More Unpopular Fire Emblem Opinions

[henrymidfields]

I'm not even bothered by the Blood Pact for how it affects Micaiah's story because even if it didn't exist, the story would still work. Instead of the Blood Pact it could just be Begnion threatening to reoccupy Daein if Daein doesn't support their war effort.

Fates isn't just hindered by it's plot devices, you NEED the dumb plot devices for the plot to happen the way it does. For Kamui to invade Hoshido and for it to be framed as a good thing, you need:

[spoiler=Conquest]

1. The curse which prevents Kamui from telling anyone why he's doing what he does.

2. A magic orb that exists exclusively to reveal Garon as a goo monster instead of the human monster everyone else can see, and shatters before anyone else can see it.

3. A magic throne that exists exclusively to reveal goo monsters that Hoshido keeps in their final castle.

4. Iago not having a day job and relentlessly monitoring you so you definitely can't go against Garon.

5. Azura witholding critical information about the true enemy

And the final piece, Kamui, a lord so spineless and narrow-minded that he can't even consider the idea of NOT invading Hoshido, or working around the curse and finding a way to reveal the truth to his siblings BEFORE he conquers his homeland/kills his blood family.

It's just... so many layers of dumb.

I kind of wonder why they couldn't just make Nohr having to fight to obtain some Hoshido's fertile lands (or at least persuade Hoshido to not close off its trade (for its food) to Nohr like seclusion-era Japan did) and ultimately, Nohr's survival. Concentrating on that alone would be a much better reason to invade Hoshido. And have Revelation revealing Anakos's curse behind Nohr's infertile lands...

As for Tellius, while I don't know that story 100%, could the Blood Pact be a tool that Begnion employed to further guarantee Daein's obedience, just in case some of the Daein people got wise with how they deal with Begnion, and say, abuse loopholes or otherwise secretly sabotage Begnion's war efforts?

Edited July 14, 2016 by henrymidfields

[Augestein]

Many stupid plot devices < (Worse) A forced plot device.

Honestly, I felt like RD has a different style of problem than Fates though. It's problem is that it's all over the place, and has serious pacing issues (both gameplay and storywise IMO). RD has a clunky part 1 which kind of makes for a lackluster start from PoR, as it's not really necessary to actually play as Micaiah for any point of the plot to be expanded upon. All it serves really is to try to make you feel "sorry" for Daein, but the plot goes by so fast that it's truly difficult to actually feel *anything* for the characters or situations really. In 10 chapters, Micaiah basically does what Ike did in about a third of the time. I understand that the plot doesn't need to develop as many things, but some of that from PoR served to help develop the characters, situations, and drive the narrative a bit more. Considering that Daein is the country we spend the least amount of time learning about, I feel this is especially bad. Part 2 is interesting, and has decent writing, but is marred by its complete lack of relevance to the main plot-- something that used to be reserved for Gaidens in earlier games so I'm not sure why they changed that idea here (and by that virtue actually makes it quite terrible from a plot perspective). It also serves as a very clunky transition to part 3 where an age old problem is dreaded up to be the motivations for why anything is happening (seriously, didn't Sanaki already apologize on the behalf of her country for this atrocity? Perhaps I need to play the game to remember exactly why, but the reasoning I remember was incredibly flimsy to WAGE WAR over when we've already had the apostle herself make an actual apology and be forgiven for the crimes of her country). It introduces an absolutely idiotic plot device that they try to explain but it only brings up more questions than answers, and part 4 doesn't actually truly resolve the conflicts that occurred earlier outside of simply handwaving them away. It also retroactively makes a silly reason that the Medallion didn't activate in PoR and really lowers the stakes to hilariously low levels when you think about it as well.

With Fates, the biggest offenders of the plot can pretty much come down to one thing: Azura/Aqua. The throne is kind of weird, and that should have been better explained-- or not done at all, but it's in my opinion, a plot that's okay that's bogged down with some stupid aspects. The dragonstone she's carrying that just so happens to be useful for Corrin (why does she have this? Can she turn into a dragon too? Could her mother turn into one? The orb she has? Again her. ) I suppose it depends on HOW you look at Fates being bad that makes it more or less offensive to some. Long story short, for me, Fates is a straight shooter story told poorly and Radiant Dawn is a winding path story told poorly.

As for Tellius, while I don't know that story 100%, could the Blood Pact be a tool that Begnion employed to further guarantee Daein's obedience, just in case some of the Daein people got wise with how they deal with Begnion, and say, abuse loopholes or otherwise secretly sabotage Begnion's war efforts?

Honestly, it's never really made clear what exactly the blood pact is capable of doing. People that leave Daein are apparently immune to its effects. As seen by Jill and Zihark leaving potentially.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The way I see it, when you consider her memory loss... can we really say that Emmeryn is still alive?

I would go as far as saying that Emmeryn did indeed died, in a sense. What Chrom and company later encounter... is not his sister. Merely a shell that looks like her. Add that her ending states she never recovered her memories, then to me, it does not make the impact of her previous actions any less. Because the way I look at it, they were never undone. Emmeryn never came back, they just find her body, still alive, but she herself is gone.

I think this would have been ok if the game bloody acknowledged that. It kinda doesnt, and the fact you can marry her and have a wee Morgs with her in that state is just...well quite frankly, if i wasnt ALREADY grossed the fuck out by this character, I AM NOW. :|

[Harvey]

I don't know if this is something that can be said here, but I feel that Fire Emblem is the best way to play TRPG games.

I don't care how great FFT or TO are, FE just does it better and it makes the genre more fun.

[UNLEASH IT]

I don't know if this is something that can be said here, but I feel that Fire Emblem is the best way to play TRPG games.

I don't care how great FFT or TO are, FE just does it better and it makes the genre more fun.

It's the varied objectives, imo. For most of the isometric TRPG's, the chapter goals are either to kill everyone or kill the leader. In FE, you have seize, defend/survive, escape, kill x in y number of turns, etc. in addition to the rout and defeat the commander. Which is why I really disliked Awakening.

Let me just add my unpopular opinions here:

• The moment FE games allowed you to purchase weapons between each chapter instead of only during certain chapters, weapon durability went from being a major tactical consideration to a minor inconvenience and therefore its removal in Fates was justified.
• PoR would have been the most balanced game in the series if it didn't have full Canto. However, because of full Canto, it's almost as unbalanced as FE4
• I don't find the quality of characters from older games to be better than the ones from Awakening and Fates. They're at the same level imo.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Chad Thundercock

[CervusOpimusSilvae]

Meg is the best knight in the series.

[Troykv]

PoR would have been the most balanced game in the series if it didn't have full Canto. However, because of full Canto, it's almost as unbalanced as FE4

So, you would like that the game has the GBA-Canto? (Only works with no combative/support commands).

I agree anyway, the Canto after combat is a really powerful skill.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Troykv

[UNLEASH IT]

So, you would like that the game has the GBA-Canto? (Only works with no combative/support commands).

I agree anyway, the Canto after combat is a really powerful skill.

Yeah. PoR took a step forward in unit balancing by limiting Cavaliers to one weapon in their unpromoted class, but they took 600 steps back by including full Canto in the game.

[Topaz Light]

Unpopular opinions, huh? Alrighty, here we go:

• I think Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light's retroactive peculiarities compared to the rest of the series are not annoying in the slightest (well, for the most part; I'm looking at you, lack of visible movement ranges and proper Trading) and have actually become its cool distinguishing gameplay features that make it worth checking out. As well, I think that some ideas it had—like giving Knights two weapon types—were actually fairly interesting, even if it was really wonky in a lot of ways. Also I wish Kaga didn't have that bizarre vendetta against Axes because Barst is a beast
• As an addendum to this, I actually enjoy Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light more than its DS remake, because, after playing the NES original, I feel like Shadow Dragon's updating the mechanics to match modern Fire Emblem games ultimately just made it feel like just about the most generic Fire Emblem game imaginable. Blade of Light's eccentricities, I feel, make it a delightfully-fresh experience by comparison.
• Gaiden's world map, battle, and general game progression/exploration setup was actually really neat and I'd love to see it refined and its potential explored more, as opposed to the modified/watered-down versions of it present in Sacred Stones and Awakening. (Although Awakening absolutely had the right idea with how it handled moving from map point to map point)
• I don't think it's necessary to discount the NES Fire Emblem games in order to state that the 3DS Fire Emblem games have some of the absolute worst armor designs in the entire series, but maybe I'm still just bitter that the Great Knight's armor design went from being pretty cool looking in Sacred Stones to being just an absolute abomination against the tenets of good character design in Awakening and Fates. Except Frederick and Gunter's suits of armor. Why couldn't all 3DS Great Knights dress like them? Also, inner thigh windows on female riders. Don't do that.
• However, a good number of the non-armored outfit designs from the 3DS Fire Emblem games are actually pretty decent.
• While I think Awakening's and Fates' soundtracks are both pretty good in terms of individual songs, as cohesive wholes that mesh with the rest of the game, I find them kind of lacking, especially Fates'. Leitmotif isn't used nearly as effectively as it could be (although admittedly Awakening does it a bit better); the game's main theme is just sorta spammed all over the place, and there aren't really any leitmotifs for specific characters, factions, or plot points.
• I am actually really not a fan of how Awakening and Fates do Skills. I strongly prefer how they worked in the Jugdral and Tellius games, where they were rarer and used to differentiate characters and classes, rather than being something every single character has in abundance.
• I think that Class Skills were a really good idea and opened up a great avenue for further means of differentiating and balancing classes.
• I think that Weapon Weight is fundamentally a good idea, and one I'm disappointed that Intelligent Systems more or less gave up on before really finding a good setup for it.
• I think that Fire Emblem's relative simplicity compared to other SRPGs was one of its biggest strengths as a series, and I don't think that it would be a good idea for the series to try to become more like those games in terms of complexity level. I'm not trying to say that Fire Emblem should be a "dumbed-down" SRPG; it's more that I think that it should be very wary to avoid becoming more complex simply for the sake of being more complex.
• I actually like random growth rates, and I think that, at most, Intelligent Systems should make Random/Fixed selectable at the start of a file (like the Classic/Casual dichotomy) rather than just making a full shift over to Fixed growths only.
• I think that Intelligent Systems should go back to just letting characters who fall in battle be dead instead of having them just "retreat" even in Classic mode, because writing alternate versions of scenes they'd appear in to accommodate for the characters being dead is just out of the question apparently.
• I really don't like the trend in the 3DS Fire Emblem games for the majority of characters you recruit to already be on your side—in service to the main character's nation, even!—and to simply take until Chapter Whatever to actually join the Lord's particular traveling group. It's worlds less interesting than encountering characters from all over the continent and earning their allegiance as you go. Maybe I only feel this way because I adored the sort of "ragtag company of warriors" feel to the parties you assembled in a lot of earlier Fire Emblem games, but I still feel like having the vast majority of your party members already be part of the same faction as you are before they join you isn't really very interesting.
• This also goes hand in hand with how almost every character in the 3DS games (do note the "almost") is super easy to recruit. I've mentioned this before, but it still bothers me. It just doesn't feel as cool to have a character in your team who doesn't require you to go out of your way to recruit!
• Even while acknowledging the objective merits of Jagens, I still never use them simply because it's more fun for me to go it without them.
• I think a Fire Emblem game set in a different setting and/or time period would actually be very interesting to see assuming they took the proper care in adapting the classes and concepts to the new backdrop.
• I really do not care for how the 3DS Fire Emblem games allow units to bypass the 20/20 level cap; I think it renders growth rates ultimately meaningless and that it encourages lowmanning since it's easy to raise characters up to a point where they're simply mechanically-invincible against anything and everything the game is going to throw at you for the next several chapters (or the rest of the game, depending on the difficulty level you're playing). Admittedly, Fates did do a fairly decent job of reducing this, but I'm still not fond of Eternal Seals, conceptually.
• I feel that FEDS-style Reclassing with FE3DS-style class sets would, at the very least, be a concept worth testing.
• I dislike how Radiant Dawn, Awakening, and Fates inflated the scope of unit stats. I feel like keeping the scale of stats lower, like it was in previous games, lends a lot more weight to individual stat points, and therefore to both level-up gains and stat boosters. I think this is one way in which Fire Emblem is kinda making itself more complex where it doesn't need to be and where it doesn't actually service the game structure to do so. I think that the GBA games actually hit on a pretty good sense of scale for character stats, with a stat that was around the high teens/low twenties being "pretty good", and a value of 30 being absolutely godlike.
• I'd honestly take Archanea and its story and cast being promoted over Awakening or Fates any day.
• I genuinely feel that the presentation, control, and user interface elements are the best aspects of the 3DS Fire Emblem games.
• Awakening's naming scheme for its cutscene tracks is just about the worst thing ever.
• Big Yellow Taxi plays in my head every time I play Awakening or Fates and there's no between-chapters map narration.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Topaz Light

[The DanMan]

I had been thinking about this just recently, actually.

Had they made a moderately entertaining but flawed narrative, I would have given them the "At least you tried" gold star, but they did everything so poorly that I can't even praise them for that. Besides, I wouldn't even call it "something different" considering Micaiah's story arc was a much more competent telling of what they were trying to do in Conquest.

But it is moderately entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

Anyways:

-I'd like the option for fixed growths to return. It makes things less random and easier to strategize around; nobody's getting RNG blessed or screwed. It's not for everybody, sure, but that's why POR had it as an option.

Frederick to Cordelia: ''Do you even recall our conversation? ...If, indeed, it can be called that? You spent two hours describing in vivid detail your unrequited passion for Chrom. You also sobbed repeatedly and kept asking me "Why, Frederick?! Why?!" Then you devoured all the sandwiches and ran off with the picnic hamper.

Cordelia to Chrom: ''*Pant* *weeze* *Choke''

I have a feeling Awakening itself finds it a bit pathetic as well

As for an unpopular opinion. Most people seem pretty down on the S support of Frederik and Cordelia but that line alone makes me think its pretty great.

Always go for Robin/Cordelia. NONE of that shows through, and her PTSD is actually the focus of things.

Edited July 27, 2016 by The DanMan

[The Draco Knight]

I'm not even bothered by the Blood Pact for how it affects Micaiah's story because even if it didn't exist, the story would still work. Instead of the Blood Pact it could just be Begnion threatening to reoccupy Daein if Daein doesn't support their war effort

However, this wouldn't be same as the blood pact:

The blood pact literally forces Micaiah to fight against the laguz alliance or everyone else would die, while if Begnion simply threatened Daein, Daein would betray them and ally with the laguz alliance to be independent from Begnion once and for all.

I could be forgetting something tough.

Anyway:

- the Hoshidan classes are pretty good and I hope they will return in future gsmes

- the way Gaiden managed Magic was really unique and should be brought back in a future FE game

- the dismounting mechanic is totally useless and never had any kind of potential

- the new weapon system of Fates that substitute the weight system of the older FE is something that, with more refinement, could become something very interesting

[NekoKnight]

However, this wouldn't be same as the blood pact:

The blood pact literally forces Micaiah to fight against the laguz alliance or everyone else would die, while if Begnion simply threatened Daein, Daein would betray them and ally with the laguz alliance to be independent from Begnion once and for all.

I could be forgetting something tough.

There are a few things wrong with your scenario.

1. Begnion's army is huge. It's implied that it takes an alliance of every other nation (barring maybe the dragons) on the continent to even be equal to them. Maybe Daein could have tipped the scales in favor of the alliance, but a more decisive Begnion victory would probably lead to less Daein casualties.

2. No one likes Daein. In PoR, Daein wages war on pretty much every other nation and to this day, still has a lot of vehement racists. The idea that Daein soldiers would willingly ally with "sub-humans", or that any of the Laguz alliance members (besides Ike's party) would want Daein to prosper is pretty far-fetched. As sinister as Begnion is, they are the only ones likely to support them.

I'm sure the writing would need to be tweaked slightly to accommodate the new motivation for Micaiah, but overall I think there is enough context already to suggest that even without the Blood Pact, Daein wouldn't have a choice in supporting Begnion.

[The Draco Knight]

1. Begnion's army is huge. It's implied that it takes an alliance of every other nation (barring maybe the dragons) on the continent to even be equal to them. Maybe Daein could have tipped the scales in favor of the alliance, but a more decisive Begnion victory would probably lead to less Daein casualties.

However, when lekain decided to bring Daein into the war, Begnion was divided between those who follow Sanaki and those who follow the senators; plus, the Oznian army joined them as well, after they knew what happened to Sanaki and that the senators where the real masterminds.

My apologies for not bringing up this before

You have a point on the second part tough.

[Acacia Sgt]

Don't forget Daein had just wrestled free from Begnion's control. Daein had no business entering the war since:

1) They'd be more busy rebuilding their own country.

2) Neither side was exactly the sort they'd like to fight with (racism against the Laguz, and despite what the game may have you believe, the Daein citizens should still not be that happy with Begnion after the three years of occupation and their treatment during them)

The Blood Pact was only for the benefit of the "PCs versus PCs" thing.

[Omegaprism]

Here's an opinion I basically never see: I'd be perfectly happy to not see another game starring Marth for a long time. He's had four games, and the last two were just remakes of 1 and 3, itself a semi-remake of 1. I have had quite enough of the original generic blue-haired prince. His almost complete lack of interesting personality traits is mainly a result of the era in which he originated, I know, but if (more likely when) he makes another appearance, taking up yet another spot that could have gone to Gaiden or either of the Judgral games, I hope there is some major writing done to update his character. It says something when I find Katie Tiedrich's parody of him more compelling and interesting than the real thing.

I should point out that I am not discounting Ms. Tiedrich's considerable artistic and comedic talents. You should all go read Awkward Zombie if you haven't already. That comic is dope as hell.

[Raguna]

Here's an opinion I basically never see: I'd be perfectly happy to not see another game starring Marth for a long time. He's had four games, and the last two were just remakes of 1 and 3, itself a semi-remake of 1. I have had quite enough of the original generic blue-haired prince. His almost complete lack of interesting personality traits is mainly a result of the era in which he originated, I know, but if (more likely when) he makes another appearance, taking up yet another spot that could have gone to Gaiden or either of the Judgral games, I hope there is some major writing done to update his character. It says something when I find Katie Tiedrich's parody of him more compelling and interesting than the real thing.

I should point out that I am not discounting Ms. Tiedrich's considerable artistic and comedic talents. You should all go read Awkward Zombie if you haven't already. That comic is dope as hell.

To be fair, Marth is considerably more interesting had the remake of FE 3 actually focused on him more instead of Kris, but I get your point.

[Thane]

Here's an opinion I basically never see: I'd be perfectly happy to not see another game starring Marth for a long time. He's had four games, and the last two were just remakes of 1 and 3, itself a semi-remake of 1. I have had quite enough of the original generic blue-haired prince. His almost complete lack of interesting personality traits is mainly a result of the era in which he originated, I know, but if (more likely when) he makes another appearance, taking up yet another spot that could have gone to Gaiden or either of the Judgral games, I hope there is some major writing done to update his character. It says something when I find Katie Tiedrich's parody of him more compelling and interesting than the real thing.

I should point out that I am not discounting Ms. Tiedrich's considerable artistic and comedic talents. You should all go read Awkward Zombie if you haven't already. That comic is dope as hell.

I share this sentiment. I want the series to move away from having such interchangeable protagonists. I know, I know there are differences between them, but at their core they feel far too similar to me.

Throw in a tome-wielding lord while you're at it.

[Sidereal Wraith]

I never want Tokyo Mirage Sessions # FE to have a sequel.

Also I think Takumi is an interesting character.

Edited July 28, 2016 by wraith

[NekoKnight]

Here's an opinion I basically never see: I'd be perfectly happy to not see another game starring Marth for a long time. He's had four games, and the last two were just remakes of 1 and 3, itself a semi-remake of 1. I have had quite enough of the original generic blue-haired prince. His almost complete lack of interesting personality traits is mainly a result of the era in which he originated, I know, but if (more likely when) he makes another appearance, taking up yet another spot that could have gone to Gaiden or either of the Judgral games, I hope there is some major writing done to update his character. It says something when I find Katie Tiedrich's parody of him more compelling and interesting than the real thing.

I should point out that I am not discounting Ms. Tiedrich's considerable artistic and comedic talents. You should all go read Awkward Zombie if you haven't already. That comic is dope as hell.

I don't really hear the inverse of this opinion either. Has anyone been clamoring for more Marth games?

I never want Tokyo Mirage Sessions # FE to have a sequel.

Also I think Takumi is an interesting character.

Neither of these are really unpopular. A lot of FE fans are disinterested from even trying Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Takumi is often praised as one of Fates best written characters (small praise, considering, but still).

[FrostyFireMage]

Given the negative reception towards Fates' story I'm worried IS will cut their losses and just have cliched and uninspired plots in their future FE titles.

[Thane]

Given the negative reception towards Fates' story I'm worried IS will cut their losses and just have cliched and uninspired plots in their future FE titles.

I'm more concerned they'll ignore the complaints and amp up the fan service, thinking that's what made the game sell so well.

[Aircalipoor]

Conquest's gameplay is not the best in the series and certainly does not compensate for the garbage story.

[NekoKnight]

Given the negative reception towards Fates' story I'm worried IS will cut their losses and just have cliched and uninspired plots in their future FE titles.

I worry about this too. It's not that fans wouldn't have loved an involved story that required three games to explore in its entirety, but when you make three games that have enough story content for one game when all taken together, people are going to notice. When you compromise all of your themes, characterization and story comprehension for the sake of fan service, people are going to notice. When you hype a celebrity writer who evidently doesn't have enough time to be closely involved with the game development, people are going to notice.

It would be a big shame if IS couldn't realize their own mistakes and only came to the conclusion "Ah, FE fans don't like intricate stories."

I'm more concerned they'll ignore the complaints and amp up the fan service, thinking that's what made the game sell so well.

"Fan service" as in battle panties is probably going to be dependent on the current artist/art director. The "fan service" that we will certainly get more of is idolized avatars, marriage and children, because those DO make the game sell well, even if they don't make the game necessarily better.

[Rapier]

I don't care about speed runs. I prefer to play slowly, grind as much experience as I can (without EXP DLCs or extra chapters like Fates' invasions and FE8's skirmishes), and my main enjoyment with the series is seeing a weak unit become a formidable fighter by the end of the game (or before).

[KoimanZX]

-I miss the magic triangle. I know there is very little strategic value to having a weapon triangle for magic as magic classes tend to have high resistance and tomes have fairly low might, but at least made magic feel more legitimate. I also understand that having just one weapon rank for tomes is more practical, rather than 3-5 ranks, but I like having each magic type be its own weapon as it makes magic not seem like an afterthought. (I have some ideas of how to make the magic triangle more significant, but they are all pretty stupid).

-I like characters with high strength and defense (I know speed is far more important, but being doubled is not so bad when the enemy does no damage).

-Axes and dark magic are my favorite weapon types. (I really like the dark magic animations in Radiant Dawn).