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What returning features would you like to see in the next fe?


Super Potat
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I would love the return of features like shove from fe9 and fe10 because I feel that adds a really good extra layer of strategy

Another one I quite love is the fatigue system in Thracia 776 which forces way more unit diversity instead of just benching most units you get throughout the game

Finally I just want that god damn magic triangle back again to make magic types a bit more diverse, maybe even splinting anima back up again to diversify them more

Anyone want any other returning features or hate the ones I mentioned?

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I would love the return of features like shove from fe9 and fe10 because I feel that adds a really good extra layer of strategy

Another one I quite love is the fatigue system in Thracia 776 which forces way more unit diversity instead of just benching most units you get throughout the game

Finally I just want that god damn magic triangle back again to make magic types a bit more diverse, maybe even splinting anima back up again to diversify them more

Anyone want any other returning features or hate the ones I mentioned?

Shove is a skill in Fates.

Also, I say NO to fatigue and the magic triangle - the magic triangle just isn't ever relevant (aside from mages being a minority in the player's and enemy's armies, why would I care about my Bishops being disadvantaged against mages and sages when they're coming out better 9 times out of 10?), and while I think IntSys could do more to encourage unit diversity, fatigue is NOT one of the ways to go about it.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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I'm probably in the minority but, linear promotions and dismounting.

I know linear promotions removes the diversity branched promotions give, but I just happen to prefer them in all honesty but I wouldn't be too annoyed without them.

I always liked dismounting as a concept, but it was always done, well meh is the only way I can describe it. It made it hard to make Gradivus, arguably one of the best weapons in FE3 useful since all you had were Armour Knights to use them and not the likes of Sheeda or Sirius, it was pointless in FE4 and FE5 had the disadvantage of having to train units like Lane Knights in lances and swords since unlike FE3, Weapon Level was not a thing anymore. If done right I really think dismounting could have been cool (And if it was in Shadow Dragon like was intended, I bet I would have liked SD a lot more).

Also PoR/RD Base and Support System. That is all

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I would like for them to bring back Berserk staves. Yes, they are a pain, but think about it. They pose an extreme threat that you need to take great care in being prepared.

I would like back Linear promotions and story promotions. With the addition of reclass, branched promotions are pretty much useless. You get more unit capability out of both, but having both kind of defeats the purpose of the other. Story promotions, because I like a sense that my main character is growing, and is worth a sh*t. Only acception is Celice/Siliph, from FE 4.

Finally, I would love to see weapon weight return. It was not as confusing as the new system they have in fates. It's interesting, what the developers did, but weapon weight or interactive handicaps are nice when you are trying to properly balance units. Plus, it gives just as much attention to detail to check for weight as it does the new de-buffs.

Edited by Lord Tullus
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I liked the Fatigue system, but it was a system really built around Thracia as a game. For it to work you can't just shove it into any Fire Emblem game. You need to ensure there are plenty of units that are easy to train and useful in some capacity.

Other things I'd like to see back include

-Biorhythm, and not as a skill available to very few units. It's a subtle addition to the game but one that I like.

-Different heights, it really adds another dimension to the game...

-Third tiers, I'd really like to see it mixed with branching promotions

-Bonus EXP, as well as given hard to train units an extra boost, it also helps to give more rewards for more subobjectives in maps.

-Base Convos, even if they were all masterfully written, an infinite number of support convos are inevitably going to be limited by the fact that you don't know when in the game they can take place. Having base conversations really helped to make the characters feel real and as if they're reacting to the world. Plus it can give rewards for keeping certain characters alive.

-Crossbows because why not?

-Summoners because why not?

-I am completely up for having Con and Weapon Weight return. Just give it a growth like it had when it was initally included.

-Durability, it was nice to have one game without it for a change of pace but overall I think the resource management of durability is a plus.

-Gaiden's that feel somewhat connected to the plot and not like the characters are just wandering around.

-If the capture command is a skill I'd like to see it be a skill I can potentially give to multiple units instead of just one. And see it in general made more use of it like it was in Thracia. For example capturing certain bosses can lead to Gaidens or a difference in the plot. And some recruitable enemies that actually have supports and endings etc. Was hoping the bandit brothers could support each other when I captured them but alas no.

Edited by Jotari
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Thanks for pointing out that first bit

I think IntSys could do more to encourage unit diversity, fatigue is NOT one of the ways to go about it.

What else do you suggest to do? Don't see how fatigue is especially bad although could be changed slightly due to it reducing the effectiveness of mages/low hp units a lot maybe a seperate counter for fatigue would love to see what you think could increase that

With magic it makes dark magic actually usable making it able to defeat (arguably) the best magic, anima. Light magic in general isn't going to see much use (well without the general 'tomes' weapon class) and just adds a layer of strategy to be able to use. Without the magic triangle makes magic just seem a bit lackluster with so many different magics and only one type 'tome' being used. + a magic triangle if the 3 anima types are split like in fe9+10+4+5 (don't know about 11+12+1+2+3) makes all the magic types more usable as each one has a distinctive advantage over the others instead of one just being statistically more powerful

Edited by Super Duper Potato
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With magic it makes dark magic actually usable making it able to defeat (arguably) the best magic, anima. Light magic in general isn't going to see much use (well without the general 'tomes' weapon class) and just adds a layer of strategy to be able to use. Without the magic triangle makes magic just seem a bit lackluster with so many different magics and only one type 'tome' being used. + a magic triangle if the 3 anima types are split like in fe9+10+4+5 (don't know about 11+12+1+2+3) makes all the magic types more usable as each one has a distinctive advantage over the others instead of one just being statistically more powerful

The problem is, mages in general tend to have high resistance, and thus for the magic triangle to mean anything, you'd likely need to go so far as to make the bonuses for being on the advantaged side completely ridiculous - as is, the magic triangle looks more like a bad joke than a legitimate strategic implement. Also, look at FE4, which introduced the magic triangle to begin with - fire had an advantage over wind, but that didn't stop wind from being a Game Breaker, nor did it save fire from being nigh useless.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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I would like to see the return of the monsters, but this time, make them strong enough to be a threath even in gameplay, not just in the story.

Also, I must say that I miss the normsl battle themes: nothing against the Ablaze/Fire versions of the map themes, but the battle themes were much more memorable, at least to me.

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Wow I bunch of new responses while I took forever to write that

Can definitely agree with these ideas of linear promotions because I personally just end up looking online "what is the best class for so and so" and end up picking which one people say is statistically better. There's also the factor of re-classing which for me is just confusing and often revolves around the idea of getting the best skills from each class and just going for the 'best class'

Dismounting is a great way to nerf mounted units as they are way too powerful and just adding low stat caps as an alternative just seems lazy and will make those mounted units useless late game (if the game is decently challenging)

Agree with the idea of adding back berserk staffs because of it adding some powerful staffs which we need more than just healing of and I want sleep staffs back for the same reason. This will also help to make people be more cautious with positioning making sure a healer is in range

Story promotions seem like such a pain and just ends up gimping the main lord for no real reason and if they really did grow then their character would change and you would be able to tell

Weapon weight is almost gunna need a return as it makes swords a lot more powerful and makes weapons like axes have an actual disadvantage (not weapon triangle wise) instead of being straight up better

Moving onto Jotari's points here:

Biorhythm just made some units unreliable with attacking and positioning a pain, just seemed like one more thing to keep your eye on as you went into battle

I swear there are different heights in all the games? I recall there being cliffs in all of them thus meaning different heights?

Third tiers only really worked in fe10 for the reason of it concentrating on such a compact group (the tier 1s in the dawn brigade) meaning that they had enough time to promote, though even then it is unlikely to use many of them due to there just not being enough exp. But it worked there because of another group having so many tier 2s to use from the start. Branching promotions with it would just make it chaotic with the promotion trees

Bonus exp was just an odd system and while buffing up some of the harder to train units and making them useful it made them a bit too useful in a way and got rid of the "oh I have an est now should I train it or not" to just shelling out a bunch of bonus exp to it

Base convos were really useful because sometimes it felt like some of the lines just didn't fit in the scenario of an open battle

Crossbows just seemed to be a limiter on warriors not giving them access to bows

Summoners were slightly overpowered because of the advantage of not worrying if any of the summons died

Haven't played gaiden yet sadly so can't comment on that

You talked about fatigue being designed for Thracia specifically and so was capture, in Thracia it was so based around capturing because of the lack of gold in the game. If they were to reintroduce it like in Thracia they will have to do a similar thing of stripping the player of gold

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The problem is, mages in general tend to have high resistance, and thus for the magic triangle to mean anything, you'd likely need to go so far as to make the bonuses for being on the advantaged side completely ridiculous - as is, the magic triangle looks more like a bad joke than a legitimate strategic implement. Also, look at FE4, which introduced the magic triangle to begin with - fire had an advantage over wind, but that didn't stop wind from being a Game Breaker, nor did it save fire from being nigh useless.

You have to remember in fe4 that the weapon triangle bonus was only +/- 20% accuracy and in fe5 reduced to +/- 5% accuracy (was still slightly important in the later due to adding 20% and wind was mostly because there was no might difference between the different anima magic types, look towards what fe10 did in future as the magic types there were mostly balanced) so they can't really be referenced because in later games there was actually a damage buff of +1 to the leader in the weapon triangle and the opposite to the loser of it in the fight

In all fire emblems 1 point of damage can mean the difference between killing an enemy and not, extra accuracy is always better on weapons too for a guaranteed hit change if only by 10% in any way and it can definitely spell the difference between hitting that enemy and not. You have to remember that this is a game where everything extra you can get matters

If one magic type is definitely better than another though even with weapon triangle buffs then that's a show of bad weapon balancing

Edited by Super Duper Potato
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I would like to see the return of the monsters, but this time, make them strong enough to be a threath even in gameplay, not just in the story.

Also, I must say that I miss the normsl battle themes: nothing against the Ablaze/Fire versions of the map themes, but the battle themes were much more memorable, at least to me.

The difficulty of monsters being so low was because of the game making them weak in fe8 to things like light magic and ALL the holy weapons.

I assume you only mean the monsters in fe8 because the ones in fe13 were just normal enemies with the name 'monster'. Don't even know if fe14 had monsters lol

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Moving onto Jotari's points here:

Biorhythm just made some units unreliable with attacking and positioning a pain, just seemed like one more thing to keep your eye on as you went into battle

I swear there are different heights in all the games? I recall there being cliffs in all of them thus meaning different heights?

Third tiers only really worked in fe10 for the reason of it concentrating on such a compact group (the tier 1s in the dawn brigade) meaning that they had enough time to promote, though even then it is unlikely to use many of them due to there just not being enough exp. But it worked there because of another group having so many tier 2s to use from the start. Branching promotions with it would just make it chaotic with the promotion trees

Bonus exp was just an odd system and while buffing up some of the harder to train units and making them useful it made them a bit too useful in a way and got rid of the "oh I have an est now should I train it or not" to just shelling out a bunch of bonus exp to it

Base convos were really useful because sometimes it felt like some of the lines just didn't fit in the scenario of an open battle

Crossbows just seemed to be a limiter on warriors not giving them access to bows

Summoners were slightly overpowered because of the advantage of not worrying if any of the summons died

Haven't played gaiden yet sadly so can't comment on that

You talked about fatigue being designed for Thracia specifically and so was capture, in Thracia it was so based around capturing because of the lack of gold in the game. If they were to reintroduce it like in Thracia they will have to do a similar thing of stripping the player of gold

-An extra thing to keep an eye on is exactly why I want it. I like an extra layer of complexity.

-By differnt heights i meant the fact that in Radiant Dawn, attacking from a ledge downwards would give an accuracy boost while doing the inverse would give a nerf etc

-I feel third tiers didn't actually workin Radiant Dawn since everyone was a pre promote. Everyone in the Dawn Brigade could have been preprmoted too and fought part 3 strength enemies and then absolutely nothing would have changed. Radiant Dawn essentially had two tiers and gave you a few traines to start off with. That being said as an idea I do like it, especially when they gave some great names and class designs to the third tiers.

-In Radiant Dawn you could do what you like to basically train a unit from 1 to 20 using bonus exp but it actually isn't all that wise in Radiant Dawn since you will only ever get three stat ups when levelling from base. So if you have an est type character with high growths bonus exp would probably make them a lot weaker in the long run.Using it to boost them so they get a level at the very start of battle or when a unit has already capped their main stats is the best way of using it.

-Re crossbows, true but as an idea they're pretty cool. Even if it was just a weapon in the bow group it'd be pretty cool to have them back. Though I think they'd need some better damage scaling than in Radiant Dawn where they quickly became useless.

-With Gaiden as the only example I have to go off, they certailny didn't seem over powered there. Phantoms were rather weak, literally having 1 hp and only one could be summoned at a time. Still pretty useful but it was mroe for safely baiting enemies than dealing a lot of damage (though them eventually getting killer axes was nice).

-I mean Gaiden chapters like paralogues. In the last two games the Gaidens have almost exclusively featured the protagonists wandering about and getting into trouble entirely unrelated to the events in the game. I want gaidens that actually tie into the plot or an on going sub plot like in FE6 and FE12.

-Capture was specifically designed around Thracia but it was more designed around it's resources than its units, which I'd be fine with coming back but it wasn't what I was talking about. Having the ability to spare certain enemies actually affecting things is what I mean. Like the way you could go to certain Gaidens by capturing (or having your units captuered) in Thracia. That's not necessarily tied to the fact that you can steal weapons or even the fact that the unit becomes attached to you and lowers stats.

Speaking of which, another thing I'd like to see is enemies capturing units with no weapons. Not only does this actually make your healers somewhat safer but it's a great way of preventing you from holding a choke point by throwing your high defense unit in there and having it somehow hold off an army barehanded.

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I swear there are different heights in all the games? I recall there being cliffs in all of them thus meaning different heights?

I assume what Jotari meant was that in Radiant Dawn, you got a bonus to your hit rate and damage dealt if you were attacking from a higher elevation - on the other hand, your accuracy went down if you tried to attack an enemy on a higher elevation.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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The idea of a height advantage would be quite weird because if I recall that was only in select chapters in fe10 where they actually used this mechanic but it would be nice to return but I definitely wouldn't like to see it in every chapter but it being present in some chapters as a gimmick of sorts to that chapter would be quite cool

Would like to see what would happen with third tiers in a game but that is mainly limited by the duration of the game. They could work around this by decreasing the level cap or making a very long game (increasing exp counts would just make each level way too short and limiting how much exp you get per level would be a pain for designers, same for decreasing level cap as that could simply just make there not be enough levels in a select class)

I swear with bexp it would at minimum increase stats by 3 but could increase them by more (if not so then I was so awful when playing it). Even so it can get quite dodgy with people semi abusing the bexp system for 'perfect' level ups because of the 3 stats minimum

If crossbows were re-added with scaling there could be a problem as that 1-2 range is pretty strong and could make archers either useless if they don't have access to it or perhaps as strong as mages in that regard

In fe8 they were amazingly powerful (fe8 may be an easy game already but these units have been known to remain extremely powerful on hacks that buffs the enemies stats a lot(sometimes 100% more stats than normal)) and being able to infinitely summon these free units means that you can suicide them with no consequence, not the thing you want in a game about decision making

Lol knowing that now changes a lot. Gaidens really need to tie into events into the plot that aren't necessary to know about but add more to the story. Fe6 definitely did this well probably because of it only being released to the Japs which the creators knew their audience on. However it seems like they unknowing of the audience overseas made the things in gaidens all side story stuff as to not leave the casuals out which they thought there was lots of overseas. Everything I said might have been bullshit but that's my theory for that at the time.

Sadly if I recall they only used the specific gaiden for that type of condition once in Thracia. I don't know as well how'd you explain you not getting the weapons of the enemy when capturing them though (don't know about how it works in fe14, haven't played it yet)

Enemy capturing I don't have to be suspicious about at all because it's a mechanic that really works, I mean surely the enemy would prefer you more alive than dead and it has the disadvantage when an enemy catches you are quite high (the unit losing their weapons). I don't really know what that last point is about an armoured unit because I will always give them weapons otherwise seems like a waste unless you really want that really slow exp

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Sticking a unit with no weapons in a choke point means they can only be attacked by two or three attacks per turn max (depending on the choke point). Hence they can survive and heal the next turn. But if they have a weapon and kill their enemies then they could be tanking significantly more attacks on enemy phase and are under much bigger risk of dying. Sending them in unarmed is a strategy that almost guarantees they can hold the choke point completely indefinitely with no risks. It can be a very cheap strategy and in terms of actual logic makes absolutely no sense inuniverse.

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Sticking a unit with no weapons in a choke point means they can only be attacked by two or three attacks per turn max (depending on the choke point). Hence they can survive and heal the next turn. But if they have a weapon and kill their enemies then they could be tanking significantly more attacks on enemy phase and are under much bigger risk of dying. Sending them in unarmed is a strategy that almost guarantees they can hold the choke point completely indefinitely with no risks. It can be a very cheap strategy and in terms of actual logic makes absolutely no sense inuniverse.

But it absolutely does make sense in universe, Sirius stated it in FE12 as a base convo with My unit

Chris:

It looks like you're maintaining your weapons.

Sirius:

That's right. My weapon once broke during a mission... Since then, I've been ever vigilant.

Chris:

Oh? So even someone as skilled as you made a simple error like that once...? Was it some kind of special mission?

Sirius:

Yes. I had to escort someone... or rather, help her escape into exile. I had to protect a lone bishop, together with a few other soldiers... as we crossed a bandit-filled mountain. That was the plan.

Chris:

That sounds quite difficult.

Sirius:

Yes. The main problem was that there were simply too many enemies. If my mighty lance were to break, it'd be all over.

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You have to remember in fe4 that the weapon triangle bonus was only +/- 20% accuracy and in fe5 reduced to +/- 5% accuracy (was still slightly important in the later due to adding 20% and wind was mostly because there was no might difference between the different anima magic types, look towards what fe10 did in future as the magic types there were mostly balanced) so they can't really be referenced because in later games there was actually a damage buff of +1 to the leader in the weapon triangle and the opposite to the loser of it in the fight

In all fire emblems 1 point of damage can mean the difference between killing an enemy and not, extra accuracy is always better on weapons too for a guaranteed hit change if only by 10% in any way and it can definitely spell the difference between hitting that enemy and not. You have to remember that this is a game where everything extra you can get matters

If one magic type is definitely better than another though even with weapon triangle buffs then that's a show of bad weapon balancing

You're right about that, at least - however, Radiant Dawn still had the same fundamental issues that made the magic triangle irrelevant, in addition to mages in general not exactly being good, to say the least.

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But it absolutely does make sense in universe, Sirius stated it in FE12 as a base convo with My unit

I think you're misinterpreting the strategy I'm talking about. The stance in universe is that you need a weapon to defend something which isn't true to gameplay.

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The difficulty of monsters being so low was because of the game making them weak in fe8 to things like light magic and ALL the holy weapons.

I assume you only mean the monsters in fe8 because the ones in fe13 were just normal enemies with the name 'monster'. Don't even know if fe14 had monsters lol

Yes, I meant the monsters from FE8 and their problems weren't only the light magic and the legendary weapons, but also their stats were truly pathetic and only some of them were a little difficult, like the draco zombie and maybe the gorgon.

I find this to be a little sad because in the story they are considered to be stronger than a normal man while in gameplay is the totally opposite.

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Response took a while because I slept and stuff

You're right about that, at least - however, Radiant Dawn still had the same fundamental issues that made the magic triangle irrelevant, in addition to mages in general not exactly being good, to say the least.

The mages they gave you access to had awful availability most of the time for sure but the separate magic types did however add some unit diversity with each mage being useful in their own way (in anima at least) by giving each magic type an advantage against certain enemy types (thunder on dragons, wind on fliers, fire on only beast laguz? Can't remember what laguz it worked on) making the usefulness of each mage having weapon caps in different anima magic work although fire mages seem like trash because of the only two having so little availability (Sanaki requires so much favoritism to be useful at all)

Yes, I meant the monsters from FE8 and their problems weren't only the light magic and the legendary weapons, but also their stats were truly pathetic and only some of them were a little difficult, like the draco zombie and maybe the gorgon.
I find this to be a little sad because in the story they are considered to be stronger than a normal man while in gameplay is the totally opposite.

Fe8 was an easy game overall so comments on them being too easy can be directly linked to the game. I played through fe8 with 100% higher enemy stats and they were quite a problem in that, especially the gorgons who stone your people being such a major threat. If they were put in the same style into a more balanced game they would be way more tougher (that's if light magic doesn't have such a buff against them)

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The mages they gave you access to had awful availability most of the time for sure but the separate magic types did however add some unit diversity with each mage being useful in their own way (in anima at least) by giving each magic type an advantage against certain enemy types (thunder on dragons, wind on fliers, fire on only beast laguz? Can't remember what laguz it worked on) making the usefulness of each mage having weapon caps in different anima magic work although fire mages seem like trash because of the only two having so little availability (Sanaki requires so much favoritism to be useful at all)

That's part of it - other issues were weak tomes (also an issue in Path of Radiance) and low speed growths and caps (the exceptions to the former were the fire mages, both of whom had availability concerns), and it's also worth noting that in RD, non-thunder magics don't get to exercise their effective bonuses often, except AGAINST your units, thanks to most of the laguz chapters being with the Daeins.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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- Bonus experience as RD did it was a nice way to help units get points in stats they had bad growths in or help underleveled units to catch up enough to be usable for better leveling. Plus it's a nice reward system for bonus objectives.

- As broken as they were, I liked PoR Paladins being able to choose their second weapon type. It doesn't have to be on Paladins specifically though, another class having that might be even better (Master of Arms?)

- Base conversations from Tellius.

- Restore staff. This really should have been a thing in Fates. (And why not the more traditional debuff staves like Berserk and Sleep too)

- plot-connected side chapters. When was the last time we had these anyways, FE7?

On another note, how are fire/wind/thunder tomes in Tellius being effective against beast/bird/dragon laguz related to magic triangle?

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Forgot about this topic for a while

That's part of it - other issues were weak tomes (also an issue in Path of Radiance) and low speed growths and caps (the exceptions to the former were the fire mages, both of whom had availability concerns), and it's also worth noting that in RD, non-thunder magics don't get to exercise their effective bonuses often, except AGAINST your units, thanks to most of the laguz chapters being with the Daeins.

Don't know what you're talking about with only non-thunder units gaining their bonuses as wind magic was extremely useful in the buildup to the tower of guidance but there were no flying units in there limiting it's usefulness in compassion to thunder magic in one of the hardest chapters of the game (the dragon one)(well was hard at least for me)

On another note, how are fire/wind/thunder tomes in Tellius being effective against beast/bird/dragon laguz related to magic triangle?

Argument ended there on how much effect the weapon triangle had on magic because it was mainly focused around the anima weapon triangle and they weren't many examples to go off

Went onto related point about mages in general in fe9 + fe10 and how the splitting of anima magic was somewhat good and gave mages more diversity

- As broken as they were, I liked PoR Paladins being able to choose their second weapon type. It doesn't have to be on Paladins specifically though, another class having that might be even better (Master of Arms?)

They already limited character uniqueness with the ability of class change but the ability of being able to pick their second weapon just wouldn't make sense for some classes though e.g. a merc promotes to a hero, they get a second weapon of an axe or a... Basically it would mean redesigning most of the classes. If they went the other way and added it only to certain classes it would give those too much of an edge over other classes (personally I cannot remember this even being a thing)

Addressed all other points in other posts

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Definitely these:

- Third tier classes

- Ledge mechanics

- More unique objectives (Fates Conquest is more diverse compared to Birthright, but still not as diverse as RD was, I hear. I want RD diversity)

- Base conversations

- Limited support pool

Basically a lot of PoR and RD stuff, yeah. Hey, I felt they had the best mechanics.

Edited by Anacybele
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Don't know what you're talking about with only non-thunder units gaining their bonuses as wind magic was extremely useful in the buildup to the tower of guidance but there were no flying units in there limiting it's usefulness in compassion to thunder magic in one of the hardest chapters of the game (the dragon one)(well was hard at least for me)

Looks like you misread what I was saying - the point is, if any magic other than Thunder was getting an effective bonus, it more often than not was on one of your units because (1) Dracoknights and their class tree no longer count as fliers for the purpose of determining class weaknesses (they were instead weak to thunder magic), and (2) most of the chapters with laguz happened to be when you were playing with the Daein army (the only one that isn't is 4-5).

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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