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DehNutCase

A relaxed Conquest playthrough (With Screenshots!)

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Chapter 19:

Pre-map Planning:

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Tactically speaking, the map is about as difficult as Chapter 5, which was a prologue map. The map is just divide and conquer into fighting retreats. If you're having issues, the problem isn't Fire Emblem fundamentals. It's either a resource issue or because you're lacking in the one thing the map tests. Consistency. If your gameplan doesn't involve consistency the fact that the map is just two types of enemies copy pasted like 40 times is going to mean a lot of resets.

The map has basically 2 types of enemies, slow, bulky dudes and fast, slightly less bulky dudes, all of whom are walking walls of stats.

If only there was a weapon type that focused on consistency over things like raw power. (*Cough* Bronze Weapons *Cough* ) Yeah if you actually like Bronze Weapons this map is a joke. If you don't then you'll have to rely on the 'natural' +10 dodge weapons like Siegfried, Brynhildr, dragon/beaststones, or just being a Wolfssegner or Sorcerer* defensively and then just doing the whole fighting retreat thing over a larger portion of the map, since you need more combat rounds to KO.

*The Wolfssegner uses a stone for +10 dodge and have another +10 from their bases. The Sorcerer gets +5 dodge from their bases. The Spearmaster has +10 dodge if you somehow managed to get one in Conquest, and the Master Ninja has +5 dodge, which is more to fix Kaze's low Luck than anything else. (Minor note about Master Ninja, Shurikens get +1 Atk per weapon rank, and Master Ninja caps at S-rank, this means its Strength cap is better than it looks.)

 

The illusion thing doesn't really matter, except to double check that you know how to handle mixed-phase teams.

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Every unit on the map has Beastbane, I believe, but note that Beastbane isn't a full triple MT on their weapon, I think it's around 2x instead, which basically doesn't do anything. Your squishy units are still OHKOd, and your bulky units remain in the 2HKO range, even if they're on a horse.

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Note the low MT on the Beastone, but also the +10 Dodge. This means Beastbane isn't really a big problem.

All stones, including Dragonstones, have +10 dodge, and the Nine-tails class has an additional +10 dodge in its bases. So does Wolfssegner, so Keaton is really hard to crit, having basically an extra 40 Luck compared to everyone else.

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Not everyone has Beaststone, of course, we have 9 MT Beastrunes too.

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And 12 MT Beaststone+. It still shouldn't come close to putting your cavalry into 1HKO range, and being 2HKOd is par for the course.

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The real problem with these guys is their sky high hit, avoid, and dodge, along with just enough crit to be scary. Tactics that rely on dodge tanking doesn't work, tactics that rely on shaky hit rates don't work, tactics that rely on criticals don't work. And this is too early in Lunatic for offensive skills to be expected.

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Also note how these guys have different base stats. It's not their weapons doing this (although their weapons push the difference even higher), there're just two types of Nine-Tails on this map.

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The foxes occasionally have Life and Death, but honestly that just makes it easier to kill them---which is great if you have 2nd stringers that you need to level up. Pass is a bigger issue but it mostly just means you have to do a fighting retreat rather than just holding the line somewhere.

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The boss and his mooks have exactly the right amount of stats to be annoying. (It's pretty hard to get to the point where you're 4HKOd to his team, at least on Lunatic, meaning you can't afford to take a player phase combat and then two enemy phase combats unless you use a Physic or something, and Physics are expensive as hell.)

Mostly it just means that you should clear out the rest of the map and just do a fighting retreat until all his minions are gone, and then kill him on player phase.

 

The map is pretty straightforward, and I use pretty much the exact same strategy as on Chapter 5. I pick a side and clear it so I have room to do fighting retreats, and then I kill off every single wave by letting the mooks kill themselves on me while I retreat.

I happened to have two Swordmasters in Jakob and Odin so I picked the one that needed more exp (Odin), and pumped him full of enough stats to Vantage sweep the wave just above our starting location. I mess up on the combat math because for some reason the game doesn't bother putting trees in forests, so I was 1 damage off from a OHKO and got a reset to forge his weapon up to +4.

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I wanted to bench both Xander and Selena because they were a tad over-leveled, but Selena's huge, non-cavalry bulk and flying mobility is just too good to pass up on this map---Beruka gets doubled by the boss despite how speed blessed she is, so she couldn't quite do Selena's job. So I drop Elise instead of Selena, since it's difficult to keep a bunch of OHKOd units alive against Pass. (I can do it, obviously, since I'm bringing Nyx, Felicia, and Azura, but all three of them provide better support than Elise for this particular map.)

My Castle Stuff:

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Flora joined us after one of my castle visits. She has fairly decent bases and weapon ranks, with enough skill to consistently debuff just about everything and enough Res to be a mage-killer, but aside from the fact that she only needs 2 Arms Scrolls to hit S-rank staves you usually don't need her for much. If I ever need a debuffer I'll bring her in, and she might have some use in the endgame for staff abuse, but mostly she's just here to let you swap Jakob and Felicia out of their starting classes without causing a team composition problem.

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Fairly decent rolls on the lottery and food court this time---note the +2 Str food, I was hoping Odin would get it so I could have a easier time Vantage sweeping with him. Saucy is +1 Mag for Nohrian units, so my offenses are about as good as you can reasonably expect. (You can luck into something like +2 Str, +2 Mag, +1 Skill, but I don't care enough to reroll food buffs yet---maybe in the endgame once I need the stats for something specific.)

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Note the lack of Odin on this list. Would've saved me a reset and 8k in cash flow.

 

Resource Distribution:

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The second picture was after my reset.

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Again, the second picture was after my reset.

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I hate the fact that the square above Odin was a forest tile. Yes, you can look at the bottom screen map, and realize that apparently half the god damn map is forests, but it doesn't look that way at all on the top screen.

Reset Counter: 16

I also could've had Odin chug a tonic (or just rerolled the food court), but it's not like I'm having cash flow problems, and Iron is one of the better forges for Odin anyway, so he might as well use his more or less endgame weapon now rather than waiting some more maps for it.

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I turn Charlotte into Hero, which, because it's Charlotte, basically makes her a Swordmaster except without the free Avoid and Crit.

She's -1.5 Str, -2.5 Spd, but +3 Skill and exactly average when it comes to her Luck, meaning she's a bit screwed offensively. I'd rather her be a bit Skill light (since the Skill into hit % exchange rate is pretty shit), but Str and Spd heavy than the other way around, but eh. As long as she doesn't fall too far behind her offenses will be great anyway.

Very much a second stringer, though, since I'm not focusing my resources on her.

The Map:

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First turn ends like this, Camilla's holding her Bronze Sword, Odin's holding his +4 Iron, and everyone around the currently invulnerable fox is holding bronze weapons. (Crit rates are fairly high so you need to be a lucky as hell person in a pair-up or a reasonably lucky person with a bronze weapon to see 0% crit rates.)

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Azura got this level during setup, I'm pretty sure half the mooks on this map still OHKO her.

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Even if we take this into account. (It's -2 physical damage from enemies in 2 range, which is extremely hard to use without getting Azura killed, so you might as well consider it a +2 Def skill with very occasional upside.)

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The Beaststone using foxes would avoid the OHKO, but Odin isn't in range to be hit by those.

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It has speed so it's fine.

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Also got the 5000g. This is a rout map and all the items are drops, so I'll just mention them as they drop.

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Odin's almost 4 Speed above his averages, and only a little below his average in Str and Mag, so I'm really happy. 28 Speed is enough for the endgame, but his other classes aren't nearly as fast as Samurai so I want him with as much Speed as possible before switching out.

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Nyx has -5 internal levels from her very early promotion, so she and Charlotte are the best people to take the level 20 unpromoted mook exp.

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Mag and Speed are all I care about, and she even got a bit of hp. (Which doesn't really matter, since most things that touch her kill her.)

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Doop.

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I danced Felicia for healing.

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End of turn 2. Apparently the right side mooks don't do the illusion thing, so you should probably clear them first if you wanted space for a fighting retreat. (I went up first because all the mooks in the wave just above our start location had Life and Death, meaning they were easy to kill and dangerous if left alone.)

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Yeah, high avoid doesn't mean jack to forged Bronzes.

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Technically she's level 5 when it comes to exp, by the way. Her standout stats start mattering less and less as the endgame progresses, but her -5 internal levels is just enough to get the relevant level 15 skills in a good time if you know what you need.

(Shuriken Breaker, Tome Breaker, and Axe Breaker are my three go-to Breakers, because all 3 tend to walk around with a ton of Crit, and, in the case of Sorcerers and Berserkers, a ton of Atk, so you'd prefer to dodge tank if at all possible. Shuriken Breaker is just to make Inevitable End less of a hassle---you don't really need it, it's just quality of life. Same thing for Trample, just quality of life.)

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I lunge the pair-up into a forest because I'm retarded. (And also because I had no idea the tile Camilla was on was a forest, god I hate the top screen map on this level.)

Mostly it was to test when Savage Blow procs, though. (It procs before the Lunge, not after.)

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I have Leo smack this mook to setup Heartseeker on the other one.

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Exp fishing.

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Just because Jakob's underleveled doesn't mean you should fuck with him. (You know the Vantage sweep thing Odin did Turn 1? That's Jakob from Chapter 10 to like Chapter 20 if you cared about doing that. I don't do that because I'd rather distribute my exp more evenly, not because he can't carry my ass.)

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Doop.

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Mag, Speed, and Luck are the stats Felicia primarily cares about, so this is good for her. (Skill doesn't matter much for her because she uses Breakers a bunch.)

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Baiting some mooks. (These guys started aggro'd, but you shouldn't have trouble finishing the right side of the map before they come in.)

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Shaky hit rates, but she was setting up Heartseeker rather than expecting to do damage anyway. (Both KO attempts miss.)

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Note the positive crit rates despite how much of a lucky bastard Odin is.

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Note the less than 100% Accuracy despite Heartseeker. God damn there are a lot of forests on this map.

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It has speed, but her stats are fairly far behind now.

She's -.9 hp, -2.95 Str, +1.05 Mag, -2.15 Skill, -2.5 Speed, +.2 Luck, +1.7 Def, +.05 Res. The one extra Mag and 1.7 extra Def does not even come close to making up for missing almost 3 points in Str, Skill, and Speed. Those three stats are basically right on top of her un-statbooster'd averages.

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Strength +2 is great, though. Trample isn't really needed, so I'll probably swap into Hero for Axe Breaker once she gets Savage Blow. Selena has a full pair of boots so the team's mobility won't be affected that much.

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Camilla falls off if you don't properly prepare her for the endgame*, but she's still like the 2nd or 3rd best unit in Conquest. (Jakob's skillpool isn't nearly as nice as Felicia's, but he starts carrying earlier and harder than Camilla if you prep him for that job.)

*Which is easily fixed by either preparing for the endgame or just doing a child map to get the skills you need.

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Just getting weapon exp + preparing Inspiration before I danced Camilla for the finish.

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This is when I find out the illusions are 1 turn on, 1 turn off.

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So I wait a turn.

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Corrin gets a lot of exp from Guard Stance because she's so good as a pair-up bot. Great level from it, too.

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Another one to the pile. (I have 2, I believe. Leo's the logical place to put them but he didn't need them yet.)

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Fighting and retreating.

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I didn't completely trust the 1 turn on, 1 turn off thing yet, hence why I position as if they can attack every turn.

The AI also splits up on this turn, for whatever reason.

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So I gank this half on player phase.

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Pretty sure she has more stats than my Selena at this point, if they were in the same class. And she's technically lower leveled. Still just Camilla doing Camilla things, though.

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To be honest, I shouldn't be feeding Selena kills---she's really overleveled.

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The 58% connects.

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Again, still not trusting the 1 turn on, 1 turn off things yet. I have plenty of room to retreat, though, not that I need it since it's trivial to kill 3 mooks in one player phase.

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This is just about where I want to be to pull the wave after this one, anyway.

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So many bloody forests on this map. This move is more about setting up Heartseeker than actually doing damage, though.

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Odin carries Heartseeker with him, so he doesn't need setup.

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No speed, but at least it has Str. (I'd like it more if it's Str and Mag, if he couldn't get Speed, though. He probably won't need Mag for the endgame, but there's a reasonable chance of going Sorcerer for Bow Breaker.)

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Gotta love Bronze Weapons. Pity about the damage.

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Doop.

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So, so blessed.

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He's free to swap out of Swordmaster now. I'd prefer to keep him Swordmaster as long as I can to milk the extra speed growths, but I don't feel like there's enough exp to go around, so I'm planning to get him Life and Death and before turning him Paladin as soon as possible.

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He can use the Sunrise Katana and Kodachi now, which do matter for him for dodge tanking and Vantage sweeping.

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*Fake Celebration Noises* She got this while setting up for the next wave.

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Mooks didn't pull this turn.

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The waves being mixed doesn't really matter since you can just retreat and retreat again until you killed enough on enemy phase. My only issue is that Selena doesn't really care about getting combat exp at this point, but Beruka doesn't quite have the speed to manage EP as well as she could.

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Doop.

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In the worst case you can just run around the map forever at this point, since the boss doesn't reach far enough to aggro while you do that.

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Doop.

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Selena's fine alone, so I position like this to exploit the fact the wave split itself up.

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Not enough mooks can reach Corrin to threaten her, so I have her take the combat exp.

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Map's pretty much cleaned up now, so all that's left is the boss.

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This is one of the level 20 mooks, hence why the Levin's so accurate.

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Trade swap out of Levin and then smacked a mook with Charlotte.

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Kind of interesting how Charlotte's safe. I think it's because the mook that's left is a level 20, meaning not enough move to properly cross the river.

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Doop.

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I noticed this during the map, and guessed that it makes a bridge. (I didn't hit it till now because I didn't want to make a bridge for all the foxes.)

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Fast forward a few turns and we have this, prepared to fight and retreat until the sun goes down.

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Boss didn't bite with just one target, so I add Selena into the mix.

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Kaden has a healing skill, so killing the mooks is the only thing that matters on EP. I can run around the map forever, ordinarily speaking, but one tiny fact screws me.

Azura has 5 move, and I didn't give her a movement pair-up. In retrospect I should've had her further back, or at least un-paired. Charlotte is 2HKO just like most other units on my team, so swapping to her side doesn't help.

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I mean, the level is actually pretty consistent with her level ups this playthrough.

...

So, so screwed.

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The skill's nice to have, but rarely vital unless you're doing shenanigans. Axe rank is cool, but again, not vital since I use Bronze Weapons a lot. Will be nice for Hero, though, since it allows her to proc Sol without using a raider axe.

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Healing with a Festal since Azura's slow as molasses.

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Really wish I split Azura and Charlotte up. But still just fighting and retreating.

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Azura's going to be in range of 2 mooks pretty much no matter what, so I just kill Kaden.

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I don't like using Keaton, but he's actually really good even in his base, 1-range foot-locked class. Think of him if you ever need to tank people with a bunch of crit, since he has +40 Luck basically for free.

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God damn Azura and her 5 move---she only moves 3 squares since just about everywhere is forest. Note how both Jakob and Felicia is around to provide their minus damage aura.

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If the square she was on wasn't a forest, Charlotte was like 90% dead.

Moral Reset Counter: 7.5

Should've been less stupid about Azura's positioning.

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Cleanup's trivial, though, since most of my team has great hit rates.

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Doop.

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At least Beruka's getting bad levels after a whole string of fantastic levels, unlike Selena.

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Good skill, but it's mostly people like Felicia and Gunter who can leverage it the best, since they can get it without heavy exp investment. If you invested that much exp into a unit you probably want them to do actual combat. (Like, take last turn for example, sure, I'd use it to save Charlotte if needed, but I'd much rather use Beruka's turn to actually kill the boss---Charlotte would've been under threat this turn instead if I didn't kill Kaden back then.)

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Pretty easy to make a fort out of people who can't be ORKOd if the center of that fort gives -2 damage taken to all units and another -2 to males.

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Doop.

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Bulk is a Swordmaster's biggest issue, so I don't mind Corrin not getting offenses in exchange for maximum physical bulk. Although it's still a sub-par level.

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Mostly you use this when baiting with the dragonstone. (Or slowly whittling down some armors, I guess.)

It's a lot better on Lunatic since ORKOs are way harder, meaning you want stuff that helps 2RKOs, and Draconic Hex is great at that.

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Doop.

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Fairly easy map, due to my unit composition & not caring about turn-count. The reset & moral reset were just fuck ups rather than RNG or bad strategy, and I'm more or less fine with that.

 

No epilogue this time since literally nobody got a support level.

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7 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

GS4Ld8u.png  RUW8jyL.png

It has speed, but her stats are fairly far behind now.

She's -.9 hp, -2.95 Str, +1.05 Mag, -2.15 Skill, -2.5 Speed, +.2 Luck, +1.7 Def, +.05 Res. The one extra Mag and 1.7 extra Def does not even come close to making up for missing almost 3 points in Str, Skill, and Speed. Those three stats are basically right on top of her un-statbooster'd averages.

Jeez, I'm getting flashbacks of my Selena from when I last finished Conquest.

Least yours has higher strength way before the endgame.

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Mind, Bow Knight is a fast as hell class, so usually she can deal with it even if she's a bit stat screwed, thanks to her bases + Bows being hilarious in Conquest. But it does mean she ends up more like a Niles than a front-line unit, and it's pretty easy to get a Niles. (If this was a more serious run I'd have dropped her by now, because she wouldn't have her stat boosters propping her up, but she does.)

 

In other news, Reset Counter: 17. I forgot to class change Jakob into Master of Arms before the map started, and he needs a partner seal to do that so I couldn't just convoy him during the map, so I reset for it.

And then I crashed, twice.

Reset Counter: 19.

Gonna chill for a day or so until I'm calm enough to just wait 10 seconds every time I press the screenshot button. (I think it's a memory issue, so complicated maps like the boat map and Fuga's are more likely to cause crashes. Worst comes to worst I'll just drop the difficulty to casual and save once a turn---I'll still reset if I lose a unit or whatever, but this way I don't have to replay the whole map just because of a crash.)

Edited by DehNutCase

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Selena actually does decent as a Kinshi if you're willing to baby her through the early levels.

Though it's on Hard, I'm finding using all Hoshidan classes to be pretty easy compared to normal. Doubling thresholds are easier to meet and there's enough damage to one-round most everything. My only regret so far is not capturing Kumagera so my only physical tanks are Haitaka and Xander.

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The problem with Kinshi is that you need a critical mass of them to handle enemy Kinshi waves (you need to kill all of them or you're losing someone), whereas a single Bow Knight can take care of everything since Bow Knight Selena has enough Def to just ignore Falcon Knights. (Bow Knight Camilla or Beruka does the same thing, but Niles etc. can't since they're mage killers rather than front-liners.)

The Sky Knight line's skills are very good for Selena (Darting Blow fixes her speed issues if she was screwed, Camaraderie makes her passive self-healing even better, and Air Superiority makes her more than a little ridiculous vs. fliers once you swap her back to a non-flying class), but Selena's class options are strong enough that you'll get enough good skills to fill out her skillslots pretty much no matter what, so I usually re-class her based on the team's needs, and later in the game, rather than ASAP just to fill her slots.

Basically, Sky Knight Selena is one of those things I want but I don't need, so it ends up being cut to save on resources. Kind of like how I don't buy tonics or effective damage all that much---they're stuff you want to have to make maps easier, but if you can get by without using them you end up with a bit more resources.

 

In other news, Reset Counter: 20. This crash wasn't even me clicking too fast this time, and the whole theme of Fuga's map is that it's hard to play it the exact same way every time (minor differences in what you kill and how you handle the winds end up snowballing the map into something completely different the next attempt), so I guess I'm dropping down to casual to take screenshots.

I'll just create a 2nd save for that, and do my main run on the original save file first.

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Oh the irony in sky knight Selena being among one of her best class options. Life works in strange ways doesn't it. I usually just make her a great lord because she's going to be good unit dammit regardless if I have to waste a DLC class on her.

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Mind, I'm doing a gimmick run. Every unit I'm using on my Conquest team is in a Hoshidan class. More speed than you can shake a stick at and plenty of strength, but nearly everyone is a paper tiger.

For a unit breakdown, have a list:

Basara Corrin, Azura, Sniper Niles, Master Ninja Xander, Swordmaster Odin, Master of Arms Leo, Kinshi Knight Selena, Mechanist Camilla, Spear Master Haitaka, Onmyoji Jakob, Merchant Midori, Falcon Knight Elise, Master Ninja Laslow and Mechanist Shura.

My highest natural defense going into Chapter 17 is Xander at 20; my average is 14. I don't care about resistance since Jakob has Tomebreaker and Elise and Shura are flush with it.

As I said, I'm finding the mid game to be significantly easier than normal but I'm wondering if I'll be able to hit benchmarks for the end.

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Anyway, Reset Counter: 21. I left Azura in range of like 3 mooks, because that's what you do with Azura, right? (Wasn't paying attention.)

The map was a tad harder than expected because I keep forgetting to remember about Freeze staffs (that's not what killed Azura, I just walked her into 3 mooks to dance Beruka because I'm retarded), and I think Leo got more speed level ups than Selena at this point.

 

Will probably be a day or two before I post since I need to go back to the old save and grab screenshots, and there's like a 99% chance that my exp distribution will be different on that run because of the whole wind thing.

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Chapter 20:

FHz4Yg2.png  JnXo7NJ.png

I actually like this chapter a lot, especially since it comes right after Chapter 19. Where Chapter 19 tests your consistency, the ability to create a plan that doesn't rely on RNG, this chapter primarily tests your ability to deal with inconsistency, both advantages and disadvantages that pop up semi-randomly over the course of the map itself. Unfortunately, this also means that you can't really use a guide for it unless the guide writer is extremely meticulous. (The winds are in a set pattern, so you can create a plan that gives enough leeway in terms of which units die when that you can have people follow a guide for it, but it'll be hard to find someone willing to go through all that effort.)

That said, I dislike the way the wind mechanic is introduced (although I like what it does), because it's another one of those things you have to actually play the map to understand. Sure, it says your unit will land in the nearest safe square, but how does it behave if that square was blocked? Do you fly over the unit blocking and end up even further away, or does it stop short and not travel the 5 squares? This is stuff you'd have to test on the map itself, and that kind of design... irk me. Since preparing your inventories, team composition, etc. before the map is a pretty important part of Fire Emblem, and you can't do that properly with imperfect information.

Moreover, there's also stuff like how the dragon vein winds work---those affect all units except the unit calling the wind itself. It's very clever design, but again, I wish they introduced it better.

 

That said, worst comes to worst you can probably just have Camilla solo everything in a Corrin pair-up. Her growths are so good that it's pretty reasonable for her to be taking ~5 damage while ORKOing everything back. (That's what mine did in the run I didn't screenshot---she ended up blown up to the boss platform because I wasn't paying attention to freeze staffs, and then she killed every 2-range mook that tried to hit her until the winds blew her back down. She didn't end up soloing everything, but that accident did speed things up a bit by triggering the last reinforcement wave early and thinning out some boss platform mooks.)

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The mooks on the map should be pretty easy to deal with for anyone who got this far. Their crit rates are low, their accuracy middling, and their Avo pretty terrible. They aren't complete jokes, but you really shouldn't have problems dealing with the mooks themselves even with debuffs on you.

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They do tend to carry lots of debuffs, though.

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Honestly even base level Xander should be able to take care of all the physical mooks on this map. (Barring Fuga himself.)

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Spears are pretty cool design, but I wish they got to double. I do see the issue with making bows a bit redundant, but we've been using shit like Radiant Dawn forged hand-axes for ages.

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Swordcatchers have pretty low MT unforged, so honestly I don't think Xander dies to this entire pack even considering the -Def and effective damage.

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...If you ignore this guy, anyway. There's a fair amount of random magical damage on the map, so do double check weapons before you start working on a pack of mooks.

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The Kinshi Knights are pretty annoying, but the map isn't over-saturated with them or anything, so fliers are very high picks on this map.

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There's a bunch of stationary priestesses with stuff like Freeze, Silence, Enfeeble, a 1-2 range Bow, and Wane Festal (basically just Physic). They mostly don't matter. Just remember to separate your units if you're in range of a Freeze and you can pair up afterwards to go where you need to.

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Hexing Rod asshole. We're still early enough in the game that he doesn't have Staff Savant yet, so if you're really worried about him just wait out the 3 uses. (There'll be 3 Falcon Knights surrounding him after turn 1, which looks like a problem, but just wait until a downwind stream catches them and proc a dragon vein to force them down, letting you pull them without getting Hex'd.)

It's even why they started above him turn 1, since the map designers didn't want you to just do that immediately.

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All 3 have Counter, but the other 2 have regular tomes rather than Calamity Gate. Again, pretty easy to use the winds to pull them without being bothered by random crap.

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The 3 stooges that end up around Hayato have Axe-breaker, which is pretty annoying for Wyverns, but they also do 0 damage to Wyverns, so yeah.

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S-rank in a weapon basically turns Dual Weapons into Breakers. S-rank weapon triangle is 20% hit, 2 damage, so it ends up being 40% hit, 4 damage if you're advantaged while holding a Dual. (S-rank classes are pretty amazing in Conquest, if we ignore the fact that they're all foot-locked losers.)

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Front side has a regular Steel weapon. Even with a pair-up their stats shouldn't cause any issues.

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Here's a freeze staff, pretty annoying if you forgot about her.

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There's also a pair of Lunge priestesses on the boss platform, but they use regular bows rather than 1-2 range bows, so just have someone counter-kill them and it's no problem. (It's why Camilla didn't get into trouble with Lunge after she was blown up here in my 'real' run---she just counter-killed their asses on EP, meaning no Lunge.)

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Neat skills, but even with the debuffs his stats shouldn't be high enough to cause problems, especially considering that he really likes using the Silver Katti to ruin his Strength and Skill.

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I don't use Elise because she's more useful in set piece battles where positioning is simple, and that does not describe chapter 20. If she was level'd she'd be quite worth bringing as another mobile offensive unit, but she's not. (I would've cut Shura for her---it's cheaper on resources to get Felicia or Nyx to level 15 Adventurer than him or Niles, so he's basically just a placeholder.)

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My main plan was to divide the team into two halves, exactly as you see here, with the left half going left and the right half going right---the enemy stats and density is low enough that you don't really need to keep your whole team together. And it's easier to deal with winds if you can manage to have your entire group ride one wind, which a 7-8 unit group easily allows, thanks to pair-ups.

Then I'll just carefully bait on EP and clean up on player phase until the map's done. There's 3 reinforcement waves, but they're no trouble as long as you can handle winds properly.

My Castle Stuff:

lMGOLdD.png  5PtVxLG.png

The lottery got upgraded to level 3 at this point, so silvers are technically low-rolls now. You'll still see bronzes, but silvers and golds should be happening now. The random crap you find on the ground are also nearly Silver weapon tier at this point, albeit with penalties. I also get a hilarious high-roll on my Food Court---which is level 3 now, meaning the whole team gets the bonus.

UqC1KCQ.png

We do have Azura, Jakob, and Odin in Hoshido classes, so they don't get the bonus, but the free Def & Res tonics make the enemy mook stats even more trivial than they already were.

 

Resource Distribution:

ek0FIKL.png  6avyLi0.png

I reset for this after realizing I didn't change Jakob into Master of Arms. (It wouldn't have affected the map---would've made it harder, actually, since Jakob was consistently ORKOing as Swordmaster, but lost enough speed to miss doubles as MoA---but I don't mind resetting for small stuff like this + I didn't need to take the map all that seriously.)

Reset Counter: 21

This is the Jakob reset, a stupid Azura death (walked her into the 3 Falcons next to Hayato), and 2 crashes, which is what made me decide to do the map without screenshots first, and then use an older save, drop it down to casual, and get screenshots while saving every turn.

bxvZhRD.png

did do this before the reset, though. Jakob has a much stronger sword arm (thanks to Swordfaire) for throwing the Kodachi, and his Tome-breaker means he's a better dodge tank than Odin, hence the Sunrise Katana.

 

The Map:

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Azura's on the left team, but her dance gives Xander enough speed to double the Spear mook, hence why I dance him turn 1.

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Left side has Camilla baiting a mage and right side has Xander baiting the spear mooks. (Note how the screenshots are actually out of order, I went right first.)

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The dot near the starting area is Selena, who's in range to air-lift Azura to the left side.

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Camilla.jpg

She got this level counter-killing the mage. If you imagine Odin, except 10 levels ahead the entire game, and you'd get Camilla. (Odin can either tank his stats to get Camilla's -5 internal levels for skill access timings, or he can satisfy himself with 'only' being 5 levels behind on stats forever.)

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I moved Camilla for the 2HKO from Jakob (in Swordmaster he was doubling naturally, but MoA takes more after the spear mook side than the Samurai side), and Odin smacks a mook. Note how Jakob is out damaging a +4 Iron with a +2 Bronze, though---he's pretty hilarious thanks to his skill access timings, although he's held down by his mediocre class pool. Using Corrin to fix class access issues is basically the nuclear option.

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Left side ends like this---I had a brainfart and didn't realize Azura would get blown to the next platform. Which completely derailed things from my un-screenshotted run, since I didn't use a dragon vein this early.

Also note how Selena's in range of the priestess. It's a silence, and they'll gladly waste it on someone with like 9 Mag as long as they technically can use magic. I mostly use the fire tome for 1-2 range counters (which is more for Shield Gauge than damage---most of Selena's damage would come from Savage Blow if she's doing tome stuff), and on a map like this it'd mean trying to counter Kinshi Knights as a flier, which is probably even dumber than it sounds.

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Doop.

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Charlotte is basically a Swordmaster in all but name, honestly. Pity she doesn't actually have Samurai or else you could do janky stuff like Vantage X-Breaker Great Club Beserker with like 80% crit, which sounds terrible---since you're dead if you don't crit---until you remember she can also slap Awakening on top of that for 100% crit.

If you're going down to Vantage range anyway you might as well make use of it, ha ha. The Breaker and Awakening would give her 100% hit rates.

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Spearmasters have 10 dodge for free, so I have Beruka smack him around a bit for combat exp.

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End of turn 2. I somehow managed to derail my entire plan (from my un-screenshotted version), in two turns. Yeah this map is really hard to do 'by the book' since tiny changes in positioning basically change the entire run.

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Oh well. Azura's trapped by herself but it's an easy fix, so I just smack this mook for exp first. (Hand Axes have surprisingly decent accuracy, considering they're a 1-2 range axe and all.)

mG3G8FR.png  etlf6Cj.png

Brown\Orange wind goes down, White\Yellow wind goes up. So I have Leo bring Azura down---along with a bunch of mooks, which is what really changes the run.

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Normally I would've been baiting the mage mooks with Camilla at this point, but I pushed a flier down so I had Camilla bait the flier instead.

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I, uh, I don't actually know how this screenshot happened. It looks like it should've been from an enemy phase combat, but Camilla isn't in the right position. Oh well. Anyway, like I've said before, D-ranks don't really matter for me, seeing how I like Bronze Bows a lot. (Other weapons at least have the excuse of proccing offensive specials like Sol, Luna, and such, but Bows don't exactly need more MT to function, and using Sol on a 2-range weapon is a tad iffy, especially considering you need to swap out of bows to grab it.)

9PZacwL.png

Whatever. Anyway, bunch of mooks flew down since I aggro'd a flier or something, so I start working on them. (Normally I'd be considering back off with a fighting retreat, but this is just a screenshot run so I don't mind playing 'messy.')

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So blessed. Jakob relies on his skills to function, so if he ever has anything even approaching normal stats he turns into a complete monster.

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Seal Strength matters more than Seal Magic, but it's still pretty iffy as a skill. I can sort of see myself using it to counteract Shuriken debuffs (since you debuff them back), but every Ninja still gets a full damage hit off first.

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Doop. Yes, that's Camilla in Attack Stance doing the same damage as Shura, and remember Shura's getting Rose's Thorns. Pretty much why I don't really like killers that much, it's just so easy to forge your weapons to the point where they 2HKO. If you get them earlier with bp/vp they're quite good, though, at least until enemy stats get a bit higher.

I think you can buy more copies from visiting other castles, so you can keep them relevant for the entire game, but I'm only using castle visits for cooking & forging resources. (Although I might use them for support levels later if I end up being too lazy to just grind them up normally.)

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Two mooks left, and I need Camilla in place to block the infantry mook that's hard to see in this shot, so I'm going to be rolling some shaky hit rates.

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Shura didn't crit, so the girl lived with 1 hp. (Selena managed the hit through Axe-breaker.) Highwayman procs for -3 Atk, -3 Speed, though, which makes surviving the EP easier.

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This would be a moral reset if I was doing a regular run.

Azura 100% lives here because the enemy goes for the highest damage combat first, which means the full hp Falcon hits Shura, using the Attack Stance of the low hp one, but the low hp one can't get attack stance on anyone other than Selena, who takes like 0 damage, meaning Highwayman debuffs makes it so not even Shura would die despite taking 2 combats.

Only risk was Azura taking 2 combats, but between her Voice of Peace and Gentilhomme the full hp mook preferred to smack Shura instead, since he doesn't counter. That said, it's still a moral reset normally since it relies on AI Manipulation, which I consider something of an 'advanced' skill, and not something you'd learn playing normally. You'd have to deliberately do stupid looking stuff to figure out what the AI does in every situation.

A lot of endgame maps get easier if you understand how to manipulate the AI, though. My usual way of dealing with Inevitable End ninjas is positioning so that 3 of my dudes get hit once each, despite pulling the same pack, rather than 1 guy getting hit 3 times. (You do this by making it so that your lowest def unit can only be hit by 1 unit, the 2nd lowest by 2, and the bulkiest by 3, and the AI prefers to do the most damaging combats first, so they block each other from tag-teaming your bulky guy.) If you only get smacked once each Inevitable End does jack all.

...I suggest you play on Casual if you're planning to learn AI manipulation, incidentally. Being able to save mid chapter + have your units come back is pretty important.

 

Also note how I have a bunch of dudes clump'd up on the right side to deal with the reinforcement spears. No idea why I didn't take screenshots for that.

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Str, Spd, and Res are pretty much all I care about from Niles. We have tons of bulky Bow Knight options so he's just here for high mobility offenses + occasional mage killing.

He got this on EP, I think.

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Gotta love -20 Avoid on magic weapons. To let Niles attack I made Leo move into the newly created empty space and then walked Charlotte down to trade him from Xander. Even in Hero Charlotte's great for pair-ups, since she keeps the 3 Speed, which is the most important part, and her support based pair-up stats remain speed and strength.

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Fast Beruka is pretty nice to use.

As an aside, usually I consider Selena the real Camilla-lite, since she can replace Camilla (badly) as a Malig Knight, thanks to her Speed and bulk bases & growths, whereas using other people usually needs two people for that. A Beruka & Elise combo could do it, like I've mentioned before, with Beruka filling the physical half and Elise the magical half. Beruka can't do magic since she doesn't have the speed to double, letting Strong Riposte fix damage issues, and Elise can't do bulky mage since she's not bulky.

I treat Beruka more like a flying general, hence why I was choosing between Effie and Beruka way back then, wanting to take whoever high-rolled speed. (Both of them had the potential---Beruka had less shitty bases, but Effie had 50% personal growths.)

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Unbelievably, the Falcon knight is actually fast enough to avoid the double. I think it's because Camilla has -6 speed on her right now.

608Proe.png

The shot crit, so the mook died.

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It's pretty important to get the first wave of reinforcements cleared reasonably quickly, since Turn 6 has an all updraft wind sequence, and your don't want to have to deal with mooks while getting back down.

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The mook suicided onto Beruka, getting her this fairly typical Beruka level, in that it doesn't have speed but does have Str or Def.

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The low hp Falcon flew away before to heal, but wandered back down again at half hp for some reason, so I chuck a sword at her.

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No reason to rush since I'm quite comfortable dealing with the winds, so I bait the mages + Spearmaster with Camilla.

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Despite how good these levels look, Camilla isn't actually getting blessed. Almost 4 stats a level means even your ordinary levels look very good.

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Just picking up some random weapon exp before Camilla does Camilla things. I have no idea why I'm bothering since I wasn't going to use this save anyway. (I think I realize it too, since normally I wouldn't finish up with Camilla, who's effectively level 8 at this point---still getting a fair chunk of combat exp, but is right on the edge of Lunatic's hilarious exp falloff.)

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I do whatever for a bit, waiting for good winds.

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Camilla was blown upwards, but this fixes her positioning. (She could've just rode back, but that gets her smacked by the Hexing rod.)

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Note the pack of three that was blown down with Camilla, I rush her right to bait them.

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Apparently pulling that pack triggers another wave of reinforcements, so I start murdering them. The Jakob fight was a easy KO even without Savage Blow, but as you can see it's pretty trivial to get the trigger on units you care about.

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Doop.

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Jakob's averages are 3.45 in MoA (and most other classes), by the way, so he's getting a ton of above average levels. (It also shows just how much Selena relies on her bases and optimized growths, since she's 3.3 per level in most classes, and Jakob has 11 more levels to grow compared to her---11 because of the 'free' level between 20 and 21.)

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Life and Death is great to have, but it's a lot easier to use if you weren't foot-locked. He can go Paladin any time now to completely min-max his skillset for offenses now, though. He has +18 from L&D, Swordfaire, and Elbow Room if he's chucking swords at people on a normal tile, and he can use Vantage to murder people who think Life and Death makes his bulk worse.

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I didn't bring my team together until I finished off the last wave of reinforcements on the 'real' run, but eh. Also note the two pair'd up mooks flying our way. They're only an issue if you pulled more mooks than intended while using the winds, since it's just 4 mooks.

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The mooks are Falcon Knights and Spearmasters, so I send Camilla out to bait with a Bronze Sword.

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Note that the mook has trample, which would matter more if they also had an Atk stat. Or if 90% of my team wasn't mounted.

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Unbelievably, Jakob actually has less than 100% hit rates. A lot of this is because S-rank triangle disadvantage is pretty damn serious. He hits, though, so I dance him to chuck another sword.

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When the Attack Stance does 27 damage you don't actually need Mag to be a mage.

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Still just Camilla being Camilla. She also finally got some speed levels in Bow Knight this map. Bow Knight has 15% Speed Growths like all of Selena's classes (she's always at 60% Speed growths in her normal classes), so she was a bit overdue.

VXfWoYA.png

Pity the weapon triangle is based on the advantaged unit, so it's hard to properly leverage it on the player side, between mounted units tending to have lower weapon rank caps and the fact that we don't get maximum weapon ranks for free. It does make Captured units a bit better on Lunatic, though, since you can leverage the weapon triangle more to make up for the fact that captured units have the same stats as your enemies.

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Turn 12 is another all updraft thing. I guess the winds are on a 6 turn cycle?

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Anyway, I send Camilla in because she murders everyone and takes like 3 damage back.

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One turn later this happens. Note the Chest Key.

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Leo got Hex'd by accident, and here I decide to just get my Adventurers Hex'd, since they're not supposed to be taking enemy phase combats anyway.

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The winds were pretty annoying last turn, so I spend a turn twiddling my thumbs for everyone to get blown back up.

acxp0D3.png

Getting doubled could kill Jakob if one of the hits procs Luna, but he'll get enough Shield Gauge to block a hit from his 2 attacks & Hayato's 3 hits, meaning the 4th is blocked. (Jakob's seeing 0% hit rates right now because of Duelist's Blow---because obviously +infinite bulk is so much worse than +10 physical or +20 magical, right?)

IBY6bmD.png  vbr3tFX.png

Master of Arms has slightly shaky speed, so it's great that Jakob's still getting Speed levels.

L1oyZ5P.png  wxDRrwu.png

Jakob went for the Hayato solo because the winds were going to bring him back down, but in retrospect I shouldn't have bothered since the Physic healing tops Hayato back up anyway.

Pwqm0nl.png

This guy took like 6 turns to walk back down after one of my dragon veins blew him onto the boss platform, so now he's blocking the path. Thus getting Camilla'd.

pa7o0e4.png  l6CY2wx.png

Yeah, definitely looks like a 6 turn cycle. I use this updraft to gank Hayato.

A crash happens while I work on Hayato, thank god this is the screenshot grabbing casual run, so I only needed to replay like 4 moves.

(Screenshotting runs won't add to the reset counter, which should keep the reset counter bloat down a bit. I think like 60-80% of my resets are crashes.)

ih3j2a2.png  awgCQKl.png

Anyway, I grab the dragonstone+ first thing. I like it a lot, since it buffs your bulk even more and you don't lose your attack stats if you don't counter. Skill has a terrible hit % exchange rate anyway, and you should be smacking people with Strength when using swords---which also have great natural hit rates---so Dragonstone+ is a huge upgrade. It has 25 MT on top of a bunch of bulk.

Pity you get it so late. (I think there's one in bp/vp, but I don't have enough points to get that one---I'm only around ~450 bp, ~850 vp.)

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Anyway, Hayato's half protected by that mage mook, so I use Niles in this spot since he has the magical bulk to ignore mages.

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Then I chuck a pair of swords at Hayato to deal with his Vantage + Luna combo.

bZnMKSH.png  mmFKmOK.png

Azura got this while singing for Jakob. Absolutely no idea why her offenses are so good---and why her bulk is so paper.

WAqYKSY.png  4edPlMM.png

Everyone goes back down, which nicely prepares us to grab the two chests that are left.

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Knowing how to ride the wind makes this map pretty easy to navigate, especially if you have some flying mobility to fix slight mistakes.

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I forgot how Felicia got separated, but she hangs out with Corrin & Camilla. (Corrin's baiting a freeze staff use.)

HMtmdjP.png

Doop. Really nice that Jakob managed to get enough speed procs to double people with his Raider Katana. (Which is +4 effective speed, since it's a Katana, so you have very good speedy sword options between Practice, Raider, and Laslow's.)

oPYuGBQ.png  Hp0nRcl.png

Doop.

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-20 avoid on magical weapons hurts a lot more than you'd think.

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Eh, it's Speed and bulk, I'll take it. Definitely low-rolling her offenses, though.

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Doop.

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Like I said, basically pre-promoted Niles. He's always good for filler, but I tend to run Nyx and Niles most of the time, so it's usually optimal for me to just kill him for boots. (Which I never end up using because it's a stat booster---it's optimal to use stat boosters as early as possible, but a run needs to be pretty serious before I play completely optimally.)

tj4Hkq4.png  Vk92B5J.png

Rescue's pretty good on this map, but honestly this is way too late for it to be useful, unless you knew it was here and went left side first when climbing.

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After that I wind danced for a few turns before getting a nice, relaxing wind like this that let me bait the next chest pack without separating my team.

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That feeling when Xander has 100% hit rates against you. 30 Avoid is pretty garbage compared to the ~70% or so we were seeing last map.

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Doop, and setting up the pull for the next pack. Once you're this high up-wind turns don't matter anymore.

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Yeah she's just a solid wall of stats at this point.

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She doesn't need it right now (and I don't equip it), but it's very nice quality of life for Ninja maps. Like I said before, you can handle ninjas with AI Manipulation, but it's always nice to be able to just send Camilla (or whoever) in and murder them all.

I1OtOIs.png  Txaq2PK.png

I trade swap to Bronze Sword and rally, because I might as well. (I dropped Lunge rather than Rally for Savage Blow, since they're both low priority skills but I have more Lunges than Rally Skill.)

aoDvAfE.png

Danced rather than separate Felicia since Camilla doesn't need more Atk or bulk. (She doesn't need the speed either, I believe, but eh.)

lTmmAf4.png  WPIgFTu.png

The winds don't really matter now, since you can just move left and right to dodge the down-streams.

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Like I said, Dual weapons are basically Breakers if you have S-rank. (I swap Charlotte to Dual Club before attacking.)

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B-rank is probably the most important weapon rank since it gives damage mitigation with triangle advantage, and also unlocks braves and silvers. (Silver are hard to use, but they do have their niche.)

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Those are some sad, sad, hit rates. (Note the positive crit---Dual weapons randomly have extra crit chance, which is interesting.)

kFHe3bZ.png  kRFgpY7.png

Great level, Odin really enjoys being blessed since his averages are pretty freaky good already. On the other hand, he's even more screwed than Selena if he ends up below his averages, since his bases aren't as nice. (His speed is pretty good if you're the type to Swordmaster him, but everything is meh base-wise in Dark Mage and everything other than Speed and Skill is meh in Samurai, and Skill can be covered by forging Bronzes like 80% of the time.) Note how Camilla's crushing him in stats despite only being 5 levels higher exp wise, though.

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.5 Skill is some real bad proc rate, but it does make crit-fishing more consistent since you roll for both Astra and crits.

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I would never do this normally, using basically a Mend for 3 hp. But I'm not continuing this save, so eh.

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Dancing Camilla to get her enough mobility to run past the downstream.

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Boom. (Using the Bow is important, remember the 2-range Lunge Priestesses on the boss platform.)

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Funds back above 10k again. I miss my mountain of cash, but at least I'm not doing stuff like selling Steels or being forced into child maps.

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Pretty close to the end, now. I'll be skipping the last wave of reinforcements since they're apparently tied to being on the boss platform, and I can just KO and seize. (Another thing I never do, normally, since that's just a bunch of missed exp for no reason.)

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Nice that Savage Blow came in handy like this. Note how even the back half of the old Spear Master pair-up was damaged, Savage Blow also hits your target if it lives, if you're coming into Conquest from FEH. (The positioning is also self based rather than enemy based.)

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Conquest, it's a game where everyone except Selena can get god damn Speed levels.

Nice to know Xander has a great level in his future, though. (I didn't feed him much exp in the 'real' run.)

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Between the Dual Naginata and Bolt Naginata these guys are just so, so sad vs. Xander. (Also nice that Savage Blow + Rose's Thorns is securing the OHKOs, of course.)

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Doop. C-rank gets you Dual Yumi, which matters quite a bit. (I'm not sure if you can get it or where you'd get it if you were in Conquest and not using bp/vp, though.)

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Ended turn like this to dodge the downstream. That's Beruka hanging out above the boss.

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Don't like her Freeze so I explode her as my first move onto the platform.

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Then I smack Fuga around a bit.

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Forgot to take the map screenshot, but, honestly, do you need one?

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Reinforcements spawned, but I knew I had like 90% chances at killing Fuga this turn and Seizing, so I went for it. (Leo misses both shots.) Normally I'd never do this since killing the reinforcements is more consistent + gives you more resources. Also note how Leo's surviving a Silver Weapon despite being Hex'd, Demoiselle & Inspiration is so nice.

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Odin rolls a crit, so he actually deals 24 damage. (He was like 70% going to bring Fuga to critical hp.)

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It's half a Energy Drop, it's good. (Also Brave and Silver access.)

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Doop.

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Do not do this shit if you're playing the map for real, just kill the reinforcements like you're supposed to.

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This is actually slower than my 'real,' run, since proccing the reinforcements early (from Camilla's little adventure) + thinning out the top mooks + being split up into 2 teams longer sped it up a bit. Not much, since I'm the slow & steady type, but enough that I ended in 27 turns or so instead.

 

Epilogue:

Gonna be a big epilogue this time to do some stat updates, since the exp distribution is different than the screenshots indicate.

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Not much changes on Corrin & Azura doesn't matter.

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Camilla's also 15 here, meaning she can swap out into another class whenever, and here's Niles to show just why Camilla is better than everyone at everything.*

*With the exception of the servant trio---none of them measures up to her wall of stats, but all 3 of them can do some broken stuff when you're not buying skills.

 

Her only 'real' issue is that you have to dump exp into her for her to be a main team unit later in the game, whereas I can run Elise and Felicia on 0 exp if I wanted to---like how Elise is a main team unit despite being level 10 unpromoted. And, mind, I rate Felicia higher if maximally invested as well, but Felicia is one of the rare units in Conquest that can handle being resource starved, so I tend to starve her most runs, despite how ridiculous she is at every level of investment.

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Just about everyone on my team is 20+ for speed, which is a real nice feeling. Note how Felicia's under-leveled despite paragon. I don't distribute much resources to her because she can handle it---even her more resource heavy roles rely more on support ranks to access classes than raw levels. Niles gives her Adventurer, for example, for lightning fast Pass access. (She even keeps her staff rank so you can just heal for exp if you can't find some mooks to OHKO with a +4 Bronze Bow.)

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Leo has 20 Speed, because Conquest is a game where everyone except Selena can get Speed levels.

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Reminder that Selena has +3 speed from Speedwings + Dragon Herb. So she's only 1 Speed on Leo right now if we ignore stat booster stats. God damn it, Selena.

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Pretty sure Jakob has Life and Death here as well, although I'll double check his skills before swapping to Paladin.

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Xander didn't get his stellar level yet, and Elise was benched, but she's here to say hi anyway.

 

Support Ranks:

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Lots of rank ups this time around, since it was a fairly grindy map. The Leo C-rank was from my room. (Only Nyx and Niles are missing C-ranks, I believe.) The Selena A-rank also gives Corrin Mercenary if she somehow manages to find enough exp to go in for skills.

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Lots of supports for Niles and Leo. Charlotte support ranks are great since it's Str, Str, Spd, Str + Spd, although Leo cares less about Strength.

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Beruka has Mercenary from Selena if she wants it, now. A self-sustaining class might be pretty useful for the next chapter, but I don't think it'll be worth losing flying mobility for.

Edited by DehNutCase

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1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

We do have Azura, Jakob, and Odin in Hoshido classes, so they don't get the bonus, but the free Def & Res tonics make the enemy mook stats even more trivial than they already were.

I said this earlier, but it only refers to whether than character is a Hoshidan or Nohrian to begin with - class is irrelevant.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

I think you can buy more copies from visiting other castles, so you can keep them relevant for the entire game, but I'm only using castle visits for cooking & forging resources. (Although I might use them for support levels later if I end up being too lazy to just grind them up normally.)

You can't - weapons and items that are limited in quantity in shops, like magic weapons for example, can't be bought in other castles' shops.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Charlotte is basically a Swordmaster in all but name, honestly. Pity she doesn't actually have Samurai or else you could do janky stuff like Vantage X-Breaker Great Club Beserker with like 80% crit, which sounds terrible---since you're dead if you don't crit---until you remember she can also slap Awakening on top of that for 100% crit.

If you're going down to Vantage range anyway you might as well make use of it, ha ha. The Breaker and Awakening would give her 100% hit rates.

The fatal flaw in this setup? The game would be over before you got the necessary skills, because level 15 skills come that damn late. Unless, again, you're Felicia or Jakob. They're the only units I can talk about making any real use of level 15 skills.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

B-rank is probably the most important weapon rank since it gives damage mitigation with triangle advantage, and also unlocks braves and silvers. (Silver are hard to use, but they do have their niche.)

Correction: Braves require A rank. Though I could see why you assumed that, since brave weapons were B rank in most other games before Awakening came along and made them A rank.

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51 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I said this earlier, but it only refers to whether than character is a Hoshidan or Nohrian to begin with - class is irrelevant.

1ul8Vtl.png  70gyo0e.png

This is from my chapter 20 save.

51 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The fatal flaw in this setup? The game would be over before you got the necessary skills, because level 15 skills come that damn late. Unless, again, you're Felicia or Jakob. They're the only units I can talk about making any real use of level 15 skills.

Camilla has a level 15 skill right now, and Charlotte has the offenses to eat early promotion stat penalties. (Being Beserker rather than Hero also gives a tad more offenses---you don't get to crit because you have to use Bronzes, but Hero wasn't critting much anyway.) Plus you don't really need completed skillsets until enemies are nearing level 15, meaning you have ~10 or so levels to get everything.  You can force your unit 5 levels above by focusing on them temporarily, and another 5 from early promotion.

You can also optimize level 15 skill acquisition by getting the previous skills earlier, so the level 15s come within 1 level of each other, but you don't need to do that.

Edited by DehNutCase

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1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

1ul8Vtl.png  70gyo0e.png

This is from my chapter 20 save.

Huh. So it does depend on class. You got me there, I guess. I never thought class had anything to do with it. Then again, that'd be hard to figure out outside of Revelation thanks to (mostly) exclusive rosters and the fact that most units tend to have class options consisting solely of Hoshidan or Nohrian classes.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Camilla has a level 15 skill right now, and Charlotte has the offenses to eat early promotion stat penalties. (Being Beserker rather than Hero also gives a tad more offenses---you don't get to crit because you have to use Bronzes, but Hero wasn't critting much anyway.) Plus you don't really need completed skillsets until enemies are nearing level 15, meaning you have ~10 or so levels to get everything.  You can force your unit 5 levels above by focusing on them temporarily, and another 5 from early promotion.

You can also optimize level 15 skill acquisition by getting the previous skills earlier, so the level 15s come within 1 level of each other, but you don't need to do that.

Yeah, but that's Camilla we're talking about, and she's an exception thanks to -5 internal levels. Charlotte... I generally don't see early promotion recommended for her unless it's to use her as pair up fodder, aka the only thing she's good for. Also, I'm not a fan of early promotion - there are games it can work in, but this isn't one of them. Especially when you're a bad unit who needs every level they can get. Trying to pick up all the other skills before then sounds like it'd be really seal intensive, and there's the matter of limited seals for the majority of the game (without using online, at least).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Huh. So it does depend on class. You got me there, I guess. I never thought class had anything to do with it. Then again, that'd be hard to figure out outside of Revelation thanks to (mostly) exclusive rosters and the fact that most units tend to have class options consisting solely of Hoshidan or Nohrian classes.

Mind, it's possible that the Saucy and Elegant flairs depend on base class, unlike the Nohrian and Hoshidan flairs, despite them saying the same affected text. (I vaguely remember reading something about the food court being weird like that.)

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yeah, but that's Camilla we're talking about, and she's an exception thanks to -5 internal levels. Charlotte... I generally don't see early promotion recommended for her unless it's to use her as pair up fodder, aka the only thing she's good for. Also, I'm not a fan of early promotion - there are games it can work in, but this isn't one of them. Especially when you're a bad unit who needs every level they can get. Trying to pick up all the other skills before then sounds like it'd be really seal intensive, and there's the matter of limited seals for the majority of the game (without using online, at least).

Endgame is more about skillbuilds than about raw stats, so early promotion is an option for everyone who can handle it---and anyone who can handle being exp starved can handle early promotion. You get enough pre-promoted units that carrying around Nyx, Elise, or Charlotte with -5 internal levels isn't a problem for the mid-game. I would honestly say Conquest is one of the games where early promotion can be the optimal choice for performance, since skills dominate raw stats.

Like, the early Dark Knight > Adventurer thing for Nyx meant that unlike the normal growth shaped curve where she gets better as the game goes on, she ends up with a 'U' shaped performance curve where she's very strong in the early game, falls off during the mid game, and then picks right back up once she hits level 15. If everyone does that you'd have problems during the mid-game, but Conquest has so many strong mid-game units that you shouldn't be having problems.

 

And seals aren't actually that limited, it's mostly when you rush for class changes that they become a problem, but note that in my run I always had more than enough, thanks to a combination of using Friendship & Partner Seals over just forcing everyone to use Heart Seals + the fact that I slow-roll class changes for team composition purposes. (If you do child maps the seals thing become even easier to handle, since a lot of them drop a bunch of random master and class change seals.)

Edited by DehNutCase

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32 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Endgame is more about skillbuilds than about raw stats, so early promotion is an option for everyone who can handle it---and anyone who can handle being exp starved can handle early promotion. You get enough pre-promoted units that carrying around Nyx, Elise, or Charlotte with -5 internal levels isn't a problem for the mid-game. I would honestly say Conquest is one of the games where early promotion can be the optimal choice for performance, since skills dominate raw stats.

Like, the early Dark Knight > Adventurer thing for Nyx meant that unlike the normal growth shaped curve where she gets better as the game goes on, she ends up with a 'U' shaped performance curve where she's very strong in the early game, falls off during the mid game, and then picks right back up once she hits level 15. If everyone does that you'd have problems during the mid-game, but Conquest has so many strong mid-game units that you shouldn't be having problems.

 

And seals aren't actually that limited, it's mostly when you rush for class changes that they become a problem, but note that in my run I always had more than enough, thanks to a combination of using Friendship & Partner Seals over just forcing everyone to use Heart Seals + the fact that I slow-roll class changes for team composition purposes. (If you do child maps the seals thing become even easier to handle, since a lot of them drop a bunch of random master and class change seals.)

Perhaps, but mind you, stats still matter a lot - having great skills doesn't mean much when you suck so bad statistically you can't leverage them... like Nyx and Charlotte do. 

Which I doubt because Nyx is overspecialized and is compromised because of it - I'd either have to feed her two Arms Scrolls or have her use physical weapons with that AMAZING strength stat of hers if I did what you did. And even then, guess what? Her shit accuracy comes back to bite her in the ass. I consider it a no-win situation since she's practically an experience black hole. Ergo, I'm better off ditching her ASAP and using units that actually have a future in Conquest's unforgiving conditions.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Perhaps, but mind you, stats still matter a lot - having great skills doesn't mean much when you suck so bad statistically you can't leverage them... like Nyx and Charlotte do. 

Which I doubt because Nyx is overspecialized and is compromised because of it - I'd either have to feed her two Arms Scrolls or have her use physical weapons with that AMAZING strength stat of hers if I did what you did. And even then, guess what? Her shit accuracy comes back to bite her in the ass. I consider it a no-win situation since she's practically an experience black hole.

Charlotte has 20 Str in Beserker if you promote her level 10. And Nyx uses bows, it's pretty trivial to just forge a Bronze into OHKO range (or 2HKO from the attack + an Attack Stance), adventurer also uses staves if you're the type to staff spam for exp.

Bronze Bows also have 90% accuracy before forges, and Shining has 70%, which goes to 90% when you take Heartseeker into account.

 

Like, I legitimately do not understand how you think accuracy or damage is an issue in Conquest.

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1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Charlotte has 20 Str in Beserker if you promote her level 10. And Nyx uses bows, it's pretty trivial to just forge a Bronze into OHKO range (or 2HKO from the attack + an Attack Stance), adventurer also uses staves if you're the type to staff spam for exp.

Bronze Bows also have 90% accuracy before forges, and Shining has 70%, which goes to 90% when you take Heartseeker into account.

 

Like, I legitimately do not understand how you think accuracy or damage is an issue in Conquest.

Which doesn't help much when Charlotte cannot stay alive on the frontlines because of her shit durability. At best, she dents one enemy unit, and in the process winds up severely wounded to the point that she needs to get healed the next turn, because a second enemy attack would drop her like a Shedinja that got hit by one of its many Kryptonites. That's not impressing me. At all. And this is ignoring that she's still locked to the most inaccurate weapon type, which is a bad thing, in addition to the fact that she suffers a crit evade penalty since this is Berserker we're talking about, meaning worst case scenario, she dies a horrible death, and you have to reset. Whoopedy-freaking-do.

Except with her everything being crap, she needs someone else to contribute Heartseeker, because other than against archers, Battering Clubs, Spears, Wakizashis, and Tomahawks, she'd just get her skull bashed in if she tried to use it for herself, which isn't helped by the Shining Bow's massive avoid penalty, which further ensures her demise. And her skill and luck being as crap as they are aren't gonna make her a deadeye with the Shining Bow's 70 base hit if she doesn't get any aid from outside factors. Tell me, why in the name of Anankos is this scrub worth investing in again!?

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I think Charolette is kind of useful late game as an Berserker. Granted, I was playing on Hard and gave her with an Killer Axe that had 2/3 accuracy and an insane crit rate. To me, she was an boss-killer and vanguard because of her personal skill; plus I think I had Benny and everyone else to move in front of her after she killed someone because it would be kind of stupid to leave an opening like that.

I'm not sure about the hero class because I only put Arthur in it because of his horrible crit rates and...It turned out that Camilla and Charolette wear dealing more damage than him, so he was benched.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Which doesn't help much when Charlotte cannot stay alive on the frontlines because of her shit durability. At best, she dents one enemy unit, and in the process winds up severely wounded to the point that she needs to get healed the next turn, because a second enemy attack would drop her like a Shedinja that got hit by one of its many Kryptonites. That's not impressing me. At all. And this is ignoring that she's still locked to the most inaccurate weapon type, which is a bad thing, in addition to the fact that she suffers a crit evade penalty since this is Berserker we're talking about, meaning worst case scenario, she dies a horrible death, and you have to reset. Whoopedy-freaking-do.

Except with her everything being crap, she needs someone else to contribute Heartseeker, because other than against archers, Battering Clubs, Spears, Wakizashis, and Tomahawks, she'd just get her skull bashed in if she tried to use it for herself, which isn't helped by the Shining Bow's massive avoid penalty, which further ensures her demise. And her skill and luck being as crap as they are aren't gonna make her a deadeye with the Shining Bow's 70 base hit if she doesn't get any aid from outside factors. Tell me, why in the name of Anankos is this scrub worth investing in again!?

Just play on Lunatic, dude.

 

Everyone has crap for bulk, to the point where early promoted Charlotte tends to be on the bulkier 50% because she has hp---she has +5 hp from fighter, and Beserker actually has better physical bulk for the first hit compared to hero, and identical for 2 hits. You're playing on a difficulty where units actually have bulk, I'm not. (You can get around this by doing child maps and being over-leveled, but again, I'm not doing that.) You're also completely ignoring what it actually means to be using bronze weapons---you get 10% hit over iron and 10% dodge---if you think Charlotte gets randomly exploded then you shouldn't use any unit in the game, because they all have worse dodge than a Bronze Axe Charlotte. Yes, you have people like Xander and Leo who have natural Bronze Weapons, but the thing about Xander and Leo is that their weapons have less accuracy and damage than a forged Bronze Axe, not more.

And if you think I have trouble getting Nyx to 100% hit rates you haven't been paying attention to the amount of stats I can stack via positioning. You get 10% for the first person you're standing next to, and 4% for everyone past that, and if you stand next to Corrin that's another 15% from Supportive.

 

A lot of what you're saying comes from: A, not playing on a difficulty where 2HKOs are expected on just about everyone, and B, not being good enough at the game. A lot of issues you have come from a lack of fundamentals in positioning and resource distribution (it's cheaper to get Nyx good accuracy than to get Ophelia a bunch of Mag and Speed, and that difference leads to a real resource difference between you and me). Positioning matters in Conquest, just like how resource distribution matters, you're getting away with being bad because you're not actually on a difficulty where that matters. I'm not even on a difficulty where that matters---I can get away with using a lot less resources, but that doesn't mean it's optimal to spend more on a unit to do the exact same thing another unit with less investment can handle.

 

Your alternatives cost more resources to do what Nyx does, not less---you're basically saying Nyx hogs too much exp to get Pass etc. on time but you have no problem feeding 5 extra levels to a level 20 promotion Niles or a Shura to get pass. And anyone less min-maxed than Nyx will get even more ruined from early promotion. (Niles can handle it, mind, since he's also pretty min-maxed, and unlike most other low internal level options he has Outlaw naturally.)

 

Edit:

15 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

I think Charolette is kind of useful late game as an Berserker. Granted, I was playing on Hard and gave her with an Killer Axe that had 2/3 accuracy and an insane crit rate. To me, she was an boss-killer and vanguard because of her personal skill; plus I think I had Benny and everyone else to move in front of her after she killed someone because it would be kind of stupid to leave an opening like that.

I'm not sure about the hero class because I only put Arthur in it because of his horrible crit rates and...It turned out that Camilla and Charolette wear dealing more damage than him, so he was benched.

Charlotte has some of the most min-maxed offenses in the game, so she's really good at the style Conquest more or less expects from you, which is highly mobile offenses that clears every single threat in one player phase. Most other units lack just a bit of Atk or Spd to ORKO consistently, but invested Charlotte has very consistent ORKOs. (Her issue is that she needs 'upkeep' in the form of healing after pretty much every fight, but a highly mobile team can spare a player phase between waves to heal everyone up.)

Personally I don't like keeping units foot-locked, even if Berserker gives 20% crit for free, but if she's having trouble ORKOs for some reason (or if you just didn't want to pump a lot of resources into her), I don't mind something like a Killer Axe build since that's really cheap on resources. Everyone on my team tends to walk around with massive amounts of bling, though---a Killer Axe + Master Seal is 5.3k or something vs. Odin's +4 Iron that's already 16k by itself. It might not look like it, but Conquest gives you a lot of gold to stuff into your units. Similarly, if I was using a invested Charlotte she'd be using like 20-25k worth of stuff in her inventory, which makes her ORKOs extremely consistent.

 

Regarding Hero, it has 2 modes. One is the 'mowing down mooks' mode where you can use when either enemy density is low or enemy stats are low (Hoshido maps tend to have at least one or another of these---and feel free to chug a Defense tonic when you're doing that), where you use their good bulk and self-sustain to handle minor tasks that you don't need a large group for, while also being more or less ideal front-liners when they're in your main group. The other mode is being Breaker fodder. Breakers give 50% hit and avoid versus the weapon type, and Beserkers are pretty scary in Conquest. Axe Breaker more or less trivializes mook Beserkers and let you do stuff like using Great Club because you're getting 50% hit for basically free anyway. Neither mode really require that you stay in Hero, though, since you can pick up the Hero line's skills and then swap out without caring too much.

 

Regarding Arthur, the thing about him is that he's pretty much the bulkiest unit in your lineup for the early to mid-game. He has 50% def growths and starts with 29 hp (24 base, 5 from Fighter's +5) and 9 base Def. The random crit rates on him are only an issue if you absolutely hated Bronze Weapons. (Forged Bronzes and Irons do the same damage for the same cost until +4 on Bronze, and Bronzes only do 1 damage less after that.)

You don't get to use Sol if you have him Bronze Locked, but he's more of an early game specialist in terms of his 'timing' relative to other units. He does stay decent, but blessed units do eventually overcome his (pretty huge) early game bulk lead if he wasn't blessed himself. So he drops down to basically about average---meaning I tend to bench him like how I tend to bench pretty much everyone who doesn't high-roll. Conquest has a lot of 'good enough' units. Arthur is better than 'good enough' in the early game, but falls down to average again once you get deep enough into the game that units become blessed or screwed.

Edited by DehNutCase

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Well, I wasn't really using bronze stuff because of the (no offensive skills) thing, I'm more of an iron & steel kind of guy since B-rank and above will screw me over and I didn't know about the infinite gold from Lilith. Plus, it doesn't help that I camped and rotated around Azura's healing aura. 

 

By the way, what's foot-locking?

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5 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Well, I wasn't really using bronze stuff because of the (no offensive skills) thing, I'm more of an iron & steel kind of guy since B-rank and above will screw me over and I didn't know about the infinite gold from Lilith. Plus, it doesn't help that I camped and rotated around Azura's healing aura. 

 

By the way, what's foot-locking?

The no offensive skills thing actually plays into Arthur's early game superiority---since you flat out don't have offensive skills early game, other than Dragon Fang. Mind, it's still a very real downside, but I like the upside of being able freely swap equipment around + not needing to worry about mooks with high crit until the endgame, when you need some serious stat stacking to see 0% crits.

 

Being foot-locked just means you're an infantry---meaning 6 movement. I'm pretty sloppy about positioning most of the time, so having 7+ movement on most of my units lets me recover from bad positioning a lot easier. If you have no problems handling low mobility there's no real issue with running a bunch of infantry---I'm just too lazy to do it.

Edited by DehNutCase

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Well, mobility in Conquest isn't that important, unless you're after some treasure or you're chasing Candace. But positioning shouldn't be that big of an problem if you have enough elbow room to work with.

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4 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Just play on Lunatic, dude.

 

Everyone has crap for bulk, to the point where early promoted Charlotte tends to be on the bulkier 50% because she has hp---she has +5 hp from fighter, and Beserker actually has better physical bulk for the first hit compared to hero, and identical for 2 hits. You're playing on a difficulty where units actually have bulk, I'm not. (You can get around this by doing child maps and being over-leveled, but again, I'm not doing that.) You're also completely ignoring what it actually means to be using bronze weapons---you get 10% hit over iron and 10% dodge---if you think Charlotte gets randomly exploded then you shouldn't use any unit in the game, because they all have worse dodge than a Bronze Axe Charlotte. Yes, you have people like Xander and Leo who have natural Bronze Weapons, but the thing about Xander and Leo is that their weapons have less accuracy and damage than a forged Bronze Axe, not more.

And if you think I have trouble getting Nyx to 100% hit rates you haven't been paying attention to the amount of stats I can stack via positioning. You get 10% for the first person you're standing next to, and 4% for everyone past that, and if you stand next to Corrin that's another 15% from Supportive.

 

A lot of what you're saying comes from: A, not playing on a difficulty where 2HKOs are expected on just about everyone, and B, not being good enough at the game. A lot of issues you have come from a lack of fundamentals in positioning and resource distribution (it's cheaper to get Nyx good accuracy than to get Ophelia a bunch of Mag and Speed, and that difference leads to a real resource difference between you and me). Positioning matters in Conquest, just like how resource distribution matters, you're getting away with being bad because you're not actually on a difficulty where that matters. I'm not even on a difficulty where that matters---I can get away with using a lot less resources, but that doesn't mean it's optimal to spend more on a unit to do the exact same thing another unit with less investment can handle.

 

Your alternatives cost more resources to do what Nyx does, not less---you're basically saying Nyx hogs too much exp to get Pass etc. on time but you have no problem feeding 5 extra levels to a level 20 promotion Niles or a Shura to get pass. And anyone less min-maxed than Nyx will get even more ruined from early promotion. (Niles can handle it, mind, since he's also pretty min-maxed, and unlike most other low internal level options he has Outlaw naturally.)

And how the fuck do you expect that to change my opinion of the unholy trinity (Arthur, Nyx, and Charlotte)??! Geez, use logical reasoning, dude. If someone is obviously a hassle in frigging Normal mode, they aren't gonna suddenly become worth using, let alone amazing on fucking Lunatic. That's completely illogical, and you know it.

 

Even though enemy stats are mostly the same as in Hard mode? Really? About the only things that change enemy wise are more enemy units, maxed weapon ranks on enemy units, and more skills on them (for what it's worth, that can - and often does - make a difference in how you approach a chapter). As for Charlotte, Camilla still exists, and she has comparable offense and isn't so easily killed. Also, it takes a +3 Bronze Axe forge to surpass those weapons you used in might. That's not something I can rely on having without online. Oh, and ironically, Charlotte also happens to often be recommended as pair up fodder for Xander.

 

Once again, what's with this "everyone gets 2HKOed" bullshit you keep spouting!?! About the only thing that could make that true, considering enemy stats are no different on Lunatic, is if Life and Death and like skills got tossed around like Halloween candy, and from what I'm seeing here, that ain't the case. Also, it's tactically inflexible to get Nyx to have not-shit accuracy (that means I have to glue Corrin to her when Corrin is one of the few reliable frontliners I have, or field another Heartseeker unit - the only other units beside Nyx herself, who probably won't get much use out of her own Heartseeker because she's that fragile, who are guaranteed to have it are Odin (who's rather hit-or-miss), Ophelia (requires marrying Odin), and Leo, who comes in about halfway through the game, at which point I might have already decided I want nothing to do with Nyx). I mean, I'll grant positioning matters, but in Nyx's case, I'm pretty much forced to sacrifice tactical flexibility because of her statistical weaknesses, and that's a bad thing, last I checked. Also, making assumptions about my skill level isn't bolstering your argument at all, so do yourself a favour and stop.

 

Because all that experience Nyx has to take to get Pass could have gone to a better unit instead if I wasn't using her. Also, I don't use Niles or Shura over the long term - the former in particular tends to not be able to pick up the slack when I need him to.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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14 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

@Shadow Mir, how good at you with math? Because from where I'm sitting at, being hit twice for roughly 20 damage is basically an two-hit kill...Provided that they both connect.

Who's getting hit twice for 20 damage here? This sounds like conjecture without evidence. And this is flagrantly ignoring there are many ways to cut damage taken.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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