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Jedi

Returning fan favorites from the previous game, a new trend?

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Now Fates is far from the first game to pull characters from a previous FE, but with it bringing back Inigo, Severa, Owain and in a loose way bringing back Cordelia, Tharja and Gaius through reincarnation of sorts. Despite there being zero connection between Awakening & Fates other than the Gate being a connection to the various universes, which is very unlike the other times characters appeared in other games, which was usually due to them being sequels in universe with other FE's etc.

Are we to expect to see the same thing in FE15? Where they take the most popular Fates characters and rehash them/further develop them despite them not fitting in whatsoever? Figured it could be an interesting discussion topic, as I would only like to see characters from Fates come back as like some kind of bonus at most, and not like how Inigo, Severa and Owain did.

Although Inigo is one of my favorite characters in both games, it almost feels like IS wants to make sure people recognize that Fates is in the same franchise as Awakening despite sharing a franchise name, they seem afraid of trying to let a game stand on its own now. Despite the fact that, the gameplay is very stellar, a massive improvement over Awakening, unless its Revelation, but thats another deal entirely.

Edited by Jedi

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You noticed it too then? I'm not surprised.

Fates honestly feels to me like it's trying to remind me of Awakening every chance it gets. Returning characters get a pass, but then I look at absolutely unfathomable decisions like why their identities are changed when they at best meet Chrom, Lissa and Frederick, and at worst, meet Lucina, the former three haven't met them yet thus don't recognize them... Lucina however... INSTANTLY. RECOGNIZES. ALL OF THEM. The more I try not to think about it, the more I see this decision literally degrading over time and it's just AWFUL!

Of course Revelation is literally forcing Awakening's last story section down your throat. It's not that it's bad to take inspirationfrom something, but it feels like straight up plagiarism of its own predecessor. Though as stated, the gameplay itself sets it apart from Awakening in that area at least. Even so... it just feels more like an expensive knock-off...

Sorry... I got a little carried away there... ^-^;

If I wanted to see returning characters who would I pick?

How many characters could I pick? I'd assume 3 or 4 but maximizing the number would help my choices.

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Although Inigo is one of my favorite characters in both games, it almost feels like IS wants to make sure people recognize that Fates is in the same franchise as Awakening despite sharing a franchise name, they seem afraid of trying to let a game stand on its own now.

This worries me. On one hand, Intelligent Systems allegedly look at feedback and try to improve on the less popular parts of the game as any sane company would, and since both kids and returning characters (and "returning" in the form of the Hoshido kids) were met with very lukewarm feelings, a part of me expects the next game to be a clean slate with just some references thrown in. Something to support this theory would be the success Fates - they relied on the formula of Awakening in many regards when creating Fates, and now that they've got a strong, prosperous fan base and Fire Emblem is pretty much a known success story, they might feel like they've got more elbow room.

However, another part of me is afraid that Intelligent Systems have no idea what they're doing or why their games are popular in the first place and will only look at the sales figures, amp up the fan service and play it safe. The sheer popularity of Camilla makes it impossible for me to imagine FE15 without a similar character or, if Fates is any indication of an emerging trend, an actual reincarnation of her in it.

Despite the fact that, the gameplay is very stellar, a massive improvement over Awakening, unless its Revelation, but thats another deal entirely.

Whaaat? Waiting for slow-moving platforms and chopping down walls of ice and progress at the speed of a glacier was the best part of the game!

Edited by Thane

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I do hope not. One reason is because its lazy and it goes at the cost of newer characters and the explanation for their presence may be to contrived.

But the more important reason I'm opossed is because it won't be the most popular characters that get tributes but the characters most popular WITH JAPAN. I think Gaius would be a good example of this. He ranked very high in Japan but you never hear anyone praise his merrits as a character or a unit. If the west was taken into consideration it would likely have been the more widely beloved Henry.

And i think this important because Japan has a very spesific taste in characters. If you don't like tsundere's or prettyboys a returning trio may irk you

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How many characters could I pick? I'd assume 3 or 4 but maximizing the number would help my choices.

I doubt we'd get many picks considering JP just used the highest popularity ranked kids from Japan to bring over and doing it with Fates would be weird. Discounting the royals who would need a pretty insane excuse to be not managing their countries. The likeliest candidates to come over if this ever does happen is Oboro who placed 3rd, Jakob who placed 4th and Niles who placed 7th. If they added a fourth character it would be a contention point between Odin or Flora as they both got 8th in their male and female poll specifically. As for the kid characters, we'd get Forrest, Nina, Ophelia and possibly Soleil unless they switch her in for Dwyer to keep an equal gender ratio. In either case, the Exalt line would still continue through Ophelia.

This next part is more subjective but even some other characters feel like they page homage to Awakening characters. Tsubaki and Hayato feel like a better Cordelia and a slightly more mature Ricken. Jakob seems like he took a tip from Frederick but turned into a jerk. Felicia is Sumia as a maid and Siegbert just feels like a mix of Chrom and a teen Xander. I think there could be more, but these illustrate my point either way.

There are sufficient characters that I think are pretty new, but I think it doesn't stop with Awakening with just the trio and expies. I honestly just want new characters to feel like themselves and not others. You can definitely take inspiration from past characters, heck that's what the archetypes like Cain and Abel are used for, but I'd prefer not a copy paste.

EDIT:

They could mess around a bit with the characters however since from what I see the only Hoshidan I see is Oboro. Selkie is the closest bet for Hoshidan girls and Shiro for a Hoshidan boy. As for a parent gen Hoshidan male, we'd get Kaze.

Edited by Raguna

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Personally, I could see a returning character only if the continent of FE15 was in the same world of Fates and if said character is someone that decides to travel around the world like Shiro or Hayato, for example.

But I personally don't want it to happen because It leaves slot for a new and possibly interesting character.

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I wasn't really a fan of Awakening having almost ever single holy weapon ever and things like "Roy's Blade" in an attempt to reference almost every single past entry.

Sure, I like Odin and Laslow and they have an excuse to be there, although the reason explained is through dlc -_-, but Rhajat, Caeldori, and Asugi don't have a reason to be there.... Basically, I don't think this should be a reoccurring thing. There are several things Fates did right, and several things Fates did wrong. Future FE games need to focus less on fanservice (both sexual and nonsexual, such as bringing back old characters) and focus on story writing.

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As for the kid characters, we'd get Forrest, Nina, Ophelia and possibly Soleil unless they switch her in for Dwyer to keep an equal gender ratio. In either case, the Exalt line would still continue through Ophelia.

The difference here would be that the kids from Fates are far less popular than their Awakening counterparts, at least according to the polls. The least popular Awakening character that returned in Fates was Severa, in 7:th place in the female poll, whereas the most popular kid in according to Intelligent Systems' very own list is Nina, in 10:th place.

I've also seen far less enthusiasm for them, although that's just in my experience and something that can't be measured. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I doubt we'll see the Fates kids in the next installment. Hell, I even doubt we'll have a second generation in Fire Emblem 15.

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The difference here would be that the kids from Fates are far less popular than their Awakening counterparts, at least according to the polls. The least popular Awakening character that returned in Fates was Severa, in 7:th place in the female poll, whereas the most popular kid in according to Intelligent Systems' very own list is Nina, in 10:th place.

I've also seen far less enthusiasm for them, although that's just in my experience and something that can't be measured. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I doubt we'll see the Fates kids in the next installment. Hell, I even doubt we'll have a second generation in Fire Emblem 15.

Weird at least the nintendo website places Severa in 17th place in the female category. I also highly doubt they'll return considering the lukewarm reception to kids which is honestly for the better. I'm not much of a fan of the way the marriage system is even handle in Awakening or Fates so FE 15 being a fresh start on everything outside of Awakening's shadow would be incredibly satisfying.

Edited by Raguna

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Weird at least the nintendo website places Severa in 17th place in the female category. I also highly doubt they'll return considering the lukewarm reception to kids which is honestly for the better. I'm not much of a fan of the way the marriage system is even handle in Awakening or Fates so FE 15 being a fresh start on everything outside of Awakening's shadow would be incredibly satisfying.

Here's the one I'm talking about: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html - you can see that, outside of Chrom, Lucina and Robin, the ones on top are the ones that came back in Fates.

Indeed. I love Awakening, but there are many things that needs to be done about its formula. Remaking the support system is high on that list; I think some shipping can be fun and helps with replayability, but the way it is now hurts the characterization of a lot of the cast.

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I doubt we'd get many picks considering JP just used the highest popularity ranked kids from Japan to bring over and doing it with Fates would be weird. Discounting the royals who would need a pretty insane excuse to be not managing their countries. The likeliest candidates to come over if this ever does happen is Oboro who placed 3rd, Jakob who placed 4th and Niles who placed 7th. If they added a fourth character it would be a contention point between Odin or Flora as they both got 8th in their male and female poll specifically. As for the kid characters, we'd get Forrest, Nina, Ophelia and possibly Soleil unless they switch her in for Dwyer to keep an equal gender ratio. In either case, the Exalt line would still continue through Ophelia.

This next part is more subjective but even some other characters feel like they page homage to Awakening characters. Tsubaki and Hayato feel like a better Cordelia and a slightly more mature Ricken. Jakob seems like he took a tip from Frederick but turned into a jerk. Felicia is Sumia as a maid and Siegbert just feels like a mix of Chrom and a teen Xander. I think there could be more, but these illustrate my point either way.

There are sufficient characters that I think are pretty new, but I think it doesn't stop with Awakening with just the trio and expies. I honestly just want new characters to feel like themselves and not others. You can definitely take inspiration from past characters, heck that's what the archetypes like Cain and Abel are used for, but I'd prefer not a copy paste.

EDIT:

They could mess around a bit with the characters however since from what I see the only Hoshidan I see is Oboro. Selkie is the closest bet for Hoshidan girls and Shiro for a Hoshidan boy. As for a parent gen Hoshidan male, we'd get Kaze.

I was actually going by the ideal of who I'd like to see over who was most likely to return.

Just going by kids would've been my formula too.

Maybe I'll just list them here with my reasons for why.

Siegbert

It's kinda odd since I actually only recruited him for the first time literally 2 days ago, but I actually read up about him on the wiki a lot prior to that. Seeing his supports with Xander, Midori and the Avatar actually helped my perspective cement though. He tries yo be very self-sufficient and independent so that he can prove himself to Xander, he strives to be the best he can be but he struggles to do so and oftentimes it becomes noticeable that he's trying too hard for his own good. His heart's in the right place but he needs to learn to ask for help more often, which is a point Xander raised to him in their supports. Midori and the Avatar actually help show that if he receives help or advice that he can be very appreciative and honestly, I feel that's a good character quality for someone of his station.

Asugi

So yeah, I kinda ranted regarding the expies but I actually feel that whilst their appearance and even their unique quirks are practically identical, Asugi actually stands out to me more than Gaius did. He comes across as more giving and is shown to have a complex relationship with his father. A large thing I didn't like about Gaius and Tharja is that they didn't feel very fleshed out and could've been well-written if they had more time in the story as significant characters after recruitment, even if only to be used for certain small events. Like Gaius scouting up ahead or Tharja providing details of Plegia's military tactics that she knows.

Basically, I like Asugi because he's (in my opinion) the most fleshed out of the expies.

Shigure

So, I was actually a little disappointed with how Shigure came across in the main game, because to me he seems literally like no more than an average guy. Not that that's a bad thing, but it felt off to put a character that's tied to so significant a character in the game to be portrayed as just average. However Heirs of Fate, is where I basically saw that he's the only one truly aware of what's actually happening and having an idea of how to stop it (though being guided by your technically dead mother helps too, I guess). He's very eager to help anyone overcome their difficulties and in Heirs of Fate specifically, feels like a much more confident Lucina, even willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good with a few self-doubts about it as I'm aware (HoF's second half isn't available to me yet so please correct anything I've got wrong). He's also got a strong bond with his now deceased best friend which is something I feel very is relatable personally.

Soleil

Whilst I do love both, Soleil and Ophelia, I feel as though Soleil actually takes steps to improve her character more than Ophelia did (and whilst I'd love to name other Nohrian kids for this, the only ones I managed to recruit and get to know other than Soleil, Ophelia and Siegbert are Sophie and Nina). She takes steps to try to be a better friend to Ophelia after she learns she was just causing her stress, she and Nina compete over their personal sexual preferences but in spite of their initial arguing, they actually compromise and come to have mature discussions regarding the merits of each side without getting too aggressive. She has a habit of mimicking her father's flirtatious behaviour, but I'm willing to dismiss it because she's not trying to be something she's not, even though a fair few traits of hers seem radically identical, it feels more like she grew into it as opposed to Ophelia mimicking Owain because she found it amusing as a child and never let go of it. Soleil's growth just feels more natural to me.

I thing I wrote an essay just now. ^-^; Whoops... ^-^;

If I had to omit one, it'd be Shigure.

Truthfully I'd be fine with a completely new cast, but I AM a sucker for returning characters, so I shared my opinions. Anyone agree with my points?

I have not proofread this, nor do I wish to, if I fucked up grammatically somewhere, I'll just let it kill me slowly when I find it.

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Here's the one I'm talking about: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html - you can see that, outside of Chrom, Lucina and Robin, the ones on top are the ones that came back in Fates.

Indeed. I love Awakening, but there are many things that needs to be done about its formula. Remaking the support system is high on that list; I think some shipping can be fun and helps with replayability, but the way it is now hurts the characterization of a lot of the cast.

Oh I see what my problem was, I was looking at the Fates popularity poll where she ranked 17th. But now I'm just wondering why didn't they just use Lon'qu, he was real close and he already looks like the equivalent of a Hoshidan. He'd definitely look more like Saizo's kid in any case in my opinion.

I doubt this is a trend just yet, but I don't want IS exploiting it just to get money. I agree on your points as well, while I don't love Awakening, I like it for bringing in some old mechanics that Fates kinda jumbled with and many people got tired of.

EDIT

@Light I need to honestly check for new posts while I'm typing but I see your point. The father-son dynamic I feel is more prevalent through Saizo's part, but while I see your points on your characters. I rather doubt any would actually make it. Siegbert is heir to Nohr after Xander, Shigure is basically like a Lucina as he's the female main character's royal child, Asugi is rather low in popularity and you'd be hardpressed to recreate a character thrice and Soleil while possible, is a slightly more obnoxious version of her dad from his Awakening days.

Edited by Raguna

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I hope this is not a new trend. Unless IS does it properly. The Awakening characters were blatantly shoehorned in where completely original characters would've fit just fine. This really annoyed me, and I'm an Inigo and Severa fan.

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I really hope not. Leaving aside my personal distaste for multiverses in fiction, I'd rather have all new characters instead of just reusing people who were popular in the last game.

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Oh I see what my problem was, I was looking at the Fates popularity poll where she ranked 17th. But now I'm just wondering why didn't they just use Lon'qu, he was real close and he already looks like the equivalent of a Hoshidan. He'd definitely look more like Saizo's kid in any case in my opinion.

No no, I should've clarified that I talked about the Awakening poll. Damn, man, you're always so polite and calm that I feel an instinctive need to apologize to you so I don't wrongfully upset you somehow.

Maybe the women just got more votes, or maybe they just decided on two men + one woman going to Nohr and two women + one man joining Hoshido.

I doubt this is a trend just yet, but I don't want IS exploiting it just to get money. I agree on your points as well, while I don't love Awakening, I like it for bringing in some old mechanics that Fates kinda jumbled with and many people got tired of.

Indeed. The baby realms have been no small subject of ridicule, for one.

I really hope not. Leaving aside my personal distaste for multiverses in fiction, I'd rather have all new characters instead of just reusing people who were popular in the last game.

I knew there was a reason why I liked you.

More seriously though, I agree. Multiverses can serve as a get out of jail free card for the writers, and if you want to start using it in the main story it can lead to all sorts of nonsense - there's a reason why the Awakening kids were called "The Three Idiots", I believe it was. It might work for some DLC, but that's about it.

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@Light I need to honestly check for new posts while I'm typing but I see your point. The father-son dynamic I feel is more prevalent through Saizo's part, but while I see your points on your characters. I rather doubt any would actually make it. Siegbert is heir to Nohr after Xander, Shigure is basically like a Lucina as he's the female main character's royal child, Asugi is rather low in popularity and you'd be hardpressed to recreate a character thrice and Soleil while possible, is a slightly more obnoxious version of her dad from his Awakening days.

Haha, it's fine. I've had to type this all out on a Wii U which is a little annoying because some features don't seem to respond correctly.

I can see what you mean regarding Siegbert, but I'm sure that it could be explained simply enough. Xander being alive and well, Leo or Forrest covering any duties in the meantime. Heck, perhaps it's a mission he's been tasked by Xander that results in placement in your army for the time being (assuming the same-world idea is used).

Regarding Asugi, I was kinda skeptical about him being somewhat well-received as well. I suppose it might just be a sentimentality to it, though now that I think about it, his behaviour in HoF 3 is a little more highlighting of his attitude toward Saizo. I feel it'd be interesting to delve further into that mechanic after he's matured more and we've seen how he changes. We see how Severa still holds some resentment for Cordelia in Fates but she's gotten largely past that for example, and with Severa having a mother that's so perfect at everything, the inferiority complex she developed does make sense. The relationship between Asugi and Saizo, however isn't like that because we acknowledge that Saizo isn't perfect from the get-go, so Asugi could hold resentment to him for him seeming self-righteous and it'd be logically sound.

Shigure, I think I just want to see actually develop into something. It doesn't feel like he's his own person to some degrees (though I like that he's a painter since that's something unique for him). Seeing him develop would be a huge reason to bring him back in my opinion.

I suppose another supporting idea to Soleil could actually be a parallel to Asugi in that she's literally the opposite in terms of her relationship with her father, but honestly, the only thing I find particularly annoying about her is that she doesn't tone down immediately after being told to stop. It's a little annoying that a heavy chunk of conversations tell her to stop flirting with the women she's interacting with.

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Guys, you need to chill. This is the first game that had this happen before. I think they did it pretty good here actually, but I like the game to stand on its own.

But Anna must return or im gonna cry

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I knew there was a reason why I liked you.

More seriously though, I agree. Multiverses can serve as a get out of jail free card for the writers, and if you want to start using it in the main story it can lead to all sorts of nonsense - there's a reason why the Awakening kids were called "The Three Idiots", I believe it was. It might work for some DLC, but that's about it.

5j0JU8C.png

I started ambivalent, but then Marvel and DC happened so now I can't stand them at all.

Guys, you need to chill. This is the first game that had this happen before. I think they did it pretty good here actually, but I like the game to stand on its own.

But Anna must return or im gonna cry

The multiverse thing started in Awakening, so that's two games now. It's too late for them to change it, but they can pretend it never happened.

Edited by Phillius

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Guys, you need to chill. This is the first game that had this happen before. I think they did it pretty good here actually, but I like the game to stand on its own.

But Anna must return or im gonna cry

In two out of three routes the Awakening kids go against literally their only mission and reason for being in that world, and the DLC that came after Revelation shows they should've been far more active in the plot than they were. That's not a very good track record.

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Guys, you need to chill. This is the first game that had this happen before. I think they did it pretty good here actually, but I like the game to stand on its own.

But Anna must return or im gonna cry

Specify "this".

Because characters returning has been happening since FE2.

Sure, not every entry did it, FE8 for example, but it's pretty common in the series in general from what I've seen/read. Granted, everything up to Fates was literally the same realm but the point kinda stands.

Of course if you're referring to interrealm crossovers... then, yeah, this is the first time and I should shut my face.

Edited by Light Strategist

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Multiverses have been a thing in this series since FE7, and honestly, as little sense as it can make such as the Awakening trio being idiots in two routes, I like using outrealms to get old characters back because I'm a huge fan of returning characters.

That said, FE15 should NOT do this again. Doing it once after a successful game already looked tacky as hell, so doing it twice in a row is just a bad move. Prove FE can keep a steady success rate, THEN start doing this.

Unless you bring Tiki back, in which case I'm okay with it

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Of course if you're referring to interrealm crossovers... then, yeah, this is the first time and I should shut my face.

You forgot about Awakening with both Tiki (semi in her case, as it was the passage of time) and Priam, whose mere existence implies that Ike had somehow crossed over at some point

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Guys, you need to chill. This is the first game that had this happen before. I think they did it pretty good here actually, but I like the game to stand on its own.

But Anna must return or im gonna cry

Actually, it's not that uncommon.

The Pegauses Sisters and Camus from the first game appear as playable characters in FE2, and they are quite popular.

Ced from FE4, appears as a playable character in FE5, and I'm pretty sure it's because of his popularity. And there's a "clone" of sorts of a FE4 character in FE5.

There's also a lot of FE1 expies in FE6.

There are other examples, but as you can see, it's not uncommon in the Fire Emblem series for a character to reappear in future games and to have expies of other characters.

But if characters return, there could more creative reasons for them to appear.

Say, for example, if FE15 is still in Fates's continent, it could be about a war in the northen part of the continent, and characters like Niles and Kaze could appear as playable characters. They could be like Matthew in Lyn's story in FE7, they would acting as spies from Nohr and Hoshido.

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I doubt we'd get many picks considering JP just used the highest popularity ranked kids from Japan to bring over and doing it with Fates would be weird. Discounting the royals who would need a pretty insane excuse to be not managing their countries. The likeliest candidates to come over if this ever does happen is Oboro who placed 3rd, Jakob who placed 4th and Niles who placed 7th. If they added a fourth character it would be a contention point between Odin or Flora as they both got 8th in their male and female poll specifically. As for the kid characters, we'd get Forrest, Nina, Ophelia and possibly Soleil unless they switch her in for Dwyer to keep an equal gender ratio. In either case, the Exalt line would still continue through Ophelia.

This next part is more subjective but even some other characters feel like they page homage to Awakening characters. Tsubaki and Hayato feel like a better Cordelia and a slightly more mature Ricken. Jakob seems like he took a tip from Frederick but turned into a jerk. Felicia is Sumia as a maid and Siegbert just feels like a mix of Chrom and a teen Xander. I think there could be more, but these illustrate my point either way.

There are sufficient characters that I think are pretty new, but I think it doesn't stop with Awakening with just the trio and expies. I honestly just want new characters to feel like themselves and not others. You can definitely take inspiration from past characters, heck that's what the archetypes like Cain and Abel are used for, but I'd prefer not a copy paste.

EDIT:

They could mess around a bit with the characters however since from what I see the only Hoshidan I see is Oboro. Selkie is the closest bet for Hoshidan girls and Shiro for a Hoshidan boy. As for a parent gen Hoshidan male, we'd get Kaze.

If I can be honest, I never felt that (T)Subaki and Hayato were just better clones of Cordelia and Rickeb: yes they share the same gimmick and class(in Hayato's case, his supports with Corrin is very similar to the one between Ricken and Robin), but, aside from that, what else they have in common?

Also, I have another question: May I ask what Siegbert takes from Chrom?

Not to be rude of course, I'm asking this because I don't see much similarities between the two and I personally feel like that Siegbert takes more inspiration from character like Marth or Elincia.

Anyway Siegbert could actually have a decent reason to be in the next game, since, in his epilogue, It's said that he traveled around the world, after the events of Conquest/ Revelation.

Again, I apologize if I seem to be rude.

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Imo that would suck. I wouldn't want Fates characters coming back for a next title if this title wouldn't have anything related story-wise to Fates.

Because if it's like Fates where you get to have the most popular characters from Awakening thanks to a poll this sucks. This is just pitiful fanservice just for fanservice.

Honestly, giving us weapons referencing previous titles was better and got a nostalgic vibe. But here it's ridiculous, Awakening isn't even THAT old.

However if there's a plot connection, why not, but it'd better be a good one.

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