Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Killthestory]

7 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I was wary of Conq/Rapier but I think I'm getting some town vibes from Conq's posts and his weird Refa tunnel at the moment.

I don't see why Scum!Conq would push/tunnel Refa like this when logic dictates that Refa is more likely gonna be town because of the reaction, at least in my eyes.

i think that conq is a townie from the recents, but i think because they're tunneling for weird reasons is a flimsy argument. 

[Conqueror]

Oh, I forgot he posted #4. 

Meh, from what I'm getting from y'all you have a really low opinion of Refa's scum play or something. In his position as scum, I could see myself making the posts he did. Especially if it's deliberate spew to throw people off. Maybe I'm just more survival oriented than he is? 

Shinori please. For the record I don't really think this would be out of my scum range in a hypo town!refa scum!me position. Right now though I'm just trying  toundestanf  his thought process min us the whole claim thing since again it's still off to me.

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Conqueror said:

Oh, I forgot he posted #4. 

Meh, from what I'm getting from y'all you have a really low opinion of Refa's scum play or something. In his position as scum, I could see myself making the posts he did. Especially if it's deliberate spew to throw people off. Maybe I'm just more survival oriented than he is? 

Shinori please. For the record I don't really think this would be out of my scum range in a hypo town!refa scum!me position. Right now though I'm just trying  toundestanf  his thought process min us the whole claim thing since again it's still off to me.

no, my expectations of what his scum play would probably look like is a lot higher than i think you realize, and that's why i support the argument that he isn't just "demotivated scum" as i was telling you earlier. 

[Conqueror]

I was mostly talking about the response to the guilty. But then it would be weird if he were demotivated scum in that position and didnt just roll over. Hmm.

[Baldrick]

I wrote this in Notepad before. I didn't want to do anything dumb like accidently hit post or something..

##vote: Refa

tl;dr Throughout day 1, his opinion on Randa's content was changing, but he was consistently against the Randa wagon without looking into the people or cases on him. D2 he also disliked the consensus on Randa/RAD, but his effort to build a counterwagon was non-existent.

too short: please elaborate

Spoiler

 

Summary of his other reads.

Gut scum read Baldrick/SB for their Randa votes.
Hasn't read Randa

After reading, thinks my vote is fine, his priority is Shinori > Randa > SB
Shinori is pushing weakly and has weird voteswaps.
SB is distant, elaborates in a later post.
Agrees with via's read on evan.
Eventually relents on Shinori. When he unvotes, Randa is no longer in the priority.

 

His first read on Randa.
Like Randa's vote on shinori, identified one post that was tonally town.
But Randa was filler in general, and his non-Shinori cases are lackluster.

Refa has two tones here.
To Athena, he is uneasy about the wagon on Randa, and says there are multiple posts that give him a town vibe. Randa hadn't posted since he identified that one post.
To SB, who he is scumreading, and is on the Randa wagon, he's much more neutral about Randa. Asks for an example of Randa backpedalling. Acknowledges he's been defending too much, and puts it down to the game situation/rustiness on Randa's part.

 

Spoiler

 

D2 reads

His SB opinion at is also weird. He liked SB's later progression on Evan, but he did so while voting Athena and never swapped his vote over? Granted, he didn't need to, but given how you think he's been distant, you're alright with how he used his vote?

That's the second time this game somebody's had a paragraph on why they don't like Eury, and concluded that Eury is town. At least you shared why you thought Eury was town.

Agree with other people that it makes no sense to say you're sheeping JB on Mack/Elemina. If he wasn't voting evan to save his scumbuddy, why wouldn't he vote randa as scum?

For the Athena case:
- Saying he didn't go anywhere with his questions is harsh. Randa didn't respond at all, Evan didn't respond at all, Ice responded a little bit, you responded a lot, he engaged with you and concluded his read on you wasn't very strong.
- Links one of SB's D1 posts, has yet to address Athena's D1 response to that post.
- Why are you interpreting Athena's frustration as "mad at SB being right for the wrong reasons"? You've gotten frustrated at people calling your reads surface-level.

 

D2 1/6
Evan flipping town has made him ... bothered by the Randa wagon. His stance on Randa is now that people have been "ignoring his contributions", what contributions are those?. He likes the slot better on a re-read because Randa's Shinori progression is good, but he already thought that yesterday. What about the other lackluster cases?

Shinori's guilty claim was a thing, but he didn't respond to Athena beyond the initial case. For posts 2-4, he was understandably distracted, but 5/6 is just a response block that doesn't include the person he's voting. That was basically his last chance to build a counterwagon to Randa, if he felt so strongly against his lynch. Post 6/6 is exactly what I want to ask. I would have expected Athena, but they didn't have any votes on them.

 

----

Re: the "would Refa give up iafter being 1v1'd", I have a theory on that, but I've got to think it through for a bit.

 

 

 

[Refa]

Zzzzz, getting voted even though I'm obviously town.  Should have just played more DRv3.

Conq's case is in bad faith (if my reaction was so obviously faked, you would have mentioned it earlier, not after "thinking it over"), Baldrick's case has more of a thought process but I don't get where it says why I'm scum lol.

Eurykins and Elemina are still scum from yesterday unless I missed some telling posts today.

@athena_57 Why did you drop your SB case if it was bullshit?  Fair enough on lacking experience being a townie.  It's fine to state reasons that you're doubting your read on me, but it read to me like "nah, Refa could do this as town, but he's totally scum guys".  Like WTF?  I don't get how you adequately explained my issues with your lack of progression at all, please quote the exact section from your quote walls that you're referring too.  

Man, first you're like "lol, RAD is obvious scum" yesterday and say my defense is shit and today you're like "well, the ONLY reason someone wouldn't think that RAD is obvious scum is if they knew he was town" which is fucking stupid.  Why would I progress from casing the slot D1 to not being okay w/the lynch when it's up on D2 if Scum!Me was buddying with the slot?  Also, my Shinori case was hostile because I was sure that he was scum voting me (especially considering FHPOV, he should have been voting Randa).

Your defense did affect my opinion on you but I want you to reply to me before I say anything on that front.

@Ice Sage Your position on my slot is unclear, earlier you said you were suspicious of me but then later on you said that cleared and I'm not sure why.  Please explain.

[Baldrick]

Refa, did you miss my tl;dr or are you saying it's unclear?

Where were you voting at phase end?

[Refa]

Conq's explanation for why he voted Randa if he thought I was guilty doesn't do it for me.  If he had to go through the ordeal of reconsidering all of his reads, then he'd have to be sure that I was scum to begin with.  

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

Refa, did you miss my tl;dr or are you saying it's unclear?

Where were you voting at phase end?

All of my D1 cases were either on Randa voters or Randa himself.  Honestly, I didn't make more of an effort because it felt hopeless when every other post was a ##Randa.  Didn't really think I could change the vote until after Randa claimed and people were like "huh, maybe Randa is town after all" and it was like 10 minutes from deadline when I read that.

Shinori, forgot to change my vote in my PM.

[Refa]

*begin with.  In which case, there's no reason for Town!Conq to vote me over Randa over the nebulous reason of "having been burned by the role game".

[Conqueror]

What the fuck? I never said your reaction was obviously faked. I said as much yesterday. 

[Conqueror]

Obviously I voted Randa because I thought he was scum. Point out where I thought you were guilty yesterday. I said I didn't know. Hell, I eve considered that you were town. 

[Conqueror]

Hey Refa, you never answered any of my questions. What content was Randa contributing that made you think he was town?

[Refa]

@Conqueror Randa's slot had decent progression on his Shinori read and when pressed by other people, his responses didn't read like scum making up excuses.  That's why I defended him on D2.  The only time the slot felt lazy to me was RAD, but even then I wasn't bothered by his posts.  Who do you think are my scumbuddies?  You not pushing anyone outside of me is very strange, especially considering you mentioned expecting to have mind melded w/me lol.  How can you mind meld with me when your only suspicion is me????

7 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

What the fuck? I never said your reaction was obviously faked. I said as much yesterday. 

3 hours ago, Conqueror said:

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think refa's reaction to the guilty was bad. I have no idea why people think it's remotely town. Refa had just cased shinori, putting him as his #1 scum read with quote "obvious scum intent". And his reaction to Shinori claiming a guilty on him in his last post of the day is not "lynch this lying scumbag" but "lol I guess we're both town". @Refa, can you explain why you changed your mind so easily on Shinori' alignment? I could understand it if you weren't strongly scum reading him before, but you were. And as someone who has had a fake guilty claimed on them before, your turnaround just felt too fast for me to be believable. Why couldn't scum Shinori have faked a guulty on you and then used some sort of excuse to get away with it the next day? Logically it would be unlikely yeah but when someone claims a guilty on you you're not going to be in a logical mood.

Apologies if you addressed part of this yesterday but I can't read extensively right now and i don't remember what you did after the fake was revealed.

What's this then?

Shinori was getting called out for his case on me already, there's no way Scum!Shinori doubles down on that lol.

2 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Obviously I voted Randa because I thought he was scum. Point out where I thought you were guilty yesterday. I said I didn't know. Hell, I eve considered that you were town. 

On 5/16/2018 at 10:57 PM, Conqueror said:

Because this game is already painful enough to read with all the walls. After I took scum!Refa into account I pretty much had to redo my reads and rethink the gamestate, since Refa wasn't really a top scumspect for me at the time. No point in posting my outdated reads/questions after that, but you'll get a rehashed version in this post now that you've retracted.

Who redoes all of their reads on someone that they're not even sure is scum?

Read Eury's posts today, they seem more like frustrated responses w/Shinori over actually pushing anyone.

Athena and SB's Bartozio cases are probably good.  I'm skimming at this point (wallposts OP) but I agree with Athena that Bartozio didn't really strongly push anyone and mostly went along with the consensus reads.  @SB. Why were Bartozio's cases inconsistent?

I don't agree with the Kill cases at all.  He's been playing very differently from his last game, where he was very reactionary.  Here, it seems like he's following his own suspicions (and I don't see why Scum!Kill would dismiss me/Ice because we're too popular lol) and there's nothing that particularly bothers me?  I'm not going to get on his case for lack of activity considering myself lol.  I also feel strongly about SB being town at this point, can explain this more if people need me too but I haven't seen anyone case him today except Kill (also, my gut reaction to the no kill was SB getting docced lol).  SB/Kill should stop thunderdoming IMO.

##Vote: Conqueror

I'm okay with voting Bartozio.  I'd also vote Eurykins.  Elemina is bad but I'm like...there's not as much to go off of there for me.

[Refa]

Also to add to why I believed Shinori, IMO as scum he'd get one of the weaker scum members to claim a guilty on me, not do it himself.  Way better 1 for 1 trade.

[Conqueror]

Randa's progression on his Shinori read was shit given that he jumped off of it within hours. How was the progression decent? What part of it couldn't have come from scum?

What about his responses didn't feel like scum making up excuses?

I'm not mind melding with you because I think you're scum, which is why we have such divergent reads. Who else am I pushing? I said I'd figure that out when I wasn't phone posting at work. If this case wasn't in bad faith you'd have seen that.

Why are you so fucking passive aggressive?

 

You just quoted stuff from two different days with a flip in between.

 

[Conqueror]

Who redoes all of their reads on someone that they're not even sure is scum?

 

huh, when there's a potential cop guilty on the table, why wouldn't I redo my reads? Really activates my almonds.

[Refa]

3 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Randa's progression on his Shinori read was shit given that he jumped off of it within hours. How was the progression decent? What part of it couldn't have come from scum?

What about his responses didn't feel like scum making up excuses?

I'm not mind melding with you because I think you're scum, which is why we have such divergent reads. Who else am I pushing? I said I'd figure that out when I wasn't phone posting at work. If this case wasn't in bad faith you'd have seen that.

Why are you so fucking passive aggressive?

You just quoted stuff from two different days with a flip in between.

Why would Scum!Randa jump off of his only case?  It didn't seem to have scum motivation from me, which is why I wasn't bothered by it.

When people called him out on making fluff posts and he explained why he didn't see where they were coming from.

I don't really buy that.  Even if you have to reevaluate your suspicions later, surely you'd have some people you're suspicious of by virtue of reading through the thread.

Not trying to be, sorry.

I did.  I don't get what your point is, though.

5 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Who redoes all of their reads on someone that they're not even sure is scum?

huh, when there's a potential cop guilty on the table, why wouldn't I redo my reads? Really activates my almonds.

My point is, this means that at the time, you were sure enough that I was scum to redo all of your reads on me.  In which case, why didn't you vote me (the basis of redoing all of your reads on, not to mention the target of a cop guilty) over Randa/RAD?  That seems ingenuine to me.

[SB.]

hi i didn’t actually sleep yet but i think i’m mostly coherent. please calm down conq and don’t get actually mad.

just to summarise your refa scumread is because of A. his randa defence and B. having different reads, right? if i missed something im sorry, but do you think scum refa benefits from being a vote hipster and sticking out? to me it seems counterproductive to go all in on shinori when nobody wanted him lynched and it was easy town wagons for the first few days. i don’t think defending radrad would have acrually gotten him cred unless somehow the lynch was avoided. it kinda feels like you’ve muddled “this doesn’t mean he’s clear” with “this means that he’s scum” in the last few pages but im not sure if thats just because you’re annoyed or not rn.

also my opinion of refa’s scumplay isn’t low but i feel like the victim of his demotivation was moreso him not being especially hard pushing with his cases, which matches with nobody listening to him last game. i can see frustrated town refa working with the lens of “nobody will listen to me anyway” subconsciously and think that scum refa would conform more and try to play lowkey because he doesn’t benefit from extra effort. i dont think refa is aways lazy but i dont think he goes above and beyond when he doesnt think thst he needs to, or at least thats my impression of his scumgame.

will find the quote for refa in a minute (or a few, on mobile) but if you ISO bart and look for his opinion on athena with a post about conq’s case looking good iirc he said athena had a good defence right before i. it was super jarring to me so it looked like he was just posting as be read without an continuous town thought process.

[SB.]

On 16/05/2018 at 6:05 PM, Bartozio said:

Like the way Athena is pressuring Ice Sage, think it's a lot better then how he pressuredZeus last game.

Conqs first post felt good, he made a good case on Athena and I fully agree with his opinion on the wagon analyses.
@athena_57, what does lynching on the Evan wagon do for your reads if it's not Rad? Are you convinced enough to keep lynching on the wagon until you actually hit scum?

this isn’t editted. it’s all from the same post in that order, which just doesn’t feel real to me lol.

[Conqueror]

In a scum!Randa world, he jumped off because he was getting pressure for it, and he jumped onto kts instead. Seems pretty straightforward to me, I dont see how or why scum wouldn't jump off their only case.

And...? How is that alignment indicative at all?

Sorry, but I'm not wasting any more company time reading the thread. I already said I thought Bart was a possible candidate for scum earlier but I not going to be pretend I have anything more than that. I think Ice Sage is another good bet for scum. I have one other scum read I'm not going to bring up for now because it's not useful if they're town.

 

Nope. I've explained this already. I wasn't sure that you were scum at all. When I said I redid my reads, I was rethinking the game state to consider you as scum, but I didn't think it was a sure thing. But since you being scum torpedoed my previous scumpicks, I had to come up with new reads to fit. I didn't feel like posting reads just to retract them later, so I was thinking about your alignment first before I came to an decision on who to vote.

Explain why my thought process is ingenuine and I'll give you a cookie.

[Conqueror]

@SB

Any of the "this doesnt mean he's clear" was aimed at other people saying refa was town for such and such.

My scum case on him hasn't been fleshed out since I haven't been at a computer.so far I've mostly brought up small things to try and get into his thought process.

Do I think scum refa cpuld have done to se things? Yes. Also, afaict refa's case on Shinori was in response to Shinori's case on him, no matter what refa's alignment is here. 

Okay that Bart quote makes e feel better about a Bart lynch but it doesn't make me want to lynch refa less

[Baldrick]

Read COnq's 2/5 on Rand v Refa. Voting based on where you see scum intent was fair, but the only problem is that voting Refa first meant Rad had more time to post.

 

Conq, at that stage, what did you think of Rad? Did you think he had stalled for too long, or were you still wanting to judge him on his content?

[Conqueror]

Wasn't it something like 12 hours to deadline? At that point I was pretty done with waiting for posts he said he was working on since the start of the day. I thought he was flaking scum, which is why I was tempted to lynch him anyway.

[Baldrick]

 

1 hour ago, Refa said:

All of my D1 cases were either on Randa voters or Randa himself.  Honestly, I didn't make more of an effort because it felt hopeless when every other post was a ##Randa.  Didn't really think I could change the vote until after Randa claimed and people were like "huh, maybe Randa is town after all" and it was like 10 minutes from deadline when I read that.

 I don't buy this. You said that you were demotivated because, "I put a hella lot of effort into the last game and felt like I lost through no fault of my own".  (from the 1/6 post).

If you thought Randa's lynch was bad and inevitable,  that quote doesn't fit with the detail you put into the post.

[SB.]

just realised that i forgot to respond to kill earlier but i dont think i have that much to say. honestly i did not follow last game that closely because >200 pages even though i was the host, but still this shit is from trying to break out of RVS. 

can’really say anyrhing on the unmemorable front but i dont think i’ve avoided people who’ve suspected me. generally i’ve used it to get better reads on them (refa, you) and if you don’t see it that way then idk I’ve been trying to get things out of you and until now you hadn’t given me like anything to work with. also i dont think my reads are scattered except maybe today but uhh i blame alcohol for that one.

inclined to think that this is town conq because the push feels more organic reading it again and i dont think scum conq gets this frustrated because it’s not like scum!conq would need town!refa to die today. still feeling fairly confident in town!refa based on their reads and i think the way he’s been kinda demotivated makes more sense from town than scum.

don’t agree with baldrick’s refa case but i’ll let refa answer him because i should actually sleep now lol. if i come back someone please tell me to go to bed.