Unit-Type Buff Teams

[Stopwatch]

Discussion Thread for the Best Worst idea for teams possible - Buff Armor/Cavalry/Fliers teams. I'd like to discuss character picks and strengths/weaknesses.

I don't know every character on 

The upside being the massive buffs from skills like Ward/Goad/Fortify/Hone. The Downside being that all three non-infantry types have very noticeable weaknesses. Armored has poor resistance and 1 movement plus Armorslayers/Hammers/Heavy Spears, Fliers are weak to bows (!!! Like Takumi !!!), etc. Not too sure about the cavalry's flaws. They're weak to ColorWolf magic, but that kind is not too often seen in the arena (can't think of any examples that I've seen). I take that with a grain of salt though - maybe my 4* Sully being a bit underwhelming ruined cavalry for me. That's beside the point.  

Armored

I admit I have nothing to say about an All-Armor team (I haven't drawn any armored units except Draug) aside from it would get destroyed by a team with more than one mage or armor slaying weapon. The weak speed doesn't help. Hector and Effie are both pretty good on their own though.

Fliers

As for Fliers, I'm looking at a team of 5* Minerva, 4*Caeda, 4*Palla, and probably either 4*Shanna or 4*Florina.  (Perhaps any of those could be replaced with 5* Camilla, imo, but i don't have her. Furthermore, the more wyverns there are, the higher the damage is but the lower the resistance is of the party.) Of those 6 Units, only Minerva, Caeda, and Palla have buff fliers skills, Minerva and Caeda with defensive buffs and Palla with offensive buff. Caeda also has Rally Speed and an Armorslayer. The pick between Shanna and Florina is between Florina's Heavy Spear/Breath of Life and Shanna's Threaten Speed / Iceberg + Killer Lance.

The following characters I have but don't consider to be viable in this team because they don't synergize well or do something others can do better: Cherche (Minerva or Camilla are both better Green Fliers, Minerva even has better Defense Buffs.), Beruka (Doesn't bring much team play to the table, lunge is meh, her best quality is Killer Axe + Glimmer imo), Est (The Heavy spear florina has, the speed debuff Shanna has. She only has Shove to her name.), Narcian (Camilla already has Savage Blow and guaranteeed followups on everyone, not just lancers. Minerva provides buffs to fliers.).

Weakness: Takumi destroys these parties. Two of them nearly invalidates the whole idea. Basically, your only hope is for Brave Axe Camilla or Desperation Shanna to kill him. If anyone has weapon advantage and isn't a mage, forget about it. Not gonna lie, the lack of magic damage also really puts this team behind.

Strength: The pegasi should be able to take out any mages except perhaps Merric with Rexcalibur+, but who uses Merric? If Minerva or Camilla get a shot on Robin/Linde, they're doomed. The hope here is that the big buffs that Minerva, Caeda, and Palla deal out will be enough for your lance pegasus to deal with any pesky Ryomas, Lyns, or Lucinas. (But I wouldn't get my hopes up on that.)

I'm not too big a fan of this one. It just seems like it'll be a real struggle, but the lack of terrain effects on movement might make it pretty easy to abuse AI. Don't even consider this as an option for a defense team- a Flier by your name seems like it would make anyone with a Takumi or any other archer flock to you like moths to a flame that they deal bonus damage to.

Edit: Completely forgot Cordelia. She would make this team quite a bit better- Galeforce and Brave Lance does that. Triangle Adept makes her kill reds better and Pass is better on her than basically anyone because of Galeforce.

Cavalry

This one seems not so bad, honestly. The 3 movement spaces are much appreciated, so they close distances to archers and mages real good.

As for myself, the team is looking like 4* Eliwood, 4* Gunter or Frederick, 4* Jagen, and 4* Cecilia. Pick between Gunter and his Luna and +6 ATT/SPD on Cavs (kreygasm) plus nice situational ability Harsh Command and Armored Blow for the cavalry charge, or Frederick's much worse +4 Defense in exchange for Hammer and Wings of Mercy. Cecilia is a must for Magic damage and range, plus Rally Resistance and advantage against Taku- I mean colorless foes. Eliwood is nice to have, Holy Vestments, +4 Def/Res on Cavs is nice, AxeBreaker is cool. Durandal is nice if you have 5*. He's just nice. But consider exchanging for Cain if you have him, since Brave Sword effectively IS Axebreaker, Threaten Attack is potentially better than the Ward (Once you get into the battle that is- if you want a cavalry charge all at once then the ward is conveniently already in play), and Escutcheon is just as/more helpful than Holy Vestments. Jagen has surprisingly good resistance and also Buffs def/res +6 to adjacent cavalry. Personally, I'd take a 5* Cain over 5* Eliwood, and Gunter over Frederick for the attack and speed boost. Also, Leo would probably be better than Cecilia. Brynhildr is killer against such a fast team, he does good damage and chips everyone with savage blow. Quick Riposte you can take or leave. Again though, Cecilia has advantage over bows(!), staves, and knives.

Strengths: This team comp closes the distance and always gets the first licks in on the enemy. It's fast enough to have the units who were in the back take out the enemy's front line and the units in the front hit the squishy back line behind it. Horseslaying tomes are rare, and horseslaying melee weapons either do not exist or are not common enough that I have seen them.

Weaknesses: Unless you have Leo, this team has two green units. That's not very good in a meta where reds are very strong. Forests aren't very good for this team, and anyone on offense against this team has the option on a handful of maps (the one(s) with forests in the corner in such a way that mounted units cannot attack at range one) to have a mage or archer camp there after killing your magic unit and chip your AI team to death. Possible, but unlikely considering they have to kill your mage and set up by taking two entire turns to move there.

I like the ideas for this team comp the most out of all these three, since the strategies that beat it are less popular and powerful than the ones that would beat fliers or armors. I'd say that the only thing it lacks is an excellent answer for Takumi, the best being Gunter's Warding Blow closing down to him to minimize the close counter damage, and then have one more unit finish the job.

 

Thank you for reading this long post. Please discuss/critique if you will.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Stopwatch

[eclipse]

The flier/armor weaknesses are apparent, so I'll blather on about cavalry.  The upside is that they have ~options~.  Cain/Abel have Brave weapons, while Stahl/Sully have repositioning and jewel weapons.  Clarine/Elise can be used as healers.  Jagen/Gunter can be used as an aurabot, though I prefer Gunter thanks to Harsh Command and Luna.  Frederick has the best armor-killing weapon (Effie/Hector are actual threats, while I have yet to see Draug used seriously).  Cecilia/Leo can fill the mage niche (but good luck pulling Leo).  Peri/Eliwood can attempt to tank mages.

Raigh can attempt to put a damper on this team, thanks to his special weapon.  However, there's only a handful of people who use him seriously.  Jagen/Peri should be more than enough to chase him down, and thanks to Aegis, Jagen doesn't give a crap.  Tree-heavy maps heavily dictate where the team goes.  A lack of bow users means that certain fliers become a threat (Camilla/Cordy/Catria. . .man, what's up with all the flying units whose names begin with C?).  I'd figure out some balance between utility, damage, and hilarity, and go from there.  Meanwhile, I will wait for my mounted bow users. . .because I really want a playable Rath!

[Othin]

Regarding Merric's level of relevance to fliers teams, I've personally found him to be very effective. I might stop using him once Hector catches up, though, because using multiple green units seems unwise with so many reds around.

I've heard good things about Cordelia's ability to take out enemy Takumis, so I'm inclined to agree that she's probably worthwhile for any fliers teams. Cavalry teams are probably the only ones with much promise, but at least fliers have more options than armors.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Othin

[Avestus]

10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

 I prefer Gunter thanks to Harsh Command and Luna.

 

1 hour ago, Stopwatch said:

.

Pick between Gunter and his Luna and +6 ATT/SPD on Cavs (kreygasm) plus nice situational ability Harsh Command and Armored Blow for the cavalry charge

But....my Gunter doesn't have Luna. Frederick does. Are you sure you didn't mistake them for one another?

[eclipse]

6 minutes ago, Avestus said:

 

But....my Gunter doesn't have Luna. Frederick does. Are you sure you didn't mistake them for one another?

Yep!  Forgot Gunter has Harsh Command, which is better for utility.

[Avestus]

I personally have thought quite a lot about all-cavalery team, I even upped my Gunter to 4* for this. It's hard to estimate its relative power in the Arena since all my relevant units are 4* though. And sadly I don't have Elliwood (but I do have: Abel, Freddy, Peri, Stahl). In my book Gunter should definitely be in the team both for the buffs and for his Harsh Command. Freddy serves a very important role with his Hammer. since the most dangerous knight in the meta is Effie with her "Wary Fighter" he is arguably the best cnadidate to have anti-armor weapon (and I wouldn't go into battle without anti-armor unit). Either Abel or Peri should take another place. It's both about the triangle and mage hunting. I'm not sure if Abel can do enough damage to everyone with his lower strength but it's worth a try. Anyway it's debatable who of them suits the role best. For the third place I would've taken Elliwood but in his absence Stahl is... well, actually he is nice. Swap can be used either for abusing the triangle or for giving extra move point to the unit of your choice. It's not as good as some other abilities of this kind (like Reposition) but it's still nice.

Well, even in my "reduced" version this team is extremely fun tp play. In terms of firewpower... i guess there are better options, but this one can be working too. 

[pianime94]

I might advise to use Clarine (equipped with no staff for defense) instead of Cecilia. Leo is just too rare atm. The thing is, Gunter really has problem with Res, and Eliwood's Def is middling at best. Having Clarine improves the team survivability and increases opponent's annoyance if they face the team on defense.

If you are to put Cain instead of Eliwood, that team will probably have a bit tougher time in battling mages. Mind that, Eliwood is the best anti-mage Cavalry the game has to offer atm (or second to Jagen). Cain can potentially be doubled by Taku- I mean, colorless foes and other speedy blue units (Cordelia, Azura, Sharena, etc) if not careful. Though, Gunter's buff mitigate Cain's tendency to get doubled.

In the end, to each their own I suppose. But I'd still prefer Eliwood over Cain because of his potential in doubling with 60 Atk and bulldoze through mages.

[Lushen]

I've been trying to make a cavalry team.  Really need Leo to make it work, but I've had some success.  I still use Eirika as an initial buffer and she can technically move more spaces than horses with her assist ability.  Really need Leo though (or Nintendo needs to release other good damage dealing horses).

Edited February 21, 2017 by Lushen

[Masai]

I can vouch for an cavalry team working successfully on offense. Team is currently made up of Cecilia, Gunter, Sully, and Eliwood, all 4*. (playing f2p, so feathers are comin' in slow....)

Experimented with Jagen and he's ok. Gunter does a better job of being an aurabot since +6 atk/spd almost guarantees no x2 attacks against the team, and his high def helps offset Ceci and Eli being physically squishy. Eli also gives +4 def/res, and that's been enough to prevent any OHKOs vs. neutral or adv. combat. I also wouldn't recommend both aurabots, since you definitely need that triangle adv with firepower to set up an EZ 1-2 turn sweep once enemies move into/just outside their threat range. Sorry Jagen. :(

Another cool combo with this comp is being able to rush a mage/archer on the enemy front line with Ceci and using Sully to pull her back out of the other enemies' threat range (provided they aren't also using horseys).

Based on current arena exp, +6 atk/spd Ceci easily deals with Takumi, M.Robin, and most tanks. +6 atk/spd Sully beats pretty much all swordies in one combat round, which is great since this team has two greens. Eliwood covers Camilla/Hector (this one is iffy, so the enemies need to initiate combat for safety). Basically, I haven't run into any problematic enemy team comps so far. 

Only (minor) problems in arena have been from maps hindering horsey movement (tree maps), but that really just forces me to play carefully and kite more to prevent an early Ceci or Gunter KO.

Spoiler

Arena aside, the final chapter was difficult. Veronica's AoE debuff reverse  completely destroys this team comp, so a lot of kiting, clever Gunter positioning, and tunnel vision on Veronica was required, lol.

I can't say much on the team's defense, except that there's a handful of successful defenses (230~250) each arena season, so something's working. (Or a just lot of fatal mis-clicks)

Haven't pulled Cain, Abel, Elise/Clarine from the RNG gods yet, so more experimentation is coming down the pipeline.

[Elieson]

[Take everything I'm saying as though I'm referring to Lv40 4* units, and assume a +/-3 to all numbers stated for High/Low nature modifiers)

As an avid Clarine user, I can add that Clarine's not exactly the most enticing unit until she's put to work with healing. Her damage output with Assault is pretty bad (in terms of Atk, she's got the lowest atk out of all the staffers sans Azama), but some utility exists with Fear and its -6 ATK debuff. I'd say I got more out of her Swift-Winds balm than I did out of any of my other Healbuffs, but it wasn't too often that I took damage and desperately needed that speed difference, due to running a fairly quick team. A Cavalry team featuring Ceci wants that +Spd though over the +Atk that Elise can offer though, because basically all 4* cavalry units other than Sully run less than 30 speed. The key is to have your team not get slaughtered when initially getting hit, because if Clarine is running SWB, she's only healing you for 7, or 7+whatever damage she's taken. She has a safe speed and slightly more bulk than Elise though, so I like taking her along because I can use her to absorb a hit here and there.

If you want a raw healer, Elise is the most consistent option because of Recover. She works better on highly offensive teams, as she can use Recover with her KFB to buff attack for those that she's healing 15 for.

Clarine thrives on healing after she's taken a beating, which is a risky thing to let your healer do, and is therefore not as good for highly offensive teams. For defensive teams, she's better than Elise depending on your playstyle and probably for the niche of a Horseteam as a whole because of being able to just top off your units' HP and boost their speed while she's at it, and being able to snag a hit here and there with her added bulk for which to set up safe counterattacks with.

For what I've seen, being on the opposite side of many Cains and Abels, I'd say that Cain >>>>>>>>> Abel, but they're both threatening because of Braves. Abel is much less threatening due to the meta loving green mages, which eat him and his terrible speed for dessert, but Cain has Wings of Mercy, which lets him basically fasttravel around the map and smack up with his Brave Sword and his double AoE AtkDebuff skills