Rezzy Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Agreed, I think authoritarian populist is the best descriptor at this point. Fascist is a bit premature and counterproductive to the argument, but if people want to use the term, we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/01/23/trump-administration-tells-epa-to-freeze-all-grants-contracts/?utm_term=.48aefdbe96ff Quote Trump has repeatedly criticized the EPA for what he calls a string of onerous, expensive regulations that are hampering businesses. He's delivered on a campaign promise I guess! Fucking idiot. Edited January 25, 2017 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Wonderful, I can dump chemical waste down the drain now! Fuck you OSHA! Also does he want to send feds down to Chicago to stop the violence or to suppress the Women's March lmao? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukina Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 31 minutes ago, Mimikyu said: Wonderful, I can dump chemical waste down the drain now! Fuck you OSHA! Also does he want to send feds down to Chicago to stop the violence or to suppress the Women's March lmao? Sadly it's already possible to get away with that to some degree. That's part the reason the Gulf of Mexico's water is so unpleasant. The EPA will be fine but this is going to hinder them which isn't exactly something we need right now. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/science/earth-highest-temperature-record.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0 I'm interested in seeing what will happen in North Dakota now that Trump is in office. A missile launcher was sent to help maintain the order this month. They already have a microwave sound cannon and the National Guard protecting the pipeline among other things. There's also this little monster in the form of a bill. http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/motorist-liability-introduced-in-response-to-pipeline-protests/article_27bfbbe1-40b3-53ab-a620-3b6e0225fb59.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 24.1.2017 at 0:24 AM, Tryhard said: Who is this addressed to? To people who think propagating a totalitarian ideology like communism is somehow less problematic when it's happening under the disguise of "anti-fascism". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) communism isn't a "totalitarian" ideology lol. outside of a marginal fringe of nutcases, they aren't calling for stalinism. Edited January 25, 2017 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Communism is always totalitarian unless it establishes itself the way it does in Marx' theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) which is exactly what marxist proponents want. most people do not want a dictatorship. communists do not want a dictatorship; they want what was prophesied in the communist manifesto. to say that communism is always totalitarian or draconian is misleading. in reality, dictators see facets of communism and employ them for ease of control. it would be very hard to be a dictator if there are major corporations and millions of small business owners that could defy you whenever. but it's a hell of a lot easier if you first take over the means of production. but dictatorships are hardly "communist" societies. so we can reject communism in practice because it is seemingly impossible to apply correctly. but communism itself is not always totalitarian (ie, inherently totalitarian), just as laissez faire capitalism is not always an oligarchy/a plutocracy. it simply leads to it--which is an important distinction. Edited January 25, 2017 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Sarracenia said: I'm interested in seeing what will happen in North Dakota now that Trump is in office. A missile launcher was sent to help maintain the order this month. They already have a microwave sound cannon and the National Guard protecting the pipeline among other things. There's also this little monster in the form of a bill. http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/motorist-liability-introduced-in-response-to-pipeline-protests/article_27bfbbe1-40b3-53ab-a620-3b6e0225fb59.html Nothing good, that's for sure. Native Americans will continue to be shit upon by the government. It should be a concern of anyone (even if you're pro-pipeline) that Trump is targeting the specific review and approval process. Also worth mentioning that several journalists were arrested at the inauguration protests (they were not participants) and cell phones have been confiscated and possibly data-mined. Edited January 25, 2017 by Res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/01/24/the-true-correct-story-of-what-happened-at-donald-trumps-inauguration/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.94deaba1184f Trump is a special snowflake confirmed. Also, McCain standing up against torture outside the law: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/316031-mccain-to-trump-were-not-bringing-back-torture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Phoenix Wright said: which is exactly what marxist proponents want. most people do not want a dictatorship. communists do not want a dictatorship; they want what was prophesied in the communist manifesto. The people that wave the communist flag at antifa demonstrations aren't just mere "marxist proponents" though. Check out the history of antifa demonstrations in EU - they've got quite a history of violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 will do, thanks. though, they probably justify the violence with it being what marx said would happen, though, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I just read Trump has made the first move to get started on building the border wall; what does this mean in practice? When could they start working on something like that, and wouldn't it need to go through the Senate first? Also, uh, a slightly less objective question, but how on Earth is the U.S going to salvage its relationship with Mexico? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 "bash the fash" was somewhat popular for a while in europe, perhaps due to the fact that fascism has caused... a lot of grief in europe. but how quickly we forget. in the uk, for example, there still is out and out public confrontations of violence between groups like the National Front and British National Party and Anti-Fascist (which can very often be full of anarchists as well as extreme leftists) groups to this day. 3 minutes ago, Thane said: I just read Trump has made the first move to get started on building the border wall; what does this mean in practice? When could they start working on something like that, and wouldn't it need to go through the Senate first? Also, uh, a slightly less objective question, but how on Earth is the U.S going to salvage its relationship with Mexico? Is it just an executive order so far? I saw that at least, but Obama did sign an order to close Guantanamo Bay. It never happened. We'll see. It's not going to as long as Trump is in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Tryhard said: Is it just an executive order so far? I saw that at least, but Obama did sign an order to close Guantanamo Bay. It never happened. We'll see. It's not going to as long as Trump is in charge. It says it's an executive decree, yes. I didn't know about Obama signing one for the closing of Guantanamo though, so I guess that's good; I think that wall would remain no small source of friction between Mexico and the U.S long after Trump's presidency ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tryhard said: It's not going to as long as Trump is in charge. I agree. He probably just signed the order, so he can't be called a liar later. I wouldn't worry about a wall being built. It's stupid but more importantly it's ineffective. Because even if there is wall, illegal imigrants will still find a way in. There are tons of ways of entering the US using illegal means. Unless he plans on building a wall on the canadian border, on the sea and on the sky. And even then, he can't stop the fact that some guards could simply be bribed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Water Mage said: I agree. He probably just signed the order, so he can't be called a liar later. I wouldn't worry about a wall being built. It's stupid but more importantly it's ineffective. Because even if there is wall, illegal imigrants will still find a way in. There are tons of ways of entering the US using illegal means. Unless he plans on building a wall on the canadian border, on the sea and on the sky. And even then, he can't stop the fact that some guards could simply be bribed. I meant more about the relationship with Mexico recovering, but I honestly don't see the wall being built either. If it does, it seems little more than a waste of time and money. It says it's an executive decree, yes. I didn't know about Obama signing one for the closing of Guantanamo though, so I guess that's good; I think that wall would remain no small source of friction between Mexico and the U.S long after Trump's presidency ends. Yeah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13492 Edited January 25, 2017 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tryhard said: I meant more about the relationship with Mexico recovering, but I honestly don't see the wall being built either. If it does, it seems little more than a waste of time and money. The relationship will worsen that's for sure, but let's be honest, there is no possible way that mexicans will pay for it. Hell, if that wall is ever built, americans will end up paying for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Trump is still using an unsecured phone. There's some explanations of the alternatives to the ACA offered by Republicans so far here; regardless of what's implemented, I can't see it being any cheaper or having better coverage for anyone. The executive orders regarding immigrants that Trump signed today are awful. Especially what it'll mean for DREAMers; many of these people don't even remember the countries they came from, and many also won't speak the language - you're causing someone to uproot their entire life, and families will be split up. 38 minutes ago, Water Mage said: The relationship will worsen that's for sure, but let's be honest, there is no possible way that mexicans will pay for it. Hell, if that wall is ever built, americans will end up paying for it. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 From what I've seen, supposedly it was supposed to be Congress initially paying and then Mexico, now the plan is for U.S taxpayers to pay it. Sounds... Impractical to say the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Augestein said: From what I've seen, supposedly it was supposed to be Congress initially paying and then Mexico, now the plan is for U.S taxpayers to pay it. Sounds... Impractical to say the very least. With all due respect to american people, this is hilarious and I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "Mexicans will pay for it!" he said. Now look who's paying for it. Americans. You can't deny the irony is hilarious. I'm really sorry for laughing at this, but I just can't help it. Trump did say the Mexico will reimbruse, but we all know that's not going to happen. I'm curious, what was the reaction of the american people to the fact that they will have to pay for the wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Res said: Trump is still using an unsecured phone. If that's true it will serve him right if trolls hack his twitter account or his private messages end up on wikileaks. I just hope to God that he's not sending or receiving classified information on that thing. We already had that problem with Hillary, so you think he would have tried to not do the exact same thing. 1 hour ago, Augestein said: From what I've seen, supposedly it was supposed to be Congress initially paying and then Mexico, now the plan is for U.S taxpayers to pay it. Sounds... Impractical to say the very least. Congress paying for it and the US taxpayers paying for it would be the same thing, since Congress can only really get money by taxing and similar revenue measures. 2 minutes ago, Water Mage said: With all due respect to american people, this is hilarious and I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "Mexicans will pay for it!" he said. Now look who's paying for it. Americans. You can't deny the irony is hilarious. I'm really sorry for laughing at this, but I just can't help it. Trump did say the Mexico will reimbruse, but we all know that's not going to happen. I'm curious, what was the reaction of the american people to the fact that they will have to pay for the wall? From an American, I'm not really surprised. I figured if he actually did go ahead with his Great Wall of Trump plan, it would be us paying for it. Extorting Mexico to pay for it always seemed a weird claim to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 24 minutes ago, Water Mage said: I'm curious, what was the reaction of the american people to the fact that they will have to pay for the wall? Apart from the 'I expected it/no surprise' reactions from non-Trump supporters, I've not really seen anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Augestein said: From what I've seen, supposedly it was supposed to be Congress initially paying and then Mexico, now the plan is for U.S taxpayers to pay it. Sounds... Impractical to say the very least. Man. He should pay for that fucking wall himself. Not foot the bill onto people who don't want a fucking wall. Edited January 26, 2017 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christianguy7 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rezzy said: If that's true it will serve him right if trolls hack his twitter account or his private messages end up on wikileaks. I just hope to God that he's not sending or receiving classified information on that thing. We already had that problem with Hillary, so you think he would have tried to not do the exact same thing. Congress paying for it and the US taxpayers paying for it would be the same thing, since Congress can only really get money by taxing and similar revenue measures. From an American, I'm not really surprised. I figured if he actually did go ahead with his Great Wall of Trump plan, it would be us paying for it. Extorting Mexico to pay for it always seemed a weird claim to make. TBH if he does go through with the tariffs, and stuff he has said he would levy on Mexican trade, those would bring that money back into our economy, but not our pockets. As a tax payer, I really hate paying for unnecessary stuff, and I do want illegal immigration to end, I want legal immigration to continue, I'm half Irish, and British. My family were immigrants,(Not the last few generations, they came over during the Potato famine, in the 1800's.) I have a friend who was having trouble renewing his green card, (he's from Vietnam) and almost got deported, so I feel if legal immgrants, have to go through all that they have to, then these illegal immigrants should as well. I was in favor of Cruz's plan of kicking them out, and letting them back in, IF they became legal citezens, like back on Ellis Isle.(or is it Island?) Edited January 26, 2017 by Christianguy7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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