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What are your thoughts on Edelgard? *SPOILERS*

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16 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

It is pretty clear that Dimitri seeks out imperial troops indiscriminately and that he seeks to kill them and do so in manners that would cause the most possible pain. Yes, he does got out of his way to kill and most certainly doesn't only do it in self-defense. He pursues a quest for vengeance. 

Well, I won't say it's as clear as you say. If that was the case, I believe the game would have told us about it, and from what I remember....We got told nothing about him going out of his way to kill those troops, and if anything, from the looks of things when Byleth first Dimitri. It looked like it was them who came to him, and not the other way around. And do you really think Dimitri would be as reckless as to attack a troop of soldiers on his own? I find that to be very unlikely. You said it, he's out for revenge, so the chances are he won't risk his life like that.

16 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

He was a straight up psychopathic murderer and acknowledges this much himself. It was enough to disgust some of his own allies, Felix particularly. He is less morally redeemable to me than Edelgard is. 

Yes, that's becasue he's not happy about what he became in the last 5 years. And if you ask me...the fact he finds himself to be a murder makes him a lot more of a human to me than someone like Edelgard. The fact he thinks of himself as a monster means he's aware that what he did isn't truly right. 

16 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I'm not sure why he's getting a pass on only killing imperial troops rather than civilians considering Edelgard does too only wage war against the soldiers of the Church and Kingdom/Alliance. 

I wouldn't say he's getting a pass here, but it's more like...it's just most people wouldn't look at that and think of it as somehow to be worst than some of the things Edelgard did. So I guess when you compare those two, the things Dimitri does do look like nothing. But I get it we all have different opinions and feelings on this. 

Sorry I really didn't want to start a debate on this lol V_V 

1 minute ago, CyberNinja said:

Then why are you one a thread about her?

 

Well, the topic at hand wasn't really about her, but okay : ) I'm glad you also agreed on my nickname for her~

1 minute ago, CyberNinja said:

because he did? The imperial troops didn't choose to start the war, most of Dimitry's killings were on the ground nobodies and Dimitry was known to take his time with them that he became known as the "one-eyed demon."

They were soldiers, not nobodies , and it seem like you forgot that the chances are they were trying to kill him. They came to him, not the other way around. I'm pretty sure Dimitri wouldn't have carried their bodies all the way to the academy if he was truly the one that went out after them in the first place. So I would assume they were the ones that showed up there first. Now why were they there? I would assume to kill him, and something tells me that they won't just listen if he told them to go away, so the chances are he hand no choice but to kill them.

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2 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

 And do you really think Dimitri would be as reckless as to attack a troop of soldiers on his own?

Yes.

I'm now questionning whether you paid attention when you played the Blue Lions route. 

 

Edited by Vince777

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1 minute ago, Nihilem said:

Well they choosed to become soldiers. The lust inside the empire to become great (in the sense of size) again was widely known. And if you invade another country you cant blame the local inhabitants that they try to kill you. I get the whole torture part that might be considered evil but the killing is definetly not morally grey or anything but quite logical in his situation.

And again, the agressor was Edelgard and the empire - not dimitri and the kingdom.

I get its hard to imagine a world unlike our own but in the medieval context, its very likely they didn't choose to be soldiers but were conscripts under some officer, the officers themselves were likely from a family with military history and were most likely groomed to be soldiers. Furthermore once they were part of the army, they likely were never allowed to leave (in the case of officers) much like how joining the British empire's army in the colonial era was a lifetime commitment.

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4 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Well, I won't say it's as clear as you say. If that was the case, I believe the game would have told us about it, and from what I remember....We got told nothing about him going out of his way to kill those troops, and if anything, from the looks of things when Byleth first Dimitri. It looked like it was them who came to him, and not the other way around. And do you really think Dimitri would be as reckless as to attack a troop of soldiers on his own? I find that to be very unlikely. You said it, he's out for revenge, so the chances are he won't risk his life like that.

Well that is actually something thats sound really like something Dimitri would do ....

1 minute ago, CyberNinja said:

I get its hard to imagine a world unlike our own but in the medieval context, its very likely they didn't choose to be soldiers but were conscripts under some officer, the officers themselves were likely from a family with military history and were most likely groomed to be soldiers. Furthermore once they were part of the army, they likely were never allowed to leave (in the case of officers) much like how joining the British empire's army in the colonial era was a lifetime commitment.

I dont think it is ever said that conscription exists in the game. Given that all soldiers are fully equipped and trained I think it is likely to assume that they rely on professionals for most of the time.

Edited by Nihilem

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5 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I'm now questionning whether you paid attention when you played the Blue Lions route. 

I'm a human, I could forget a detail or two ^_^ But to me it seem like I payed more attention than you. 

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation.

Edited by Rose482

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Dimitri has clear suicidal tendencies by mid-game and desires to rush imperial troops towards Edelgard. 

He's extremely reckless and constantly needs to be reigned in by the people around him. If he didn't have them, he'd be dead, which is exactly what happens to him when he's left alone in another route which you may or may have not played. 

Edited by Vince777

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4 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Well, the topic at hand wasn't really about her, but okay : ) I'm glad you also agreed on my nickname for her~

12 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

It's an accurate nickname.

5 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Dimitri would be as reckless as to attack a troop of soldiers on his own?

I mean that's what he did in the first timeskip cutscene, and the first mission following?

6 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

I'm pretty sure Dimitri wouldn't have carried their bodies all the way to the academy if he was truly the one that went out after them in the first place.

Actually those soldiers were investigating reports of bandits in the monastery, they're reargard troops and thus not likely the ones causing mayham in the other two nations. They're as close to innocent as soldiers can get.

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13 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Then why are you one a thread about her?

 

I agree, Dimitry is justified because he suffers form the PTSD unlike Edelgard who was only tortured for years and watched her own family die horribly.

 

because he did? The imperial troops didn't choose to start the war, most of Dimitry's killings were on the ground nobodies and Dimitry was known to take his time with them that he became known as the "one-eyed demon."

Edelgard may have suffered from a tragic backstory, but it’s quite clear that she is significantly more stable than Dimitri- she’s more than capable of showing what’s the difference between right and wrong.

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Dimitri knows that what he's doing is wrong even in his worst moments.

It's clear in the manner he describes himself and his behavior.

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6 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Edelgard may have suffered from a tragic backstory, but it’s quite clear that she is significantly more stable than Dimitri- she’s more than capable of showing what’s the difference between right and wrong.

And then decides to do the wrong thing 🤣.

 

I wouldnt say the Edelgard is more "stable". Just that her mental problem take a different form - namely complete trust issues, which cause many of the problems we solve in the game. I am pretty sure if Dimitri was in Edelgards place he would have reached out before throwing the continent into a bloody war. Or faced TWSITD alone and died....

Edited by Nihilem

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29 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Actually those soldiers were investigating reports of bandits in the monastery, they're reargard troops and thus not likely the ones causing mayham in the other two nations. They're as close to innocent as soldiers can get.

Is that so? Well, it seem like I forgot about that detail somehow, and yet it sorta doesn't change much. While it's true they might not have been there to kill him, but had they found him and realized who he was, the chances are they wouldn't have stayed silent. 

Also, from Dimitri's point of view, would have had no idea of knowing that, nor do we truly even know just how involved they were in the whole war, but the fact they were wearing that armor does say they were apart of it at the very least. 

Regardless however, that still doesn't mean Dimitri himself is going out from the academy and killing troops. I'm not saying what he did to them is right, but honestly like....it's still nothing in comparison to a certain someone. And really that what made me start this lovely debate, didn't it?

29 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

I mean that's what he did in the first timeskip cutscene, and the first mission following?

37 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

The first cutscene after the timeskip? I'm not sure which part are you referring too. Do you mean the one where the 3 armies fought, or the first chapter of second part of the game?

Also I'm not saying Dimitri isn't reckless, but I AM saying that he probably wouldn't want to die before he gets his revenge on Edelgard. You do see his more reckless side whenever Edelgard is involved after all. 

Edited by Rose482

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8 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

 

Is that so? Well, it seem like I forgot about that detail somehow, and yet it sorta doesn't change much. While it's true they might not have been there to kill him, but had they found him and realized who he was, the chances are they wouldn't have stayed silent. 

Also, from Dimitri's point of view, would have had no idea of knowing that, nor do we truly even know just how involved they were in the whole war, but the fact they were wearing that armor does say they were apart of it at the very least. 

Regardless however, that still doesn't mean Dimitri himself is going out from the academy and killing troops. I'm not saying what he did to them is right, but honestly like....it's still nothing in comparison to a certain someone. And really that what made me start this lovely debate, didn't it?

The first cutscene after the timeskip? I'm not sure which part are you referring too. Do you mean the one where the 3 armies fought, or the first chapter of second part of the game?

Also I'm not saying Dimitri isn't reckless, but I AM saying that he probably wouldn't want to die before he gets his revenge on Edelgard. You do see his more reckless side whenever Edelgard is involved after all. 

Chapter 1 of Azure Moon is Dimitry literally challenging an army of Bandits on his own, its why he was there in the Monastery in the first place, he never planned on Byleth's help but made use of it as soon as it was available. If you question him on his suicidal vigilantism, he simply doesn't care whether or not he gets killed, so long as the "dead get their tribute." Thus you must realize that Dimitry's goal isn't quite "get revenge on Edelgard" but rather that act of "taking revenge." Thus even if it kills him fighting nobodies or just some imperial patrol, this is equivalent in priotirty to actually doing something that'd inconvenience Edelgard. The only time this changes is when he actually sees her in which case he will blindly charge her even if it gets him killed (such as in Golden Deer where he dies solely because he followed Edelgard's retreat and got ambushed by Imperial cavalry.)

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2 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Chapter 1 of Azure Moon is Dimitry literally challenging an army of Bandits on his own, its why he was there in the Monastery in the first place, he never planned on Byleth's help but made use of it as soon as it was available. If you question him on his suicidal vigilantism, he simply doesn't care whether or not he gets killed, so long as the "dead get their tribute." Thus you must realize that Dimitry's goal isn't quite "get revenge on Edelgard" but rather that act of "taking revenge." Thus even if it kills him fighting nobodies or just some imperial patrol, this is equivalent in priotirty to actually doing something that'd inconvenience Edelgard. The only time this changes is when he actually sees her in which case he will blindly charge her even if it gets him killed (such as in Golden Deer where he dies solely because he followed Edelgard's retreat and got ambushed by Imperial cavalry.)

Eh, I don't really believe taking revenge on Edelgard was ever out of his head, but it's more like he had no way of doing it, so he put his attention on somewhere else. And I think this is easily proven when Byleth first finds him. He both thinks Byleth is a another ghost that came to hunt him and makes a promise about how he would get a revenge "on that woman". So Edelgard never truly left his mind. As far as fighting some bandits goes...well, honestly for all we know Dimitri might not have had thought of them to be much of a threat. Which yes is reckless, but I don't think he would pick up a fight that he knows he wouldn't be able to win after swearing to kill Edelgard to Byleth. 

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6 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Eh, I don't really believe taking revenge on Edelgard was ever out of his head, but it's more like he had no way of doing it, so he put his attention on somewhere else. And I think this is easily proven when Byleth first finds him. He both thinks Byleth is a another ghost that came to hunt him and makes a promise about how he would get a revenge "on that woman". So Edelgard never truly left his mind. As far as fighting some bandits goes...well, honestly for all we know Dimitri might not have had thought of them to be much of a threat. Which yes is reckless, but I don't think he would pick up a fight that he knows he wouldn't be able to win after swearing to kill Edelgard to Byleth. 

I didn't mean to imply that revenge left his mind, only that he increasingly broadened what was considered "acting on revenge" possibly for his own fracturing sanity.

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Its also suicidal revenge. Dimitiri wants to die and even if he killed Edelgard, murder wouldn't stop his rampage. What helps him is the bonds of friends (this is SO sappy) that alllow him to regain his sanity. And thats ONLY if Byleth is there.

 

In GD/Church he rushes off to his death in a suicidal charge against the empire. In Edelgard path he is more sane and instead its Dedue who commits major sin, sacrificing kingdom soldiers into monsters in a vain attempt to stop Edelgard. Note that if you let Dedue transform first before killing him, Dimitri will be much more insane when you finally finish him off. Promoting Edelgard to refer to him as the delusional king.



It is odd that people that condem Edelgard are so willing to forgive Dimitiri his murderous and suicidal rampage. One in which he is willing to get his own men killed just so he can die killing as many of the empire as possible. This is not a man with a sound mind. He is not fit to be king and should have stepped down in favor of someone else in his own route but instead we got some ludicrous redemption arc that flys by at warp speed.

I'd respect far more the position that both Edelgard and Dimitiri are bad people and Claude is the only good lord in the game. Both of them have their positive qualities but their actions outside their own routes leads their forces to disaster.

Edited by wissenschaft

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10 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

It is odd that people that condem Edelgard are so willing to forgive Dimitiri his murderous and suicidal rampage.

There's a reason I forgive both, I find it tragic.

 

Incidentally the Golden Deer players are mostly quiet on whether or not Dimitry and Edelgard are good or bad people, funny that the people with the strongest moral position are the least likely to flaunt it.

Edited by CyberNinja

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Yes, I agree they are both tragic characters. I can sympathies with both and I can chastise both for their flaws. Neither character ever truly recovers from their past.

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6 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

 

Incidentally the Golden Deer players are mostly quiet on whether or not Dimitry and Edelgard are good or bad people, funny that the people with the strongest moral position are the least likely to flaunt it.

You don't have much to base on regarding Dimitri if you've only played GD.

I played BL last and I still barely knew anything about him going in. 

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Well, I won't say it's as clear as you say. If that was the case, I believe the game would have told us about it, and from what I remember....We got told nothing about him going out of his way to kill those troops, and if anything, from the looks of things when Byleth first Dimitri. It looked like it was them who came to him, and not the other way around. And do you really think Dimitri would be as reckless as to attack a troop of soldiers on his own? I find that to be very unlikely. You said it, he's out for revenge, so the chances are he won't risk his life like that.

I'm sorry, but Dimitri was literally that character for the first half of part 2 in his route. He explicitly states that he doesn't care what you do as long as you don't get in his way and threatens to cut you down if you do. He also makes multiple remarks that he doesn't care what happens to the army and says that he's only there because they're beneficial at the moment.

When he finally comes around, he even admits to Byleth that he was spiraling towards death and killed multiple people in heinous ways which he can't make amends for. I specifically remember his lines because it struck me as odd how people were acting like Edelgard was the cold one when I've seen so many more examples of empathy on her end.

Edited by Eltoshen

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4 minutes ago, Eltoshen said:

I'm sorry, but Dimitri was literally that character for the first half of part 2 in his route. He explicitly states that he doesn't care what you do as long as you don't get in his way and threatens to cut you down if you do. He also makes multiple remarks that he doesn't care what happens to the army and says that he's only there because they're beneficial at the moment.

When he finally comes around, he even admits to Byleth that he was spiraling towards death and killed multiple people in heinous ways which he can't make amends for. I specifically remember his lines because it struck me as odd how people were acting like Edelgard was the cold one when I've seen so many more examples of empathy on her end.

A major part of Dimitry's character is the guilt for surviving, the guilt for his failure to save his kingdom, the guilt for failing to get revenge, and the guilt for essentially becoming what he did. A lot of the early part of Azure Moon is Dimitry actively acting out in such a way as to goad Byleth into killing him, seeing it as a way to atone.

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2 minutes ago, Eltoshen said:

 

No, he wasn't "literally that character". Not caring about the army or Byleth means just that. Not once did the game say anything about Dimitri going around and killing any troops his eyes see. 

I also didn't say he didn't kill anyone in a "heinous ways"? What I said that the people he killed weren't innocent civilians who meant no harm to him. 

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2 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Not once did the game say anything about Dimitri going around and killing any troops his eyes see. 

It kind of did though?

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Dimitri disturbs me at times... the way he treated Randolph... I get, he's a enemy and should die...

But... why drag it FOR SO LONG?... Byleth knew this shit only would get more and more disgusting, so they kill him.

Are you insane Dimitri? Or wait, he is.

Edited by Troykv

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17 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

A major part of Dimitry's character is the guilt for surviving, the guilt for his failure to save his kingdom, the guilt for failing to get revenge, and the guilt for essentially becoming what he did. A lot of the early part of Azure Moon is Dimitry actively acting out in such a way as to goad Byleth into killing him, seeing it as a way to atone.

I can agree with that but he was still a cold murderer who went around enacting his own justice by killing people he believed deserved to die. So in essence, cool motive, still murder. He never showed empathy like Edelgard does, or at least I don't recall him doing so.

And yes thank you for reminding me about Randolph. That part really made me dislike him.

Edited by Eltoshen

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1 minute ago, Eltoshen said:

I can agree with that but he was still a cold murderer who went around enacting his own justice by killing people he believed deserved to die. So in essence, cool motive, still murder. He never showed empathy like Edelgard does.

I think its funny you noticed that, many on the forum would have thought it the opposite.

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