SPOILERS Will we see the return of certain characters?

[Jagged Jagen]

Hi guys, so for those who have never played Gaiden/are unaware of the story, I recommend you leave this thread and go about your day, as there may be minor spoilers.

Anyhow, moving on, as some of you may recall, Gaiden, as a side story to the original Shadow Dragon, featured a few characters from that game. Namely, the white wings and Camus under the guise of Zeke. Do you think these characters will be kept in Gaiden, or do you think due to the subpar sales of SD they may be replaced with characters such as the Awakening trio, replaced all together, or simply omitted from the game.

[RedEyedDrake]

Ike is still in Smash Bros despite what Tellius caused in Japan, isn't he? And besides, removing them will be another screw up of the Kagaverse lore, something which I would like to limit to Awakening. Then again, who knows what sort of things IS will end up doing to try and justify what Awakening said about Valentia and Valm. I can only hope that what they decide to do about that angle ends up working, by some miracle of the universe.

Edited January 21, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Othin]

Marth is still the icon of Fire Emblem. They don't have some vendetta against Shadow Dragon characters.

Bringing in Awakening characters certainly wouldn't make sense, since Echoes takes place thousands of years before Awakening.

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, DeoGame said:

or do you think due to the subpar sales of SD

SD has sold over half a million units; it's one of the better selling games in the series. The reason NME wasn't localized was because it was a low-profile release right before the 3DS launch. The FE games with truly sub-par sales are Thracia, PoR, RD, and even SS (which was the game that really started the decline- FE7 did worse than 6 in Japan, but the Western release boosted it a lot).

I see absolutely no reason why the Whitewings and "Zeke"/Camus will get cut; this just feels like paranoia.

Edited January 21, 2017 by The DanMan

[RedEyedDrake]

Also, Zeke will surely provide us with new "I came here to laugh at you" material.

[Topaz Light]

Yes.

They're not even really "legacy characters"; Gaiden takes place in between Marth's two adventures on an adjacent continent. It's totally not unreasonable that there would be a few common characters to both stories.

Besides, the Whitewings and a certain blond Paladin both had reasonably significant roles in Gaiden—well, by NES game plot standards, anyway—so they couldn't very well just be cut without it being noticeable.

And there is also the fact that Marth is the face of the series, and he and his games are iconic of the series; especially so in Japan, where the game is being made.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

As if they are going to cut out some of Akaneia's most popular characters. Everybody in Japan has the hots for the White Wings, and Camus/Zeke/Sirius is immensely popular for being OP.

[Jagged Jagen]

Good points all around, thanks for the answers.

[escotanner]

No way! The Whitewings and Camus will still totally in the game. Fe12 confirmed that Camus will come back after all.

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, Topaz Light said:

Yes.

They're not even really "legacy characters"; Gaiden takes place in between Marth's two adventures on an adjacent continent. It's totally not unreasonable that there would be a few common characters to both stories.

Besides, the Whitewings and a certain blond Paladin both had reasonably significant roles in Gaiden—well, by NES game plot standards, anyway—so they couldn't very well just be cut without it being noticeable.

And there is also the fact that Marth is the face of the series, and he and his games are iconic of the series; especially so in Japan, where the game is being made.

Well I find it particularly unreasonable to believe that Camus managed to unconsciously cross the ocean and wash up on another continent after his battle with Marth. Hook up with a chick and establish himself as a high ranking member of the army, fight in a continent spanning war, somehow hear word that Grust is in trouble before Marth does and then travel back to Archanea all within a three year span. But such contrivances are easily hand waved for the sake of fanservice.

I'd probably be happier if Valencia was a different universe to Archanea and they used some outrealm justification for the cameos. Or if they continued the trend and kept each continent as the same world at the same time period with cameos one or two characters from the last continuity. The way Gaiden both is and isn't part of Archenea just bugs me slightly. Far more than it should really.

[Othin]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well I find it particularly unreasonable to believe that Camus managed to unconsciously cross the ocean and wash up on another continent after his battle with Marth. Hook up with a chick and establish himself as a high ranking member of the army, fight in a continent spanning war, somehow hear word that Grust is in trouble before Marth does and then travel back to Archanea all within a three year span. But such contrivances are easily hand waved for the sake of fanservice.

I'd probably be happier if Valencia was a different universe to Archanea and they used some outrealm justification for the cameos. Or if they continued the trend and kept each continent as the same world at the same time period with cameos one or two characters from the last continuity. The way Gaiden both is and isn't part of Archenea just bugs me slightly. Far more than it should really.

Given that Awakening spans both Archanea and Valencia, that change would be incredibly strange.

[Jotari]

Just now, Othin said:

Given that Awakening spans both Archanea and Valencia, that change would be incredibly strange.

Oh no, I'm not suggesting they change that. Just what I would have liked the case to be from the start. Nothing can be done about it now.

[The Malign Knight]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The way Gaiden both is and isn't part of Archenea just bugs me slightly. Far more than it should really.

May I ask what do you mean with the "Both is and isn't part of"? Idk why, It just makes me so confused, for some strange reasons

Anyway, I don't see why they would cut the White wings and Zeke considering that they are universally loved characters from the Akaneia universe

 

[RedEyedDrake]

@Jotari:

I don't think there is any indication that Camus actually heard of anything being wrong in Grust. I think he just felt that he had to go and make sure that everything was fine with the aftermath of the War of Shadows and everything. But I'm pretty sure that nothing indicates that he had actual evidence of anything.

[Captain Karnage]

I think we'll see amiibo compatibility like we did in Fates, but removing ZekeZeke would do more damage to FE3'S plot

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, The Malign Knight said:

May I ask what do you mean with the "Both is and isn't part of"? Idk why, It just makes me so confused, for some strange reasons

Anyway, I don't see why they would cut the White wings and Zeke considering that they are universally loved characters from the Akaneia universe

 

Well just the way it's so wholly separate from Archanea in terms of plot and even mechanics. As much as any other continent is separated from any other continent. Yet it still kind of gets lumped in with Archanea because the cameos made them physically linked while the other continents are seen to be separated by large periods of time or possibly not even being in the same world. When it comes to stuff like that I just enjoy consistency. If every continent was as connected to each other in the same way it won't irk me at all. 

12 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

@Jotari:

I don't think there is any indication that Camus actually heard of anything being wrong in Grust. I think he just felt that he had to go and make sure that everything was fine with the aftermath of the War of Shadows and everything. But I'm pretty sure that nothing indicates that he had actual evidence of anything.

Well then his sense of concern seems to borderline on the supernatural considering he some how manages to be guarding the royal heirs when we meet him in FE3. That's some impressive timing at any rate.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well then his sense of concern seems to borderline on the supernatural considering he some how manages to be guarding the royal heirs when we meet him in FE3. That's some impressive timing at any rate.

To be fair, we don't really know when he came back. And actually, he doesn't. Ogma is the one guarding them. He starts as an enemy unit, and Ogma can talk to him. He sees the kids, tells Ogma the Altean Army is coming to save them, and offers to give Ogma time for him and the kids to escape to where Marth is, and switches from red to blue.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair, we don't really know when he came back. And actually, he doesn't. Ogma is the one guarding them. He starts as an enemy unit, and Ogma can talk to him. He sees the kids, tells Ogma the Altean Army is coming to save them, and offers to give Ogma time for him and the kids to escape to where Marth is, and switches from red to blue.

I imagine he was out there specifically looking for them. If he did just happen to stumble on them then by accident then it'd be incredibly contrived. Him spending a lot of time in Archanea before hand also doesn't help matters much since the most unreasonable thing about the story is the time frame in which he managed to travel between two continents twice, raise through the ranks of a foreign military and fight a war. Three years certainly isn't impossible for all those things but it does push the boundary of it. Maybe we'll get more details in Shadows of Valencia (I'm guessing he must have received quite a few battle field promotions and impressed Rudolf with his strength ala the Black Knight and Ashnard). How he managed to get to Valencia in the first place would be interesting to know too. Since he apparently just washed up there with amnesia. Did he float across the ocean with a blow to his head from that battle? If so that's pretty ridiculous but also strangely badass. Alternatively, did he just say feck it to fighting after receiving a critical injury, took a boat to Valencia and then randomly get knocked on the head and fell overboard when they were close to shore? More plausible but also somewhat out of character for him.

[RedEyedDrake]

I'd say that the supposed killing blow knocked him into a river or something as well as into a coma of sorts and then he was swept away into the ocean where he drifted on some debris. It was a miracle that he wasn't eaten by sharks or something but still. Then he washed up in Valentia and got brought out of his coma by Tatiana.

Also, the most efficient way of beating Camus on the highest difficulty of Shadow Dragon is to OHKO him with a Ridersbane and the Triange Attack. Meaning that one of the Whitewings would have to deliver the killing blow (I figure that based Palla would make the most in-universe sense out of the three). Maybe they'll canonize that approach in Shadows of Valentia?

[Acacia Sgt]

I would agree it would be interesting to see them fleshing out that part of his story.

For my part, I would consider the most/only contrive thing is that Grust is in south Archanea, and Rigel is in north Valentia, and both continents are leveled to each other. So that's quite the distance. Washing up in Zofia would've been more sensical, if only due to being closer to Grust than Rigel is. Other than that, I don't really see problems with his story in-between the Archanean games.

[Dandy Druid]

I don't see why we wouldn't. Aside from Alm and Celica, they're the only characters that got any real development in Gaiden, and it's probably due to them being in other FEs. They're part of the story, and it may awkward to replace them. The whole reason the Whitewing sisters are there is because Est was kidnapped by pirates. They can just bring in 3 new girls and say the youngest was captured in a battle, but these 4 characters are popular enough for fans to raise a big stink about them not appearing.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

I'd say that the supposed killing blow knocked him into a river or something as well as into a coma of sorts and then he was swept away into the ocean where he drifted on some debris. It was a miracle that he wasn't eaten by sharks or something but still. Then he washed up in Valentia and got brought out of his coma by Tatiana.

Also, the most efficient way of beating Camus on the highest difficulty of Shadow Dragon is to OHKO him with a Ridersbane and the Triange Attack. Meaning that one of the Whitewings would have to deliver the killing blow (I figure that based Palla would make the most in-universe sense out of the three). Maybe they'll canonize that approach in Shadows of Valentia?

How do you suppose he ate during that sea voyage? Either the journey between oceans was immense short (like a matter of days without a boat) or Camus' stats are simply so good he doesn't require nourishment.

[UNLEASH IT]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

How do you suppose he ate during that sea voyage? Either the journey between oceans was immense short (like a matter of days without a boat) or Camus' stats are simply so good he doesn't require nourishment.

I'm going with this. I'll even go further and say that he was merely pretending to be gravely wounded when in actuality, it was just a light scratch with some open ketchup packets. Camus/Sirius is a really good actor.

[Jotari]

On the general topic of Camus, why did he feel the need to invent a second alias when he returned to Archanea? Was he afraid someone would recognise him as Zeke for some reason? And why would that be problematic? Course the only ones who would should be able to recognise him are the whitewings who would just as likely recognised him as Camus. I wonder if they'll address that in Echoes. I doubt he ever even talked to them in the original Gaiden. Also a shame they didn't give him a support with one of them in New Mystery.

Oh yeah to harp on about the whole time issue again, Est has broken away from the whitings and is apparently living with Abel in the sequel. This  means her escapade with the pirates (and Gaiden's plot by extension) must have happened before she got into that relationship or Abel chose not to go after and reduce her with Palla and Catria.

[Ronman5]

For the whole Camus subject.. I could believe this one crackpot theory you all could have left out... What if after His defeat, he slipped into a coma, woke up and decided to cross the ocean to Valentia with some pirates/merchants (aka people who might have found him) then a storm hit killing everyone but him and through his luck he ended up on the shores of Valentia, right where Teeta (who in the original game was a Nyna recolor lol...) and boom! Plot?! 

Also minor spoiler but in the end of Gaiden it says that "perhaps he remembered his identity" when he left at the end of Gaiden, and when he left decided to check up on Grust, but created Sirus as in Gaiden, no one really knew his face (except the above mentioned Whitewings, but Zeke is seen in Alms route, not Celicas... the only time they might have seen each other was during the final climatic battle.. and those 4 might have been prepoccupied to notice each other) so he wore a mask, and created Sirius.. though why did he not stick to Zeke is beyond me... but I wonder when he comes back to Valentia (through ending in NME he is said to have disappeared possibly to a new land.. a game after meeting Teeta) does he tell Teeta his identity of Camus?

Edited January 22, 2017 by Ronman5