People preference Does Anybody still like Awakening more than Fates.

[DragonFlames]

This is also something that has bothered me, but I don't like bringing it up because it doesn't make for a very good argument. However, to me, Awakening feels like a passion project while Fates feels like a cold, calculated and slightly rushed product, especially in terms of the story. I mean, locking the true path behind a paywall is not exactly consumer friendly.

I can definitely agree with this sentiment. Now I finally know why Fates didn't feel as 'home-y' as Awakening did.

It is exactly how I feel about the most recent Pokémon games. They, too, lacked a certain passion (to me, at least) and felt cold and unwelcoming.

[BrightBow]

This is also something that has bothered me, but I don't like bringing it up because it doesn't make for a very good argument. However, to me, Awakening feels like a passion project while Fates feels like a cold, calculated and slightly rushed product, especially in terms of the story. I mean, locking the true path behind a paywall is not exactly consumer friendly.

Well, neither is making a non-linear game and then selling glorified cheat codes as DLC so you can actually keep playing. Awakening feels every bit as cynical in it's design as Fates to me. It's most certainly in the same ballpark if nothing else.

Also, messed up stuff like burning thousands of people to death for creepy player worship or implied rape for the fetish appeal are one thing, but I would expect from a "passion project" that it would actually respect the continuity of the game that it claims to be a sequel to. The setting of Akaneia isn't recognizable in the first place but the few things that supposedly tie into the old games... just don't. Most notable of course the Shield of Seals which apparently now does everything but sealing away the Earth Dragons. Also, the fact that dragons cannot reproduce anymore and are dying out is the origin of all the conflict in Akaneia, so it's kinda important. But it is completely disregarded just so that players can impregnate a hypersexualized redesign of Tiki (seriously, Nowi even has a crown like Tiki which makes no sense if she isn't meant to be royalty like her). It's almost like they only have the game take place in Akaneia so that they can show to everyone that they don't care about it. Either way, "cold" and "calculated" are most certainly adjectives I would use to describe this game.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BrightBow

[DarkDestr0yer61]

Also, messed up stuff like burning thousands of people to death for creepy player worship or implied rape for the fetish appeal are one thing

My memory of Awakening must be worse than I thought. When did either one of those things happen?

The only time I can remember an attempt to burn people alive is in Radiant Dawn where Micaiah attempts to burn Sanaki's army

[BrightBow]

My memory of Awakening must be worse than I thought. When did either one of those things happen?

The only time I can remember an attempt to burn people alive is in Radiant Dawn where Micaiah attempts to burn Sanaki's army

The burning people alive thing was in Chapter 14: Flames on the Blue. Not that I am surprised that you would forget about it. Radiant Dawn treated Micaiah's massburning as an utterly gruesome and cowardly act. Awakening only treats it as yet another opportunity to have the character praise Robin to the heavens and afterwards immediately forgets that it ever happened. In my case I was just way too shocked by the complete apathy towards human life shown by the writing in this chapter that I could ever forget about it.

And the implied rape is in the Robin x Tharja A support which ends on this beautiful line:

Tharja: Aw, how sweet. She's sleeping. Sleeping and...helpless. Hee hee hee hee!

And btw, just to show on other examples that Tharja isn't above using magic to exploit others or exploiting Robin in particular, there are several pieces of dialog which show that Tharja aims to rob Robin of her ability to consent.

When she picks up experience from a glowing spot: Tharja: Ah, finally, a perfect voodoo doll. Robin will have eyes only for me…

When she picks up a support boast with Robin: Tharja: You look happy today, Robin. Fallen victim to a certain someone's curse?

And it's probably also worth mentioning the Virion support where she uses an enchantment to force him to do her bidding.

Edit: And I forgot about her solo ending: Tharja's jealous obsession with Robin never subsided, even after her return to Plegia. Anecdotal evidence suggests she devoted most of her effort to hexes and curses that might reunite them.

Not that it should matter, the implication of rape is there either way. But I figured it helps to put into perspective just how strong and deliberate the implication is. And honestly, that experience quote alone should be enough to call Tharja a rapist.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BrightBow

[Alandrage]

I'd just assume the argument of rape or general sexual assault was a given on the fact that the game basically gives you a free pass to make an entire cast of characters fall in love with you and bear you a moeblob child - a cast that includes the aformentioned dragon loli and her daughter (Nowi and Nah), two shotas mages (Ricken and Henry), two giant rabbit-people (Panne and Yarne), a clutzy meek prostitute (Olivia), a swordsman with a pathological fear of women (Lon'qu), a complete neurotic wreck perpeually enamored with somebody else (Cordelia), a world-conquering maniac (Walhart), and a victim of permanent brain-damage who can barely even speak. (Emmeryn)

Edited August 18, 2016 by Alandrage

[TheWerdna]

I still feel Fates is worse since at least Awakening gave me a complete game and didn't hold over half the story hostage behind a DLC wall.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TheWerdna

[The Geek]

I still feel Fates is worse since at least Awakening gave me a complete game and didn't hold over half the story hostage behind a DLC wall.

You call it putting half the story behind a pay wall. I call it three games for the price of two.

I honestly don't care about Awakening or Fates' stories. After the first playthrough I just skip all cutscenes. That leaves supports, gameplay, and music. I haven't gotten enough of Fates' supports to really judge them against Awakening's, Fates beats Awakening into the ground in terms of gameplay, and Fates wins in the music department as its soundtrack isn't just a bunch of variations on two songs.

*disclaimer: despite my vitriol I still like Awakening, I just like Fates better*

[BrightBow]

I still feel Fates is worse since at least Awakening gave me a complete game and didn't hold over half the story hostage behind a DLC wall.

That's fair. It's just that I don't see how Awakening was made with an entirely different mindset from Fates, you know.

Edited August 18, 2016 by BrightBow

[TheSilentChloey]

You call it putting half the story behind a pay wall. I call it three games for the price of two.

I honestly don't care about Awakening or Fates' stories. After the first playthrough I just skip all cutscenes. That leaves supports, gameplay, and music. I haven't gotten enough of Fates' supports to really judge them against Awakening's, Fates beats Awakening into the ground in terms of gameplay, and Fates wins in the music department as its soundtrack isn't just a bunch of variations on two songs.

*disclaimer: despite my vitriol I still like Awakening, I just like Fates better*

I fail to see how you can say that. You do realise that unless you had the 150+ dollars for the special edition PRE ORDER (which wasn't even worth that much even with the art book etc) and the 20+ dollars for DLC all you have left is two incomplete games that focused soley on gameplay and not characters/story, if at all, now if they had more to the stories of Birthright and Conquest with Revelation adding a little bit, I for one wouldn't have minded that much and might have actually enjoyed the games more. That said I still have some work to do in Awakening so there is that for me.

[The Geek]

I fail to see how you can say that. You do realise that unless you had the 150+ dollars for the special edition PRE ORDER (which wasn't even worth that much even with the art book etc) and the 20+ dollars for DLC all you have left is two incomplete games that focused soley on gameplay and not characters/story, if at all, now if they had more to the stories of Birthright and Conquest with Revelation adding a little bit, I for one wouldn't have minded that much and might have actually enjoyed the games more. That said I still have some work to do in Awakening so there is that for me.

$150? Where do you get your numbers from? I got mine for $80. And most of the DLC is just fluff, the only story-based ones being Hidden Truths and Not!Future Past, so your numbers are a little off there too.

And my entire point was that I didn't care one bit for either game's story so the rest of your post I'll just chalk up to differences in what we prioritize in qualifying a game as good or bad.

Also, three games. Not two. Special Edition nets you Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation.

It's been six months and I'm still not done with my first playthrough of all the routes and I'm itching to do a second playthrough of Conquest once I'm done with summer classes so I'd say I definitely got my money's worth.

[TheWerdna]

If the stories were more self contained I would say the multiple games idea holds water. But as it stands so many plot threads are introduced in each route which are only ever resolved in others (generally in revelations) so that if you want to get the full story you have to play all three. And like a sucker I did just that, but that doesn't mean it feels good to do that. Heck, its worse tgat they then hold the plotthread of the identity of Corrin's father and the reason why the Awakening trio are in the game behind another DLC wall.

[shadowofchaos]

I fail to see how you can say that. You do realise that unless you had the 150+ dollars for the special edition PRE ORDER

You know, I realized that ever since you made that claim earlier in the thread blaming the game for something that was your fault, that there's no point dealing with your arguments most of the time...

But I'll say that you exaggerate a lot of your points considering you just more than doubled the price.

It was 79.99.

If you got it for 150, that's not the game's fault. It's yours for getting ripped off.

Again, you're making the people that like Awakening more like me, look bad.

You just literally told someone who thinks 80 bucks for all three paths was a good deal how to feel about their purchase because you might have paid more unnecessarily, or are just spouting out a random unrealistic number for a purchase of a game to make your point more viable.

You need to review your fact checking skills.

Edited August 18, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Moblin Major General]

I can forgive Flames on the Blue because it was against an army larger and more aggressive than Daein, Dolhr, Grannvale, and Grado combined. They are shown to be ruthless combatants, and by the way the suicide ships exploded, the pressure wave would've killed most of the soldiers and horses instantly, compared to throwing fire magic on oil, which would've caused a slow death either by burning or smoke inhalation. Also, with the Tharja A support, she could've done anything to them. But she didn't, because Robin wasn't asleep.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I don't even hate Awakening, most of the people hear make me want to hate it.

[Vascela]

I like Fates' gameplay and story more than Awakening. But I can't find any motivation to play Fates (haven't finished any of the campaigns and I started on day 1). Don't know why I won't clock the hundreds of hours on Fates that I did with Awakening.

[Thane]

Well, neither is making a non-linear game and then selling glorified cheat codes as DLC so you can actually keep playing. Awakening feels every bit as cynical in it's design as Fates to me. It's most certainly in the same ballpark if nothing else.

Like I said, it's not a very solid argument because it's arguably even more subjective than discussing plot preferences, which is why I don't bring it up very often.

To me, however, Awakening and Fates don't even come close. There are three different versions, yet one of them is definitive and is locked behind a paywall. You've got two identical sets of siblings so as to not lose out on either side which dillutes the overall impact of the "choice", there's far more fan service and player worshipping in the game, and so on. I also vastly prefer Awakening's DLC to Fates, and even if you dislike how Awakening handled it, surely you can't deny that the way they handled Revelation is worse.

Again, you're making the people that like Awakening more like me, look bad.

Soccy, my man, we're not a hive mind; another's words and actions don't reflect poorly on you because you happen to enjoy the same video game. We all know you're a stand up guy.

That might not mean much coming from Fates' most dedicated basher (in terms of story anyway), but I like to think I occasionally make valid points.

I like Fates' gameplay and story more than Awakening. But I can't find any motivation to play Fates (haven't finished any of the campaigns and I started on day 1). Don't know why I won't clock the hundreds of hours on Fates that I did with Awakening.

This is just speculation, but it might be because you just get a bit tired of it after playing through three campaigns. There's also the fact that there's less of a reason to train up your units in Fates since you use different units for the DLC.

[Alandrage]

Personally, having to grind forever in both 13 and 14 have made me never want to play a Fire Emblem game ever again.

Which is annoying, because all I ever feel like replaying is Fire Emblem.

[The Geek]

Like I said, it's not a very solid argument because it's arguably even more subjective than discussing plot preferences, which is why I don't bring it up very often.

y), but I like to think I occasionally make valid points.

This is just speculation, but it might be because you just get a bit tired of it after playing through three campaigns. There's also the fact that there's less of a reason to train up your units in Fates since you use different units for the DLC.

I know I can't speak for them, but personally I've had the same problem where I'm not as frantic in my playing of Fates as I was with Awakening. However, I'd attribute this more to the difference in how much free time I have now compared to when Awakening came out (for reference: Junior in University versus Senior in High School).

Though there is some merit in fatigue from playing all three routes. Then again, I think I got fatigued from Awakening after three back to back playthroughs as well.

[Vascela]

I haven't even touched Rev, sadly. Although it is true I played Awakening in HS and am playing Fates in Uni. Still, I find myself replaying and spending more time in Sacred Stones (did 0% growths for it), and FE4 (with the "new" translation patch). I have like 40 unplayed Fates chapters that I """"want"""" to play. Somewhat scared the only motivation of playing Fates for me would be like an Apo2.

[shadowofchaos]

Personally, having to grind forever in both 13 and 14 have made me never want to play a Fire Emblem game ever again.

Which is annoying, because all I ever feel like replaying is Fire Emblem.

But neither of them ever require grinding.

Like, by design, all FE games are beatable without grinding.

Now if you mean, PvP then you're faulting it for an optional thing.

Edited August 18, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Emerson]

But neither of them ever require grinding.

Agreed.

Doesn't mean I've done a full playthrough of 13 without grinding. I got halfway through and got bored since I'd been playing it way too much.

[Captain Karnage]

I still will say that Conquest is the best out of the bunch just from gameplay and map design alone

[The DanMan]

But neither of them ever require grinding.

Like, by design, all FE games are beatable without grinding.

Now if you mean, PvP then you're faulting it for an optional thing.

I found in Awakening that, if you aren't running a super optimal team, grinding is kinda enforced on hard mode and above. There's flat maps and buttloads of equally-leveled enemies in the latter parts; either you tank them all or they chip one of your units to death. That's just my experience, though.

[TheSilentChloey]

You know, I realized that ever since you made that claim earlier in the thread blaming the game for something that was your fault, that there's no point dealing with your arguments most of the time...

But I'll say that you exaggerate a lot of your points considering you just more than doubled the price.

It was 79.99.

If you got it for 150, that's not the game's fault. It's yours for getting ripped off.

Again, you're making the people that like Awakening more like me, look bad.

You just literally told someone who thinks 80 bucks for all three paths was a good deal how to feel about their purchase because you might have paid more unnecessarily, or are just spouting out a random unrealistic number for a purchase of a game to make your point more viable.

You need to review your fact checking skills.

It was $150 AUD which is accurate given that the Australian dollar was buying not as much American dollars at the time of perchasing the game so my figures are actually accurate, for my country at the time I bought my game as a pre order special edition with all the bells and whistles attached (theme code, art book, metal case etc). And the DLC was more than 20 dollars as well because I got the pack dlc. A cost of which might have been less than getting the dlc maps seperately.

Also since when did I? Nothing I say or do refects on you so just drop the whinging. It shouldn't matter what other people do, unless you have thin ass skin and can't take people being differently minded so much so that you have to attack them.

And I don't need to review my facts because I still have the recipt.

[shadowofchaos]

You were implying that the dollar amount was ridiculous to pay for a game.

You were clearly trying to make a point of reference.

150 AUD might be accurate for you, but the value you put behind that with your words was still exaggerating.

Considering you failed to create a proper point of reference for the person you were trying to convince paid a ridiculous amount for a preorder.

If it wasn't clear enough from the population of the forum, if you don't make it clear that you're talking about something other than US dollars, you were creating a huge gap of reference for other people in terms of the VALUE of that item they bought.

80 US dollars is the price of two 3DS games.

And they consider getting 3 games for the price of 2.

So, again, what was your point to make for them?

Is this somehow a point against Fates?

Like, seriously, I'm a guy that likes Awakening more than If/Fates, and you're making me look like a Fates White Knight.

And I don't need to review my facts because I still have the recipt.

You got ripped off.

FYI: Fates Special Edition was 99 AUD MSRP pre-order for Australia.

https://m.reddit.com/r/3DS/comments/3yeawe/australia_only_instore_preorder_for_fire_emblem/

http://m.play-asia.com/fire-emblem-fates-special-edition/13/70a005

Guess what, according to research (OH MY, FACT CHECKING) Australian shops upped the price to 129 AUD as was shown on EB games then probably to your current 150 AUD is because of exchange rates.

That is exclusively Australian shops fault.

If you were trying to make a point to a person for which the value of THEIR purchase was being called into question... the burden is on YOU to research a fact properly from their point of reference.

All you said was 150 dollars.

Which is a RIDICULOUS claim for the person, who happens to reside in the US.

The misunderstanding is partly on yourself.

I fail to see how you can say that. You do realise that unless you had the 150+ dollars for the special edition PRE ORDER (which wasn't even worth that much even with the art book etc) and the 20+ dollars for DLC all you have left is two incomplete games that focused soley on gameplay and not characters/story, if at all, now if they had more to the stories of Birthright and Conquest with Revelation adding a little bit, I for one wouldn't have minded that much and might have actually enjoyed the games more. That said I still have some work to do in Awakening so there is that for me.

Your statement devalues the worth of the game.

Unless I'm mistaken, most people here have the standard value as the US dollar when discussing "paywalls" and "not worth buying".

Plenty of people here have problems with FE14 that I accept.

The difference is, they don't use completely personal reasons only they can relate to and actually use logical justification for said opinion.

For example: In an earlier post you were ranting at how people couldn't accept your opinion. It's *MY* opinion, you emphisized. Yes, but you are also posting on a medium of discussion. If you just want no criticism of your statements, you should make a blog.

None of my posts have been attacks you or anyone else. Only on how your statements are completely emotional and personal based. That it somehow revolves around your personal experiences.

Your notorious post, for example, regarding your accident and blaming the game... there is no room for discussion there. Your opinion that it's the game's fault isn't logical. At the same time, your devaluing of the game's prices towards someone else at the forum and assuming they know the value of AUD when you just say "dollar" has no logical progression.

If you can't take nitpicking at your statements on a forum for discussion, then you're the one that has thin skin.

Fates is crap in certain aspects.

But certainly not for the reasons you state.

Edited August 19, 2016 by shadowofchaos