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[BANRYU]

9 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Celica's max stats are 39/32/33/22/22, which isn't bad. If you give her Swift Sparrow 2, neutral Celica gets 94 wins with only 1 loss at full health with Ragnarok, which is pretty insane.

She one rounds Hector, M!Robin, and... a lot of common people. L&D3 gives 4 more wins, but at the cost of Enemy Phase (but does it matter). More importantly, L&D doesn't give that many more notable one-shots, so you just take more damage for no point if you're gonna run Renewal to go along with it.

Swift Sparrow is definitely the way to go on Celica if you want to make use of Ragnarok (and like... why wouldn't you, it's cool AF and otherwise she's just a slower Tharja, might as well make use of that niche right)... Fury gives her too much recoil with Ragnarok for Renewal to recover, and Life and Death means she takes counterattacks worse than Nino. NINO.

Swift Sparrow gives her -1 Atk/Spd VS life and death (which, reminding, is +9) and that's still pretty insane. I think Swift Sparrow + Renewal with Draw Back support is def gonna be the way to go with Celica.

Dammit... IS, you need to release someone else who has Swift Sparrow... Now it's not just my Merric hurting for it ;-;

and that's if I can even pull her ugh... I want

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

They fill different roles, but in my opinion, Mae is far better than Robin in the current meta. 

Robin's niche is that he's surprisingly tanky for a mage, allowing him to soak up more hits from ranged archers and such and hit back, but his offense is about average. 

Mae, on the other hand, is one of the strongest mages in the entire game, and has a higher base attack than any blue mage (more than Linde and waaaay more than Robin) with the caveat being that she's physically weaker. She functions as more of a glass cannon, which is arguably more valuable in the current meta which revolves around ORKOing enemies. 

So I would pick depending on what kind of unit you need, but in my personal opinion, Mae is a better overall blue mage.

Only 1 point of Atk more than Linde, but 5 points less of Spd means Linde is still offensively more powerful.

On the other hand, the fact that Mae has some of her Spd distributed to her other stats means she can make decent use of Blarowl's bonus Spd and defenses, as Blarowl with 2 stacks puts her at -1 Spd, but a respectable +6 Def and +7 Res over Linde.

I can see Mae running Blarowl with Fury, giving her respectable 35 / 23 / 37 bulk with 2 stacks on Blarowl while maintaining amazing 53 / 37 offenses.

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Dammit... IS, you need to release someone else who has Swift Sparrow... Now it's not just my Merric hurting for it ;-;

I think it's pretty likely that they will eventually. We've already gotten Spur Def/Res on Mist, Bow Exp on Faye, and B Tome Exp on Mae, so I think they'll keep filling out the "dual stat" and "weapon Exp" skills over time to include the others. Once they add enough of those, it'll seem strange for the ones on festival characters (currently Swift Sparrow, Atk/Def +2, and Axe Exp, but possibly more over time) to be left out of availability on characters in the regular summon lineup, so I'd expect them all to get added on regular characters at some point. But it could take a long time.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

10 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Swift Sparrow is definitely the way to go on Celica if you want to make use of Ragnarok (and like... why wouldn't you, it's cool AF and otherwise she's just a slower Tharja, might as well make use of that niche right)... Fury gives her too much recoil with Ragnarok for Renewal to recover, and Life and Death means she takes counterattacks worse than Nino. NINO.

Swift Sparrow gives her -1 Atk/Spd VS life and death (which, reminding, is +9) and that's still pretty insane. I think Swift Sparrow + Renewal with Draw Back support is def gonna be the way to go with Celica.

Dammit... IS, you need to release someone else who has Swift Sparrow... Now it's not just my Merric hurting for it ;-;

and that's if I can even pull her ugh... I want

Notably, +Spd -HP (or anything not Atk) Celica with Death Blow will get the same amount of kills as Swift Sparrow after Sacred Seal is factored.

I only have one Bunny Lucina...

Edited May 15, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[MaskedAmpharos]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Only 1 point of Atk more than Linde, but 5 points less of Spd means Linde is still offensively more powerful.

On the other hand, the fact that Mae has some of her Spd distributed to her other stats means she can make decent use of Blarowl's bonus Spd and defenses, as Blarowl with 2 stacks puts her at -1 Spd, but a respectable +6 Def and +7 Res over Linde.

I can see Mae running Blarowl with Fury, giving her respectable 35 / 23 / 37 bulk with 2 stacks on Blarowl while maintaining amazing 53 / 37 offenses.

Yeah, I should definitely have mentioned her speed in comparison with Linde's since that's arguably more important than just base attack. 

The original question was between Mae and Robin though, and she's unquestionably a better offensive unit than Robin is.

What do you think about Mae though? I admit I haven't thought too much about a bulky Owl set, but how do you think that compares to her running a standard Blade set? I'm still of the opinion that Blade is better for her overall, but I'm open to discussion since, as I said, I admittedly haven't given a bulkier Owl set much thought yet.

EDIT: @SatsumaFSoysoy What a coincidence; that's exactly my Celica's nature. Thanks for the tip :P

Edited May 15, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

4 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

EDIT: @SatsumaFSoysoy What a coincidence; that's exactly my Celica's nature. Thanks for the tip :P

I got hit by Rezzy. I might whale.

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I got hit by Rezzy. I might whale.

My condolences and best of luck, friend.

[BANRYU]

4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Notably, +Spd -HP (or anything not Atk) Celica with Death Blow will get the same amount of kills as Swift Sparrow after Sacred Seal is factored.

I only have one Bunny Lucina...

Oh izzat so? Good to know, hmm... (Yeah I guess a certain amount of speed is overkill after some point) Death Blow is a pretty highly-contested skill too, though. 

I'D BURN HER ON MY MERRIC IN A HEARTBEAT IF I COULD

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

I think it's pretty likely that they will eventually. We've already gotten Spur Def/Res on Mist, Bow Exp on Faye, and B Tome Exp on Mae, so I think they'll keep filling out the "dual stat" and "weapon Exp" skills over time to include the others. Once they add enough of those, it'll seem strange for the ones on festival characters (currently Swift Sparrow, Atk/Def +2, and Axe Exp, but possibly more over time) to be left out of availability on characters in the regular summon lineup, so I'd expect them all to get added on regular characters at some point. But it could take a long time.

One can only hope! x3x I'll certainly hold out for it though!

[Othin]

So I managed to mess up an attempt at the 11-1 quest by getting careless and letting Reinhardt get attacked and one-rounded by... Genny.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Oh izzat so? Good to know, hmm... (Yeah I guess a certain amount of speed is overkill after some point) Death Blow is a pretty highly-contested skill too, though. 

I'D BURN HER ON MY MERRIC IN A HEARTBEAT IF I COULD

I don't wanna burn my only Bunny...

Also, I have no DB fodder either lol.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Yeah, I should definitely have mentioned her speed in comparison with Linde's since that's arguably more important than just base attack. 

The original question was between Mae and Robin though, and she's unquestionably a better offensive unit than Robin is.

What do you think about Mae though? I admit I haven't thought too much about a bulky Owl set, but how do you think that compares to her running a standard Blade set? I'm still of the opinion that Blade is better for her overall, but I'm open to discussion since, as I said, I admittedly haven't given a bulkier Owl set much thought yet.

I think Blarblade is better overall for Mae, but it simply makes her a worse Linde. If you don't already have Linde and need someone to fill that role, Blarblade works. If you're looking for Mae to have a distinct role, a Blarowl Fury build sets her apart as a blue mage with both good offenses and passable defenses (and can also counter kill Reinhardt if you lack a green mage).

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I think Blarblade is better overall for Mae, but it simply makes her a worse Linde. If you don't already have Linde and need someone to fill that role, Blarblade works. If you're looking for Mae to have a distinct role, a Blarowl Fury build sets her apart as a blue mage with both good offenses and passable defenses (and can also counter kill Reinhardt if you lack a green mage).

In a game with this many characters, some characters will inevitably be overshadowed by others. Just look at Navarre, for example. What can he do that Lon'qu can't do better?

I'm perfectly happy with Mae being a "worse Linde" since Linde is such an amazing unit that a "worse Linde" is still one of the best mages in the game. For someone like you with the resources to acquire every unit with optimal natures and skills, I imagine optimization is a bit more important though.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I can't really decide between Moonbow vs Draconic Aura for Celica. Moonbow doesn't really increase her kills that much, but if you nuke a melee unit first turn, chances are Moonbow will be up to help pad your slightly weaker offense before Renewal kicks in. It doesn't help that much though.

On the other hand, if you use Celica to bait instead, or attack a unit that can fight back, Draconic Aura will get charged up. You actually gain kills despite losing Ragnarok's bonus while DA is up, so you have a free "delet this" even before Renewal kicks in.

Which one is more effective?

Also, my Bunny Lucina has a poor nature, so I'm tempted....

[Alternis]

Love using my Celica. She's -HP +Res but I could had gotten worse. 

Wish x2 SP was still around, but that won't stop me from refilling stamina to get the skills I want on her. * ^ *

Still wondering which A skill to give her though. DB3 or LaD3? > 3 <

Edited May 15, 2017 by Alternis

[BANRYU]

25 minutes ago, Alternis said:

Love using my Celica. She's -HP +Res but I could had gotten worse. 

Wish x2 SP was still around, but that won't stop me from refilling stamina to get the skills I want on her. * ^ *

Still wondering which A skill to give her though. DB3 or LaD3? > 3 <

Death Blow. Her defenses are too low to risk compromising them further and she'll probably be initiating most of the time anyway, I think.

[Exoplayer]

@AlternisA coincidence that i got a -HP +Res too, after i analysed her i come to the decision that Darting Blow or Death Blow would be the most suited A skill. The reason why, is that she is able to ORKO many units safe. If you want the safe ORKO then im sure Death Blow is the all the way. But then it's fact that she is inferior to Tharja, that's her problem. You have to play the rare Red Tome Breaker or playing Darting Blow + Spd Bonus from Hone/Spurs and that's the way im using her.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

8 minutes ago, Exoplayer said:

@AlternisA coincidence that i got a -HP +Res too, after i analysed her i come to the decision that Darting Blow or Death Blow would be the most suited A skill. The reason why, is that she is able to ORKO many units safe. If you want the safe ORKO then im sure Death Blow is the all the way. But then it's fact that she is inferior to Tharja, that's her problem. You have to play the rare Red Tome Breaker or playing Darting Blow + Spd Bonus from Hone/Spurs and that's the way im using her.

Celica is only worse than Tharja if Tharja has Eirika buffs. Swift Sparrow (or even just Death Blow) Celica does significantly better than both Darting Blow and L&D Tharja if she has no support, and even if Tharja gets a Rally/Hone Atk, both of her builds still do worse than Swift Sparrow Celica. If you have/can afford to run Eirika, then sure, Tharja is better especially with no recoil, but Celica is much much better as a standalone powerhouse, much like Reinhardt vs Olwen.

[Alternis]

41 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Death Blow. Her defenses are too low to risk compromising them further and she'll probably be initiating most of the time anyway, I think.

Hm I see. That's a shame because I wanted to try her out with LaD3 + Ragnarok for that +10 to ATK and SPD. XD

19 minutes ago, Exoplayer said:

@AlternisA coincidence that i got a -HP +Res too, after i analysed her i come to the decision that Darting Blow or Death Blow would be the most suited A skill. The reason why, is that she is able to ORKO many units safe. If you want the safe ORKO then im sure Death Blow is the all the way. But then it's fact that she is inferior to Tharja, that's her problem. You have to play the rare Red Tome Breaker or playing Darting Blow + Spd Bonus from Hone/Spurs and that's the way im using her.

I have a Tharja but I don't really care too much for her (even if she's better because broken blade tomes), so I'm trying to make the best of Celica. 

Probably going to do Death Blow but Darting Blow seems like a good idea too.

[Ice Dragon]

26 minutes ago, Exoplayer said:

You have to play the rare Red Tome Breaker

R Tomebreaker comes from Odin, who is hardly rare.

[Exoplayer]

@SatsumaFSoysoyDarting Blow Tharja is going to outspeed all variants of non-speed Celica like mine and Alternis. That's why i think it's important to defeat her first with your own Darting Blow, because just one merged Tharja can take a DB Celicia with 1 hp. L&D isn't really worth with that much recoil you are getting. About Swift Sparrow as i competitive oriented player, it has such a low sp cost, that you just got low points each match and isn't worth in my opinion. Furthermore im sure that people who are using Tharja got Buffers like Eirika or Ephraim (at least on high arena matches). 

@Ice DragonWell im not talking about the character, but the skill, which you are seeing very rare bruh.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

20 minutes ago, Alternis said:

Hm I see. That's a shame because I wanted to try her out with LaD3 + Ragnarok for that +10 to ATK and SPD. XD

I have a Tharja but I don't really care too much for her (even if she's better because broken blade tomes), so I'm trying to make the best of Celica. 

Probably going to do Death Blow but Darting Blow seems like a good idea too.

Darting Blow nets kills on the faster Sword lords like Lucina, but overall does worse. If you don't have a reliable counter to some of the Sword units, you could try out Darting.

2 minutes ago, Exoplayer said:

@SatsumaFSoysoyDarting Blow Tharja is going to outspeed all variants of non-speed Celica like mine and Alternis. That's why i think it's important to defeat her first with your own Darting Blow, because just one merged Tharja can take a DB Celicia with 1 hp. L&D isn't really worth with that much recoil you are getting. About Swift Sparrow as i competitive oriented player, it has such a low sp cost, that you just got low points each match and isn't worth in my opinion. Furthermore im sure that people who are using Tharja got Buffers like Eirika or Ephraim (at least on high arena matches). 

@Ice DragonWell im not talking about the character, but the skill, which you are seeing very rare bruh.

Neutral Darting Blow Tharja gets 40 effective Speed, while Life and Death gets 39. Ragnarok-boosted Celica gets 38. The difference isn't enough to double, so it doesn't matter. On the other hand, with Swift Sparrow, Ragnarok-boosted Celica hits 42 Spd to Tharja's 34, so Celica doubles and kills. I consider neutral natures, because unless you're a massive whale fighting in the 700 score tier, you're not going to see optimal natures all the time.

Swift Sparrow has a SP cost of 240, which is higher than average. Darting Blow and Death Blow are only 200.

But to begin with, we're not pitting Tharja directly against Celica in a fight; we're talking about their overall performance as a unit on your side. And Celica does better without any support, while Tharja does better only if she has Eirika (Ephraim alone still makes Tharja worse).

[Alternis]

9 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Darting Blow nets kills on the faster Sword lords like Lucina, but overall does worse. If you don't have a reliable counter to some of the Sword units, you could try out Darting.

I'm still thinking about it between that, Death Blow 3 and Life and Death 3. I'm really iffy about Death Blow 3 right now because i have to spend 20k feathers just for that skill. 

I would love to give Celica a Swift Sparrow 2 but unfortunately I can't get now. Have to wait for it to reappear if it ever does, or if we get an equivalent or better version of it. ; - ;

I wish my Celica was +ATK or +SPD 8^(

Edited May 15, 2017 by Alternis

[Exoplayer]

@SatsumaFSoysoyMaybe i should mention that im calculating Tharja with the most common build and thats + Spd - Def. If neutral IV, she isn't double Celica. 

With Swift Sparrow i admit it was my mistake, i just take a apparently false source. Nice to know it.

The last point i agree with you, Celica is more the standalone character than Tharja, who need buff in order to nuke enimies.

[Korath88]

6 minutes ago, Exoplayer said:

@SatsumaFSoysoyMaybe i should mention that im calculating Tharja with the most common build and thats + Spd - Def. If neutral IV, she isn't double Celica. 

With Swift Sparrow i admit it was my mistake, i just take a apparently false source. Nice to know it.

The last point i agree with you, Celica is more the standalone character than Tharja, who need buff in order to nuke enimies.

But you're missing the most important point: Celica isn't an ugly thot, unlike Tharja

[Exoplayer]

5 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

But you're missing the most important point: Celica isn't an ugly thot, unlike Tharja

Ohh why did i miss such a important point!? Of course now Celica is definitely better!