I can't get over a Blatant Lie in Advertising (Spoilers)

[Sunwoo]

The third path is canon solely because it has the Fire Emblem -- *shot*

Third path or not, it sounds like none of the campaigns really lived up to the expectations that several of us had and in some way it feels like the "sibling bonds" aspect was shafted for waifuism, which in my opinion cheapens that angle. I actually feel everything this story wanted done could've been accomplished by keeping Kamui blood-related to Hoshido and with more world-building and less things that make people want to jump out a window.

I'm also awake far earlier than I should be, so I won't go into that here. (It's off-topic anyway.) Point being, don't trust advertising because in the end it lies to you.

[Othin]

Considering that one side loses in Nohr or Hoshido paths, but both sides win and with the "best for everyone" ending in the third path, I'm pretty sure the third route was intended to be the best path.

That doesn't necessarily mean people will always WANT to play the third path over the other two. Have you seen its level design?

[Thane]

Gotta stop you there. How is it far worse? No path is technically 'incorrect'. You side with who you wanna side with or you ignore both sides and do your own thing because you like both families equally. Every path leads to many changes, gameplay wise and story wise. Which is more than Awakening did since it was always just one straight path with no changes at all.

The third path contains the true villain, gives you access to all but three characters who are kamusexual anyway, has the golden ending where everyone's happy and reveals pretty much everything there is to know about the story. It makes the other two paths completely obsolete in comparison, save for map variation and different difficulty levels.

If you're like me and play mainly for the story and characters, there's very little reason to play any other version. Awakening's choices aren't even comparable since they're just dialogue differences; this choice more or less butchered the story, which I would consider far worse.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Jedi]

The third path contains the true villain, gives you access to all but three characters who are kamusexual anyway, has the golden ending where everyone's happy and reveals pretty much everything there is to know about the story. It makes the other two paths completely obsolete in comparison, save for map variation and different difficulty levels.

If you're like me and play mainly for the story and characters, there's very little reason to play any other version. Awakening's choices aren't even comparable since they're just dialogue differences; this choice more or less butchered the story, which I would consider far worse.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

But from a gameplay perspective you've got like nearly 80ish chapters all together, thats alot of content, plus all 3 stories are different and not all of them are happy sure. But some people like bittersweet endings, its much like Shin Megami Tensei where Law and Chaos are both extremes and yet not alot of people complain about those being pointless in favor of the more golden Neutral ending because it takes 3 playthroughs to see the entire game, because they put in the effort to make the routes unique, and in SMT its alot more towards end game so Fates has more difference then a game thats heavily based on an alignment system

Edited July 21, 2015 by Jedi

[Othin]

The third path contains the true villain, gives you access to all but three characters who are kamusexual anyway, has the golden ending where everyone's happy and reveals pretty much everything there is to know about the story. It makes the other two paths completely obsolete in comparison, save for map variation and different difficulty levels.

If you're like me and play mainly for the story and characters, there's very little reason to play any other version. Awakening's choices aren't even comparable since they're just dialogue differences; this choice more or less butchered the story, which I would consider far worse.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Having the true villain and making everyone happy aren't the only possible story and character concerns. There's plenty of interest in spending more than just the beginning of the game fighting familiar characters and coming to an imperfect conclusion.

I can understand if you don't see much appeal to that, but don't assume it's a common view. Different people will have different favorites, and even looking beyond the maps themselves, each route has plenty to offer. Having the option for each person to go with their own favorite is a good thing.

[Thane]

Having the true villain and making everyone happy aren't the only possible story and character concerns. There's plenty of interest in spending more than just the beginning of the game fighting familiar characters and coming to an imperfect conclusion.

I can understand if you don't see much appeal to that, but don't assume it's a common view. Different people will have different favorites, and even looking beyond the maps themselves, each route has plenty to offer. Having the option for each person to go with their own favorite is a good thing.

Au contraire, I would have vastly preferred an imperfect conclusion, as you phrased it. If the third path had been removed entirely, the choice would've had a lot more weight behind it and more time could've been spent developing characters like Garon.

As it stands now though, it feels like the true ending is behind a paywall. I already explained why I think the other two routes are obsolete, so if you don't agree with me, then that's fine. However, I will assume that it's a common view because I've talked to a lot of people who feel the same.

[Faker]

I think there's a lot of wasted potential with Mikoto. She's the strongest reason to side with Hoshido, and yes her death made you feel in debt to her kingdom, however I think it'd be better if she didn't die as early as she did. During the Nohr path she could be an enemy, yet refuse to attack Kamui, who then is overflowing with guilt for causing his birth mother's death. From what I've seen we only see Mikoto for a little while, for the Hoshido path they could have expanded on her maternal nature and how she was affected by Kamui's abduction.

Like others have said the whole Bloodline thing wasn't the whole truth, but they could have at least made it a more compelling story that is more loyal to the theme of Bloodlines had Mikoto played a larger role on the story. It would make the players suffer the consequences for siding with Nohr and how much would it hurt you emotionally knowing that you killed your own mother to show loyalty towards the Nohr kingdom.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Faker

[Gomez_Addams]

You're right, it's far worse.

"You've got three options, two are incorrect and the last makes them obsolete anyway."

It's not much of a choice.

What if I want to make the wrong choice?

[CyborgZeta]

It bothers me that they essentially sold the true route as DLC.

You get pretty much all the characters and the best My Castle.

It's also possible that they cannibalized plot elements from the other routes to make the third route more worthwhile.

[B.Leu]

Gratuitous french. *w*

Seriously though, I can't understand people who say that the third path isn't the golden ending and thus make the other two useless, I mean come on, Thane summed it up perfectly.

Ah, but people can have their own opinions.

What if II don't want to sympathize with the other side at all ?
Really, IS shoot themselves in the crotch with their choices thingy. Big time, and it's not even funny.

Edited July 21, 2015 by B.Leu

[Alazen]

Among other fixes, I wouldn't object to the 3rd Path if it wasn't so damn sunny compared to the other Paths, while also not being part of the default game.

If the narrative wasn't so focused on "Holy Hoshido Do Nothing Wrong", then we could have gotten a Path on how both kingdoms need to be crushed to end the bloody era. Or a Path like the Refusal Ending from Mass Effect 3 where Kamui is punished for not picking a side.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Alazen

[Abysswalker25]

The third path is the golden ending, but to say the other two paths are useless is foolish. Sure maybe the endings aren't as great and not everything is peaceful in the other one, but don't write them off completely, they still have content and a twist, if Kamui decided to choose to side with one of his families against the other. A what if. What if you sided with Nohr? What if you sided with Hoshido? What if you sided with neither? All three paths turn out differently, have their stories and gameplay. Even if the third path is canon, wouldn't you want to see how the other paths play out, giving you a different angle to view how things could have been different?

Its three stories. Going "Oh this one is canon, screw the other ones because they don't matter in the end!" is your choice, but you're depriving yourself of the other stories to read into solely because of that fact, in which case I don't quite understand. Granted, you might feel this way if you actually played all the paths but it just shows that you explored every outcome of your big choice. No one is forcing the golden ending on you, nor are they forcing the other two. -You- pick what you want to do. (Unless you just have one version but even then you're still making a choice because it was the one you bought)

Edited July 21, 2015 by Abysswalker25

[Othin]

Seriously though, I can't understand people who say that the third path isn't the golden ending and thus make the other two useless, I mean come on, Thane summed it up perfectly.

Because I've played it.

[Alazen]

You left out how the 3rd Path isn't part of the default. You have to get the required DLC or the Special Edition to see the narrative finish with the loose ends tied up.

Also, the 3rd Path is dependent on a ridiculous excuse for Aqua not to bring up Hydra and Touma in the other Paths (a magical curse that prevents you from telling others about Touma).

Edited July 21, 2015 by Alazen

[Sunwoo]

At this point, I'm starting to think the whole "choice" aspect may have screwed over quite a few things regarding the story and the characters.

- Hoshido is portrayed as "obviously good" while Nohr is "obviously not-good". That's boring.

- Nohr's story. Just … Nohr's story.

- Your Hoshido siblings apparently still forgive you (and in one case died saving you) if you pick Nohr, and the one who never liked you (and in Nohr path has every reason not to) is portrayed as being "wrong".

- Your Nohr siblings seem to be more understanding about your betrayal (minus one, who comes around before they die), as if it were the "right" choice to pick Hoshido.

- The third path brings up more questions than answers regarding the other two paths

Kind of makes you wonder where all those resources went into.

EDIT: Actually, I wonder if some of the above points may have been exacerbated by the fact that the main lord is an avatar this time around. With the player worship and the pandering and the yeah.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Alazen]

With how mishandled Nohr and the 3rd Path is, I wonder if it was considered that Fates would be one game. But then somebody got the bright idea to pull a Pokemon and do a split.

It would address Nohr's narrative (at first it wasn't supposed to have a game to itself) and how poorly integrated Touma is.

[Othin]

With how mishandled Nohr and the 3rd Path is, I wonder if it was considered that Fates would be one game. But then somebody got the bright idea to pull a Pokemon and do a split.

It would address Nohr's narrative (at first it wasn't supposed to have a game to itself) and how poorly integrated Touma is.

Pokemon offers a handful of tiny changes for the price of a whole extra game. Fates offers entire additional stories for the price of half a game. The way they market the physical versions of Fates does invoke the idea of Pokemon but they're really not at all comparable.

[Blue Sun]

Pokemon offers a handful of tiny changes for the price of a whole extra game. Fates offers entire additional stories for the price of half a game. The way they market the physical versions of Fates does invoke the idea of Pokemon but they're really not at all comparable.

Fates is more akin to the Oracle series of The Legend of Zelda.

[JupiterKnight]

At this point, I'm starting to think the whole "choice" aspect may have screwed over quite a few things regarding the story and the characters.

- Hoshido is portrayed as "obviously good" while Nohr is "obviously not-good". That's boring.

- Nohr's story. Just … Nohr's story.

- Your Hoshido siblings apparently still forgive you (and in one case died saving you) if you pick Nohr, and the one who never liked you (and in Nohr path has every reason not to) is portrayed as being "wrong".

- Your Nohr siblings seem to be more understanding about your betrayal (minus one, who comes around before they die), as if it were the "right" choice to pick Hoshido.

- The third path brings up more questions than answers regarding the other two paths

Kind of makes you wonder where all those resources went into.

EDIT: Actually, I wonder if some of the above points may have been exacerbated by the fact that the main lord is an avatar this time around. With the player worship and the pandering and the yeah.

You know looking on his scenes I get that Takumi is less wrong and more that he allowed his emotions to consume him. It got to the point that he

was possessed by Hydra/Anankos just like Gunter was and jumps to his death while under Hydras control.

And the Avatar spares him way too much for my liking. But oh well still one of my favorite siblings amongst the bunch alongside Leo.

[Alazen]

By this point, I would put Mass Effect 3's narrative over Fates. At least you don't have to get DLC to see Shepard find a way to defeat the Reapers. And trying to get out of making a choice of what to do with the Crucible leads to the Reapers winning the current Cycle.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Alazen

[Othin]

Fates is more akin to the Oracle series of The Legend of Zelda.

Ahh, that's a good comparison.

[Jedi]

By this point, I would put Mass Effect 3's narrative over Fates. At least you don't have to get DLC to see Shepard find a way to defeat the Reapers. And trying to get out of making a choice of what to do with the Crucible leads to the Reapers winning the current Cycle.

But unlike ME you don't have to pay for information on how the ending actually worked. ME3 is a mess throughout.

[Sunwoo]

You know looking on his scenes I get that Takumi is less wrong and more that he allowed his emotions to consume him. It got to the point that he

was possessed by Hydra/Anankos just like Gunter was and jumps to his death while under Hydras control.

And the Avatar spares him way too much for my liking. But oh well still one of my favorite siblings amongst the bunch alongside Leo.

Most of my understanding of the Nohr route is secondhand, from the translators and people who've played it and understood the story. If I recall correctly, I believe they said that the game treats Takumi's dislike of the avatar as having been something "bad" on the Nohr path even though he's justified there at least.

Apparently, the actually dead Takumi forgives Kamui and says that the thing fighting against him isn't really him and just a manifestation of his resentment? Ehh … I can understand not wanting the lingering spirit of your resentment running around, but I am not quite sure why Takumi (or Ryouma or Mikoto or the surviving sisters for that matter) all forgave him so easily. Even on the Hoshido route I am not too sure what to think about Marx forgiving you. It's possible to say, "for the sake of my spirit being at peace, I will forgive you" but not be all hunky-dory like everything is okay and you're all smiles.

I don't know, apparently it wasn't handled all too well? I'll make my own judgment when the game comes out in English, but from what I've heard it doesn't look too favorable for the game's writing.

[CyborgZeta]

By this point, I would put Mass Effect 3's narrative over Fates. At least you don't have to get DLC to see Shepard find a way to defeat the Reapers. And trying to get out of making a choice of what to do with the Crucible leads to the Reapers winning the current Cycle.

ME3 was terrible for different reasons. Don't forget they had to release an Extended Cut DLC to clarify their poorly written ending, plus we had to wait for paid DLC (Leviathan) to get clarification as to the origins of the Catalyst.

[JupiterKnight]

Most of my understanding of the Nohr route is secondhand, from the translators and people who've played it and understood the story. If I recall correctly, I believe they said that the game treats Takumi's dislike of the avatar as having been something "bad" on the Nohr path even though he's justified there at least.

Apparently, the actually dead Takumi forgives Kamui and says that the thing fighting against him isn't really him and just a manifestation of his resentment? Ehh … I can understand not wanting the lingering spirit of your resentment running around, but I am not quite sure why Takumi (or Ryouma or Mikoto or the surviving sisters for that matter) all forgave him so easily. Even on the Hoshido route I am not too sure what to think about Marx forgiving you. It's possible to say, "for the sake of my spirit being at peace, I will forgive you" but not be all hunky-dory like everything is okay and you're all smiles.

I don't know, apparently it wasn't handled all too well? I'll make my own judgment when the game comes out in English, but from what I've heard it doesn't look too favorable for the game's writing.

Probably because being dead gives you better insight. Like the fact that he didn't actually do the killing of Mikoto. Something that Mikoto knows because she protected him from the real perpetrator. Ryouma sepukku to protect Kamui since Garon and Iago would have him executed otherwise and realized Hinoka and Sakura were still alive. Though if you consider how he passed on it likely means Takumis hatred remained in his corpse (As that's why Hydra was able to possess him in the first place and the corpse is filled with hatred) since emotions are sometimes believed to remain even if the soul is gone. So he was able to let go of those feelings with his death.