Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Alastor15243]

19 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

What do you guys think about Demon King's manipulation of Eirika? 

I can only assume you're asking newcomers to this thread, since this topic has obviously already come up. Well, for those of you more recently joining us, I've already said my piece about that scene, and I'll quote myself here:

On 6/5/2020 at 12:22 PM, Alastor15243 said:

Time for... that scene.

The one we all know is coming, because it's Eirika's most infamous moment as a character.

The moment Fomortiis takes on Lyon's personality and tricks Eirika into just flat-out giving him the Sacred Stone, thinking he can use it to save himself.

What I find interesting is that Ephraim warns Eirika not to go off on her own, despite Ephraim doing the same thing and nobody warning him that it would pretty much be an equally stupid idea.

Also, again, having played both simultaneously, the things you just naturally assume playing Eirika mode are kind of exposed as bizarre. Like, with no changes to dialogue whatsoever, the game just expects you to assume that the sibling you're playing as is the one who's holding the stone of Renais. The decision of who should hold on to it isn't mentioned or foreshadowed beforehand, they just have it, and you find out in passing, just in time for it to wind up in Fomortiis's hands.

First thing that sticks out: Eirika calls out Lyon's name. A person she's been told on good authority is dead. She's not tricked into thinking her hopes were correct. Before so much as a single word from Lyon, just by appearing from a long distance away apparently wearing his non-demonic face, Eirika's absolutely convinced that L'arachel is wrong and that not only is Lyon still alive, but in spite of everything that happened last chapter, he's going to answer her when she calls, and it'll actually be him.

Despite the fact that Fomortiis used Lyon to trap her once before.

This is an extremely irrational, borderline hysterical emotional state the game is trying to sell to us, and while such a mental state is entirely plausible for a human being to be in under the circumstances, my issue here is that the game has done a very poor job of painting Eirika as a character who is capable of being that overwhelmed by her emotions. Between the fall of her castle, the death of her father, being attacked by the walking dead, and hearing rumors that her brother is going to be executed, they've had countless opportunities to establish Eirika as someone who doesn't make smart decisions while in extreme emotional distress. And in a sense, they kinda do in some of those cases, but they go about it entirely the wrong way. There have been times where she's made reckless, borderline suicidal decisions for entirely emotional reasons, but every time it happens, they write her speaking with a tone as if this is a decision she's come to after thorough logical consideration. Always calm. Always stoic.

Which doesn't scream “human nature” so much as it screams “badly-programmed robot”.

Crucially, they haven't really made any effort to make us feel her pain. To make us really, truly feel the reasons why she would risk anything, even gambling one of the last two hopes for humanity on a blatantly obvious trap, just for the tiniest glimmer of a chance to save her best friend.

Let me put it this way: Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood never do anything nearly this stupid, and yet if they had, there's a good chance I would have accepted it without any issue if it were tied to their grief. Because I felt that grief. Blazing Blade did a more than satisfactory job making the pain its characters suffered clear as day. Hell, even with the hardest and most reserved member of the team, Hector... when Oswin's refusal to talk even under threat of death makes Hector finally realize his brother isn't sick, he's dead... you can clearly feel his pain without him needing to shed a single tear.

And none of that was even to inform a fatal mistake they make later. They just did it because that's a natural part of making us relate to a character. Because it's good storytelling.

Hell, they did it so well that I didn't even notice I was wrong! There actually is a stupid, emotional decision one of those characters makes in FE7! Remember when Eliwood lashes out at Queen Hellene just when he's about to get his reward for retrieving the Fire Emblem? We don't give Eliwood shit for that because we feel Eliwood's anger, because we, just like Eliwood, know about all of the emotional turmoil and terror and tragedy, from Nino, from Jaffar, and from her own son, that she is infuriatingly ignorant of. And after all of the familial tragedy we've seen Eliwood go through, yeah, no shit Eliwood's gonna be pissed off watching a mother demonstrate total apathy and ignorance in the face of her son's near-assassination.

With Eirika? We have none of that. Because, again, and this is my number one issue with Eirika's character: She is a character ruled by emotions that we are not allowed to see.

And as I'm watching this conversation unfold, I could totally imagine Fomortiis's emotional manipulation working... on a better character.

Like, okay, here's one line that really showcases my issues here.

“Could the Sacred Stone really do that? Could it heal you?”

Note the choice of punctuation, which, combined with facial animations and the content of a character's lines, is our only window into Eirika's mindset at the moment given the level of tech involved, and the writers know it. And there's no ellipses. No exclamation points. No attempt to indicate she's crying, or desperate, as she listens to the idea of her being able to have Lyon back again. Nothing to indicate she's feeling anything other than complete, calm tranquility as she says those sentences. Nothing to keep this line from being consistent with the lines of a naive, gullible child who is completely heedless of the mortal peril she's in.

“You only pretended to be Lyon... You deceived me.”

YES, EIRIKA, HE DECEIVED YOU. JUST LIKE HE FUCKING TRIED TO DO LAST CHAPTER BEFORE THE SMALL SCRAP OF LYON THAT REMAINED FOUGHT BACK AGAINST BEING USED FOR THAT. HE DID IT AGAIN. WHY ARE YOU FUCKING SURPRISED TO HEAR THIS!?

...And then Fomortiis say he “[loves] how humans look when they're drowning in despair”, and... yeah, Fomortiis, glad you at least can enjoy the emotional drama of this truly expressive character.

Well, at least they gave her a “dead-eyed” sprite too, but... really, did you have to reserve an entire alternate facial expression just for this one scene? Just giving her a sad face for use outside of this one singular specific moment would have gone miles to help her character. Maybe it could even help re-contextualize some of her lines that read as extremely neutral? I dunno, it's a thought.

And then we get what is supposed to be the “payoff” of Eirika's emotional constipation, where Ephraim says she's finally allowed to cry. And apparently that good, long, completely offscreen crying session was a lot of help, because literally immediately after that scene transition, suddenly she's back to her neutral wide-eyed sprite again and talking in a completely detached manner about pursuing Lyon.

...Yeah, to the Eirika fans who are still reading this, first of all, thank you, and second of all, I'm sorry to say I have not been convinced. I don't think there's anything she'll be able to do after this scene to redeem herself in my eyes. I stand by what I said before. Byleth is the only main character in the series I dislike more than her.

 

[Icelerate]

36 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I can only assume you're asking newcomers to this thread, since this topic has obviously already come up. Well, for those of you more recently joining us, I've already said my piece about that scene, and I'll quote myself here:

 

It was actually to you because that post of yours doesn't really address my points at all. I'm arguing DK is smart, while you're arguing Eirika is dumb. Someone on Reddit tried to argue that the DK is dumb but didn't really address my points properly. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Icelerate

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

What do you guys think about Demon King's manipulation of Eirika? 

Given that I literally just mentioned how I find Sacred Stones unintentionally hilarious, you can probably guess my view. No matter what they were aiming for, if my reaction to that moment (and several other moments) on my first time playing through the game was just to burst out laughing, then that's a sign that the writing has failed. The overall quality of the writing just wasn't very good, probably due to the game being rushed and having corners cut, and didn't make me care about much of anything in the story. I'm not even going to say that Eirika is dumb; I'm saying that I don't care enough to analyse whether she's dumb or not.

Obviously, you do care enough about the story to want to analyse it, and I have no desire to take that away from you so I'll leave further discussion to people who do care, but I felt as if I had to say something given that I'd just mentioned Sacred Stones in the post above yours.

[Alastor15243]

46 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

It was actually to you because that post of yours doesn't really address my points at all. I'm arguing DK is smart, while you're arguing Eirika is dumb. Someone on Reddit tried to argue that the DK is dumb but didn't really address my points properly. 

I am really not keen to get into this subject again while the memories are not as fresh in my mind. I don't mean to be rude, but I've said more than enough about both Eirika and the Demon King's behavior already, and the idea of re-hashing this doesn't sound fun at all, which is making me suspect that I may be in more of a need of a proper break from this project than I thought.

[NinjaMonkey]

23 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I could buy Makalov fighting for basically any cause whatsoever with the right chain of gambling debt shenanigans behind it. And as long as it's contextualized as fighting alongside Zelgius, I could maybe believe Marcia and Astrid too.

They all joined the Crimean army after PoR, so why the hell would they fight for Begnion?

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

What do you guys think about Demon King's manipulation of Eirika? 

It's not relevant to RD's plot, that's what I think.

Edited August 25, 2020 by NinjaMonkey

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

They all joined the Crimean army after PoR, so why the hell would they fight for Begnion?

That's the thing: They didn't. PoR's ending has them all returning to Begnion, funny enough. They were then next seen in Crimea with no explanation for why, say, Marcia quit the holy knights again and joined up with Elincia.

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...I just looked at the wo dao's stats, and realized it has less crit than a killing edge in this game, not more. Weird.

So it's a poor man's version of a weapon that was already nerfed. Whoopee.

23 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

They all joined the Crimean army after PoR, so why the hell would they fight for Begnion?

Don't Marcia, Makalov and Astrid all talk about going back to Begnion at the end of PoR? Because this leaves me with questions as to why they're in Crimea's army by the time Radiant Dawn rolls around. Only Makalov has a remotely reasonable explanation I can think of.

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Icelerate said:

It was actually to you because that post of yours doesn't really address my points at all. I'm arguing DK is smart, while you're arguing Eirika is dumb. Someone on Reddit tried to argue that the DK is dumb but didn't really address my points properly. 

I don't think it is showing him to be particularly smart or dumb, it is more showing that the DK is willing to put in effort to been intentionally cruel to humans. The Ephraim version makes it clear that he can easily restrain one of the twins well enough to steal the stone, and most of the psychological tricks he uses is just to fuck with their heads. What he did with Eirika is a lot more complex, and takes a lot more effort than simply luring her away, and there is a solid chance he could fail to talk the stone out of her, but as long as he lures her away he will still get the stone, so taking the extra effort isn't the stupidest thing in the world, especially if he is getting some other benefit out of it. The main benefit is that this method of taking the stone hurts Lyon and Eirika more, which I get the impression he enjoys. I do also remember Alastor's covering of SS pointing out how the DK seems to derive pleasure from the suffering of humans, and goes out of his way to inflict it even if it is petty. The DK has done the proverbially dumb act of tying a hand behind his back to make the taking of the stone crueler, but the Ephraim version shows he is at least smart enough to bring out the other hand if he has to.

[Icelerate]

Alastor, remember how you complained that Seth, Ephraim and Innes stole Eirika's chance to shine? I'm reading an alternative fan made rom hack that changes the way Eirika is written and they ended up giving her lines by taking from those three to make her more proactive, smarter and outgoing. But then the scene where she gives the sacred stone is terrible. 

[Alastor15243]

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Alastor, remember how you complained that Seth, Ephraim and Innes stole Eirika's chance to shine? I'm reading an alternative fan made rom hack that changes the way Eirika is written and they ended up giving her lines by taking from those three to make her more proactive, smarter and outgoing. But then the scene where she gives the sacred stone is terrible. 

Just read it. I'd have to read the rest of the hack to properly judge given how much has clearly been changed, but I am inclined to agree that it's still pretty damn bad.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

Radiant Dawn Day 24: Chapter 3-6

I like the little effect where they have the Daein capital's flashing dot turn from green to red when the narrator talks about Pelleas ordering Micaiah to side with Begnion.

...Okay, so... what's going on here? According to Micaiah, Daein is going to “attack the Laguz Alliance at the Ribahn River”. But like... we've crossed back over the Ribahn already. At least the part that Daein's anywhere near. We were in Seliora castle last map, the castle we took over to the west of the Ribahn. Even if the river to the southwest of us is also the Ribahn, Daein is hardly in an ideal position to intercept the LA there. Especially given the massive mountain wall between them and Seliora Castle.

Oh, and another note: I just realized the implications of the LA having been given only three days to evacuate the country. That's another indication that Tellius is quite small, making the 30 day boat ride and the year long war quite questionable. Y'know, sometimes I wish I could have this sort of grotesquely cavalier attitude towards the fabric of space and time. It would make mustering the courage to sit down and write shit so much easier.

Oh my god, this scene feels so weird. Micaiah just out of nowhere talks about all the Daein soldiers being excited to kill laguz, that they've been promised bounties, and that it's raised morale... as if that's a good thing, which horrifies Sothe and causes him to pressure her into saying what she really thinks, and... that line just feels so out of place and bizarre. I don't get why she said it.

...On the plus side, stalling on these conversations for so long is showing me parts of the music behind it that I don't remember hearing before in my life, and I like it. The music that starts playing after Micaiah opens up to Sothe especially. I'm reminded of the latter part of the map theme for the first few Dawn Brigade chapters, the part with that harpsichord-esque instrument playing.

Okay, one thing I will say for this scene is that at the moment, before we know the reasons behind Pelleas's actions, Micaiah's... basically a Camus, and arguably one of the more sympathetic ones. She knows she's being forced into an idiotic and morally indefensible war (meaning that that's three branded characters forced to make the best of idiotic orders from their countries' leaders, funny enough), but after fighting so hard to liberate her country, she knows that this is all she can do to keep this war from destroying her still-fragile country yet again. She can't stop Pelleas (well, she probably could, but it would involve using her reputation as Priestess of Dawn to launch a civil war against him like Izuka accused her of, which would be disastrous even before the reveal of the blood pact), so all she can do is make sure his stupidity doesn't doom them all. It's... an interesting angle for a Camus, honestly. You can argue some of les Camus (I still don't know how the fuck you're supposed to say the plural of a french name where the S is silent) have similar motivations of just trying to protect their country, but the difference here is that Daein has been fragile from the outset, while most merely become so by the time you fight their Camus due to being on the losing side of a continuous war. This is a war that Micaiah is getting into because even in the beginning, without her help this war could destroy her home at any moment.

And now we've got five three star info conversations, three of which were added in the western releases for some reason. Not complaining though, since it gives Edward, Leonardo and Nolan personal weapons, and Nolan at least could really use one. But we also get a master crown and brave axe, and a very pissed off Jill, for understandable reasons. Sorry Jill, you and Zihark are gonna stay here where you're needed.

So, Edward's just all “I believe in you and what you want for Daein, so you don't need to worry about justifying this war to me”, which... I just realized that this wouldn't have been in the Japanese version, and yet it feels pretty believable to me.

Leonardo: Honestly, this bow is beyond my skill. It was crafted for better hands than mine.

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE DEVS IN BACK!

Anyway, after getting Tarvos for Nolan, that's it for info conversations, so now it's time to prepare and oh thank fucking goodness, Zihark and Nolan can reach their B support.

Aran and Jill can also reach C, which isn't anywhere near as important, but still useful.

Anyway, Tarvos is utterly busted, but yet again I have to laugh at the madman who designed weapon stats, because yet again the axe is objectively better than the sword. Tarvos has better might and hit than Caladbolg.

So I got some nice staves from the bargain section, namely torch and physic, which are going on Laura and Micaiah respectively. I also put beastfoe on Aran to compensate for his inability to double.

We're going to be fighting nothing but laguz here I'm pretty sure, so 1-2 range weapons won't be that important except to avoid counter-attacks. So I'll focus mostly on stocking units with powerful melee weapons.

...Alright, I think we're set.

...Yeah, Ranulf and Skrimir are trying to escape by crossing the Ribahn River, and apparently Daein is waiting... on the other side...?

...Wait, Skrimir is... acting as if this is the same part of the river that Soren led them to victory across...

...Okay, so, I found a better map of Begnion that's actually labeled, and it seems I was mistaken. Seliora is on the eastern side of the river. It's Telgam that's on the western side. I forgot they seized another castle after crossing the river, and now they're retreating back in the direction of Telgam on their way back to Gallia.

Okay, that makes sense, now the only question is when the fuck Daein was called to assist, and how they got over those fucking mountains before the LA could make it across a river.

Anyway, it looks like Skrimir is strong enough to at least be talking now, though it's unclear if he's walking under his own power or if someone is carrying him. But while his body seems to be on the way to recovery, his ego appears to be utterly shattered. He sounds borderline suicidal, even outright saying he wishes he had been killed by Zelgius rather than forced to live with this shame.

Yeah, actually, it's pretty cool how they show it mostly from the laguz side to see their mounting horror as a tiny little clue reaches Lyre's nose, which makes Ranulf realize they're under attack. I'm kinda reminded of that scene in the Matrix where Neo happens to notice a bit of deja vu and everyone in the group stops dead and presses him for information.

And now it's our turn, and... holy shit, we're allowed to bring our entire army. That always makes me uncomfortable, like the game is leaving no room for spares. And it really isn't, given that we don't get any new recruits for the Dawn Brigade, or... shit, does anyone get new recruits from now on in Part 3, ignoring the people you can take from the Dawn Brigade? But it's way worse for the Dawn Brigade due to how strapped they are for good units in the first place.

But anyway, not much more I can do to prepare aside from put Laura up front so that she can illuminate stuff with her torch staff's passive before she even moves, and then... let's go.

Aran is nearly one-shotting these fuckers with a steel greatlance and beastfoe, and that's with tigers. The cats will go down in a single hit as long as he can connect, probably even if I use the far-more-accurate stabbity.

Okay, so, context for people who don't know or don't remember: this is a map where we basically have to defeat 45 of the Gallian soldiers crossing the Ribahn River at night. They're incredibly powerful, so we have to take advantage of terrain, tactics, torches, and earth affinity dodgetanking to survive.

Yeah, and so when I end my first turn, we get a scene where Lethe orders everyone to retreat and they're all “fuck you, we're Gallian! We'd all rather die than be cowards!”, and Lethe just... throws her hands up and says “Fine, we'll all die fighting here.”. And I seem to remember Ranulf coming in later and being all “THE FUCK ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING!? LETHE, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO TALK SENSE INTO THESE GUYS!”

...Oh wow, that's a fascinating effect. The red light of the “enemy phase” graphic actually lit up the fog of war behind it.

I'm keeping the yellow allies in the corner out of the way until I need them. The physic bishop will be really handy, but I don't need him until somebody needs healing, so...

Yep, here comes Ranulf, yelling at Lethe. But then Lethe says:

“I know that retreat is the sane course of action, Ranulf. But if we run now, we'd lose the values we hold dearest in our hearts!”

...Yep, this game pretty handily demonstrates why the laguz keep losing wars.

But Ranulf then says:

“...Fine, Lethe. As long as it's your decision, not someone else's. I'll join the others in the back and watch over Skrimir. We're counting on you!”

And... wow. Wow. Even Ranulf is giving up. Like, I wanna know what's going through his head right now, because his mind has to be on fire. He's just lost, he's forced to retreat back to his homeland, and now countless soldiers are all going to die because of their own stubborn pride, and he's just come to the realization that keeping them from doing it is all but impossible. He just gave up on Lethe, his second-in-command, and he's walking away to leave her to her own devices. He has to be horrified for the future of his people. There has to be a good chance he thinks he's not going to live to see sunrise! Oh, what I would give to get a look inside this guy's head...

...But moving on...

Man, we're gaining so much experience, which is... an issue, because Aran's already capped defense. He's still got skill and strength to cap before he really needs bonus exp, but those won't be far behind. Transformed laguz are just giving so much.

...According to her generic support with Aran, Jill is “enjoying [herself]”.

Yeah, really, what the fuck can I say to that?

Zihark's capped speed, meaning he's not long for being viable for combat experience. Pity, because he's the one I put paragon on. Alright, I'll have to tag Nolan in. Hopefully resolve and earth affinity will be able to keep him dodgy enough to stay alive.

...

...Okay, this has started to become comical. People just keep coming in and going “What the fuck is everyone doing!?” First Lethe, then Ranulf, and now Lyre. But this time Lethe just yells at her to get back to position and Lyre leaves in a bratty huff, and... yeah, this... ugh. This scene wasn't as compelling as it could have been.

The Black Knight shows up, but I don't think I'll be needing him. This fight is more manageable than I remember. The fear of the fog of war is mitigated by all of the enemies being the same type and slowed down significantly by the terrain, making it surprisingly manageable. This is actually a pretty nice concept for an ironmannable fog of war chapter.

I've almost exclusively been using Jill and Aran to the north and Nolan and Zihark to the east, and it's been working fairly well. All of them have been getting some pretty nice experience too. Some of these guys barely promoted at the end of last part, and yet some of them are halfway to third tier!

Laura's unfortunately woefully left behind though. Fighting laguz doesn't really help healers much.

Oh yeah, also, Volug isn't locked in beast form anymore. Now he has the option to half-shift, but his half-shifted stats really don't cut it anymore. If you're gonna use him at all, you should just wait until he transforms and can be remotely useful.

Jill's been getting passable level up quantities, but her strength is still amazingly screwed. She has transfer bonuses and an energy drop, and she's only one ahead of what her averages would be without that. Her defense is only one behind what it should be given her boosters though, so that's not so bad. Hopefully she'll have a chance to sort this out with bonus exp, but it's concerning that all but basically one of the five units here that I'll be actually using long-term wants bonus experience.

Hopefully paragon helps with bonus exp, but I'll have to check.

For some reason the AI seems to make every single cat want to attack Aran despite him being able to one-shot them and take basically no damage.

Alright, map's over. Wow, that was way less of a nightmare than I remember. Fuck, if I hadn't gotten that game over in Part 2, I think I'd be able to ironman this. Alas, this isn't an ironman anymore.

And Micaiah's just utterly shocked at how pointless this is, and how the Gallian soldiers are just charging into them no matter how many they kill, and she proposes a ceasefire.

...Well, no, more like she demands a surrender, which as you can probably guess, the Gallian army doesn't take well to. They have a bit of banter, Skrimir manages to scare the shit out of some people with his roar in the back, and the Daein army backs off. I like this scene. It's interesting having two playable armies square off like this. It's always cool seeing characters you've grown to like suddenly become the antagonists due to you fighting for another side. That's part of what I love so much about Der Langrisser, and why I wish it were actually a good game.

But anyway, we get a talk with Tauroneo and... we're done. We got a nice bit of bonus experience, putting us at... okay, I nearly misread this due to being a Danganronpa fan, but... 11307 bonus experience.

Hopefully that'll be enough.

Anyway, I liked this map a lot better than I remembered liking it! It's far more manageable than I remembered it being, and it's got a lot of elements that make it probably one of the better fog of war maps in principle. Definitely in this game, to be sure.

But we'll be back with the Greil Mercenaries next time.

Stay safe, everyone!

Edited August 26, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Icelerate]

17 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You can argue some of les Camus (I still don't know how the fuck you're supposed to say the plural of a french name where the S is silent) have similar motivations of just trying to protect their country, but the difference here is that Daein has been fragile from the outset, while most merely become so by the time you fight their Camus due to being on the losing side of a continuous war. This is a war that Micaiah is getting into because even in the beginning, without her help this war could destroy her home at any moment.

 

That's correct, Micaiah in chapter 3-7 in a battle conversation with Reyson says the exact same thing. You're going to have to look these conversations up though as I doubt you can get them, especially the heron ones. 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

You can argue some of les Camus (I still don't know how the fuck you're supposed to say the plural of a french name where the S is silent) have similar motivations of just trying to protect their country, but the difference here is that Daein has been fragile from the outset, while most merely become so by the time you fight their Camus due to being on the losing side of a continuous war. This is a war that Micaiah is getting into because even in the beginning, without her help this war could destroy her home at any moment.

 

Haha! Les Camus is catching on!

I'd also say most of all that also applies to Eldigan, who seems to get a lot of flack as a Camus. Really there's nothing he could do except launch a civil war while Grannvale has already conquered half his country. It's either that or abandon his nation entirely and run away. the only difference is Micaiah is a protagnoist who's actions we've viewed from her perspective up until this point, and as a person Pelleas is much less of an ass than Chagall. They're both ordering more or less the same things though (and Chagall's war in Chapter 3 is far more sensible than Daein getting involved with the Laguz alliance).

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

And now we've got five three star info conversations, three of which were added in the western releases for some reason. Not complaining though, since it gives Edward, Leonardo and Nolan personal weapons, and Nolan at least could really use one. But we also get a master crown and brave axe, and a very pissed off Jill, for understandable reasons. Sorry Jill, you and Zihark are gonna stay here where you're needed.

 

Wait, those convos with the Dawn Brigade don't exist in the original version? Wow, they gut the script yet they still give us this. What a confusing localisation. This also makes me curious as to whether Edward, Nolan and Leo will get their personal weapons in Heroes. It might very well be that the Japanese developers don't know about them or have forgotten entirely.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And now it's our turn, and... holy shit, we're allowed to bring our entire army. That always makes me uncomfortable, like the game is leaving no room for spares. And it really isn't, given that we don't get any new recruits for the Dawn Brigade, or... shit, does anyone get new recruits from now on in Part 3, ignoring the people you can take from the Dawn Brigade? But it's way worse for the Dawn Brigade due to how strapped they are for good units in the first place.

You get Sigrun and Tanith later, as well as Janaff and Ulki. Anyway, I tend to underdeploy on this map because anyone who hasn't made it to second tier by this point is more likely than not going to drag me down.

Also, I don't think I got an answer as to this; is this on a fresh file, or did you pick one that had already beaten the game?

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

You get Sigrun and Tanith later, as well as Janaff and Ulki. Anyway, I tend to underdeploy on this map because anyone who hasn't made it to second tier by this point is more likely than not going to drag me down.

Also, I don't think I got an answer as to this; is this on a fresh file, or did you pick one that had already beaten the game?

The Crimeian Royal Knights also join from the bridge chapter onwards I'm like 90% sure.

 

Also if Lethe's dead in this chapter we get a stand in Laguz calleld Kezhda who is never mentioned or seen again (even though he canonically doesn't even die should you kill him)

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Kezhda

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Anyway, I tend to underdeploy on this map because anyone who hasn't made it to second tier by this point is more likely than not going to drag me down.

I figure: hey, I'm not resetting for them, so why not not bring some extra bodies with me for rescue dropping or shoving or trading? Turned out to be useful at least once.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Also if Lethe's dead in this chapter we get a stand in Laguz calleld Kezhda who is never mentioned or seen again (even though he canonically doesn't even die should you kill him)

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Kezhda

Yep, so I've heard. Unfortunately Serenes doesn't have the script for this chapter.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I'd also say most of all that also applies to Eldigan, who seems to get a lot of flack as a Camus. Really there's nothing he could do except launch a civil war while Grannvale has already conquered half his country. It's either that or abandon his nation entirely and run away. the only difference is Micaiah is a protagnoist who's actions we've viewed from her perspective up until this point, and as a person Pelleas is much less of an ass than Chagall. They're both ordering more or less the same things though (and Chagall's war in Chapter 3 is far more sensible than Daein getting involved with the Laguz alliance).

Pelleas also didn't lock Micaiah up or send rapey assholes after Sothe and the village he was in at the time, and the Laguz Alliance didn't save him from them, but I do agree that while he could have been better written in how he responded to Sigurd's actions, Eldigan didn't have all that many options for what to do in Chapter 3.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yep, so I've heard. Unfortunately Serenes doesn't have the script for this chapter.

 

Gamefaqs has the script. 

OT: I think Eldigan is an underrated camus. I personally enjoyed the Augustria arc quite a bit. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh my god, this scene feels so weird. Micaiah just out of nowhere talks about all the Daein soldiers being excited to kill laguz, that they've been promised bounties, and that it's raised morale... as if that's a good thing, which horrifies Sothe and causes him to pressure her into saying what she really thinks, and... that line just feels so out of place and bizarre. I don't get why she said it.

Morbid silver lining.

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Anyway, it looks like Skrimir is strong enough to at least be talking now, though it's unclear if he's walking under his own power or if someone is carrying him. But while his body seems to be on the way to recovery, his ego appears to be utterly shattered. He sounds borderline suicidal, even outright saying he wishes he had been killed by Zelgius rather than forced to live with this shame.

Toxic pride culture.

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...According to her generic support with Aran, Jill is “enjoying [herself]”.

Yeah, really, what the fuck can I say to that?

Backsliding.

11 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Aran is nearly one-shotting these fuckers with a steel greatlance and beastfoe, and that's with tigers. The cats will go down in a single hit as long as he can connect, probably even if I use the far-more-accurate stabbity.

Beastfoe stronk. I usually give it to Nolan. Still, not the biggest fan of making it a hidden item 6 chapters ago, when it has so big an effect on this chapter's, and 3-13's, difficulty.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Also if Lethe's dead in this chapter we get a stand in Laguz calleld Kezhda who is never mentioned or seen again (even though he canonically doesn't even die should you kill him)

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Kezhda

Kezdha is cool, he's the only black cat. If he crosses your path, you're cursed with the bad luck of having already let Lethe die.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Kezdha is cool, he's the only black cat. If he crosses your path, you're cursed with the bad luck of having already let Lethe die.

You say that as if it's some kind of loss.

[Eltosian Kadath]

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Hopefully that'll be enough.

Anyway, I liked this map a lot better than I remembered liking it! It's far more manageable than I remembered it being, and it's got a lot of elements that make it probably one of the better fog of war maps in principle. Definitely in this game, to be sure.

This map is only really bad on blind/first playthroughs, once you know it is coming you can prepare for it in part 1 and Path of Radiance in ways that make it more manageable.

[Alastor15243]

6 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Gamefaqs has the script. 

OT: I think Eldigan is an underrated camus. I personally enjoyed the Augustria arc quite a bit. 

Thanks.

I didn't receive him very well due to just how much garbage he let slide from Shagall, even when it gets his castle invaded and his sister nearly killed and possibly raped, and even when Sigurd is the one who saved her and all of his citizens.

[Alastor15243]

Radiant Dawn Day 25: Chapter 3-7

Alright, so, I've decided that after this update, I'll be taking tomorrow and the next week off. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that while I still enjoy playing the games, the writeup has begun to feel like something of a chore the more narrative-intensive the series has gotten, and I need to take some time to take a step back and see if that helps my enthusiasm. I've caught myself skimping on mentioning things or trying to discuss topics simply because I didn't want to spend more time writing and proofreading than I already had, and that's obviously not good for this. So I'm gonna step back, do some other stuff, see if that helps.

With that said, let's get moving.

Okay, so, I was wrong a while back when I mentioned that there's a smoky effect specifically at the edge of the map. For some reason I just didn't see it before, but the smoky effect is just a general border thing on all four sides of the screen at all times during narration, not specifically on the outer limits of the Tellius world map. I know I checked for that last time, but for some reason I didn't see anything on the other edges.

Okay, so, the narrator says that Daein is blocking their “only avenue of retreat”, but like... that river's pretty damned long, and I don't remember them saying anything about how it's only crossable at one point. Can't they just pick a different direction the Daein army isn't guarding?

Weirdly, Skrimir's disdain for thinking too hard actually allows him to make a good point when everyone's wondering why the hell Daein is helping Begnion out:

Skrimir: Why does no matter. We are running out of time. We must deal with this quickly, if we are to get home.

Alright, Ranulf seems to confirm that yes, only one part of the Ribahn is known to be fordable and Soren says they can't afford to look for another place due to their timetable, so, yeah, disregard my nitpick earlier.

Ah yes, and this is the thing I mentioned earlier, where Soren describes Micaiah basically as a dangerous cult leader.

Soren: She was the hero of the recent Daein uprising. Micaiah is her name, if I recall correctly. Supposedly she has performed miracles and turned many losing battles into victories. An interesting figure.

Ranulf: Miracles? I'm finding that a bit hard to swallow. Are you sure about that?

Soren: Who knows? Personally, I doubt it. All I know is that the Daein army believes in her miracles, which makes her dangerous. This Maiden of Dawn is supposed to be the savior of Daein, whose miraculous powers freed their people from tyranny. In other words, her followers are fanatics who see her as a goddess. She will make a formidable enemy.

I like this, and it makes it clear Micaiah wasn't intended to be a universally-beloved Sue. The fanatical devotion she inspires in her own country was always intended to be seen as creepy and bizarre by everyone else.

That said, I have a big complaint about what happens next. They suggest using a decoy force, and Ranulf says that the same tactic won't work twice, and Soren points out that it's highly likely Begnion hasn't deigned to share any information about the Laguz Alliance's past tactics with Daein, meaning the same trick likely would. Then this happens:

Ranulf: You might have a point there. I went scouting after the fog cleared, and their forces looked really unprepared to fight us. They had no ballistae, and they hadn't fielded many fire mages. It felt like they didn't know a thing about fighting laguz.

And that... I'm sorry, no. A country as aggressively racist as Daein, a country that regularly enacts laguz hunts for sport and training, should know a great many things about fighting laguz. Daein should be the most knowledgeable laguz hunters on the continent, and they should not need Begnion to tell them basic information about the laguz's weaknesses.

But anyway...

...We're at base, and let's check out this info conversation, yet another three star, where Ranulf is handing out a satori sign, an item that lets laguz learn their occult skill at level 30 or higher. And in this conversation, Lyre and Kyza argue over who should get it, and... I find it interesting how incredibly uptight Kyza is, given that it's practically unheard of in laguz if memory serves. Only the herons come close to how he behaves.

But also, Lyre whines that she didn't get it despite wearing her “prettiest collar”, making me wonder yet again about why the fuck collars are a fashion trend among Gallian women. As I said, I can't imagine that some girl in Gallia saw some beorc's pet cats and went “Hey, those symbols of being the subservient pets of our historic oppressors would look super cute on me!”

Oh, it's not a satori sign, it's a howl scroll. I see.

Anyway, I gave Soren a few more levels of bonus exp, and he's on track to cap literally everything but luck. I would be delighted about that if his caps weren't so abysmal all-around.

Ike and Oscar reach an A support, which means that basically nothing can hope to kill them ever again until maybe the endgame.

Mist appears to have basically no hope of catching up in level without shittons of bonus exp that I currently cannot spare. Once Soren promotes though, or at least once he caps every non-luck stat, I'll start working to get her to valkyrie.

Rest of my preparations weren't that notable. Except that for the hell of it, I gave Mia disarm, in the hopes that it lets Heather steal some shit, maybe some nice staves from straggler healers. Makes more sense to give it to someone with more skill and more chances to proc it while doing less damage. So I gave her some wind swords and a bronze sword while I was at it, since this is almost entirely what I'll be using her for. I've heard she can actually be good though, and is a good candidate for bonus experience, but that's not what I did with her, and I'm not changing course now. It's a bit late for that.

Alright, so, we're here, and we get a scene where Micaiah asks Sothe about Ike, and when Sothe is surprised by this, she clarifies she wants to know what kind of man she's going to be fighting against. And all I can say is this: If Sothe's really been as obnoxiously talkative about Ike as she claims, then she has to have deliberately tuned Sothe out basically from the moment he started talking about him, long before it could have conceivably gotten annoying, if this is information she doesn't already know.

Okay, so, I just looked up to confirm, and it might be a good thing that this isn't ironman anymore, because holy shit, these requirements for the secret ending are pretty nasty. Not only do I have to have Ike fight the Black Knight, but I have to have Soren fight Micaiah, and I have to do it all in twelve turns.

...Damn it, now I wish I had put Fiona's savior scroll on Ilyana so that she could give it to Haar. That would definitely give me more options here.

But thankfully, there does seem to be a way. The Black Knight and Micaiah might be close, but their movement ranges are not the same, and I can easily have Soren lure both Sothe and Micaiah out to fight him, then have Ike fight the Black Knight on the final turn.

There are a handful of enemies I might struggle with, but mostly I just wanna kill them quickly so they can't waste their nice weapons I had to give them so they could handle last chapter.

I'll be rushing in with Ike, Oscar and Haar, mostly the latter two since Ike can't gain experience, just to get to the end quickly in case something goes wrong. If I have extra time I'd rather not leave fighting the Black Knight to the absolute last turn of the map, in case he doesn't actually aggro.

Damn it, yet again, the info tag when you move your cursor over a unit definitely makes it annoying to judge enemy ranges in the places the tag covers. Why can't they just have it in a corner or something?

...So looks like Oscar and other mounted units literally can't cross the water at all. That's... gonna be a problem. Looks like Ike and Haar will have to do the brunt of the dirty work getting to the southwest “island”.

I like how they went to the trouble of giving people like Zihark conversations with Ike. I wonder how many “war buddies forced to fight” conversations are in this chapter. I'm sure Haar has one with Jill. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can recruit her (though I most certainly will not).

Zihark was just taken out. I was surprised at how easily Soren and Ike were able to hit him. They both had 100% hit rates on him.

So, Haar just activated stun for the first time, and I have to ask: who the fuck thought status effects were a good idea to put on these mastery skills? Why put an effect on a mastery attack that is only useful if the enemy survives? If a unit is tier three and isn't killing an opponent with triple damage, then why would we be using them?

Anyway, just as I was starting to get worried that maybe bronze weapons can't activate special skills in addition to crits, I manage to proc disarm on one of the two bishops I left alive and nab a physic staff. And then right after that, I got the second on the next turn! We just got 23 physic uses!

...But I'm concerned that getting both the extra Soren scene and Lehran might be impossible. I'm gonna take some drastic measures to see if I can get rid of the units around Micaiah, see if she moves.

Seeing the Dawn Brigade fight against the Greil Mercenaries, it's kind of comical how outclassed they are. They can't even lay a scratch on my guys. And just as I say this:

Leonardo: We're totally outclassed in this battle. This is insane. Micaiah, I'm sorry. I have to turn back for now...

...Okay, so it seems like Micaiah and Sothe just won't move, meaning I have to confirm if the Black Knight will move and bait him in another direction with Ike. If so, I think I can do this, provided the reinforcements stop in time. If they don't, then the best I can do is have Ike fight the Black Knight to get Lehran later.

…

…

…

…

I totally forgot that Nolan had resolve, and I had Ike fight him, and... Nolan doubled and killed him.

...Ugh.

...Yeah, even setting that aside, I'm starting to think the requirements to get this bonus content are a bit ridiculous, given how long chapters take and how much is left up to chance at the very, very end (since BK could very easily proc eclipse and end things right there). And the reinforcements showed literally no signs of letting up. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have to know exactly which of that group of enemies at the end at the end do and don't move, and I'm gonna have to rush in with that knowledge and pull off a ridiculously ballsy strategy.

...A strategy I do not think I can come up with today.

...Damn it, this seems like a really shitty way to end things before my break, doesn't it?

...Yeah, sorry guys. If there's anything minor you'd like me to do on my week off, something that doesn't involve major write-ups, don't hesitate to ask.

Stay safe, everyone.

[Icelerate]

42 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Ranulf: You might have a point there. I went scouting after the fog cleared, and their forces looked really unprepared to fight us. They had no ballistae, and they hadn't fielded many fire mages. It felt like they didn't know a thing about fighting laguz.

 

There are more logical reasons for not having many fire mages and ballistae than the Daein army not knowing anything about laguz weaknesses. They could have used the reason that the Daein army isn't as well equipped as Begnion's due to losing the war and the brutal foreign occupation. 

Quote

...Yeah, even setting that aside, I'm starting to think the requirements to get this bonus content are a bit ridiculous, given how long chapters take and how much is left up to chance at the very, very end (since BK could very easily proc eclipse and end things right there). And the reinforcements showed literally no signs of letting up. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have to know exactly which of that group of enemies at the end at the end do and don't move, and I'm gonna have to rush in with that knowledge and pull off a ridiculously ballsy strategy.

...A strategy I do not think I can come up with today.

...Damn it, this seems like a really shitty way to end things before my break, doesn't it?

I think you should take a break but I did want you to finish the whole Gallian retreat before it considering part 3 can be divided into four phases and you're currently in the middle of the second phase so taking a break in the middle of a narrative phase can be a bit jarring. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Ranulf: You might have a point there. I went scouting after the fog cleared, and their forces looked really unprepared to fight us. They had no ballistae, and they hadn't fielded many fire mages. It felt like they didn't know a thing about fighting laguz.

And that... I'm sorry, no. A country as aggressively racist as Daein, a country that regularly enacts laguz hunts for sport and training, should know a great many things about fighting laguz. Daein should be the most knowledgeable laguz hunters on the continent, and they should not need Begnion to tell them basic information about the laguz's weaknesses.

Daein is the only Beorc country which shares no borders with a Laguz nation, and even in Path of Radiance, in the two chapters that take place in Gallia proper there are a total of 3 fire mages, and 0 ballista present (and the map that takes place on the Gallian border has none). Despite all their bluster I think Daein was never really prepared to deal with Laguz, perhaps assuming some racist philosophy that the beasts were inferior to Beorc.

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Okay, so, I just looked up to confirm, and it might be a good thing that this isn't ironman anymore, because holy shit, these requirements for the secret ending are pretty nasty. Not only do I have to have Ike fight the Black Knight, but I have to have Soren fight Micaiah, and I have to do it all in twelve turns.

I think you already missed the one needing Double A supports with Soren. Which reminds me I need to do what is technically a second playthrough, as all three of the runs I did were on "different" Wiis (had to replace one, and the most recent run was on a wii that had its system transferred to a wiiU)

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...So looks like Oscar and other mounted units literally can't cross the water at all. That's... gonna be a problem. Looks like Ike and Haar will have to do the brunt of the dirty work getting to the southwest “island”.

So that is two maps in part 3 where a significant portion of the map is cut off from any cavalry from reaching. That feels like a bit of bad map design in a game that has no dismounting.

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

I totally forgot that Nolan had resolve, and I had Ike fight him, and... Nolan doubled and killed him.

...Ugh.

Oh wow, I wasn't expecting that...Nolan isn't even one of your most trained units on the Dawn Brigade...

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Yeah, even setting that aside, I'm starting to think the requirements to get this bonus content are a bit ridiculous, given how long chapters take and how much is left up to chance at the very, very end (since BK could very easily proc eclipse and end things right there). And the reinforcements showed literally no signs of letting up. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have to know exactly which of that group of enemies at the end at the end do and don't move, and I'm gonna have to rush in with that knowledge and pull off a ridiculously ballsy strategy.

Two helpful pieces of advice for dealing with the Black Knight, first he starts moving unprovoked on turn 10, and second you can use one of the magic cards to attack him without receiving a counter attack (the card items are really weird and used so rarely that it was worth mentioning).

[Alastor15243]

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Oh wow, I wasn't expecting that...Nolan isn't even one of your most trained units on the Dawn Brigade...

Actually, he is. I've been training Aran, Jill, Nolan and Zihark mostly.

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Daein is the only Beorc country which shares no borders with a Laguz nation, and even in Path of Radiance, in the two chapters that take place in Gallia proper there are a total of 3 fire mages, and 0 ballista present (and the map that takes place on the Gallian border has none). Despite all their bluster I think Daein was never really prepared to deal with Laguz, perhaps assuming some racist philosophy that the beasts were inferior to Beorc.

But then why would Begnion know better? It's not any better geographically connected to Gallia aside from a means they didn't know about. They haven't been to war with Gallia basically since its founding. And while what you say about fire magic is correct as far as I remember, I did happen to notice a really cool detail that every single feral one reinforcement Daein deployed was accompanied by a beorc handler equipped with a laguz-slaying weapon, so I'd say that pretty clearly establishes they know their stuff.

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

So that is two maps in part 3 where a significant portion of the map is cut off from any cavalry from reaching. That feels like a bit of bad map design in a game that has no dismounting.

I'm inclined to agree, honestly.

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think you already missed the one needing Double A supports with Soren. Which reminds me I need to do what is technically a second playthrough, as all three of the runs I did were on "different" Wiis (had to replace one, and the most recent run was on a wii that had its system transferred to a wiiU)

Yeah, I did notice I missed that content, but it looks like I can still get Lehran and the Almedha talk in the epilogue.

  

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Two helpful pieces of advice for dealing with the Black Knight, first he starts moving unprovoked on turn 10, and second you can use one of the magic cards to attack him without receiving a counter attack (the card items are really weird and used so rarely that it was worth mentioning).

Thanks for the tip!

...Since this is entirely for storyline purposes, I'm tempted to use battle saves once I get to that point just to avoid having to do it over again and slow down the playthrough further.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Alastor15243