General US Politics

[Excellen Browning]

You make it sound like the border patrol was mass slaughtering illegals out here. Seriously, like I said it is what they were saying. I know for a fact that the border patrol were not mass murdering people out here, nor were situations where shootings happened very often, at all. While that one example you made was a case of a bad agent, it wasn't agency wide. Whether or not what they said was true is up I. The air. I didn't fully believe it either, but I do think there is a little validity to their claim considering they were the ones working for the border patrol and not me. Can't confirm, nor deny.

And I'm sorry, assault is assault. You do throw a rock at someone unless you intend to hurt them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Those people throwing rocks, unless the border patrol shot first, had no business doing so in the first place, and I hold no sympathy for the fact they got shot. Maybe they shouldn't of been throwing rocks and trying to harm armed officials of the government.

Are you intentionally focussing on my epic SJW memes?

[Time the Crestfallen]

Not exactly shocking, but a interesting read, especially considering all the discussion about Trump's voter base.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

Edited January 8, 2017 by The Blind Idiot God

[Yojinbo]

NAFTA is a bad deal because it put a lot of mexican farmers out of business and since Mexico can't offer them any viable alternative options they have to try their luck in the states. It's a deal for the benefit of the upper 1% at the expense of everybody else.

The free trade "agreements" between the EU and african countries work the same way: african countries are blackmailed via the dependance on development aids and the IMF to sign agreements with the EU that ruins the local agriculture and forces farmers out of business. They migrate to Europe hoping to find a better future there. It's a win-win situation for Europe's upper 1% as they not only gain easy access to a new caste of modern slaves but also get to misuse Africa as one big garbage dump. NAFTA very much works the same way with the USA and Mexico.

You can look at Bill Clinton and NAFTA for that one then.

It was actually Bush sen. who negotiated, promoted and signed NAFTA. Clinton "only" ratified it - with the majority of support coming from the Republicans [132 reps vs 102 dems]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement#Negotiation_and_U.S._ratification

[Life]

Not exactly shocking, but a interesting read, especially considering all the discussion about Trump's voter base.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

I love that chart. "Denying of racism" means more likely to support Trump.

​Because not buying into your ideological claims means racism and therefore a Trump supporter.

​By the way, can we put a statute of limitations on any claims about slavery and Jim Crow? Slavery was ended 150 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 years ago. Can you stop blaming white people for shit that happened before most of them were even born?

[Radiant head]

It was actually Bush sen. who negotiated, promoted and signed NAFTA. Clinton "only" ratified it - with the majority of support coming from the Republicans [132 reps vs 102 dems]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement#Negotiation_and_U.S._ratification

well no one put a gun to his head on it.

Not exactly shocking, but a interesting read, especially considering all the discussion about Trump's voter base.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

pretty sure you could get whatever data you wanted based on how these poll questions were phrased tbh.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Radiant head

[Tryhard]

I love that chart. "Denying of racism" means more likely to support Trump.

​Because not buying into your ideological claims means racism and therefore a Trump supporter.

​By the way, can we put a statute of limitations on any claims about slavery and Jim Crow? Slavery was ended 150 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 years ago. Can you stop blaming white people for shit that happened before most of them were even born?

Whatever to what they are doing, but considering it has been polled multiple times that around 20% of Trump supporters outright say they disagree with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation ending slavery 150 years ago, it's not really surprising that people draw conclusions that if you are an outspoken racist you are more likely to be a Trump supporter.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Tryhard

[Excellen Browning]

You make it sound like the border patrol was mass slaughtering illegals out here. Seriously, like I said it is what they were saying. I know for a fact that the border patrol were not mass murdering people out here, nor were situations where shootings happened very often, at all. While that one example you made was a case of a bad agent, it wasn't agency wide. Whether or not what they said was true is up I. The air. I didn't fully believe it either, but I do think there is a little validity to their claim considering they were the ones working for the border patrol and not me. Can't confirm, nor deny.

And I'm sorry, assault is assault. You do throw a rock at someone unless you intend to hurt them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Those people throwing rocks, unless the border patrol shot first, had no business doing so in the first place, and I hold no sympathy for the fact they got shot. Maybe they shouldn't of been throwing rocks and trying to harm armed officials of the government.

Are you intentionally focussing on my epic SJW memes?

To make myself perfectly clear here, I would gladly kill your children for trespassing if their ball fell into my garden and they come to fetch it.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Excellen Browning

[Etrurian emperor]

Not exactly shocking, but a interesting read, especially considering all the discussion about Trump's voter base.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

I don't have the most positive view on the populist voterbase but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they aren't wildly racist or sexist, or at least that its not their driving motivation. There are a lot of racists and sexists who support a populist but that's just a natural result of them fishing from the absolute bottom of the barrel. High educated support for the populist isn't non existent and it doesn't even have to be rare but the clear core supports come from people that are lowly educated, and particularly the loudest and least nuanced of that group. If you go out of your way to cater to that crowd you're going to attract more people that are openly racist.

I think populist voters are driven much more by anger, hostility and hatred than other voter groups but that's primarily aimed at the establishment rather than any color or sex. People weren't so hostile to Clinton because she was a woman but because with her long career she embodied the establishment. Things like gender equality and racial equality might be opposed by those voters in part because the establishment believes so strongly in those things or at least because the populist voters think they do.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Integrity]

To make myself perfectly clear here, I would gladly kill your children for trespassing if their ball fell into my garden and they come to fetch it.

i'm not sure immediately if you're making a point or hyperbolically exaggerating the other guy's point because i'm really hungry right now but this statement sounds like a great place to stop this line of debate thanks awesome

EDIT: or rethink the trajectory, i guess i don't mind if the immigration discussion continues just keep it out of these kinds of comparisons

Edited January 8, 2017 by Integrity

[Yojinbo]

I think populist voters are driven much more by anger, hostility and hatred than other voter groups but that's primarily aimed at the establishment rather than any color or sex. People weren't so hostile to Clinton because she was a woman but because with her long career she embodied the establishment.

The whole idea of Trump being "anti-establishment" was and is a complete meme though. He's every bit as much part of the establishment as Hillary is but somehow he made people actually believe it.

[Excellen Browning]

i'm not sure immediately if you're making a point or hyperbolically exaggerating the other guy's point because i'm really hungry right now but this statement sounds like a great place to stop this line of debate thanks awesome

EDIT: or rethink the trajectory, i guess i don't mind if the immigration discussion continues just keep it out of these kinds of comparisons

That's just, like, your opinion man! Who are you to silence me! My right of free speech is being denied!

Fine, you spoilsport.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Excellen Browning

[Etrurian emperor]

The whole idea of Trump being "anti-establishment" was and is a complete meme though. He's every bit as much part of the establishment as Hillary is but somehow he made people actually believe it.

Indeed and that reflect very poorly on those who did buy into it. It SHOULD be a meme but being an outsider is what people find so appealing in Trump and the populists.

''We are tired of all those liars in Washington'' Say the people who vote for the biggest liar in the election.

''Politicians are only out to serve the rich!'' Say the people voting for a rich guy only out for himself and his company.

''Clinton is in the pocket of big money'' Go the people who now see their guy flirt with Goldman sach people and who IS big money.

[Tolvir]

To make myself perfectly clear here, I would gladly kill your children for trespassing if their ball fell into my garden and they come to fetch it.

Um.... that comparison doesn't make any sense, let alone wrong on a lot of levels. I said throwing rocks at people. You ever been hit with a rock? They are hard dense solid objects. They can kill. There are things called stonings, where people throw ROCKS at someone till they are severely injured or dead. Throwing a rock at someone can hurt and even KILL them. So if the illegal aliens crossing a border are throwing rocks at ARMED OFFICIALS OF THE US GOVERNMENT then they knew what would come after that. Like I said, it's entirely different if they didn't start throwing until after they were shot at.

[Radiant head]

Indeed and that reflect very poorly on those who did buy into it. It SHOULD be a meme but being an outsider is what people find so appealing in Trump and the populists.

''We are tired of all those liars in Washington'' Say the people who vote for the biggest liar in the election.

''Politicians are only out to serve the rich!'' Say the people voting for a rich guy only out for himself and his company.

''Clinton is in the pocket of big money'' Go the people who now see their guy flirt with Goldman sach people and who IS big money.

i think clinton actually helped give trump perceived credibility as an antiestablishment candidate by running such a terrible campaign.

[Phoenix Wright]

I love that chart. "Denying of racism" means more likely to support Trump.

​Because not buying into your ideological claims means racism and therefore a Trump supporter.

​By the way, can we put a statute of limitations on any claims about slavery and Jim Crow? Slavery was ended 150 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 years ago. Can you stop blaming white people for shit that happened before most of them were even born?

what about the plethora of disadvantages that exist today?

[Excellen Browning]

Throwing a rock at someone can hurt. So if the illegal aliens crossing a border are throwing rocks at ARMED OFFICIALS OF THE US GOVERNMENT then they knew what would come after that. Like I said, it's entirely different if they didn't start throwing until after they were shot at.

yes

have you seen the size of rocks that get thrown

if you manage to get killed by having pebbles thrown at you then gg

otherwise screaming LETHAL INTENT when officer Nick said ouch when one hit him and killing someone/unloading into a crowd/making sure they're good and dead by pumping all of your bullets into them at close range is obviously the reasonable way to go

[Tryhard]

makes me wonder how all those riot police don't just massacre rowdy football hooligans

[Radiant head]

probably because they don't have brow skin

[eclipse]

Not exactly shocking, but a interesting read, especially considering all the discussion about Trump's voter base.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

Thanks for the PDF link, Vox, because that article wasn't very well-written. I have an issue with the sample size (400 each black and Latino, leaving 1200 white/other races), especially since there's such a large focus on whites. IMO it needed to be double.

[Lord Raven]

​By the way, can we put a statute of limitations on any claims about slavery and Jim Crow? Slavery was ended 150 years ago. Jim Crow ended 50 years ago. Can you stop blaming white people for shit that happened before most of them were even born?

People are blaming a system with white people in the bureaucracy and created by white people, not white people themselves

White people are merely the beneficiaries

50 years is a generation and a half ago

EDIT: besides Life you insult people all the time over their views, either assuming their viewpoint and condescending on it or calling them evil. Why are you so high and mighty?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Lord Raven

[eclipse]

Oh, and CHILL OUT on the hyperbole. Like swearing in general conversation, and hot sauce in pulled pork, it ruins everything when used indiscriminately.

EDIT: Not you, Lord Raven, you're fine.

Edited January 8, 2017 by eclipse

[Radiant head]

People are blaming a system with white people in the bureaucracy and created by white people, not white people themselves

White people are merely the beneficiaries

50 years is a generation and a half ago

yeah legislation doesn't just make racism magically disappear, civil rights, is still an ongoing struggle.

you don't even need to look much further than the 13th amendment allowing slavery via incarceration, and then seeing how that manifests in private prisons and mass incarceration of black people

[Time the Crestfallen]

More links.

https://icontherecord.tumblr.com/post/155494946443/odni-statement-on-declassified-intelligence

[Radiant head]

RT runs anti-fracking programming, highlighting environmental issues and the impacts on public health. This is likely reflective of the Russian Government's concern about the impact of fracking and US natural gas production on the global energy market and the potential challenges to Gazprom's profitability (5 October).

lmao this is truly incredible

[Moonstone]

I'm not happy with the results of the election. It's a shame the race came down to two highly unpopular candidates. The presidential race should never have to come down to "I'm voting for _x_ just because I hate _y_ more!" which imo was the case this election.

I would vote 3rd party if there was someone I backed enough but this election, but I didn't really align with either Stein or Johnson, and Bernie didn't want to be voted for, so I chose one of the two major candidates this time around.