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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: Min Min for the win win

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?



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12 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I think Smash 5 will be in a weird grey area between "port" and "new game". Kind of like Splatoon 2, there will be re-used assets and mechanics will return alongside new content and improvements on old mechanics.

This is what I'm expecting, too.

I really just want people to realize that we don't know one way or the other if it's a full port, a partial port, or a brand new game. We just don't have enough information. People are scrutinizing the tiniest details (as Smash fans do, and as I myself have done in the past) and calling them irrefutable evidence, and it's ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, alatartheblue42 said:

I suppose we have a large number of FE characters already and I don't particularly want any of them actually cut, but I'd still like to see more diversity. I don't expect any non-lords simply because of popularity and stuff, but some other weapons would be nice. I'd love a Hector or Micaiah, and even more a mounted unit or a Manakete, but even the first two are unlikely unfortunately.

Yes please! I need Micaiah in Smash!

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Anybody hoping for Micaiah is going to be disappointed. Don't get your hopes up at all. She wasn't even picked over Ike who is still in as far as we know. She didn't even get a trophy while Sothe did. She has no chance.

It's not good for people to have unrealistic expectations. You'll just end up disappointed, as I said.

Edited by Anacybele

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Honestly, as far as Fire Emblem representation goes, I'd prefer if they started from the ground up. I think Marth, Lyn and Ike should be guarantees: the former being the franchises first lord, and the other two being the most popular characters of their respective genders. From there, they can expand however they want (eg. Robin is a good choice as his mechanics do project many Fire Emblem mechanics, as well as Awakening representation which is inevitable). With that said, I fully expect all the Fire Emblem characters to return with them just adding the upcoming Switch one, add no one or add Celica. 

Out of characters I'm gunning for... there aren't many left, to be honest. As far as characters go, Smash has most of the great inclusions, despite some eyebrow raisers (Kid Icarus/FE bias, Gen 1 over-saturated and so on). 

I'd be excited for any of the following:

  • Starfy: Extremely unlikely. Series is dead.
  • Issac: Extremely unlikely, especially with his removal from even being an AT. Series is dead.
  • Lyn: Most popular Fire Emblem character in the West. Possible, but unlikely due to FE oversaturation and not being new. 
  • Decidueye: Alolan representative. Very possible. 
  • Saki Amamiya: Great N64 game, but the series is dead.
  • Ridley: I guess, possible? Sakurai doesn't want to scale him to size, though. So probably never going to happen if it hasn't at this point.

A lot of other characters I just... don't see the appeal. King K Rool, Dixie, Chrom, Rex (although Pyrrha would be fine) and so on. But hey, if that makes others happy I'm completely fine with them as well.

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6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Anybody hoping for Micaiah is going to be disappointed. Don't get your hopes up at all. She wasn't even picked over Ike who is still in as far as we know. She didn't even get a trophy while Sothe did. She has no chance.

It's not good for people to have unrealistic expectations. You'll just end up disappointed, as I said.

To be honest I always thought that was kinda stupid. For a series with so many characters you'd think the trophy list for FE would be pretty extensive, but at the end getting such small representation is kind of disappointing, specially compared with all those Kirby Hat trophies and pretty much every Kid Icarus enemy.

I say the only pre-Awakening characters that have any remote chance of being in are Lyn and mayyyybe Celica. But even then that's kind of a longshot. Personally I think Anna has a good shot at being in, given she represents the series as a whole and Sakurai would be able to take more liberties with her moveset (Swords, Axes, Bows or any combination within).

As for whoever the FE Switch Lord is... I doubt Him/Her will be on the base roster. Heck, I'm even doubting FE Switch might even come before Smash. He/She'll be a solid DLC candidate though.

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7 hours ago, Florete said:

This has been in development for at least two years now. No way it's a straight port with only a little bit of new added content. If it was, we'd probably know that by now. They're teasing it as a new game, so if it is partially a port (which I think it is) it's going to be like Splatoon 2 where enough stuff is changed or added to make it feel like a new game.

I don't really believe it's just a direct port either. Nintendo would become the biggest troll ever to tease a new smash bros game only for it to be a direct port of Wii U smash. I'm however going to be remain cautious about this until Nintendo decides to tell us more information about this just to save myself potential grief and disappointment later though I do agree that if it was port there would be no reason to keep it a secret. Besides, its been four years since the last game so there should have been plenty of time to start work on the fifth game.

Despite saying it could be a port I feel like it has to be Smash 5 because how else is Nintendo going to reach their proposed Switch console sales this year? They already used Zelda and Mario last year and I don't think Pokémon and Metroid are coming this year either. Mario Kart 9 is probably not coming around until 2019/2020. So besides Smash that just leaves Fire Emblem and I suppose Yoshi as well though I don't think either of those series are going to move consoles that much. So unless I'm missing something I think Nintendo is betting on Smash to meet console sales.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If they wanted to use Jack Frost, they probably wouldn't use plain old Jack. Black Frost seems to be the "standard" unique Jack Frost, other ones being: Frost Ace, King Frost, Raiho, Demoneehoo, and Lucifroz. Better than any boring and typical silent SMT protag with a sword, gun, and comp (and sometimes magic and without the sword, gun, and comp- like the Demi-Fiend).

Wait, are you saying that they wouldn't use Jack Frost as a potential third party rep? I feel like he would fit into Smash nicely and would be a good choice due to being Atlus' mascot and effectively being their version of Pikachu.

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Given how popular FE has become, I think it would be a good idea to add an item (probably an Einherjar card) which is pretty much a Pokeball for FE characters. Many lords and popular characters can be added, and it can allow for many favorites to appear without being part of the roster.

As far as hopes go I don’t have much to ask for but here’s what I have

- Add a Subspace Emissary or some sort of adventure mode. Smash Tour isn’t going to cut it lol.

- Make clones such as Dr. Mario/Lucina/Dark Pit alternate costumes instead of giving them a roster spot.

- Make custom moves more like Miis/Palutena instead of just alternate variations like before 

- Add Decidueye, Lyn, and Shadow. ^w^

 

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Some slight, non character specific, gameplay changes I'd like to see.

*Palutena like design for alternate special attacks. Obviously making special moves clones of each other makes for easier development, but universally making it so special moves are cloned is just limiting. There’s so much untapped potential for special moves, especially among the cast that have been in several games already and have had expanded their abilities in their original series. And I don’t want special moves to be unlockables (and especially not unlocked by random chance where you can pick up one you already have), give me all the characters specials to begin with and eliminate the idea of a default special set.

*Related to the above, disconnect the equipment from the special customization. I really like some characters alternate specials, but I can’t use them anywhere in pvp as no customization is like a universal rule to remove plain old superior equipment.

*Modify the equipment system so it isn’t hundreds of near identical badges. I like the way they were stickers in Brawl, even if I never used them as they were Subspace Emissary exclusive. But at least the stickers gave them some flavor and allowed references to load of minor characters and series.

*I’d like to see some more character specific equipment too. Like if Lucina doesn’t get into the game, maybe a piece of equipment for Marth that removes the tipper from his sword so he fights like her. Or a piece of equipment that increases Robin’s tome usage. Or a Mirror Shield sticker for Link that lets him reflect projectiles using his shield, instead of just blocking them.

*Make it so recoveries don't induce a helpless state when used on the ground. This is mostly to avoid suiciding off things like Ganondorf or Falcon's side special, but it could also lead to some really cool combos (like Marth acting out of Dolphin Slash, though they probably shouldn’t be able to use their specials twice if launched from the ground, because two successive Dolphin Slashes might be too useful).

*A stock mode where you can choose a different character for each stock. They sort of had this in the last game, but it was regulated to that one mini game so it practically didn’t exist.

*Make every regular background available for Custom Stage mode. So I can put in the background for Castle Siege or something. Despite how expansive the stage builder became, it still feels like the same three stages over and over because of the limited backdrop selection.

*Probably never happen, but some kind of customized appearance mode. Loads of characters have alternate costumes, it’d be kind of cool if you could mix and match the characters appearance by swapping out individual items. Like give Shulk the Monado III along with the various armour sets he has access to in Xenoblade. Or change the appearance of the Sword/Shield/Hat that Link wears. Obviously this would be more limiting to some characters than others (like how would you change Donkey Kong beyond different ties? Actually I suppose you could give him Punch Out boxing gloves), but in general I think it’d be pretty cool.

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7 hours ago, Jave said:

To be honest I always thought that was kinda stupid. For a series with so many characters you'd think the trophy list for FE would be pretty extensive, but at the end getting such small representation is kind of disappointing, specially compared with all those Kirby Hat trophies and pretty much every Kid Icarus enemy.

Yeah, that was the only thing I didn't like about Smash 4, Sakurai was too biased for his own series. He had those assets from Kirby and Kid Icarus readily available since he'd worked on those games, but a niche game like Kid Icarus having more content than a major series like FE is still dumb. Actually, it had more than any series, which is dumb.

I also agree Micaiah should've had a trophy if Sothe did.

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I was talking about this with a friend yesterday but i really hope they rework Rosalina's Luma bullshit. I was remembering a match i had and i put Rosalina to sleep (i was Jigglypuff) and i was gonna use Rest to take the last stock but nah, Luma can still attack while Rosalina's asleep and so i was knocked away and it gave my opponent the time to wake up. I lost the match a few seconds later. Rosalina being able to defend herself when she's asleep or grabbed is just bullshit. I would've won that match otherwise. I hated Rosalina during the early days of Smash 4. Nowadays, i don't really give a shit though i do feel that Rosalina needs to be reworked.

Another thing i was talking about with the same friend was how Sakurai wanted to include Takamaru but he was way too obscure to make that happen. And i was thinking, maybe Takamaru could be the next Little Mac.

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3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, that was the only thing I didn't like about Smash 4, Sakurai was too biased for his own series. He had those assets from Kirby and Kid Icarus readily available since he'd worked on those games, but a niche game like Kid Icarus having more content than a major series like FE is still dumb. Actually, it had more than any series, which is dumb.

I also agree Micaiah should've had a trophy if Sothe did.

And yet he added so many FE characters, a point people and Sakurai bring up a lot. I think I also heard somewhere that Sakurai also really liked FE, though don't quote me on that. I think FE arguably is in the same boat as KI, just that instead of more side content, it's more characters.

That being said, I think it's sorta silly to argue about how much content a "small series" "deserves". I didn't really bat an eye at all the KI stuff.

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2 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

And yet he added so many FE characters, a point people and Sakurai bring up a lot. I think I also heard somewhere that Sakurai also really liked FE, though don't quote me on that. I think FE arguably is in the same boat as KI, just that instead of more side content, it's more characters.

That being said, I think it's sorta silly to argue about how much content a "small series" "deserves". I didn't really bat an eye at all the KI stuff.

Sakurai does like FE, yeah. His favorite character is Navarre.

It might be a bit silly, but it's not a bad thing to discuss.

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The only time I though Kid Icarus was getting too much attention was in Smash Run, where about 1/10th of the enemies were from KI. Otherwise I don’t see much overexposure. Dark Pit was a flat-out unnecessary addition, but that’s a different story. 

As for Kirby, I feel its representation is on par with other series and never had an issue with it. 

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Some slight, non character specific, gameplay changes I'd like to see.

*Palutena like design for alternate special attacks. Obviously making special moves clones of each other makes for easier development, but universally making it so special moves are cloned is just limiting. There’s so much untapped potential for special moves, especially among the cast that have been in several games already and have had expanded their abilities in their original series. And I don’t want special moves to be unlockables (and especially not unlocked by random chance where you can pick up one you already have), give me all the characters specials to begin with and eliminate the idea of a default special set.

*Related to the above, disconnect the equipment from the special customization. I really like some characters alternate specials, but I can’t use them anywhere in pvp as no customization is like a universal rule to remove plain old superior equipment.

*Modify the equipment system so it isn’t hundreds of near identical badges. I like the way they were stickers in Brawl, even if I never used them as they were Subspace Emissary exclusive. But at least the stickers gave them some flavor and allowed references to load of minor characters and series.

*I’d like to see some more character specific equipment too. Like if Lucina doesn’t get into the game, maybe a piece of equipment for Marth that removes the tipper from his sword so he fights like her. Or a piece of equipment that increases Robin’s tome usage. Or a Mirror Shield sticker for Link that lets him reflect projectiles using his shield, instead of just blocking them.

*Make it so recoveries don't induce a helpless state when used on the ground. This is mostly to avoid suiciding off things like Ganondorf or Falcon's side special, but it could also lead to some really cool combos (like Marth acting out of Dolphin Slash, though they probably shouldn’t be able to use their specials twice if launched from the ground, because two successive Dolphin Slashes might be too useful).

*A stock mode where you can choose a different character for each stock. They sort of had this in the last game, but it was regulated to that one mini game so it practically didn’t exist.

*Make every regular background available for Custom Stage mode. So I can put in the background for Castle Siege or something. Despite how expansive the stage builder became, it still feels like the same three stages over and over because of the limited backdrop selection.

*Probably never happen, but some kind of customized appearance mode. Loads of characters have alternate costumes, it’d be kind of cool if you could mix and match the characters appearance by swapping out individual items. Like give Shulk the Monado III along with the various armour sets he has access to in Xenoblade. Or change the appearance of the Sword/Shield/Hat that Link wears. Obviously this would be more limiting to some characters than others (like how would you change Donkey Kong beyond different ties? Actually I suppose you could give him Punch Out boxing gloves), but in general I think it’d be pretty cool.

Oh, in addition to this (if anyone cares),

*I'd like every character to get an "Air Special" like Links hook shot and Samus' grappling beam. There's a button there doing nothing and that should change.

*I want Final Smashes to be handled differently. Maybe more like Mac's ko punch gauge. They're cool, but the fact that they're tied to smash balls where appear and more randomly, kind of excludes then entirely from the metagame.

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My main want in this game is for Sonic to be more offensively inclined instead of defensive/time out based 

Yes sure he has combos for good damage in Smash 4, but its not exactly the most optimal way to play him in a lot of cases unless your range is fairly equal, or the situation calls for it.

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Two little things I would like to see in this installment:

1a. Marth and Roy (if he returns again) should finally speak English this time since they have established English voice actors now. But since I know people would miss their Japanese voices...

1b. Let us choose between English and Japanese voices, not only that but individually for each applicable character. Seriously, where has this been? While PAL versions have been able to switch the language to others within that region, we haven't been able to switch to Japanese voices since Melee. Think it's time to change that, what with this being the Switch and all, and region-free at that.

2. If Mii Fighters return (and I hope they do because the Switch's Mii maker let's us make the hair, glasses, etc. whatever color we want which opens up more creative Mii Fighter ideas),  then please... let us be able to change their series symbol. I get why they were given the Smash Bros symbol, but Miis can technically be anyone, especially with the aforementioned extended color options. I know it seems like such minor thing to want, but surely at one point or another you've pondered which series you'd want to be filed under if you yourself were in Smash. I know I have.

15 hours ago, Jave said:

Personally I think Anna has a good shot at being in, given she represents the series as a whole and Sakurai would be able to take more liberties with her moveset (Swords, Axes, Bows or any combination within).

That's a pretty good idea. They could make Anna utilize the whole weapon triangle +bows in her moveset (in case you forgot, there are merchant Annas plus Apotheosis Anna in Awakening who can use lances), maybe even use her ballista or cannon special from Warriors as her Final Smash.

Edited by Baron the Shining Blade

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4 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

The only time I though Kid Icarus was getting too much attention was in Smash Run, where about 1/10th of the enemies were from KI. Otherwise I don’t see much overexposure. Dark Pit was a flat-out unnecessary addition, but that’s a different story. 

As for Kirby, I feel its representation is on par with other series and never had an issue with it. 

That was probably due to them being able to bring over enemies from Uprising pretty easily.

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One of the things that I thought both Melee and Brawl did better than Smash 4 was the camera. In smash 4, I always feel like the camera is zoomed out too much, especially in 1v1. I don't think it feels quite right in 4 player matches on most stages either it feels like they use the 8 player camera to me.  I kind of hope that Smash for Switch has a camera that stays closer to the action. since it was one of the main non-charather things that bothered me in Smash 4. 

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10 hours ago, Jotari said:

*Make every regular background available for Custom Stage mode. So I can put in the background for Castle Siege or something. Despite how expansive the stage builder became, it still feels like the same three stages over and over because of the limited backdrop selection.

Oooh, that'd be nice way to add variety to stages.

I have to disagree on the stage builder being more expansive though. I thought it was kinda underwhelming in Smash 4. I prefer having preset blocks and other features as opposed to having to draw them, even if drawing allowed you to create dumb "no tech zone" stages.

Ideally, i'd like to see a combination of Brawl and Smash 4's Stage Builder. You can give me the option to draw the stages but at the same time let me have preset blocks and more features. 

Just looking at the differences between Brawl and Smash 4's Stage Builders, the former has a lot more options than the latter.

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Oooh, that'd be nice way to add variety to stages.

I have to disagree on the stage builder being more expansive though. I thought it was kinda underwhelming in Smash 4. I prefer having preset blocks and other features as opposed to having to draw them, even if drawing allowed you to create dumb "no tech zone" stages.

Ideally, i'd like to see a combination of Brawl and Smash 4's Stage Builder. You can give me the option to draw the stages but at the same time let me have preset blocks and more features. 

Just looking at the differences between Brawl and Smash 4's Stage Builders, the former has a lot more options than the latter.

I wouldn't say "a lot". Not counting the aesthetic visuals some of the Brawl pieces had (like the cyber "tunnel" or the ruined structure), you can trace a bunch of the Brawl structures, whether you're using curved or straight lines. Otherwise, Brawl has 5 items not in Sm4sh (the rotating platforms, ladder, ice block, drop block, and conveyor belt) and Sm4sh has one thing (combining the two cannons) Brawl doesn't. I'm not counting the spikes and lava as different given their similar functions improved upon by the freedom of where to put lava. I get your point about the preset blocks, though, even if you can make straight edges with the grid.

Edited by NoirCore

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Main thing I'm asking myself right now is that since Capcom got two characters in Smash 4, do Sega and Namco have the chance as well? (Remember that Sega by extension includes Atlus as well now). There is quite a demand for Sonic to be joined by a second character, and I'm sure the SMT and Persona crowds would like to see something from their games.

Namco has a lot of stuff going on as well.

Theres also the whole Koei Tecmo and Atlus being particularly buddy buddy with Nintendo of late as well.

Square Enix as always is a wildcard.

Could mean nothing (hell it probably is nothing). But that does make me speculate.

Also, if Indies get brought up, I always think that's Cave Story or Shovel Knight would have first dibs at that, the Switch is pushing an Indie involved scene so it may be a possibility. (Sakurai also loves his gaming history so CS being the first widely known Indie effort might give it the edge).

Again just speculation, and I was thinking about both at work.

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They need to remove FE characters. As much as people love their mains and whatnot, Fire Emblem is going to cannibalize Smash if they never remove characters and just keep adding FE characters every new Smash.

At the very least, rework some FE characters like Robin into like, Golden Sun characters(Golden Sun desperately needs some love. Camelot can't subsist on making Mario Sports games forever) or something. Instead of it being Robin calling upon spells, it can be Isaac calling upon Djinn or something. Consolidate Lucina and Roy into Marth costumes. Obliterate Corrin. Keep Marth and Ike and add new lords to promote new games.

Edited by Slumber

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29 minutes ago, Slumber said:

They need to remove FE characters. As much as people love their mains and whatnot, Fire Emblem is going to cannibalize Smash if they never remove characters and just keep adding FE characters every new Smash.

At the very least, rework some FE characters like Robin into like, Golden Sun characters(Golden Sun desperately needs some love. Camelot can't subsist on making Mario Sports games forever) or something. Instead of it being Robin calling upon spells, it can be Isaac calling upon Djinn or something. Consolidate Lucina and Roy into Marth costumes. Obliterate Corrin. Keep Marth and Ike and add new lords to promote new games.

I don't see Robin & Corrin going anywhere, their movesets are too unique and Sakurai is too much of a stickiler of people being fans of characters, I don't see Lucina going into pallete mode, if anything she'll probably be made more diverse. 

Roy was made more diverse, I don't see them making him a costume either, considering he and Marths styles are polar opposites to the point of their sweetspots being polar opposite, I don't think that'd work. 

If any of them get the axe it'll probably be Roy, but I don't see that happening.

Edited by Jedi

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13 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I don't see Robin & Corrin going anywhere, their movesets are too unique and Sakurai is too much of a stickiler of people being fans of characters, I don't see Lucina going into pallete mode, if anything she'll probably be made more diverse. 

Roy was made more diverse, I don't see them making him a costume either, considering he and Marths styles are polar opposites to the point of their sweetspots being polar opposite, I don't think that'd work.

Then we're going to run into a problem very quickly where Fire Emblem takes up a massively disproportionate chunk of the roster, and it's only going to piss more people off.

You thought the bitching about 5 FE characters in Sm4sh's roster was bad? Well now we have Roy thanks to DLC, and probably even more with, almost certainly, a new Fire Emblem character coming in to represent FE Switch, bringing the total to 7. If this game has less than 70 playable characters, Fire Emblem's going to take up at least 1/10th of the whole thing. Then who knows what'll come with DLC for this game, and come the NEXT Smash, expect Fire Emblem to be upwards of 10 characters in the roster, taking up an even more sizable fraction of the playable cast.

Best case scenario is to rework some existing FE characters into non-FE characters, like Robin and Isaac(It's a bit of a stretch, but it could work).

Also, Sakurai's reworked characters into other characters before. Mewtwo is WAY more popular than Lucina, but he got the boot in Brawl in favor of Lucario, who basically was a reworked concept of Mewtwo. Mewtwo eventually came back, but he was booted for two whole games until coming back as DLC.

As for just cuts, Ice Climbers also got the boot. Wolf, who was more different from Fox than Lucina is from Marth, also was cut from Smash U.

If characters are up for the chopping block, I guarantee Fire Emblem's the first to get some cuts.

Edited by Slumber

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