SPOILERS Will we see the return of certain characters?

[Acacia Sgt]

36 minutes ago, Jotari said:

On the general topic of Camus, why did he feel the need to invent a second alias when he returned to Archanea? Was he afraid someone would recognise him as Zeke for some reason? And why would that be problematic? Course the only ones who would should be able to recognise him are the whitewings who would just as likely recognised him as Camus. I wonder if they'll address that in Echoes. I doubt he ever even talked to them in the original Gaiden. Also a shame they didn't give him a support with one of them in New Mystery.

Oh yeah to harp on about the whole time issue again, Est has broken away from the whitings and is apparently living with Abel in the sequel. This  means her escapade with the pirates (and Gaiden's plot by extension) must have happened before she got into that relationship or Abel chose not to go after and reduce her with Palla and Catria.

Not afraid of being recognized as Zeke, but instead recognized as Camus. As for why, it's likely because by the time he recovered his memories, he had effectively established a new life in Valentia with Teeta/Tatiana, and he felt it would do no good to drag back the past if he went about announcing he was still alive. He's willing to tie loose ends, but nothing more, hence his return to Valentia at game's end (he outright tells Nyna there's someone waiting for him). It's unlikely the White Wings saw him since they don't actually join the same party. Besides, it's not like it was really that easy to recognize him. If even people like Belf couldn't at first...

Well, there's a year between the events in Valentia and the events of Book 2. That's plenty of time, I'd guess.

27 minutes ago, Ronman5 said:

For the whole Camus subject.. I could believe this one crackpot theory you all could have left out... What if after His defeat, he slipped into a coma, woke up and decided to cross the ocean to Valentia with some pirates/merchants (aka people who might have found him) then a storm hit killing everyone but him and through his luck he ended up on the shores of Valentia, right where Teeta (who in the original game was a Nyna recolor lol...) and boom! Plot?! 

Also minor spoiler but in the end of Gaiden it says that "perhaps he remembered his identity" when he left at the end of Gaiden, and when he left decided to check up on Grust, but created Sirus as in Gaiden, no one really knew his face (except the above mentioned Whitewings, but Zeke is seen in Alms route, not Celicas... the only time they might have seen each other was during the final climatic battle.. and those 4 might have been prepoccupied to notice each other) so he wore a mask, and created Sirius.. though why did he not stick to Zeke is beyond me... but I wonder when he comes back to Valentia (through ending in NME he is said to have disappeared possibly to a new land.. a game after meeting Teeta) does he tell Teeta his identity of Camus?

I would think as well there had to have been a ship voyage involved. The distance Rigel and Grust is too great. But well, who knows.

According to Teeta's ending in Gaiden, he never tells her. In fact, considering the way Zeke's ending is worded, it seems he never tells anyone he recovered his lost memories.

[Aurabolt]

I'd switch the question around: Will anyone make a cameo appearance or reference who wasn't in the original? I think so and the more I think about it, the more likely I think it will be a few more chars from FE1 or Mystery of the Emblem. We got confirmation there will be more characters in Echoes so it's possible.

I think IS will have to be real careful with how they handle Camus in particular: He's character only those familiar with FE1 and FE2 would really know about. I think they will approach him in Echoes one of three ways:
 

1. Add an "accomplice" (doesn't have to be anyone important) who knows who he really is to explain to Alm's team he can fight despite having amnesia.
2. Camus doesn't have amnesia but simply hides his true identity. He left Archaeaa by ship and found himself on Valentia. He will also vaguely reference his homeland without giving away where he comes from (most likely IMO).
3. Bare-Bones explaination for why he's on Valentia (What I'm expecting being honest).

 

...The Whitewings will definitey be back. I just happen to also think we will see other FE Chars make an appearance is all. You don't necessarily need the Outrealms to use chars from FE1 or FE2 though.

 

 

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not afraid of being recognized as Zeke, but instead recognized as Camus. As for why, it's likely because by the time he recovered his memories, he had effectively established a new life in Valentia with Teeta/Tatiana, and he felt it would do no good to drag back the past if he went about announcing he was still alive. He's willing to tie loose ends, but nothing more, hence his return to Valentia at game's end (he outright tells Nyna there's someone waiting for him). It's unlikely the White Wings saw him since they don't actually join the same party. Besides, it's not like it was really that easy to recognize him. If even people like Belf couldn't at first...

Well, there's a year between the events in Valentia and the events of Book 2. That's plenty of time, I'd guess.

I would think as well there had to have been a ship voyage involved. The distance Rigel and Grust is too great. But well, who knows.

According to Teeta's ending in Gaiden, he never tells her. In fact, considering the way Zeke's ending is worded, it seems he never tells anyone he recovered his lost memories.

Well obviously he doesn't want to be recognised as Camus but he could have just as easily walked around Archanea calling himself Zeke and it would be just as meaningless to everyone he meets as the name Sirius is.

[RedEyedDrake]

Except then both continents would have a person named Zeke with the Archanean one looking very similar to the Valentian one. Why risk the association when he can avoid it?

Also, maybe Camus' initial trip from Archanea to Valentia was in the same position that Est was in? As in, he was picked up by slave traders. Then the ship got destroyed in a storm and you can figure out how it goes from there.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, RedEyedDrake said:

Except then both continents would have a person named Zeke with the Archanean one looking very similar to the Valentian one. Why risk the association when he can avoid it?

Also, maybe Camus' initial trip from Archanea to Valentia was in the same position that Est was in? As in, he was picked up by slave traders. Then the ship got destroyed in a storm and you can figure out how it goes from there.

Why would association with his Zeke identity be at all detrimental to him? It would only help suggest he's not Camus which it seems he's very obviously is. That one guy from the Sable Order and Nyna  manage to recognise him on the spot.

[RedEyedDrake]

I meant that there would be an association between a 'Zeke' that was active on the Archanean continent and the one that is well known on the Valentian one. In fact, it might have created trouble for the newly created United Kingdom of Valentia, and thus for the newly crowned Alm and Celica, and not just for Camus' new life with Tatiana.

Edited January 22, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Why would association with his Zeke identity be at all detrimental to him? It would only help suggest he's not Camus which it seems he's very obviously is. That one guy from the Sable Order and Nyna  manage to recognise him on the spot.

Because word could spread. Even if Valentia and Archanea are continents with the ocean between them, it doesn't mean there's no contact. If we take Awakening's map at face value, then they're not really that far apart, so contact could exist even back in Marth's time. Or something like that. And for Camus, who refused to even reveal he recovered his memories, probably felt that if he did stuff as Zeke over in Archanea, once word come back, it would be detrimental to keep hiding that. Heck, he's likely to already have to explain why he disappeared for what would be months up to a year, depending on how he left Valentia and how long Book 2 was.

[Pete-of-the-Forge]

8 hours ago, Aurabolt said:

I'd switch the question around: Will anyone make a cameo appearance or reference who wasn't in the original?

I was just going to ask something like this!

Personally, II would be interesting to see something like Athena (a foreigner to Archanea) popping up in a sort of proto-Chon'sin.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Pete-of-the-Forge

[Hardin]

Athena would be a good choice for a returning character, she always shows up in weird places. 

If they do decide to add axe fighters, I would like to see Darros show up. Being a sailor, I always felt he would be one of the easier characters to bring over. 

[RedEyedDrake]

@Hardin:

...Oh snap. Barst. Barst's voyages between the two games, man.

And maybe even have Malice and ol' Pops pop up for the shizzles.

Edited January 22, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Hardin]

I just feel Darros needs the love more than Barst. 

[The DanMan]

I always thought the reason for Camus' appearance was "Divine dragons, bruh" and thought nothing else of it.

[RedEyedDrake]

@Hardin:

I never said anything against Darros, though. I just thought that if that is a plausible excuse for Darros to show up then why not Barst as well?

[Hardin]

You don't want to add too many Archanean characters though. Valentia needs to be allowed to develop its own cast of characters. 

[RedEyedDrake]

I understand that but come now. Barst, Darros, Dice and Malice are comperatively low tier in importance. They are below even the likes of Bantu or Julian. Even if the former is only as high on the importance tiers because of his connection to Tiki . And not only are characters like these low tier in importance but they come from the fringes of society as well. So if anyone has to make an appearance it would make sense for it to be characters like these.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

I understand that but come now. Barst, Darros, Dice and Malice are comperatively low tier in importance. They are below even the likes of Bantu or Julian. Even if the former is only as high on the importance tiers because of his connection to Tiki . And not only are characters like these low tier in importance but they come from the fringes of society as well. So if anyone has to make an appearance it would make sense for it to be characters like these.

Why do they need to ne of high tier importance? I should think the lower importance the more suitable since it would infringe less on established canon. Though honestly I don't think it actually makes a difference. Popularity is the defining key for things like this. While we're on the subject I made a thread about this basic idea except covering the entire series. 

 

[RedEyedDrake]

They need to not be of high importance because then they'd really overshadow the Valentian cast. For example, despite them being the sort whom we can see traveling far and wide if need be, Ogma and Navarre should not be appearing. Especially given that the Whitewings and Char, characters of quite the bit of prominence, are already in here.

Edited January 23, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[NeonZ]

On 22/01/2017 at 3:51 PM, RedEyedDrake said:

I understand that but come now. Barst, Darros, Dice and Malice are comperatively low tier in importance. They are below even the likes of Bantu or Julian. Even if the former is only as high on the importance tiers because of his connection to Tiki . And not only are characters like these low tier in importance but they come from the fringes of society as well. So if anyone has to make an appearance it would make sense for it to be characters like these.

The return of Jake!

Although this makes me wonder if we'll have recruitable Amiibo units again. This time Marth could be the one getting some unique dialogue.

[Nébulya]

Michalis is alive, so what if he'll be in this game? Doesn't the end game says he moved to another country i think?

[RedEyedDrake]

You know, I forgot to mention this but I hope that we will be a remix of Clash of Two Virtues as Zeke's personal battle theme. Well, maybe not personal but he'd be one of the characters for whom it gets used. Rudolf would be a good fit for it as well.

@Kirby:

The war between Rigel and Zofia takes place between the War of Shadows and the War of Heroes. Michalis was still in his coma at the time.

Edited February 1, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Jotari]

22 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

You know, I forgot to mention this but I hope that we will be a remix of Clash of Two Virtues as Zeke's personal battle theme. Well, maybe not personal but he will be one of the characters for whom it gets used. Rudolf would be a good fit for it as well.

@Kirby:

The war between Rigel and Zofia takes place between the War of Shadows and the War of Heroes. Michalis was still in his coma at the time.

I'm not sure if we ever get any conformation on how long Michalis was out of commission for but he appears alive and well in one of the DLC episodes set between the two games. Of course when that particular DLC takes place can be anywhere between a few weeks to a few seasons before New Mystery Starts. Maria seems to be kidnapped at least and Gharnef isn't revived yet (which coming to think of it, begs the question, who kidnapped her? Eremiya?)

[RedEyedDrake]

It makes more sense that Maria got kidnapped around the same time that Lena did, honestly. In fact, I'd say that the first DLC of FE12 takes place at some point in time between FE12's own chapters 3 and 7. As in, in that period of time and not any earlier than that.

It also makes more sense to me that the less time passes between Michalis waking up and chapter 3 the better as far as the logistics of no one realizing that he isn't dead go. Personally, I'd give him a month at the absolute most between waking up and setting off to get Minerva back from Rucke. You know, just so he'd have enough time to learn about Maria's disappearance, him get back into shape enough to ride a wyvern and learning enough about the political situation across the continent to suspect that Hardin is the one who provided Rucke with the means and opportunity to rebel as successfully as he has.

So yeah. The concept of him being awake at the time of the Valentian war, let alone active enough to travel there, is something that I find very hard to believe.

Edited January 31, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

It makes more sense that Maria got kidnapped around the same time that Lena did, honestly. In fact, I'd say that the first DLC of FE12 takes place at some point in time between FE12's own chapters 3 and 7. As in, in that period of time and not any earlier than that.

It also makes more sense to me that the less time passes between Michalis waking up and chapter 3 the better as far as the logistics of no one realizing that he isn't dead go. Personally, I'd give him a month at the absolute most between waking up and setting off to get Minerva back from Rucke. You know, just so he'd have enough time to learn about Maria's disappearance, him get back into shape enough to ride a wyvern and learning enough about the political situation across the continent to suspect that Hardin is the one who provided Rucke with the means and opportunity to rebel as successfully as he has.

So yeah. The concept of him being awake at the time of the Valentian war, let alone active enough to travel there, is something that I find very hard to believe.

Much as I like the idea of DLC being cocurrent chapters, Linde appears in that DLC and you get her fairly early in the game itself. And since Gharnef isn't revived it would also have to take place before the DLC where you get to play as him. Checking the script Merric also says something about returning to Nyna who is definitely not in control by the start of the game (though it's possible the news just hasn't reached Merric yet). Also Maria is a princess and thus it's pretty easy to gauge where she is while Lena is basically wandering about the place in much lower profile so I could easily believe she was harder to locate and thus was the last one captured.

[King Marth 64]

On 1/21/2017 at 7:45 AM, Othin said:

Marth is still the icon of Fire Emblem. They don't have some vendetta against Shadow Dragon characters.

Bringing in Awakening characters certainly wouldn't make sense, since Echoes takes place thousands of years before Awakening.

I'm pretty sure you might have forgotten that there's the Outrealm Gate existed that can travel in through time. The Fates DLC Before Awakening did have Corrin's team traveled through the Outrealm to Chrom's timeline preventing the Vallites to ruin Chrom's timeline also. I'm pretty sure we might have a new location in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia that will add Outrealm Gates and a spots for the legacy characters while unlocking with the other 6 Fire Emblem amiibos. I just hope they'll add Roy and Corrin in Echoes since it's disappointing that they didn't bother adding Roy to Fates (along with Super Mario Maker and CodeName S.T.E.A.M.) and make an Updated Patch for Fates also.

Edited January 31, 2017 by King Marth 64

[RedEyedDrake]

@Jotari:

I'll admit to have made a certain mistake. Instead of 'between chapters 3 and 7' I should have said 'before chapter 2'.

Also, I really can't see Minerva letting Michalis wander about on his own if she could help it. Which would mean that she couldn't help it. Meaning that "Wind and Thunder" takes place after her capture by Rucke's forces. Which would then mean that Michalis in chapter 3 was simply him coming back from searching for Maria around Khadein in "Wind and Thunder" after he heard of what happened in Macedon. And that coupled with Lang's dialogue at the end of chapter 1 would imply that Rucke's rebellion was actually a very recent thing. Which would mean that Minerva's capture is a very recent thing. Which would then mean that Maria's capture is a very recent thing because I can't see Michalis having security lax enough for him to just escape and search for Maria on his own if Minerva had an opportunity to react to Maria's disappearance. Which is something she would have done immediately if she had the chance. And yet he did manage to escape with news of him being alive not spreading.

On top of that, 'Gharnef hasn't revived' doesn't mean anything. Why? Because he doesn't come back to true, fully corporeal life at any point over the course of the game. Even in chapter 23, what you destroy is his lingering soul. Also, Elice being captured gives Merric all the more reason to want to 'return to her', not less. And no, Lena is never low profile simply by virtue of being who she is. Not within the borders of Macedon or among people in positions of power withing the kingdom, anyway. Being a member of a noble family that is powerful enough to plan for her to be the crown prince's bride would do that to a person.

Edited February 1, 2017 by RedEyedDrake