Batmafia!!! Game Over

[Izhuark]

No, I just care of what I can do to take down a mafioso before my possible death.

Why did you insist on taking down scum ? We all know a mafia game objective and saying outloud "I just want to lynch mafia" is like saying "look at me, i'm townie" wich in a defense post seem weird imo.

In regards to my suggestion of a possible investigation on him, investigative players should ALWAYS search for the most controversial/problematic/whatever player as early as possible, and that's to start with a strong basisaand quickly disperse the smoke that could have clouded the first day.

Not always, scanning null reads is also a legitimate strategy as cop and like gaius said cop have their own priority list has one of the most important power role in the game so trying to "plan" their action for them is not normal town behavior in NOC. Also could you explain what the last part of your setence mean, please ? (sorry english is not my native language ^^')

Even your really first post alone was weird to me as it seem that your are trying to make yourself as townie as possible from the very start of the game without making actual content wich is actually not a pro-town strategy but more of one that ensure some survival.

My reads are as such currently (in order from most scummy to most townie), for clarity's sake:

Proto > Gaius >>>>> Diego > Everyone else >>>>> Izhuark > Bal > MancerNecro (obviously)

Sorry that I'm posting this as a separate post.

I must admit that your way of scum hunting seem really lackluster to me... the case behind your votes them seem more like defense post than really reading the post and trying to find scummy behavior. Also even tought you put him on null leaning scum, why the diego read ? Your are clearly not buddying him but your position toward him seem exacly like the one you critized gaius for plus the fact that your content on him after the gaius vote were pretty obvious points that were already made beforehand by refa. Overall i like the fact that you ask a lot of questions but all your cases and defense post seem interested and planed more than genuine.

Izhuark, why did you claim? Your claim being serious is the first thing about you that bothers me because I can't see the town motivation for it. Yeah, I get that your role is useless, but so are vanillas and they're not expected to claim on ED1 either. Not relevant to my issues with you but you should create a Dinosaur Comic for your announcement IMO. =)

Yeah i was just doing silly at that time and i didn't tought it was serious to say it was a joke claim when it was my actual role. For my capacity i want to use the posts restrictors before the announcer.

[Izhuark]

Also could you explain what the last part of your sentence mean, please ? (sorry english is not my native language ^^')

[Mitsuki]

can you guys (@The BATMODS) put ISO's in the opening post?

NEVERRRRRRR

(done!)

[Tiny_Manakete]

##Vote: Tiny

Let's rock.

I still heart you < 3

Catching up on everything now. So I apologize for my lateness...

Would not consider voting Izuhark. Yeah, drawing attention to himself is bad, but there has to be a reason why he's doing it, plus with his, uh 'humor' if his role is as he says. Don't find anything scummy with roleclaiming early; even if his role is bad and he's telling the truth. His claim seems to be pretty genuine, however odd and random as it may be. Eh, but that information could be used against him. That said, I don't get the wagon on Izuhark. It was just because he was attempting to post in a humorous manner, which is annoying, but eh.

Mancer seems to be a bit iffy, but his case isn't that much to nitpick about. He probably wants to get more information, which can be either an advantage or disadvantage on both sides, but I still don't feel any bad vibes from him.

Diego seems to be the one I'm the most mildly concerned about. His unvote seems to be from a lack of confidence. If he really wanted to make an impression, then he should have other cases to worry about and be voting for them instead of backing away and leaving us in the dark without a lead to follow. Also I don't like how he's telling investigative roles to scan Izuhark because of what he says his role tells him to do. However seeing that he wanted to get out of the RVS, I can get what he's saying slightly. Getting a slight bad gut feeling. His vote was a little silly, that's all.

Getting null on other players.

[Ken Masters]

Wow, I'm glad to see that some activity happened, even if it was against me. You'll have a nice post from me as soon as I get home (since I refuse to write a propper Mafia post in my phone )

[Dreamer]

@Dreamer: Do you think that Diego is scummy for the mistake he made? I also don't like how you handled not wanting to vote for Diego. The main basis behind our scum hunting should be from day time discussion and not from our night actions. Despite this though, I feel like you are more likely to be a new player than a scummy player because I do not perceive any scum intent from your post. Also, what do you think of the other players in the game?

I don't think he is more scummy than any other player for this moment. I think it is strange so I'm going to remember it. I understand that day time discussions are very important ( and mayby more important than i think it is ) but i always thought that the night was just as important because scums don't randomly use their night kill, right?

I'm currently re-reading a lot of posts. There is not yet someone who is clear scum. A lot of people haven't posted yet too.

However. Refa is sharp. She was the first to mention Diego's unvote. If Diego is scum, than that would mean that she is town or a third party. Scums are not going to vote on each other on D1. But this is all a big if.

Mancer is neutral. I just think he tries to get a lot of information.

Green Poet is neutral i guess. I wonder what she currently thinks of Izhuark. In her first post she stated that she was going to read through his previous games. In het last post she voted for Diego, without even mentioning what she thought of Izhuark.

And Diego. I wonder how he is going to react to all this. I think that that can say a lot of things.

Overal. I'm going to wait. I still think it is to early to say anything.

vote ##Balcerzak ( nothing to worry about.Just to prevent that Diego is going to be lynched and to make sure that i made a vote)

[Mitsuki]

Rapier has been prodded

[ZoesMad]

OK I can't quote which sucks and I don't have a lot of time which also sucks.

Mancer: In 136, you're casing me for leaving myself open to going both ways. In my first non RVS post (I believe 121) I say that I don't agree with any of the cases (which at the time was you and Diego attacking Izuhark) but I couldn't find scum intent behind it.

Fine with GP's post, but would side with Proto in that this wasn't scumbuddies influence but his own slip up.

Proto is my first solid townread of the game so far. Really liked his effort and analysis in 143, and it caused some good stuff after it as well. His quick unvote felt natural to me as well.

Mancer's vote on Proto is complete bull. He's pushing Proto as scum for having associative reads. There can't be any town rationale behind this, because its casing him as being scummy for trying to scumhunt. Using your vote is an effective way to try and start new discussion so you can't say there isn't logic behind Proto's push on you.

@Yolo: Looks like Refa does. Not sure about everyone else, but dude you gotta get some reads in there.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Mancer

I will get to TG, Dreamer, Refa, and Izuhark when I come home.

[Kriemhild]

@Proto (I assume that Formina Sage is Proto?): If you notice, there's a five hour gap between this post and this post where I was inactive (because I went off to do my work in the office). Between those two posts is where most of the points regarding Diego's RVS stance that I actually had an opinion on was mentioned (the points mentioned were made in the later part of this post, this post and the second paragraph of this post). Before that, I did not actually have much of an opinion on his RVS stance.

If I was trying to divert attention away from Diego, I wouldn't mention him in that same post where I unvoted Izhuark and voted Gaius. In fact, I made a mention of Diego after my vote on Gaius! I think that attention would be drawn to that paragraph and Diego instead of the opposite.

Also, what part of my Gaius vote seems weird to you? Do you find it forced? Is the case weak? I also do not like the way you are tying Diego and I up with associative reads even before Diego flips. It seems as though you are already assuming that Diego is scum and expecting him to flip as such.

##Unvote: Lord Gaius

##Vote: Formina Sage

My read on Gaius still stays but Proto seems to be more likely to be active in the next few hours so I feel that my vote will be doing much more this way. Gaius should still step in to answer the question I asked of him.

To clarify, no, I am not assuming that Diego is scum, although he is my strongest scumread so far. I said that it felt like you were trying to divert attention from Diego, that's it. Stop over-interpreting it as me making associative reads and calling you out as scum (but I did have a slight scumread on you, yes). I'm not saying that you certainly were trying to divert attention from Diego, and I understand that for you to consciously do so would only make sense if you were both scumbuddies, but I did not state any assumptions of that sort. With how scummy Diego's unvote was, I felt that you listing Diego like some end note and talking about his RVS stuff (which was long ago and imo it's heavily overshadowed by his unnatural unvote and following defense) felt like you were diverting attention away from him. I still feel that way, fyi, and I'm not taking my words back. I can't stop you from interpreting my words however you want, but please don't stick them into my mouth.

With respect to your vote on Gaius, as I said before, I find your vote on him weird because I find it ridiculous that you were painting him as scummy for not elaborating on a point that he made. On a related note, I find your vote on me to be really weird too, and no, this isn't a OMGUS. I did say I had a slight scumread on you before, but your insistence in interpreting simple comments as having deep scummy implications is strengthening my scumread on you, sorry.

In other news, Izhuark is starting to participate seriously now, which is nice. I'm also liking Tiny's and Dreamer's activity, but Dreamer's Balcerzak vote seems really weird and random, since she didn't even mention him at all. It's not scummy though, it's likely just lack of experience. Dreamer, don't vote just for the sake of voting; there's no point in that. If you don't want to vote for Diego, that's fine (and I support that too), but don't just vote for a random person without indicating any kind of basis. You should either remain without a vote or vote for somebody that you want to pressure for whatever reasons you have.

[Balcerzak]

Back for another post here. Apologies again, but I did warn the hosts that I was going to be somewhat short on time due to expected late nights at work on MTW (due to needing to get as much done before the holiday as possible). Regardless, time marches on, so let's get to it. New content from Mancer makes me less wary of him. Especially /how/ he defended himself, his comments on Dreamer's first post, and his attempt to generate content at the same time as defending himself. Yes, his cases are still shitty, though, but I guess you can't ask for everything.

Reading through my notes, what stood out to me most was the new wagon on Diego, and all of the assorted satellite conversations. Understandably, the empty unvote was concerning--especially after the passion he'd been portraying from the start; I certainly felt so as well. But it feels like the pendulum is swinging too far on the backlash. Blindly hopping onto the first major infraction of the day and refusing to let go is a folly too oft repeated. Let's continue to explore other avenues. Everyone needs to step up to the game and interact, myself included (empty platitude I know, but still true.)

=======================

(I was going to try to type out a more traditional Balpost, but I got distracted and /effort/, so I'm just going to copy/paste some of my notes from my thoughtspad that I've been keeping. I did add a couple elaborations on them to make them a little more fit for public consumption, but honestly, it's still embarrassingly inadequate. Still, if I don't post this, I'll never get anything live before I fall asleep.)

yoloswag is explanationless wagonpiling, keep an eye on. --re post 133

Mancer 137 says I, Bal, "never stated my opinion on [izhuark and Diego's] exchange". Presumably by which he means the content. Which was silly and dumb on the one hand, and grasping and overbearing on the other. Based on his New Arkham play compared to this one, I literally cannot comprehend a scum!Izhuark barring new evidence. That was true when I made my first post, and it remains true now. I'm holding off elaborating on many things Diego related, so as to not offer up potential ammunition for him to mount a defense. Speaking of his defense, I'd like him to cover Green Poet's #2 in her 138 (a very eloquent and concise summary of the case, imo) as well as when Proto pointed out the awkward juxtaposition of the "slightest risk not being worth it" in comparison to his previous posturing.

Dreamer's #140 is dumb. Everyone makes mistakes, even/especially on day one. Even/especially if they've got a lot of games under their belt. Refusal to vote is annoying. Sure it's the first day, but ya'll gotta vote sometime. We don't come to majority consensus, we all lose. Better to start hashing things out early.

Mancer's reply to Dreamer is good. Cannot complain

Corinthian makes an existence post, parrots the prevailing opinions of the times/votals (i.e. scum diego/mancer). Little in the way of thought on any other target.

Refa does have a point that my arguement on how best to handle Izhuark was running off the premise of Town!Izhuark. Well, yeah, duh! Refa mentions he also asked Izhuark to confirm/deny, wonders why Mancer stood out more to me, I should answer this. --Okay Refa, compare the volume of the cries for clarification if you will at the current time. You made one grudging concession that "he should clarify whether or not his claim is a joke, though, since it seems to be confusing some people" while on the other hand it felt like the majority of Mancer's content, and certainly the driving force behind his case at the time. The matter's mostly moot now anyway, but I answer questions that are directed at me because it helps produce content, I get annoyed when other people ignore things addressed to them, and it's just good policy.

Yolo's one-liner 148 is hard to draw an opinion from. Could easily be being made from any starting intent, town or anti. Minimal content, looking busy, ignores things specifically addressed to them from earlier. Not happy.

Mancer changes his mind again, goes after Proto. Not a move I'd expect from scum when several others were offering mild (non-voting) support to his case on Gaius.

Izhuark 151 on Mancer "Your are clearly not buddying [Diego] but your position toward him seem exacly like the one you critized gaius for plus the fact that your content on him after the gaius vote were pretty obvious points that were already made beforehand by refa. Overall i like the fact that you ask a lot of questions but all your cases and defense post seem interested and planed more than genuine." Legit.

Tiny provides nothing but the conventional wisdom of the hour, disappointed. :(

Dreamer 156: "Scums are not going to vote on each other on D1". Confirmed for newbie or scum.

=============

And now, to try to further things, I do a little looking at some of our quietest members (J was ignored for being J and giving nothing to work with, and I don't have a firm handle on Yolo, but can sort of maybe see where they're coming from. Clarinets and Rapier completely fail to exist, and so are also excluded, along with Gilgamesh who was RVS only... well crap, all these non-posters make up practically half the game-- says the resident of a glass house who is currently too engaged in throwing stones to notice any trace of hypocrisy...), and find one I dislike enough to try a new vote, to give them that kick to the rear they need to get into action.

Of the (nearly) contentless posters, I like Corithian the least. Tiny had a bit of elaboration/original thought in her presentation, and even Dreamer (who reeks of first timer atm, no offense) is pulling useful points back into play from what she read earlier in the thread.

Let's play eliminate the fluff.

Corinthian:

If i had to go I'd have to go with Deigo, followed by Mancer. Deigo has certainly done more scummy things, with a lot of suspicion on him for his rather sudden izuhark change, and as for mancer, I'm getting a scumread. One of the things I would like to know is the reasoning behind Swags mancer vote, since, well, there isn't any given.

(Little to no analysis, synthesis, or original thought. Ick)

Tiny:

Would not consider voting Izuhark. Yeah, drawing attention to himself is bad, but[...] Don't find anything scummy with roleclaiming early; even if his role is bad and he's telling the truth. His claim seems to be pretty genuine, however odd and random as it may be.

[Mancer] wants to get more information[...] but I still don't feel any bad vibes from him.

[Diego's] unvote seems to be from a lack of confidence. If he really wanted to make an impression, then he should have other cases to worry about and be voting for them instead of backing away and leaving us in the dark without a lead to follow. Also I don't like how he's telling investigative roles to scan Izuhark because of what he says his role tells him to do. However seeing that he wanted to get out of the RVS, I can get what he's saying slightly.

(Okay, so... very much paraphrasing what other people have been discussing, but there's a little more effort here, and it covers a broader base.)

Dreamer:

I don't think [Diego] is more scummy than any other player for this moment.

Refa is sharp. She was the first to mention Diego's unvote. If Diego is scum, than that would mean that she is town or a third party. Scums are not going to vote on each other on D1.

Mancer is neutral. I just think he tries to get a lot of information.

Green Poet is neutral i guess. I wonder what she currently thinks of Izhuark. In her first post she stated that she was going to read through his previous games. In het last post she voted for Diego, without even mentioning what she thought of Izhuark.

(Emphasis mine. A fair bit of fresh content, some of it even good. Not including her vote, due to her giving no reasons for it, but I guess it was technically there.)

##Unvote

##Vote: The3rdCorinthian

Stop fooling around giving people quality nightmares, and give us quality interactions and content.

[Green Poet]

Diego has not yet been able to make a follow-up post for me to consider, so I'll be going over some other players of note.

Izuhark

After reading over his most recent two NOC ED1s, his Mafia Sucks Mafia and Ragnarok Online Mafia, it appears that he began MSM with a few sparse/possibly joking posts, even using the word "funny" in one post, as was noticeable in this game's ED1. He began ROM almost immediately on track to scumhunt, with no jokes or mentions of funniness.

In MSM he was scum, and in ROM, a town JoaT, a role which he did not claim throughout his time playing the game (Shin subbed in for him and claimed it before his D3 mislynch). In this game, we have him claiming JoaT day one, unprompted, with joke votes. I would say that, if we were to consider only the small sample size of these two prior games, we would arrive at the conclusion that Izuhark is most definitely scum in this game, because he has been exhibiting behavior that has been either preceded in his scum game, or avoided in his town game.

I am not voting Izuhark now, because (1) joking is not an example of inherently scum-motivated behavior, especially during ED1, and (2) I have not yet seen a response from Diego, so he remains my primary scum read.

Having read Izuhark's scum game in MSM to some length, I'll continue to watch his play and see if his content ends up being consistent with that or not.

Null slightly leaning scum until further elaborated.

Mancer

I said earlier that something felt off about Mancer's early reaction to Izuhark's responses, but I haven't been able to find or articulate what that is. I suppose it was a gut feeling and I don't have anything to corroborate it.

I like Mancer's Gaius vote. The reasoning is solid and aims to consider scum!Gaius' play against town!Gauis' play. Trying to compare others' perspectives, and the general act of focusing on others rather than oneself, reads as town-motivated to me.

There's also something constructive in his response to Proto: "Also, what part of my Gaius vote seems weird to you? Do you find it forced? Is the case weak?" This is town-motivated as well, as it welcomes scrutiny and only serves to bring himself and his cases into everyone else's viewpoint. It is counter-intuitive for scum to ask people to pick apart their cases, because sans bussing, those cases inherently contain flaws. Thus, Mancer is likely not scum, for he is risking exposing the faults in his cases at no tangible scum gain.

Currently townreading Mancer. I'll take a look at the cases of the people voting Mancer shortly, as I have deliberately avoided doing so yet and would like to see if they impact my own read now.

YOLOSWAG

This post is entirely insubstantial. It offers no thought on the Gaius vote and instead asks for others' input on it.

This begs the question of why he is not at least sheeping this case and voting Gaius, himself. Yoloswag's current vote is his RVS (I'm assuming this) vote on Mancer, which has not been retracted for any expressed reason.

There's not enough content from him to discern whether this inactivity is scum-motivated or not, but the "Is this Gaius vote legitimate?" question seems scummy to me. At best, it sits as a passive post, and at worst, it invites others to scumhunt for him.

Null leaning scum (more so than Izuhark).

Dreamer

This post seems to be a summary of the cases on Izuhark. While reading this, the particular choice of the word "mistake" jumped out at me - I thought it was an odd word to use since Diego never explicitly conceded that he had made a "mistake." For his early pushes against Izuhark to be considered a mistake, Izuhark would have to be confirmed or implied town, prompting Diego to back off the case and admit the mistake. But Diego simply said that he felt his actions had been rash, not wrong.

It's a leap of assumption that I'm curious about. Dreamer, what exactly made you say that Diego made a "mistake"? What do you think constitutes this mistake?

Those who've read my Diego case can probably guess where I'm hoping to go with this question, if the answer pans out in a particular way.

Back to Dreamer herself - the summary post isn't very alignment-indicative to me, and I'm not entirely satisfied with how her next post puts a placeholder vote on Bal. Her indecision is understandable, as I remember hesitating to vote anyone when I had no scum reads in my earliest games for fear of guessing incorrectly, so I do not see this as scum-motivated. I also imagine that scum!Dreamer would have been advised by her scumbuddies to conjure up even a weak case on someone in order to appear contributory, as a basic beginners' rule.

If Dreamer were more experienced, I'd say it'd be too gutsy to make content posts and yet claim to be too hesitant to vote, but this seems to be Dreamer's first game, so I can't say for sure if I would apply this line of thinking.

Null, and I would like to see further posts, as well as an answer to my question.

[Mitsuki]

Clarinets has been prodded

[Mitsuki]

Hint: Some people rolled scum! [Votals 2]

Diego (4): Izhuark, Refa, Green Poet, Corinthian
Mancer (2): Yoloswag, Gaius
Balcerzak (1): Dreamer
Corinthian (1): Balcerzak
Proto (1): Mancer
Tiny Goddess (1): Gilgamesh

37 hours until Batman's Wedding! It takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

Sorry for the inactivity folks, I was going to post yesterday, but I fell like a rock after I got home from the gym. I am going to post my general thoughts and reads on the game so far after I come out of work tonight. I do have to say Diego is my biggest scum feel, while I feel good about Bal and Mancer.

##Unvote

[Refa]

Pictured above: This mafia game.

[Mitsuki]

The3rdCorinthian needs a replacement. Contact the mods if you want to replace in!

[Refa]

who else finds this legitimate?

Would sheep your Gaius case.

Seriously, I don't get what's wrong with Mancer's LG case (you should also explain your reasoning behind your vote). Proto mentioned that it wasn't strong enough to hold a vote, but that's not refuting the case itself.

Lord Gaius, I can't speak for Mancer himself, but I'm going to explain where I'm coming from since I'm sheeping his case. What you describe is what I would consider leaving yourself open. I mean yeah, a neutral stance on a case isn't scummy in and of itself, but you were defending Mancer a decent amount and it was very jarring to see you had a null read over a town read on him; you didn't even have a problem with the cases on him, so your defense comes across as whiteknighting AND you're leaving yourself open to his lynch (I know I'm kind of defeating part of my argument here, but I don't have an issue with your Mancer vote itself), hence the scumread on you.

That being said, Mancer's Proto vote is...really bad. His defense is fine, but he's voting Proto because...he's making associative reads without flips. Okay, I can get that this is bad play, but why does it make Proto scum? This very much comes off as an OMGUS because he's frustrated at Proto casing him over a legitimate scumread. I don't see how you can consider Proto to be a stronger scumread than LG considering both of your cases.

Izhuark, what are your thoughts on other people? Honestly, the first time I read your post I was annoyed because you were only talking about the two biggest wagons but you actually did bring up some new points so yeah good job (in particular, your first reply to Diego and your second reply to Mancer). I'm still not 100% sure if I buy your motivation for making that claim but everything else points towards town, so...

Tiny, what are your thoughts on other players? You're in the same boat as Izhuark for me except it's less about the original points that you brought up (your cases aren't sheeped, but there's nothing in them that makes me think "wow, that's a good point I didn't think of") and moreso that your tone is the same as it was in the last game we played (AKA super indecisive, which ordinarily would be scummy but AAAAAAAAA you've done it before as town as well and it's actually really hard to get a good read off of; please have more definite opinions in the future).

Something about Dreamer's posting style bothers me. It's too...passive, like she's just watching the game from the sidelines without getting involved in herself. I get that she's a newer player (uh...right?), but this doesn't come across as how Newb!Town typically plays, waffling all over the place. She's just deliberately avoiding giving an opinion on almost anything, save for an associative read regarding me. I didn't comment on her earlier one because barely anything had happened and maybe she was busy or something; the latter shows that clearly she's been paying attention to the game and yet has no opinions or even thought process to speak of. Dreamer, if you had to say now, who are the two most likely people to flip town and scum? Bal vote was weird, but not alignment indicative...yet. If she was Diego's scumbuddy, I don't see why she'd waste time making a random vote when she could either 1) bus him or 2) vote Mancer*.

I'm a bit tired of reading ATM, so I'll get to Bal's and GP's posts later (caught up with everything else).

Diego > Dreamer > Lord Gaius > Mancer

(the points against Mancer are stronger than the ones on Dreamer/LG but I still think his reply to Bal was genuine as fuck and I'm not sure if he'd make such a reply as scum; I'd only lynch him today if noone else on my list was viable).

*Unless all three of them are scum, I guess

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

HAI GAIZ

lets lynch mancer n call it a day. his gaius push was pretty forced i dont believe someone would read the thread and think thatd b the best vote to make. then the way he switched his vote to proto and based it around how proto was treating him and his connection to diego made my stomach turn. mancers clearly concerned about himself in a way consistent with scum who has a self interest

past that i think theres at least 1 scum between diego and corinthian. the former for reasons said and the latter cuz i found his "lol guys i jus woke up *wagonhop*" post pretty grimy. it read like lazy scum hoppin in there regardless of diegos alignment and POSSIBLY for a bus if the scumteam gave up on wiggling out of a diego lynch. so he looks gross either way

mancer followed by corinthian then diego

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@mitsuki

can you please consider putting nonvoters with the votals?

[ZoesMad]

I still heart you < 3

Catching up on everything now. So I apologize for my lateness...

Would not consider voting Izuhark. Yeah, drawing attention to himself is bad, but there has to be a reason why he's doing it, plus with his, uh 'humor' if his role is as he says. Don't find anything scummy with roleclaiming early; even if his role is bad and he's telling the truth. His claim seems to be pretty genuine, however odd and random as it may be. Eh, but that information could be used against him. That said, I don't get the wagon on Izuhark. It was just because he was attempting to post in a humorous manner, which is annoying, but eh.

Mancer seems to be a bit iffy, but his case isn't that much to nitpick about. He probably wants to get more information, which can be either an advantage or disadvantage on both sides, but I still don't feel any bad vibes from him.

Diego seems to be the one I'm the most mildly concerned about. His unvote seems to be from a lack of confidence. If he really wanted to make an impression, then he should have other cases to worry about and be voting for them instead of backing away and leaving us in the dark without a lead to follow. Also I don't like how he's telling investigative roles to scan Izuhark because of what he says his role tells him to do. However seeing that he wanted to get out of the RVS, I can get what he's saying slightly. Getting a slight bad gut feeling. His vote was a little silly, that's all.

Getting null on other players.

The problem with this is that it feels like one giant null read, with a lot of nothing in the middle. Kind of like scum!Eury vibes if you know what I mean. It's bits and parts of what other people have said and in the end there's no clear conclusion as there isn't a vote. Mild scum read here, need something more substantial from her.

I'm a little less worried about Dreamer because her play just reminds me of very cautious town from another place I used to play at. She also is explicitly saying that she wants to wait longer to give her opinion (which I don't agree with but at least she said it.)

Seriously, I don't get what's wrong with Mancer's LG case (you should also explain your reasoning behind your vote). Proto mentioned that it wasn't strong enough to hold a vote, but that's not refuting the case itself.

Lord Gaius, I can't speak for Mancer himself, but I'm going to explain where I'm coming from since I'm sheeping his case. What you describe is what I would consider leaving yourself open. I mean yeah, a neutral stance on a case isn't scummy in and of itself, but you were defending Mancer a decent amount and it was very jarring to see you had a null read over a town read on him; you didn't even have a problem with the cases on him, so your defense comes across as whiteknighting AND you're leaving yourself open to his lynch (I know I'm kind of defeating part of my argument here, but I don't have an issue with your Mancer vote itself), hence the scumread on you.

That being said, Mancer's Proto vote is...really bad. His defense is fine, but he's voting Proto because...he's making associative reads without flips. Okay, I can get that this is bad play, but why does it make Proto scum? This very much comes off as an OMGUS because he's frustrated at Proto casing him over a legitimate scumread. I don't see how you can consider Proto to be a stronger scumread than LG considering both of your cases.

Like I explained to Mancer, when I posted my initial out of RVS post about how there were cases flying around that I didn't agree with but couldn't find scum intent behind, Mancer was included in that list. I'm not white knighting him at all, and that was also before he did the switch to Proto.

No problems with Bal's post, I found it quite good at giving his current opinoins on the game, while making reads on those with little content. Would appreciate some reads on some of the more talked about wagons.

YOLO any townreads? Or something other than pushing the two most heavily pursued players in the game rn? For meta reasons i'm inclined to go gut town because he's generally more careful when he's playing as scum and more image conscious, rather than pretty free flowing (Thousand Names is a good example.) Content is a strict null.

Scum: Mancer>Diego>TG

More coming later.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

i may have more on the kill list when i read again tomorrow. but gimme a break bro ONE person has suggested a corinthian lynch besides me

i dont do townreads doe

[Vhaltz]

Sniper Knight replaces in for The3rdCorinthian

[Refa]

Sorry, in addition to being busier around this time I'm also getting demotivated because the person I'm voting hasn't posted. I'll get around to reading all of the other posts, but I've only read LG's post so far.

Like I explained to Mancer, when I posted my initial out of RVS post about how there were cases flying around that I didn't agree with but couldn't find scum intent behind, Mancer was included in that list. I'm not white knighting him at all, and that was also before he did the switch to Proto.

YOLO any townreads? Or something other than pushing the two most heavily pursued players in the game rn? For meta reasons i'm inclined to go gut town because he's generally more careful when he's playing as scum and more image conscious, rather than pretty free flowing (Thousand Names is a good example.) Content is a strict null.

Again, it's fine that there are cases you don't agree with but can't find the scum intent behind, but you were actively defending him. Here, let me pull up some quotes from your ISO.

@Bal and YOLO I think Mancer was also part of the initial "get tf out of RVS" phase of the game and his case shouldn't get picked apart as much.

Uh...and that's it. Fuck, could've sworn there was more. Okay, in retrospect I'm really blowing this out of proportion, so my bad on that one. It still bothers me but it's more of a minor thing than an actual basis for a scumread. Dropping you out of my priority.

Also pet peeve but please don't ask people for townreads on D1. They're almost worthless and I've been making a conscious effort to not post mine (there are a few exceptions but that's because my reads on them have changed throughout the day).

[Mitsuki]

Clarinets (Supershyguy) needs a replacement. Contact Vhaltz or me if you want to replace in

I'm going to be very mad if more people sub out because they "don't feel like playing" so please don't do that. (Corinthian was busy, he's ok)

[Dreamer]

Green Poet: I think that you are one of the most interesting players. Let’s answer the question.

But Diego simply said that he felt his actions had been rash, not wrong.

It's a leap of assumption that I'm curious about. Dreamer, what exactly made you say that Diego made a "mistake"? What do you think constitutes this mistake?

Actually he did use the word.

As I said, we're early, so the early action I took of voting him was the mistake. Pressuring someone who has no problem dying never works. True, it could be a facade, but my position is that I'm not taking unnecesary risks, and thus, I unvoted him.

I proberly read it and used it to.

And if i’m correct over the meaning of the second sentence. I think that he was to fast convinced that he was right, but realised it wasn’t a very good move. So he tried te restore it and failed. And maybe that is going to kill him.

But can you tell me why you said this? Those who've read my Diego case can probably guess where I'm hoping to go with this question, if the answer pans out in a particular way.

This sentence just feels wrong. Just something that neither a town or a scum would say. But it still give me some scum vibes.

Balcerzak: I like his analyses. Just a general post, that don’t give me town or scum vibes, but I wonder how a balpost looks like. It doesn’t matter who is going to get nightkilled or lynced because he hasn’t a clear side yet ( there isn’t someone who he attacks or defends ). I wonder of his posts will stay that way.

YOLOSWAG: Confident. He really wants to lynch someone ( Mancer ) but called him the day before still “ligitimate”. I don’t like his attitude.

Formina Sage: His last post seems to be a bit overreacted wich suprised me. But i still like his analyses. For now I give him the benefit of the doubt.

MancerNecro: I’m fine with his questions. But I don’t think that they are town or scum. They can benefit both sides. But maybe that will change.

Refa: You give me those town vibes. You ask a lot of good questions. You have a lot of good arguments. I can’t find any reason to spend my vote on you.

Diego: Can you give a response, please?

Izhuark: I smiled. Maybe

Anyway. This is my current scum order.

Green Poet<<<<YOLOSWAG<<<<rest of the people here<<<<< the people who i didn't mention<<<<Refa

EDIT:

I should change my vote ##Unvote Balcerzak ##Vote Green poet

Edited November 25, 2015 by Dreamer