Your stats are terrible! But I love you anyway.

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Trainee units (Amelia, Ewan, Marisa)

FE10!Sothe. I know he isn't bad for like 2/4 of the game, but he starts dragging around part 4. I still use him until the endgame.

FE10!Kurthnaga. He isn't exactly bad, but it takes a lot of babying to get him anywhere, and you only have 5 chapters for this feat.

FE7!Rebecca. I don't know why she was said to be a bad unit.

FE14!Mozu.

FE14!Hana. She'd be a good unit if she wasn't surpassed by Hinata (and then Ryoma) and if she didn't have such an abysmal def and HP, but I still prefer her (not over Ryoma, of course).

FE4!Tiltyu. Not a bad unit, but her join time is horrible and making her good is often redundant (because you already have a team of demi-gods doing her job but better) and hard.

Um, why is Marisa mentioned among the trainees??

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I find them to be less irritating in Ch.14x instead of Ch.26x.

So can Sophia, once you give her some Skill Books. Because i honestly can't find someone else who needs a Skill Book more than Sophia.

It might not be as bad in 14x, but I still find it irritating.

I suppose. Though Sophia's in a game where enemies actually have stats, so...

[Rapier]

I... forgot she wasn't a trainee due to her awfully low level and me not playing FE8 in 6 years. Anyway, she still counts.

[saisymbolic]

4 hours ago, Rezzy said:

You don't always need a reason to be an alcoholic gambling addict.  My mother certainly doesn't. 

Perhaps not. But I'm of the belief that, even if we don't know it or understand the logic of it, there is a reason behind every action a person does.

That's just me, though.

So, more terrible units that I love:

Rolf, why did you think it was a good idea to join my party at lvl. 1 when everyone else is probably around lvl. 13 - 15? It's not okay, Rolf. IT'S NOT OKAY! I sit on that map for 100+ turns to get you, Mist, Marcia and probably everyone else on the same level. I shouldn't have to do that! You aren't even an outstanding archer! You aren't even good! Even Shinon isn't that great! But you know the difference between the two of you? You're an adorable green-haired child that wants to fight for his friends. And I respect that. The feeling of raising you from a worthless lvl.1 Archer to a Sniper that can overcome his master makes my heart swell with pride. I will always waste an hour+ of my time raising you, Rolf. Because I love you.

Now, you and Rolf come at the same time, bringing nothing to the table, Mist. Why would I choose you over Rhys? He can heal full health with a Heal stave, while you barely heal half with a Mend staff. Worthless. But you know your strengths, don't you? You know about that horse you get to ride once you become a Valkyrie. You know about how I need you for Ike to survive Black Knight so that I maybe get Nasir. You're important, Mist. You may be overshadowed by every character able to wield a stave, but when I get to play as Nasir (after numerous restarts), I know putting effort into you was worth it.

Edited September 10, 2017 by saisymbolic

[Rezzy]

For my answer, it's likely FE7 Bartre.  I have to level you to get Karla, so darn it, I'm going to put an effort into making you good.

 

In general, I like using Ests, but they aren't really bad, they just need an investment.

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Midori can get Profiteer as well. But frankly, I'm convinced Profiteer is a wasted skill slot - it just ain't reliable enough (at most your chances of having it work are marginally better than 1-in-3), and 300 gold is pretty paltry, to say nothing of it being useless after 7 turns. If I needed gold in Conquest, I'd just use Ghostly Gold instead.

I do get the idea. But if you're trying to avoid/not using DLC at all, it's the only way to do so. Also, I did forget Midori. As someone who didn't bother with the kids ever, that's not surprising. 

You are right in the sense of it being a bit unnecessary. Still, Mozu has never been bad for me. Then again, most of the units in Fates can work.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Rezzy said:

For my answer, it's likely FE7 Bartre.  I have to level you to get Karla, so darn it, I'm going to put an effort into making you good.

 

Fun fact, a base level + promotion bonuses Bartre with a Swordreaver (and the Iron Rune to mitigate the high chance of being critted) can survive Karla. This reflects on just how bad she is.

 

19 hours ago, saisymbolic said:

Hinata. Lord, Hinata. Why are you so adorable but your stats are absolute ass?! How are you a Samurai but have the growths of a Oni Savage, dude? And, not even in a good way. Are you and Rinkah related? Like, sometimes RNGoddess blesses you to have decent speed and strength during playthroughs, but I don't blame people that choose Hana and Ryoma over you. It's okay, though. I still love you and will restart any chapter for you if you fail me, and I'll pair you with a nice lady that will give you and your child the right treatment (and stat boosts) that you deserve. Hell, I plan on marrying you to my summoner and probably Ephraim in Heroes, so you know you'll be awesome with us behind you.

Agreed Hinata looks good. I also like how they tried to differentiate him and Hana- the two have stat and growth differences bigger than any two rival myrmidons have had in the past. Hinata, being male, you'd expect would have a Str lead, but Hana for a change of pace gets that (and its big). Unfortunately for Hinata, I don't think they gave him enough of a durability lead over Hana (its worth noting that Hana owns him in Str, Skl, Spd, Lck and Res- perhaps they should've given him a lead in Res or something), and then there is Ryoma- who Hinata is just plain inferior to with no advantages on average.

I liked how Fates differentiated the characters in a given class overall, despite a few clear flaws (such as Beruka, Hinata and Subaki).

8 hours ago, Armagon said:

So can Sophia, once you give her some Skill Books. Because i honestly can't find someone else who needs a Skill Book more than Sophia.

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Fair enough but i never use Gonzales.

[Rezzy]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Fun fact, a base level + promotion bonuses Bartre with a Swordreaver (and the Iron Rune to mitigate the high chance of being critted) can survive Karla. This reflects on just how bad she is.

Yeah, but if I have to level him to 10 and use a promotion item on him, I figure I might as well try to make him good.

[Tenzen12]

This happens to me pretty only in fe6

Cecilia: No matter how you look at it she is nowhwre close to Pent... Or even Clarine, I usually dump all items to her to make her half decent. Well all items except skill books which goes to:

Gonzales: His stats are quite good actually, but yeah axe user...

[Florina's #1 Fan]

This... is my thread. This is my dream thread. Here I go, units that I use that either start terrible or are terrible:

Every recruit, Est archetype, and villager: I don't freaking care about efficiency, every unit with high growth rates, I'm using them! Donnel, Mozu, Ross, Amelia, Ewan, Nino, Sophia, Fiona, all of them 0_0 They are gods on earth if you raise them up, so why not? Especially in SS, where everything is already really easy, it makes the game almost funny how broken some of their units can be.

Meg: She's just so cute. I can't not use her. I can't do it. I have sworn to myself that once I play Radiant Dawn, I will use Meg. It's going to happen.

Dorothy: There's something endearing about her being so plain when everyone else is so "anime protagonist." Dorothy is better than Wolt, but that isn't saying much, and you get Wolt first, so there isn't much justification for using her instead, except that she's got such a homely and fairly cute design.

Wolt (attempted): I tried. I really did. When I realized he was related to Rebecca, I was determined to use him... but he was just so awful. Just terrible, every time he leveled up, it's like the RNG devil was laughing at me. But I really liked him for some reason, even though if it wasn't for this odd interest, I wouldn't like him at all?

Charlotte: Charlotte is insanely good once you train her, but her bases are so frustrating, she misses constantly and she doesn't double nearly as often, her base stats make it look like Arthur is better than her when he is entirely inferior. But I didn't know anything about her except I liked her design when I saw her in Conquest, and then her dialogue with Benny made me go, "must use Charlotte."

Benny: In Conquest, Effie is similar to Ike in that you could probably win that whole game with her and some minimal support. So there isn't a reason to use Benny instead. Except he's so sweet, and I could never abandon my cinnamon roll titan. He's just too nice to be thrown away.

Thany: I love pegasus knights, and in Binding Blade, my options are hot trash, hot trash, and hot trash -_- So I always put work into my first pegasus knight, because I will not have a game where I can't use a pegasus, even if she uses up tons of steroids. War in FE never lacks a pegasus. Blasphemy.

Niles: GOOD LORD. This was the most challenging thing. I thought there was no way to redeem him. It's like IS tried to deliberately create an amazing character and make them totally useless. His strength, his magic, they're horrible, his skill is mediocre, his defense and HP are horrendous, he may be one of the most awful non-Jagens ever to exist, and yet... I did it. I found out he could support with Arthur, and then the choir of angels sounded above me. As a Berserker, Niles was able to grow in strength, HP, and skill, and when I dropped him in Hero, he could actually survive. And perform... well

The "inferior girls": Just in general, when there's a male character and then a female in the same class that is considered their counterpart, I use the female. Wendy over Bors, Sophia over Raigh, Ilyana over Soren, Marisa over Joshua, Setsuna over Takumi, even Fir over Rutger. It's not like I'm picking them basing off of gender, it's just for some reason, IS picks the girls to have the lower strength or magic/HP and more resistance/luck (woah, resistance and luck), and I like using weak units, so yeah :\ There are some exceptions, like I use Lugh over Lilina, but mostly, I keep the girls.

Other honorable mentions: Setsuna, Hayato, Subaki, Neimi

Edited September 11, 2017 by Florina's #1 Fan

[Florina's #1 Fan]

18 hours ago, Rapier said:

FE7!Rebecca. I don't know why she was said to be a bad unit.

Wait... Rebecca is bad? Oh, I thought obliterating everything in sight before endgame with a killer bow including the FE7 endgame Nomad Trooper at Nergal's battle was good... my bad.

[Magical Glace]

16 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Wolt (attempted): I tried. I really did. When I realized he was related to Rebecca, I was determined to use him... but he was just so awful. Just terrible, every time he leveled up, it's like the RNG devil was laughing at me. But I really liked him for some reason, even though if it wasn't for this odd interest, I wouldn't like him at all?

Someone else likes Wolt?

I approve of this.  I always use him, and I actually have made him work, so it's not like it's impossible or anything.

[X-Naut]

Seconding Gonzales as a great "for fun" character in more casual FE6 playthroughs.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

9 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Someone else likes Wolt?

I approve of this.  I always use him, and I actually have made him work, so it's not like it's impossible or anything.

Yeah, but when I got to the point where I had to make room for newer units, and I had two archers, I had to pick one, and Dorothy was just better by that point. But he holds a special place in my heart. For being one of the few Binding characters I really like.

[Rezzy]

49 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Wait... Rebecca is bad? Oh, I thought obliterating everything in sight before endgame with a killer bow including the FE7 endgame Nomad Trooper at Nergal's battle was good... my bad.

Archers in general aren't that great.  Being locked to ranged on enemy phase hurts.

[Koumal8]

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Wait... Rebecca is bad? Oh, I thought obliterating everything in sight before endgame with a killer bow including the FE7 endgame Nomad Trooper at Nergal's battle was good... my bad.

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Archers in general aren't that great.  Being locked to ranged on enemy phase hurts.

It's not only that, mainly all early-game Archers in the GBA games have bad bases which means that they can't accomplish much on PP on the harder modes and they find it difficult to keep up with the rest of the army. This is especially bad for Wolt and Dorothy due FE6 having a really hard early-game (Ch.4 still gives me PTSD), but Shin for example is a really nice unit, and not only because he has a horse, his base stats are on steroids. In FE8 it's the same thing with Neimi (though it's less bad for her because FE8 is overall an easier game) while Innes is a perfectly serviceable unit. Then comes FE7 where Rebecca has friggin 4/6 base Str/Spd (assuming no Lyn mode): she's not doubling anything in her join chapter and even though she starts doubling pretty soon that pitiful Strength of hers will prevent her from ORKOing for a loooong time.

I'd say Archers and Fighters are in the same boat in the GBA games: decent classes with no glaring flaw sporting very bad representatives, while it's the opposite for Knights which are flawed as a class altogether.

As for my units:

Tiltyu: I sometimes find a way to promote her in her join chapter (or after Ch.4 arena) because in my headcanon she's a really interested and conflicted character (something that FE4 amazing support system doesn't convey properly, unfortunately)

Alec: Str Ring + Def Sword + Brave Sword + (only once) Paragon = I'll have my turban curbstomp the world woohoooooo!!!

Wendy+Sophia+Oujay+Fir+Noah: many of the FE6 underdogs, I used them all at least once on Normal beacuse I find them more interesting than their counterparts either personality-wise or design-wise

Muarim: I can't stand no-royal Laguzes in RD but I SWEAR I'LL USE YOU ONE DAY OK?! eventually... his design is too good to pass up (and Vika's too)

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Gordin is my main answer, but I really came here to say:

Lifis, Lifis, Lifis

[Limstella]

Ryan and Gordin definitely, but especially Rickard chief's been outshining you since nes days

[Shadow Mir]

15 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Charlotte: Charlotte is insanely good once you train her, but her bases are so frustrating, she misses constantly and she doesn't double nearly as often, her base stats make it look like Arthur is better than her when he is entirely inferior. But I didn't know anything about her except I liked her design when I saw her in Conquest, and then her dialogue with Benny made me go, "must use Charlotte."

Speaking of, Charlotte's one of those units that everyone likes to hype as being good, but I just flat-out fail to see it. First off, she comes in underleveled (level 10 in chapter 13, and Conquest drops unpromoted units entirely after chapter 17). Second, she's a glass cannon in a game where defense is more important than ever. Third, she can't hit the broad side of a barn if her life depended on it, which it does because she has garbage defenses. And it DOES NOT HELP that Berserkers have a crit evade penalty in Fates. . . Could you really handle getting close to finishing an annoying chapter only to have to start over from scratch because your Berserker got killed by a critical hit from a random grunt?? Because I'd probably lose my sanity if that happened to me.

Anyways, so this post isn't entirely an off-topic tangent, another unit that I like to use despite being hard to use is Fiona.

[Tryhard]

On 9/10/2017 at 2:00 PM, Dayni said:

  Hide contents

Gonzales: Terrible Skill and low axe accuracy making you a crapshoot? Don't care, favourite axe user in BB.

Kliff as a mage: WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY HE'S AWFUL? I mean, I get wanting to use his high base res elsewhere. I get he has to get Excalibur later. I get Tobin gained Physic. But to say he's an awful mage and never should be one has always seemed like a bad argument to me. He can actually use his stats very well for it, he has a good deal of options for offence (though if they'd replaced Aura with Seraphim or a white magic spell it probably would have been fine) and has the stats to use them better in the long run. If you're on about grinding forever for Thabes, sure you'll want him as a merc. If you want him to be a cav or an archer, I can see why. But saying his ability as a mage is bad has always seemed off to me.

 

I don't really know anyone saying Kliff is terrible as a mage? He's good as any class, it's just in Echoes people say that he's better as a Cavalier or Archer and for Tobin to take that mage "role". The main problem is his low AS as soon as he becomes a Mage if you promote him immediately, but that doesn't make him bad.

As for Gonzales, I would have said him as well except for the fact that I think it's generally accepted that he's the strongest infantry axe user in FE6, even with the skills and accuracy issues.

 

As for some others:

Marty, because I do like brigands.

Oujay, even if he's more mediocre compared to bad. He's basically Dieck, but comes later and with 5 less con. Poor Oujay.

Matthis. Since Cavaliers are so dominating it's nice to use one of the ones that struggles, like Matthis, Roshea, Vyland, etc.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Tryhard

[Punished Dayni]

2 hours ago, Tryhard said:

I don't really know anyone saying Kliff is terrible as a mage? He's good as any class, it's just in Echoes people say that he's better as a Cavalier or Archer and for Tobin to take that mage "role". The main problem is his low AS as soon as he becomes a Mage if you promote him immediately, but that doesn't make him bad.

As for Gonzales, I would have said him as well except for the fact that I think it's generally accepted that he's the strongest infantry axe user in FE6, even with the skills and accuracy issues.

Well, the main reason is that I brought them up is that I've not seen anyone arguing for Kliff as a mage, and I haven't see much in favour of Gonzales in a while either. Yeah, I'm probably not as much of a minority as I thought, but still.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Speaking of, Charlotte's one of those units that everyone likes to hype as being good, but I just flat-out fail to see it. First off, she comes in underleveled (level 10 in chapter 13, and Conquest drops unpromoted units entirely after chapter 17). Second, she's a glass cannon in a game where defense is more important than ever. Third, she can't hit the broad side of a barn if her life depended on it, which it does because she has garbage defenses. And it DOES NOT HELP that Berserkers have a crit evade penalty in Fates. . . Could you really handle getting close to finishing an annoying chapter only to have to start over from scratch because your Berserker got killed by a critical hit from a random grunt?? Because I'd probably lose my sanity if that happened to me.

Charlotte's skill growth is actually pretty good at 50%. Her stats that aren't defense, resistance, and magic, are all at least 50%. Her luck backs her up so she doesn't get critted often, if you forge a bronze axe, she can work with that for a little bit and it gives her some dodge, and once she has gotten enough experience, she can transfer to stronger, less accurate weapons without a problem. I've actually never had my Charlotte get critted, she has a massive HP cushion, and after about one or two EXPonential Growth visits (honestly, that isn't even necessary, just pair her with someone who gives a big strength boost like Keaton), she becomes one of your best units, or at least pair-up fodder because of the huge strength boost she gives out. Charlotte's crit ratio capability and damage output are unparalleled in Fates, doing more damage than Beruka and Arthur, who have an edge over her in skill, and the only unit in the game that hits as hard as she does is Effie, who is an unfair comparison because Effie could arguably solo the game with very little support because her growths are insane.

[Moblin Major General]

Ross. He's level 1 in a Tier 0 class and comes before free grinding is available. However, I always grind him in Chapter 3 because he's the only other Berserker you get in this game, and ends up almost always being better than Dozla (and he's a better Garm wielder anyhow). However, if you choose to go Fighter, his dad is a better Warrior, and Gerik has the con to wield axes is by far a better Hero.

Edit: I forgot to mention that even though I shell out for the only other Ocean Seal for Colm, Rennac can steal just as well as promoted Colm, so I use the Chapter 9 Ocean Seal for Ross always.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Hylian Air Force

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 hour ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Charlotte's skill growth is actually pretty good at 50%. Her stats that aren't defense, resistance, and magic, are all at least 50%. Her luck backs her up so she doesn't get critted often, if you forge a bronze axe, she can work with that for a little bit and it gives her some dodge, and once she has gotten enough experience, she can transfer to stronger, less accurate weapons without a problem. I've actually never had my Charlotte get critted, she has a massive HP cushion, and after about one or two EXPonential Growth visits (honestly, that isn't even necessary, just pair her with someone who gives a big strength boost like Keaton), she becomes one of your best units, or at least pair-up fodder because of the huge strength boost she gives out. Charlotte's crit ratio capability and damage output are unparalleled in Fates, doing more damage than Beruka and Arthur, who have an edge over her in skill, and the only unit in the game that hits as hard as she does is Effie, who is an unfair comparison because Effie could arguably solo the game with very little support because her growths are insane.

For some reason I've never been a huge fan of Effie.  I've always preferred Benny as my main General for being virtually unkillable without anti-armor weapons.

Maybe if I replay Fates I can make her a Great Knight since she can bring her massive Strength to bear a little more easily and Benny does the General class's primary job of soaking damage a lot better.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

16 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

For some reason I've never been a huge fan of Effie.  I've always preferred Benny as my main General for being virtually unkillable without anti-armor weapons.

Maybe if I replay Fates I can make her a Great Knight since she can bring her massive Strength to bear a little more easily and Benny does the General class's primary job of soaking damage a lot better.

I think both of them prefer General, although you might want Benny to get Luna from GK because he will never, ever double anything, so all of his damage is focused on the first and only hit. Not to mention his starting strength isn't exactly outstanding (Benny also enjoys Quixotic from Basara, which he can reclass into because of Hayato, if you're playing Revelations, Quixotic lets Benny activate Pavise and Luna all the time), although Benny should always end in General, no doubt. Also, Effie is fun to reclass (I made mine a swordmaster) because she's just good at everything, although her defense is actually not that great because she has a defense modifier of -1, even though her growth is good, meaning General is the only class where her defense is as good as it can be.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Florina's #1 Fan