dlc you purchased seperately, twice knowing what it does, I really don't know what to say. Third Even if there weren't a crapton of continuity errors and unexplained things it'd still be weak because the main story takes a backseat to the supports, and the free-roaming map encourages this distraction even further. Again, that's how FE has been for the most part. That is a series, not an Awakening problem. As for the free-roaming map, it's hardly free-roaming. How exactly are the useless, gray circles distracting you from the active, red ones? You're making a much bigger deal out of something that means pretty much nothing in the grand scheme. That being said, I'm not happy with some of ways, most of the ways, Awakening turned out, not because it ruined a series of flawless, peerless, strategy games with concise and concrete storytelling, that "makes me want to cry," but because FE is a good example of NIntendo product stagnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden Wall Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I can't take this thread seriously because of the Engrish in the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) I can't take this thread seriously because of the Engrish in the title. Look, if you're just going to be a dick, leave. Leave, now. If you really want to be an ass that badly, go do it in FFtF. Edited April 18, 2014 by Gaia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts