Antihero Anonydraft Mafia (Game Over)

[Kamina]

Also Mello's vote on me is terrible and I wasn't currently just voting Titania I would 100% be voting for Mello. I am perfectly fine with either of these people being lynched.

[Olivier]

I'm also bothered by Omar but I can't reason out why.  Someone like me isn't smart enough to have detective's intuition, so it must be something else...

My Faye read is out of date but it can't be helped until she makes another post.  Even the most talented person wouldn't be able to get something out of nothing!

Beast is similar to Dr. Crowler in that they're acting in a way that could benefit scum, but considering who they are, I don't view that as alignment indicative in this specific case.  It's a bad vote from both a "most likely to flip scum" perspective and an "flip will provide telling interactions" perspective.

I'm not lynching Mercenary Kratos.  I read through all of the cases on him, and I still don't get the votes on him.  Toshio's case annoys me because it doesn't seem like he's bothering to reconsider his viewpoints based on Kratos' replies, but tunnel vision isn't indicative of scumminess.  Rick's case is good because I can see how his Kratos read is progressing, even if I don't agree with it; you'll forgive me for that this once, won't you, ultimate scientist?  I've already criticized Mello's vote for nitpicking without taking the slot's overall actions into account (for example, why couldn't he have just had a stronger scumread on Endeavor?  This is such a weak point to vote someone this late on, even for a sham L).  Beast's vote is impossible for someone such as myself to adequately get a read off of.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Does no one in this school know how a pressure vote works? Maybe I should teach you!

Rick's content is passable, but don't think they're off the hook yet. We have time to apply pressure with our votes, and so I deigned it necessary to do so. And lo, Beast started talking a bit, so let's look at that now, shall we class?

6 hours ago, Beast said:

While I have opinions on almost everybody at this point, I don't really see the point in posting them because I haven't observed anything multiple others have not already pointed out. 

Not everyone is going to be around to make the first observation, and that's okay. But why do you seem so self-conscious about how you look in thread? I'm not convinced.

 

6 hours ago, Beast said:

I can find scum later in the game, but without flips, there's nothing I'm very sure of, and I don't like stating absolutes when there are no absolutes to be found. 

Mafia is never a game of absolutes. You can't contribute if you think you need a perfect case to indict someone, you're just going to take too long otherwise. Contribute in imperfect amounts, it's just how this works.

6 hours ago, Beast said:

I'm keeping my vote on Kratos, but I'm not completely sold on the Toshio logic.

Since you're not actually telling us what you opinion is, I don't know if this is just a holdover from when you voted Kratos due to his "attitude" or whether you actually have more opinions on his play. The fact that you're very non-committal to any sort of justification does not sit well with me.

The vote stays until you pull your socks up.

RE my Nagito point, it was something that seemed kind of odd at the time, and we were mostly out of RVS at the time. Willing to concede a timing point. 

I'll be back later with more comments on the rest of the game. 

[Violet Evergarden]

I've returned. Prepare to meet your maker, corrupt souls.

@Kokichi Ouma. It's not a strong read. However, this sort of conviction early on seems more likely to come from a player with dedication to their cause. I can respect that.

@Beast. I don't suspect Titania now. I thought she lacked conviction in scumhunting because she left down a weak vote while ignoring posts her target made at a time they were both active. Seemed like she didn't care. Now she's more in gear.

Beast himself is at least trying to come up with something in spite of his views on game state. I'll give him a day.

@Lapis Lazuli. My Ouma vote wasn't to keep up appearances. It was RVS. When there were non-RVS reasons to vote somebody, I unvoted him.
I wonder if you're reading an alternate version of the thread. The sentence Faye posted that you say has nothing to do with her vote is actually directly related - Endeavor said that Rick and Titania at least game some explanation for their votes on Kokichi. Ergo, Endeavor suspected me more because I lacked an apparent reason for voting.
Both of Lapis' cases are built on false pretenses. Mildly suspicious, but it could be the result of a rushed catch-up. That said, taking both sides of a Day 1 slapfight and giving no conclusion is a classic scumtell. It's plausible these are weak contributions made to blend in. I'll keep my eye on this slot.

Kratos is obviously the defensive type. If he defends himself to the exclusion of scumhunting then it becomes a problem. As is, he could be either alignment but I have higher priorities. My vote on him was early pressure and once he cleared up my issues with him I dropped it. If you made me commit to a read this early I'd say flustered town.

If Crowler has more to say about the first 3 pages of the game than he has to say about post-RVS then I have nothing to learn from him. He made the easiest vote possible, too. Underwhelming. Comment on Mello in his second post is filler, too, since there's no read, just a call for more posts from him. Mello had already engaged with the game for Crowler to have content to analyze. Titania and Kokichi's reasons for voting here are strong too. I don't oppose this wagon.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dr. Crowler

You don't seem adamant about the Beast scumread. You've even called it a pressure vote. But I can't tell who you'd be voting if Beast did pull his socks up. Maybe you should share your secondary reads with the class.

Mello's misunderstanding of my Kratos case is noted. But it doesn't change that one of his two reasons for voting me was based on a pretense that had already been addressed in-thread. That this mistake even happened to begin with bugs me. Let's talk voting times again, though. Explain why you didn't suspect Kratos earlier on if you're so willing to sheep the case on him over everything else now, Mello. Surely Faye would be a case worth voting. Can't shake the feeling you just make up cases to keep up appearances and don't care about them much. This borders into gut territory at this point, so I'll prioritize Crowler over you for now.

@Rick. You criticize Mello here. Explain why he's not worth voting to you.

@Nagito Komaeda. I don't know who Beast is and I doubt you do well enough to read him on meta either. Titania's post seemed more like a joke than a serious or accurate guess. (Crowler is pretty obvious, but even if I'm right I don't think he's playing specifically to town meta or scum meta.)

My targets go Crowler > Mello > Lapis. My flat affect is due to character. I'm not here to ask questions. I'm here to purify this unclean world.

[Violet Evergarden]

3 minutes ago, The Batter said:

 

@Nagito Komaeda. I don't know who Beast is and I doubt you do well enough to read him on meta either. Titania's post seemed more like a joke than a serious or accurate guess. (Crowler is pretty obvious, but even if I'm right I don't think he's playing specifically to town meta or scum meta.)

To clarify, I'm not saying Komaeda has to be wrong on Beast because I don't have a strong idea of who it is. I just think "considering who they are" is a weird argument when there's at least three to four players who would do this.

[Sham]

@Mercenary Kratos I don't really know what to tell you, my reads look waffle-y because I'm always second guessing them, and that's just how I am. It's not something I'm going to change because it helps me get a more holistic and open-minded view of the game and I think I've done well enough at keeping the paranoia under control when it really matters. You say that town should be giving their thoughts in case they die to give people something to work with, yet I give my full thoughts, including doubts, on my ED1 scumreads and I'm scummy for doing so? Part of being an effective townie is being able to reevaluate reads and not tunnel, so I would be doing the town a disservice to feign more confidence in my reads than what truly exists.

Me being pissed was more that I felt like both your and Batter's cases on me are kind of bad and mostly come down to playstyle differences/misreading things, and I felt really indignant about a couple of Batter's comments, but I was holding it in since there's nothing to gain by shitting up the game thread with that crap when it probably wasn't meant as a personal attack. Because of that you're right that the Batter case is very on the fence, because I was struggling to reign in the feelings of "his case is shit fuck that guy" vs. a more levelheaded look at his posts, and both seeped through. Having calmed down a bit I have a decent townread on Batter and wouldn't lynch them today so far.

Crowler is scummy because he is going after an easy target. Beast is a low content poster, but he is the only one who made clear his low content is because he dislikes ED1 rather than giving no reason (compare to Endeavor or Faye). Crowler's case reads to me like he's creating a pretext (Beast is a low content poster) when there are other, worse cases of it, because he really just wants to go after someone who is going to be bad at defending themselves and won't contribute more. Lynchbait, low hanging fruit. It's lazy and isn't likely to produce anything of value from Beast.

Look at his latest post, it doesn't read at all like someone talking to a scumread, it's like someone trying to teach someone how to play. It feels like an extreme case of "This person is playing poorly so I'm going to vote them" but the way that he fudges the reason for his vote is incredibly shady.

@Mello, Nagito is mostly village on Kokichi interactions. I don't think a scum would come into the thread with only one real scumread (Kokichi) and then drop it so easily. Their whole interaction reads town/town to me, and this is mostly a "Would scum do this? No, I don't think so" reasoning

The Ken comment to Beast was a joke because of Persona 5 mafia. I do have serious guesses as to their identity but I don't care enough to think about that too much

[Sham]

er, to expand on the response to Mello, I differentiate that line of thought from something overtly townie that Nagito did and more that they did something I don't think mafia would do

[Sham]

Also, Endeavor's post sucked and it's been nearly 10 hours since he made it, claiming he would be analyzing the thread. Where are you? Would lynch this slot

[Cú Chulainn]

3 hours ago, Omar Little said:

Actually Don't really get the crawler votes in general. Yes his vote can be construed as "easy" I suppose but he is commenting on other slots. What do you think of crawlers defense @Kokichi Ouma? 

You want to know? What they do is place a pressure vote on Beast that they themselves acknowledge is unlikely to accomplish anything. Is this the act of a truth seeking townie, or a mean scum-faced jerk who hides behind lies? Rather than trying to do something, they're doing their best to LOOK useful. Am I wrong, Doctor?

Not really! I think the Bad Doctor (he probably even can't help me with my cough!) is mostly hinging his Beast read on what an *optimal* townie should look like, but Beast is an animal! I think we can tell that he's nothing close to that, so I don't see why he's Bad Doctor's only real pressure point here. I'd understand more if there was a reason to pressure the slot specifically, but I really don't see it. And I bet my eyesight is better than yours!

@The Batter, why does Lapis not edge out as scummier than Lapis? I'd honestly handwaved Lapis at first but your post on them made we want to reexamine them and poke them like a frog in a lab! I don't think they'd be as squishy though... But uh, regardless, your priorities confuse me. Can you clarify?

[All Might]

Agree with Mello about Crowler's beast vote. @Dr. Crowler do you have opinions on people that aren't beast or people who have more content?

1 hour ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

What exactly about Mello's content is good?  Why is my case on him weak?  Maybe I am biased here, because it bothers me when people take issue with my slot but don't actively try to pursue a read on me.  Even someone as useless as me has a lot of content, which is prime material for any cases.

Mello is actively stating opinions without being prodded and his thought process feels very similar to my own. Lots of his points seem to resonate with me originally (e.g. thinking you swapped off of Kokichi because of their role, not liking Crowler's vote initially etc) too.

Going off of your summary of your case a few pages back, you didn't like him because he misunderstood your vote switch (this is not scummy), because he is dissuading people from changing their opinion of Kokichi (was never true) and because he dismissed Endeavor for a reason you didn't like. The latter point is the only thing of any value and it is just that I disagree with you on that. I don't have to think you're scum just because I disagree with you otherwise I would have to think over half the game was mafia.

@Mercenary Kratos  I think you misunderstood Mello's post he said that you didn't take action until AFTER people pressured you to. He is referring to when you were assessing the situation rather than blindly voting. That being said your case on Titania is good. I was interested to see how you would back it up as ou could have made the initial one out of a desire to appease me but your followup and determination is good.

##Unvote

##Vote: Endeavor

^^^More interested in defending themselves than scumhunting I think. It's really a stretch to say that The Batter was calling for a legitimite turbo at the start of D1.

Dr. Crawler and Faye are good lynch targets too. I have a feeling I know who Dr. Crawler is though so less happy with lynching him.

This is all I can manage until about 12-13 hours from now. My apologies, but your village doctor has an emergency that he must deal with.

[All Might]

@Kokichi I'll send a nurse over for that cough of yours right away! 

[Violet Evergarden]

Lapis doesn't edge out as scummier than Lapis because they're the same person.

Lapis doesn't edge out as scummier than my other unholy targets because it's plausible the problems with their content are just the result of them rushing some posts out there while trying to catch up on a 7 page Day 1. They're moreso a "I'm waiting to see where this goes" type suspicion.

[All Might]

Oh btw while I think Kratos' case on Titania is good I liked Titania's recent posts so I think Titania is town. Forgot to mention that in my hurry. Specifically I liked their Crowler point and their defence tonally and the defence was solid regardless.

[Cú Chulainn]

...Huh?

 

O-oh. I meant Lapis compared to Mello. I understood why you were voting for the Bad Doc perfectly.

I totes understand better now though, thanks!

[Cú Chulainn]

@Lapis Lazuli, if you had to choose one of Kratos and Ozaki as mafia, right now, who would it be? Their lives are in your hands... except for the part that they aren't, but imagine if they were!

[Marisa Kirisame]

Ricky, tikki, tavi, MOFOS! Sad to see the party's died down over night without RICKY RICK! (No, seriously, I was expecting at least 3 pages.) 

Honestly, Beast has been the 2nd biggest nonentity (1st goes to darling Faye) in the game (I kind of can't remember what stuff he's posted, I think he just said he was busy). I'm kind of with Batter in that I'm willing to wait until the end of the day (this day, not the phase), but he knows that we have our eyes on him.

WRT Crowler, I don't think his Beast vote is terrible but honestly I'm a bit biased since I probably would have forgotten Beast was in the game if someone didn't make a big deal about him.

@Beast That being said, c'mon dude, if you read the post where I voted Kratos you'd understand why I found him scummy. I can't really tell what your case is / why you're voting him since you say you're not convinced on Toshio's logic but your votes come off as a sheep to me. Why are you voting him if you're not so "convinced"?

@The Batter FSR, I thought you linked a later post. Anyways, at that point in time, I didn't like the momentum of the Mello wagon (3 quick consecutive votes); that's why I said I can see how people (such as you) were pushing on him. At that time, he had enough pressure (his 3 votes) to address it himself which he sort of did.  More recently, I've been underwhelmed by Mello content (esp. re: his fos on Kratos).

I don't think my Kratos opinion has improved much, but Kratos, you are ab-so-lute-ly beeping right that Mello's vote on you is egregious (in the scum sense!) and he should feel bad. I voted you for almost doing what he has just did, and his vote feels like he's just trying to build momentum onto your wagon in order to protect himself.

I'll say now that I think Mello's made himself look worse than Kratos wrt to if I had to lock in a wagon, but the day is still young so I actually think my vote is best on another person:

##Unvote
##Vote: Endeavor

Honestly all the Beast criticism could easily be direct towards Endeavor as well. I actually think Endeavor is worst of all nonentities because from what I remember, he keeps promising more content/reads/actual scumhunting in the past 2 days but we have yet to see anything.

[Marisa Kirisame]

24 minutes ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

@Lapis Lazuli, if you had to choose one of Kratos and Ozaki as mafia, right now, who would it be? Their lives are in your hands... except for the part that they aren't, but imagine if they were!

Why does he have to choose one of them as mafia? Why can't they both be town? Or both mafia? I don't see the point of speculating wrt association at this point in time.

[Refakitty³]

I feel like if Faye isn't posting a lot this phase wen lynch her anyway just because having inactives with bad posts in the game isn't good anyway. Even if it is just that one posts it doesn't make her town.

[Rain Nijika]

1 hour ago, The Batter said:

That said, taking both sides of a Day 1 slapfight and giving no conclusion is a classic scumtell. It's plausible these are weak contributions made to blend in. I'll keep my eye on this slot.

I never took either side of theirs. My conclusion was that I don't think it's town infighting, but I don't know in that case which one is scum because both of them do things that I would consider scummy.

I know ITP hunting is scummy but I thought about it and if Kratos isn't town I think they have more chance of being ITP than mafia because their over-defensiveness reminds me of me when I'm ITP. Just a thought.

I'm not good at D1 because there are no associations so I generally go for people who I feel are playing weakly in a scummy way and I think Faye is playing weakly in a scummy way. I don't care about whether or not they have time to post more than once in a day that has no indication of alignment. 

[Rain Nijika]

Ouma, do you think I'm scummy?

[Rain Nijika]

I'll re-read Endeavor. I admittedly rushed through the thread and he was really unmemorable to me so I skipped over him. I didn't think his first filler comment was scummy though.

[Kamina]

I wouldn't say I'm being overly defensive, nor would I say I haven't been scumhunting.

I have had cases on 3 different people that I feel all have some merit to them.

Meh.

[Rain Nijika]

4 minutes ago, Mello said:

I feel like if Faye isn't posting a lot this phase wen lynch her anyway just because having inactives with bad posts in the game isn't good anyway. Even if it is just that one posts it doesn't make her town.

This is a scum post for reasons I explained earlier in D1 when I found Batter scummy.

[Rain Nijika]

22 hours ago, Beast said:

I hate forming reads ED1. There's so much fussing about nothing and nobody ever finds actual scum. So please don't take this seriously, I'm terrible at forming assumptions based off of the minimal material out there so far.

##Vote: Mercenary Kratos

Nothing much to base this on except your attitude. After a quick readthrough, you stand out to me as being too defensive, especially over the past hour or so. I want to see you firm up your cases on others without relying so much on how they have interacted with you in particular.

This is weird because I wouldn't say we had "minimal material" at this point of the game, and I don't agree with that last point either.

I kinda borderline want to vote Mello.

[Olivier]

Lapis, what are your thoughts on Mercenary Kratos and Dr. Crowler at the moment?