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AnonymousSpeed

Did sea levels recede between FE1/2/3 and this game?

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So, I was comparing the maps from FE1/FE2 and Awakening, and it seems to me like, for the most part, there's more land on the map in Awakening. New islands, lakes and seas are now mainland, etc, etc, though there are a few places where there appears to be water where there was once land. I was wondering what other changes the rest of you noticed to the geography.

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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26 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Mila's temple turned into a wyvern valley despite wyverns not existing in Gaiden...

I don't think its supposed to be quite the same location, just in the general area. Wyvrens being imported between Gaiden and Awakening seems like a decent enough explanation for their presence.

But generally speaking Awakening didn't really do paralogue locations very well. You actually get to visit one of Mila's temples so it would have made more sense to just place that temple where Mila's main temple originally stood. Th paralogue of Laurent also shows that there's a desert in southern Ylisse that definitely seems out of place there. They should just have placed his recruitment map in the middle of Plegia. 

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2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think its supposed to be quite the same location, just in the general area. Wyvrens being imported between Gaiden and Awakening seems like a decent enough explanation for their presence.

But generally speaking Awakening didn't really do paralogue locations very well. You actually get to visit one of Mila's temples so it would have made more sense to just place that temple where Mila's main temple originally stood. Th paralogue of Laurent also shows that there's a desert in southern Ylisse that definitely seems out of place there. They should just have placed his recruitment map in the middle of Plegia. 

All the inconsistencies can be rationalized, but plausible does not equal sensible. Macedonia would have been a much better place to put Wyvern Valley. There's so many inconsistencies and lack of proper cohesion, that I'm slightly baffled they even made Ylisse future Archanea. I mean, obviously it was intended to be fan service for the possible last game, but aside from Lucina's Marth disguise, Tiki and Naga (which just brings up more questions), there's basically nothing that actually connects the two games. Even Marth as an ancestor to Chrom is completely superfluous as all the special stuff comes from the First Exalt (not to mention rather meaningless given the obscene amount of time they set the two games apart from each other).

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52 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There's so many inconsistencies and lack of proper cohesion, that I'm slightly baffled they even made Ylisse future Archanea.

I think the reasoning behind exploring the future of Archenea was money. Awakening needed to sell to ensure the series wouldn't be killed. With such pressure the devs might have thought appealing to the Archenean nostalgia of the Japanese fanbase and the familiarity everyone has with ''Marth'' might have been a good idea. 

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12 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the reasoning behind exploring the future of Archenea was money. Awakening needed to sell to ensure the series wouldn't be killed. With such pressure the devs might have thought appealing to the Archenean nostalgia of the Japanese fanbase and the familiarity everyone has with ''Marth'' might have been a good idea. 

That's indeed obvious as to why they pitched it, but what confuses me is why they didn't lean into it any further. Like why not make Grima Medeus? Or have Gotoh make an appearance (as someone used to rant about, he would have made more sense in Tiki's role than Tiki herself)? Or give Walhart a Falchion (that's actually the games biggest missed opportunity imo)? Or make Nowi a fire dragon (since unless she's Gotoh and Xane's daughter, her existence is flagrantly contradictory to the previous canon)? Or like set it within a reasonable enough time frame that some of the countries from FE1 still exist. I don't think such changes would necessarily be even better, but the fact that they made Ylisse Archania and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with the idea just seems...well weird. If you're going to have fanservice, why not go the full haul (which they did in other aspects like the Einherjar). As it stands you could change like four names, Lucina's disguised character design, the Dread Lords weapons and a bit of the maps and nobody would even think they share the same universe.

Edited by Jotari

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On 7/1/2018 at 8:36 AM, Jotari said:

Like why not make Grima Medeus?

My old fantheory, before they invented SoV's backstory for Gimle, was that it was an aggregate being born of Medeus and all the Earth Dragons beneath the Table. As centuries pass and they are suffocated by the Binding Shield, they degenerate to the point their minds, body and power meld, and above all their shared hatred for humanity becomes one. Eventually this gradual fusion into a "one who is many" entity ends up having a synergistic effect which is actually able to overpower the Binding Shield and thus breaks though the barrier. The sentient mass then solidifies into a physical form, taking the name Grima. For it was born of degeneracy and hate, it only knows those things and seeks dominance and destruction.

On 7/1/2018 at 8:36 AM, Jotari said:

Or have Gotoh make an appearance (as someone used to rant about, he would have made more sense in Tiki's role than Tiki herself)?

Not helped at all by the fact Bantu is implied to somehow be still alive. If that dried chile is still around, where the heck is Gotoh, and where is the much younger Xane?

On 7/1/2018 at 7:28 AM, Jotari said:

(not to mention rather meaningless given the obscene amount of time they set the two games apart from each other).

Ah yes, 2000 years, an amount of time exceeding any distance between prior legendary heroes (Anri, Heim, Athos, Altina etc.) and the present day by at the least twofold.

2000 years IRL is also sufficient for climates and geography to change to a degree, but barring a cataclysmic climatic event, there is absolutely no way Archanea could have changed that much in that timeframe. Though FE is fantasy and not real, therefore when something doesn't seem realistic, you can fall back on:

Ooh-ooooh It's magic- you know! Ne-ver be-lieve it's not so! It's magic- you know!

...Or they could have invented Not-The-Ending-Winter as a cataclysmic event that turns Macedon into a litter box and such, that be magical, but with a realistic plausibility rooted in things like volcanic/meteoric winters and whatnot.

 

On 7/1/2018 at 7:21 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Th paralogue of Laurent also shows that there's a desert in southern Ylisse that definitely seems out of place there.

As a bit of an aside, the Grann Desert in Tellius doesn't make too much sense either. It's a fairly large patch of sand surrounded by mountains right smack dap in the middle of Tellius's superpower. I mean we don't know much about Begnion's geography, but it just doesn't seem like it should be there, other than providing the players with a plausible place to fight in the best possible terrain conditions ever. Goldoa suffices as desert lands in Tellius, not that you can even be sure it is desert unless you read the Recollection- before that I just assumed semi-barren hilly highlands.

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5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As a bit of an aside, the Grann Desert in Tellius doesn't make too much sense either. It's a fairly large patch of sand surrounded by mountains right smack dap in the middle of Tellius's superpower. I mean we don't know much about Begnion's geography, but it just doesn't seem like it should be there, other than providing the players with a plausible place to fight in the best possible terrain conditions ever. Goldoa suffices as desert lands in Tellius, not that you can even be sure it is desert unless you read the Recollection- before that I just assumed semi-barren hilly highlands.

But this one is a little special I think. Its doubly odd because Marth went to southern Archenea and there wasn't any desert to be found there. It just seems weird to plop a desert there randomly when there's a perfectly good desert country in Plegia where they could put Laurents recruitment mission.

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On 7/1/2018 at 2:36 PM, Jotari said:

That's indeed obvious as to why they pitched it, but what confuses me is why they didn't lean into it any further. 

Personally I think the choice to make Awakening take place in Archenea came relatively late in development. They had enough time to make a few callbacks here and there, but a lot of the maps, story and designs where already finalized.
 

To me that makes sense considering the weird changes in the world, the Falchion looking very different and the world as a whole not really doing much with the connection to Marth's games.

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On 7/1/2018 at 9:28 PM, Jotari said:

All the inconsistencies can be rationalized, but plausible does not equal sensible. Macedonia would have been a much better place to put Wyvern Valley. There's so many inconsistencies and lack of proper cohesion, that I'm slightly baffled they even made Ylisse future Archanea. I mean, obviously it was intended to be fan service for the possible last game, but aside from Lucina's Marth disguise, Tiki and Naga (which just brings up more questions), there's basically nothing that actually connects the two games. Even Marth as an ancestor to Chrom is completely superfluous as all the special stuff comes from the First Exalt (not to mention rather meaningless given the obscene amount of time they set the two games apart from each other).

To be fair, my approach to Awakening's inconsistencies is not to think on them or try to explain them, just acknowledge they're present. There's way too many of them and it's easier to instead focus on it's consistency with itself rather than the other games. Kind of my philosophy on explaining the Zelda timeline or the inconsistencies between Binding Blade and Blazing Sword.

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10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ah yes, 2000 years, an amount of time exceeding any distance between prior legendary heroes (Anri, Heim, Athos, Altina etc.) and the present day by at the least twofold.

2000 years IRL is also sufficient for climates and geography to change to a degree, but barring a cataclysmic climatic event, there is absolutely no way Archanea could have changed that much in that timeframe. Though FE is fantasy and not real, therefore when something doesn't seem realistic, you can fall back on:

Ooh-ooooh It's magic- you know! Ne-ver be-lieve it's not so! It's magic- you know!

...Or they could have invented Not-The-Ending-Winter as a cataclysmic event that turns Macedon into a litter box and such, that be magical, but with a realistic plausibility rooted in things like volcanic/meteoric winters and whatnot.

I'd argue the Schism was responsible for the rapid geographical reshaping.

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On 7/3/2018 at 8:03 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ah yes, 2000 years, an amount of time exceeding any distance between prior legendary heroes (Anri, Heim, Athos, Altina etc.) and the present day by at the least twofold.

2000 years IRL is also sufficient for climates and geography to change to a degree, but barring a cataclysmic climatic event, there is absolutely no way Archanea could have changed that much in that timeframe. Though FE is fantasy and not real, therefore when something doesn't seem realistic, you can fall back on:

Ooh-ooooh It's magic- you know! Ne-ver be-lieve it's not so! It's magic- you know!

...Or they could have invented Not-The-Ending-Winter as a cataclysmic event that turns Macedon into a litter box and such, that be magical, but with a realistic plausibility rooted in things like volcanic/meteoric winters and whatnot.

My headcanon is Grima's rampage that the first Exalt stopped is the cataclysm that changed everything. 

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On 9-7-2018 at 11:07 PM, SerCaladran said:

My headcanon is Grima's rampage that the first Exalt stopped is the cataclysm that changed everything. 

That's my theory too. Plegia's probably such a wasteland because Grima really went to town on those regions in particular. 

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