Best Classes of your Students (and Faculty) Encore: Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude

[Landmaster]

Bernadetta - Falcon Knight

Petra - Wyvern Lord

Sylvian - I'm voting Wyvern Lord because I heard it's good for him. I made him a Great Knight and he was pretty awful so I wouldn't do it again~

 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Appreciate the Falling Star tests, I was definitely wondering about that one myself.

5 hours ago, Etheus said:

Compare that to Paladin. Yes, you're taking advantage of his budding talent in reason, but Sylvain has a bad spell list and bad magic growth, so he can't take proper advantage of it. Dark Knight also loses 1 Movement and dilutes his growths. And requirements matter. That training spent on Reason could go into improving his Authority.

 

I would strongly disagree that Sylvain has a bad spell list. He gets Physic and a decent overall set of attack spells (Ragnarok is the best of the high-mt spells, for instance, due to its relatively modest weight), with the speed to use them (as was already shown, he has a much easier time doubling than many dedicated mages) and with Black Magic Avo on top of his solid defences he becomes one of toughest characters to take down, which is nice on a character who can counter almost everything assuming one of Thyrsus or Caduceus as his accessory.

He's fine as a Paladin, mind, but I don't feel he stands out quite as much that way.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Appreciate the Falling Star tests, I was definitely wondering about that one myself.

I would strongly disagree that Sylvain has a bad spell list. He gets Physic and a decent overall set of attack spells (Ragnarok is the best of the high-mt spells, for instance, due to its relatively modest weight), with the speed to use them (as was already shown, he has a much easier time doubling than many dedicated mages) and with Black Magic Avo on top of his solid defences he becomes one of toughest characters to take down, which is nice on a character who can counter almost everything assuming one of Thyrsus or Caduceus as his accessory.

He's fine as a Paladin, mind, but I don't feel he stands out quite as much that way.

Aren't Thyrsus and Caduceus locked to Gloucester and Cethlean?

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Sylvian - I'm voting Wyvern Lord because I heard it's good for him. I made him a Great Knight and he was pretty awful so I wouldn't do it again~

Bold: Was the result so bad that it made you want to do this?

Or this?

 

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Aren't Thyrsus and Caduceus locked to Gloucester and Cethlean?

Not really. Anyone can use them, but non-Crest users take damage.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Aren't Thyrsus and Caduceus locked to Gloucester and Cethlean?

Any crest-user can use them with no penalty. Matching crests give small bonuses: Cethlean increases the regen of Caduceus, while Gloucester allows Thyrsus' random damage-reduction effect. These effects are not why you use those relics; they should IMO always be given to two of your mages if you get them, since range expansion is huge.

As mentioned, non-crest users can use them too, but they also take 10 damage per combat with them equipped.

[ApocaLips]

Almost nothing that occurs during combat that would affect combat calculations will take effect during that combat in this game. The only exceptions I’ve seen are a unit dying (of course, won’t counterattack), or occurrences that only function if they take effect during the combat that they are triggered, eg crest activations. Things like Bernadetta’s personal will not take effect until combat resolves if she takes damage partway through. Likewise, ferdinands’ personal doesn’t drop until after combat ends - if the enemy is doubling and hits with the first attack, his avoid stays the same for the second attack. 

[LegendOfLoog]

14 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Any crest-user can use them with no penalty. Matching crests give small bonuses: Cethlean increases the regen of Caduceus, while Gloucester allows Thyrsus' random damage-reduction effect. These effects are not why you use those relics; they should IMO always be given to two of your mages if you get them, since range expansion is huge.

 As mentioned, non-crest users can use them too, but they also take 10 damage per combat with them equipped.

Thrysus does deal 10 damage, but all of the Saint weapons and equipment (Spear of Assal, Caduceus Staff, The Inexhaustible, etc.) do not require a crest to use them without taking damage. Hubert or Dorothea, for instance, can use the Caduceus staff without any recoil despite lacking a Crest.

Edited August 28, 2019 by LegendOfLoog

[Dark Holy Elf]

4 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Thrysus does deal 10 damage, but all of the Saint weapons and equipment (Spear of Assal, Caduceus Staff, The Inexhaustible, etc.) do not require a crest to use them without taking damage. Hubert or Dorothea, for instance, can use the Caduceus staff without any recoil despite lacking a Crest.

Ooh, good to know. That's a nice bonus for them for sure.

15 minutes ago, ApocaLips said:

Almost nothing that occurs during combat that would affect combat calculations will take effect during that combat in this game. The only exceptions I’ve seen are a unit dying (of course, won’t counterattack), or occurrences that only function if they take effect during the combat that they are triggered, eg crest activations. Things like Bernadetta’s personal will not take effect until combat resolves if she takes damage partway through. Likewise, ferdinands’ personal doesn’t drop until after combat ends - if the enemy is doubling and hits with the first attack, his avoid stays the same for the second attack. 

I was wondering about Petra's personal skill, since I have seen her critical when an enemy started above 50% but was below 50% on an extra attack when her listed crit was as low as 1, but that's not conclusive. It's a pretty bad personal skill regardless, sadly.

[ZeManaphy]

Bernadetta screams Bow Knight, since she already specializes in bows and has talent for riding and lances. 

Petra and Sylvain are one of the most versatile units in the game. Petra does excellently as Falcon Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Mortal Savant as an endgame class, the former two being the most valuable since she is the best suited for Flying Classes on the Black Eagles without recruiting other students.

Sylvain makes a solid Wyvern Lord and Great Knight which is already mentioned. But his Budding talent for reason should not be overlooked. He has a very impressive Spell list including Ragnarok and Seraphim. Makes a great Dark Knight. While he won’t be hitting as hard as Lysithea or Annette, his success in Riding and Lances makes grinding much easier Than the former two, and he takes physical hits so much better than most mages in the game.

[ApocaLips]

13 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I was wondering about Petra's personal skill, since I have seen her critical when an enemy started above 50% but was below 50% on an extra attack when her listed crit was as low as 1, but that's not conclusive. It's a pretty bad personal skill regardless, sadly.

I suppose it’s possible that for some of them, they take effect but the UI doesn’t update. Bernadetta’s passives certainly doesn’t take effect until combat ends, though. I suspect it works as I previously described, but more testing would be welcome. 

Agreed that Petra’s personal skill is bad. It is already trivial to finish off enemies at <50% hp. 

[ApocaLips]

39 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Petra does excellently as Falcon Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Mortal Savant as an endgame class

Mortal savant is terrible for Petra. Her reason list is wind and saggitae - yes, that’s really it - and she has no noteworthy faith spells. So there’s absolutely no reason to tank your speed growth by 30% (among other drawbacks) by going MS over swordmaster or assassin. MS is iffy even on units that may want the casting benefits, but for Petra it is certainly a no-go. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by ApocaLips

[freewaffles]

41 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Bernadetta screams Bow Knight, since she already specializes in bows and has talent for riding and lances. 

Petra does excellently as Falcon Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Mortal Savant as an endgame class.

Not sure why you would take Petra to a Mortal Savant.  If you are keeping her in an infantry class because you recruited her too late for flying/riding, just stay Assassin, Swordmaster, or even Warrior (since Sword/Axe is her default learning).  She only learns two Reason spells (neither of which are good), doesn't get physic, and has weakness to learning both Reason and Faith anyway.  Swordmaster has +1 strength and +3 speed, and free crit over MS for -1 mov/def/res; Assassin has +2 dex, +4 speed for -1 str; and Warrior +2 HP & Str and free crit for -1 move/dex/res.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by freewaffles

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

Petra does excellently as Falcon Knight, Wyvern Lord, and Mortal Savant as an endgame class

Why Mortal Savant??? That sounds like a definite no go for her between the lacking spell list and the fact that she's weak in both reason and faith anyway.

[timon]

I think it's just that @ZeManaphy probably thinks that master is straight up superior to advanced instead of sidegrades, so to be endgame viable a sword user would have to go MS.

And I mean, to be fair, the game doesn't do anything to explain or make you think otherwise (with the lv.30 requirement and multiple stats on A) until you get to the actual classes and see the stats and reqs for yourself.

But yeah, don't do MS, Assassin is just better.

Edited August 28, 2019 by timon

[Cysx]

32 minutes ago, freewaffles said:

She only learns two Reason spells (neither of which are good)

I mean, Wind is definitely not the worst spell she could have gotten on a hybrid class without x2 uses. Allows her to have good accuracy without having to run dual proficiencies, EP with it more comfortably, and 10 crit is 10 crit. But yeah.

[Elspeth]

I honestly don't think that you should ever be putting a physical unit on Mortal Savant. I'll argue up and down for putting certain spellcasters on it, but there's so little upside and so much downside to putting a physical sword user on Mortal Savant rather than just leaving them on Swordmaster/Assassin. I can't think of a single physical unit that I'd rather put on Mortal Savant than leave them on an advanced class.

The entire class is basically a trap. It looks so much like the "intended" master class for sword users, and so it tricks people into thinking it's what they should be doing with units like Felix and Petra, when it really just kinda screws them over.

[Jakkun]

4 minutes ago, Elspeth said:

I honestly don't think that you should ever be putting a physical unit on Mortal Savant. I'll argue up and down for putting certain spellcasters on it, but there's so little upside and so much downside to putting a physical sword user on Mortal Savant rather than just leaving them on Swordmaster/Assassin. I can't think of a single physical unit that I'd rather put on Mortal Savant than leave them on an advanced class.

The entire class is basically a trap. It looks so much like the "intended" master class for sword users, and so it tricks people into thinking it's what they should be doing with units like Felix and Petra, when it really just kinda screws them over.

Its kinda funny, I remember Felix asking a question in class that amounted to "why should I train in magic when at best I'll only be an average mage?". Even the game knows that it's a waste.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Jakkun

[Ivan Tridelan]

1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Thrysus does deal 10 damage, but all of the Saint weapons and equipment (Spear of Assal, Caduceus Staff, The Inexhaustible, etc.) do not require a crest to use them without taking damage. Hubert or Dorothea, for instance, can use the Caduceus staff without any recoil despite lacking a Crest.

That is interesting and actually makes sense from a lore perspective, when you consider where the Elites' Crests and weapons came from.

On topic: Bernadetta naturally progresses to Bow Knight but Falcon Knight offers superior mobility at the cost of extra bow range and Bowfaire. That being said, her strength can be a serious issue and if you go Brigand for Death Blow then Wyvern Lord is a possibility instead of FK.

Petra is very flexible, but WL is best, especially if you don't recruit as most of the BE don't naturally progress towards it. 2nd option would be Assassin

Sylvain would be a Paladin, WL or DK. As has been mentioned his spell list is surprisingly good and with Avoid +20 while wielding Black Magic he's a rare front-line mage option. If you're not interested in raising Reason and Faith, Paladin or WL are options, though his strengths naturally lean toward the former.

[ApocaLips]

17 minutes ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

Petra is very flexible, but WL is best, especially if you don't recruit as most of the BE don't naturally progress towards it. 

Huh? BE had edelgard, Caspar, Ferdinand, and even potentially Bernadetta (as you mentioned) as potential WL candidates. I agree Petra is best in a vacuum as WL, but BE has an embarrassment of riches for WL candidates, so I usually feel the need to move her to bow knight on that route. 

[freewaffles]

1 hour ago, timon said:

I think it's just that @ZeManaphy probably thinks that master is straight up superior to advanced instead of sidegrades, so to be endgame viable a sword user would have to go MS.

And I mean, to be fair, the game doesn't do anything to explain or make you think otherwise (with the lv.30 requirement and multiple stats on A) until you get to the actual classes and see the stats and reqs for yourself.

But yeah, don't do MS, Assassin is just better.

The two exceptions to the sidegrade issue are Wyvern Lord and Warmaster being clear upgrades over Wyvern Rider and Grappler/Warrior.

If anything Falcon Knight vs. Wyvern Rider is the better comparison than FK v. WL:  2 hp, 2 strength (and axes), and 2 defense versus 2 dex, 3 speed, 2 res, and 1 mov.

1 hour ago, Elspeth said:

I'll argue up and down for putting certain spellcasters on it

Even then I struggle.  I understand the Gremory v. Mortal Savant argument that you've made.  But I think you're comparing to the wrong class as well.  See 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by freewaffles

[Kiran_]

Bernadetta: BK, no argument.

Petra: Wyvern Lord, since there's no Master, sword wielding infantry (not Mortal Savant)

Sylvain: Dark Knight every time.  No argument. Paladin is never better. I also just favor mages and a magic user who can sit in the front lines of the final BL map and tank hits and decimate all the low Res enemies (everyone) with doubles is incredible (not to mention his Black Magic Avo+20). Match that with Fiendish Blow and Death Blow on player phase depending on who he's going against, and the versatility is incredible. Plus he gets Psychic, and some powerful spells. Honestly though, I just have him equipped with magic all the time he's incredible. 

And idk why everyone talks about investment, it's super easy to get the requirements for all the Master classes by at most Lv. 35. But usually by lv. 30. And this is with trying to get all the reqs for all the intermediate classes. And not NG+, but my first run through.

 

[Landmaster]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Was the result so bad that it made you want to do this?

Or this?

 

 

The 2nd 10 times over~

[timon]

1 hour ago, Kiran_ said:

Sylvain: Dark Knight every time.  No argument. Paladin is never better.

That's not true, Paladin is a great class, not only on par with Master classes but actually straight up superior to a couple of them (Great Knight especially, but it's also overall a better class than MS or WarMaster, even though those are different roles).

The big advantage is that you can focus completely on Lances (and you get lancefaire), which are great on higher tiers since you get some nasty stuff (Gradivus is stupid, but Lance of Assal is also very relevant). Also without thinking about Reason you can get faster to A+ Riding which means +1 Mov. And Paladins already have one more Mov than DK, plus Terrain Resistance which for some maps is actually very useful. And, again, not losing time with Reason (and Faith, if you want Physic) you can get high Authority fast (which is so very relevant).

Basically Paladin is a better option if you want to focus. Sure Dark Knight is nice for being hybrid and giving you options, but Paladins lets you have more focused down stats and skill ranks, so you can just worry all about Str and Lances without risking spreading too thin.

[Spectrum]

Petra: Wyvern Lord. (She excels at almosy every physical class tbh. Paladin, Falcon Knight, Swordmaster, Assassin, but WL is far much more superior)

Bernie: Bow Knight. (Will try Falcon Knight later)

Sylvain: Sylvain is interesting. I made him WL and he was great. I went for Great Knight and he was solid; he had high speed so he basically doubled while being a Great Knight and took 0-5 dmg at most. I tried Paladin on him and he was decent. Great Knight is my favorite on him. I have yet to try Dark Knight. The investment in it turns me down quite a bit, but I'm still surprised that most votes went to it so I guess I'll try it.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Spectrum

[Jayvee94]

21 hours ago, Spectrum said:

Sylvain: ... I have yet to try Dark Knight. The investment in it turns me down quite a bit, but I'm still surprised that most votes went to it so I guess I'll try it.

Perhaps it's easier on his home route or when you're Bylass.