Best Classes of your Students (and Faculty) Encore: Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude

[ZeManaphy]

For those of you that wondered why I chose Mortal Savant for Petra, I did it my for my GD run, and I found that magic was still very useful in dispatching Fortress Knights and Paladins etc. since these units are physical walls, and not Magic ones. For similar reasons, I find Mortal Savant Felix to be very useful as well: Thoron is great for dispatching Knights who utilize Tomahawks and he even has a budding talent for it. Just because a unit does not excel in a field does not nesscarily mean they shouldn't invest in it. 

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

For those of you that wondered why I chose Mortal Savant for Petra, I did it my for my GD run, and I found that magic was still very useful in dispatching Fortress Knights and Paladins etc. since these units are physical walls, and not Magic ones. For similar reasons, I find Mortal Savant Felix to be very useful as well: Thoron is great for dispatching Knights who utilize Tomahawks and he even has a budding talent for it. Just because a unit does not excel in a field does not nesscarily mean they shouldn't invest in it. 

The problem I have here is that Armorslayers and Rapiers are a thing, if Fortress Knights and Paladins are really that much of a problem.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[ZeManaphy]

Just now, Shadow Mir said:

The problem I have here is that Armorslayers and Rapiers are a thing.

I found later on that Armor Slayers don't do as much damage when the game progresses on to later chapter. As for Rapiers, I don't think I ever got one on any of my playthroughs. Where do you even get one?

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, ZeManaphy said:

I found later on that Armor Slayers don't do as much damage when the game progresses on to later chapter. As for Rapiers, I don't think I ever got one on any of my playthroughs. Where do you even get one?

There is one in Manuela and Hanneman's paralogue. I think I saw stuff about there being a second, but don't remember.

[ApocaLips]

3 hours ago, timon said:

That's not true, Paladin is a great class, not only on par with Master classes but actually straight up superior to a couple of them (Great Knight especially, but it's also overall a better class than MS or WarMaster, even though those are different roles).

The big advantage is that you can focus completely on Lances (and you get lancefaire), which are great on higher tiers since you get some nasty stuff (Gradivus is stupid, but Lance of Assal is also very relevant). Also without thinking about Reason you can get faster to A+ Riding which means +1 Mov. And Paladins already have one more Mov than DK, plus Terrain Resistance which for some maps is actually very useful. And, again, not losing time with Reason (and Faith, if you want Physic) you can get high Authority fast (which is so very relevant).

Basically Paladin is a better option if you want to focus. Sure Dark Knight is nice for being hybrid and giving you options, but Paladins lets you have more focused down stats and skill ranks, so you can just worry all about Str and Lances without risking spreading too thin.

QFT, idk why people are so slow to pick up on how good Paladin is. They probably just see the speed penalty and get scared off, but they’re really missing how much weight that class pulls. 

(Disagree that war master is necessarily worse, though. It’s a good class and is trying to do something pretty different than what Paladin is trying to do.)

[CyberNinja]

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

There is one in Manuela and Hanneman's paralogue. I think I saw stuff about there being a second, but don't remember.

Claude's paralogue.

[Kiran_]

20 hours ago, timon said:

That's not true, Paladin is a great class, not only on par with Master classes but actually straight up superior to a couple of them (Great Knight especially, but it's also overall a better class than MS or WarMaster, even though those are different roles).

The big advantage is that you can focus completely on Lances (and you get lancefaire), which are great on higher tiers since you get some nasty stuff (Gradivus is stupid, but Lance of Assal is also very relevant). Also without thinking about Reason you can get faster to A+ Riding which means +1 Mov. And Paladins already have one more Mov than DK, plus Terrain Resistance which for some maps is actually very useful. And, again, not losing time with Reason (and Faith, if you want Physic) you can get high Authority fast (which is so very relevant).

Basically Paladin is a better option if you want to focus. Sure Dark Knight is nice for being hybrid and giving you options, but Paladins lets you have more focused down stats and skill ranks, so you can just worry all about Str and Lances without risking spreading too thin.

Well, it was a joke because I love magic and so anything that can't wield magic is instantly inferior, but you act as if getting these skills is hard?

On my first playthrough (BL), it was super easy to get him to A+ Riding for +1 Mov way before end game, and that's WITH also getting Physic and A+ Reason. Plus Dark Knight comes with Tomefaire. Combine that with Fiendish Blow and a Sylvain who got magic almost every level-up, and everything you're saying is pretty irrelevant. Plus don't sleep on that Black Magic Avo, it's critical. So there wasn't a weird spreading too thin, and I don't see how stats are spread thin when they're just influenced by growth rates and class. 

I never needed Terrain Resistance, and Authority isn't very relevant? Unless I am missing something Authority does? But never focusing on Authority and I still got it up to like ... C+ or something and equipped some better battalions, but honestly never focused on authority for anyone and the BL playthrough was a breeze (Hard/Classic), so I never really saw an overwhelming benefit to it.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Kiran_

[timon]

2 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

Well, it was a joke because I love magic and so anything that can't wield magic is instantly inferior, but you act as if getting these skills is hard?

On my first playthrough (BL), it was super easy to get him to A+ Riding for +1 Mov way before end game, and that's WITH also getting Physic and A+ Reason. Plus Dark Knight comes with Tomefaire. Combine that with Fiendish Blow and a Sylvain who got magic almost every level-up, and everything you're saying is pretty irrelevant. Plus don't sleep on that Black Magic Avo, it's critical. So there wasn't a weird spreading too thin, and I don't see how stats are spread thin when they're just influenced by growth rates and class. 

I never needed Terrain Resistance, and Authority isn't very relevant? Unless I am missing something Authority does? But never focusing on Authority and I still got it up to like ... C+ or something and equipped some better battalions, but honestly never focused on authority for anyone and the BL playthrough was a breeze (Hard/Classic), so I never really saw an overwhelming benefit to it.

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that Paladin not only requires less investment but you get some benefits over DK.

From your post I understand that you ran Sylvain as a Mage (Fiendish Blow and A+ Reason), which means you basically downplayed him for the first 30 levels (not saying he's terrible, but he's an okay mage at best). Also I'm guessing Lance skill wasn't stellar (unless you're in NG+ it's actually impossible that it was anything over B, unless you cheesed it or something). That's also what I meant by spreading too thin in stats, a DK Sylvain wants to hit stuff with Lances and have the option of Mag, if you go Cav->Pal->DK you probably won't get very high Mag. If you go Mage>Warlock>DK then you're just doing a mounted mage, which is cool, but there are many better units for a focused mounted mage.

DK is not necessarily the worst choice, but Paladin definitely has a lot of upsides, and it requires much less work, as Sylvain can be useful the whole playthrough as an excellent Cavalier that naturally goes into Pal (which is available at lv.20). Terrain Resistance is definitely relevant in some routes more than in others, but it's useful nonetheless. Authority is VERY relevant, and I mean VERY relevant, battallions' bonuses are huge. At C you get some good stuff (namely the lord's battallions and a couple from paralogues) but the real good stuff is at B.

And yes, the game's a breeze even if you use an army of fortress knights, that's not the point. It doesn't mean it's the best class for anyone.

Again, I'm not saying DK it's garbage, if you look at my post I actually ran Sylvain as one, too. But if you do the more consistent path of Cavalier -> Paladin -> DK you definitely need to do a lot of investment. Going mage on him means running an underperforming unit for 30 levels AND losing out on an excellent mounted unit for said 20 levels. It's undeniable really, it's maths, going Paladin is a more straightforward and specialized path, with basically no chance of getting screwed. DK is a good alternative, but it requires a lot of work and it can definitely go wrong.

[ApocaLips]

4 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

Well, it was a joke because I love magic and so anything that can't wield magic is instantly inferior, but you act as if getting these skills is hard?

On my first playthrough (BL), it was super easy to get him to A+ Riding for +1 Mov way before end game, and that's WITH also getting Physic and A+ Reason. Plus Dark Knight comes with Tomefaire. Combine that with Fiendish Blow and a Sylvain who got magic almost every level-up, and everything you're saying is pretty irrelevant. Plus don't sleep on that Black Magic Avo, it's critical. So there wasn't a weird spreading too thin, and I don't see how stats are spread thin when they're just influenced by growth rates and class. 

I never needed Terrain Resistance, and Authority isn't very relevant? Unless I am missing something Authority does? But never focusing on Authority and I still got it up to like ... C+ or something and equipped some better battalions, but honestly never focused on authority for anyone and the BL playthrough was a breeze (Hard/Classic), so I never really saw an overwhelming benefit to it.

 

 

 

Getting magic “almost every level-up” is not even remotely close to the average outcome for a character with 30 mag growth. Congrats on getting lucky with him, but that doesn’t speak at all to how good the character or setup actually is. 

Yes, you are missing quite a bit by leaving authority at rank C. The B rank (and some A rank) battalions generally have substantially higher stats and some excellent gambits, particularly on BL route. You’ve left that all on the table. 

As an aside, no one can ever verify on an internet forum whether someone truly thinks a playthrough “was a breeze” or not. Usually, though, when someone feels the need to start making that assertion to support their points, it’s not a good sign for their argument. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ApocaLips

[daisy jane]

I like Bernie as a Falcon Knight. 
my CF Bernie ended up with 32+ Speed and 25 strength which was hands down the best bernie i had in 3 paths - (I had a Bow Knight bernie who couldn't even do anything with all that extra range, hit 20, and bowfaire) - she was simply too slow, and too weak. (also when doing the slow (trudge) to get Bernie to C on swords, she can then get some mercenary trainng and get vantage (and more importantly - growths in strength).

 

Sylvain: wyvern lord. no bones about it.  I found great knight crippled his speed, and he didn't have a lot of OHKO-ness while i got the mobility and the utter destruction with him on a Wyvern.

Petra - I don't know. I've had her as an Assassin, a Falcon Knight a Wyvern Lord... and she's been good in all of them but not like "this is my place now." for me. (actually to be dead honest with you having her in 4 playthroughs - i'm actually debating her kicking her off my "I MUST HAVE THEM!!" team.(Felix, Ingrid) (and the "I MUST SAVE THEM!! team") (Marianne, Bernadetta)

 

[freewaffles]

6 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

I never needed Terrain Resistance, and Authority isn't very relevant? Unless I am missing something Authority does? But never focusing on Authority and I still got it up to like ... C+ or something and equipped some better battalions, but honestly never focused on authority for anyone and the BL playthrough was a breeze (Hard/Classic), so I never really saw an overwhelming benefit to it.

 

 

 

Not getting B authority means you don't get access to the one good mixed-attacking Batallion: Gloucester Knights give +6/+6 phys/mag might.  That's a bigger increase to magic damage than the stat growth you get by going Mage/Warlock for 20 levels.

4 hours ago, timon said:

Again, I'm not saying DK it's garbage, if you look at my post I actually ran Sylvain as one, too. But if you do the more consistent path of Cavalier -> Paladin -> DK you definitely need to do a lot of investment. Going mage on him means running an underperforming unit for 30 levels AND losing out on an excellent mounted unit for said 20 levels. It's undeniable really, it's maths, going Paladin is a more straightforward and specialized path, with basically no chance of getting screwed. DK is a good alternative, but it requires a lot of work and it can definitely go wrong.

Also, as Paladin route the short diversion it takes to get him to brigand instead of cavalier gives him Deadly Blow.  Merely certifying as a Warlock send his base magic to 17, which he is very unlikely to hit even as a Monk/Mage route (he needs +7 mag from 10-20 assuming, as is likely, that he doesn't reach 10 mag before certifying as a Mage) By going brigand/paladin/DK, and taking the Warlcok test at 20, he gains 3 more strength than as a Mage route, death blow, and keeps all of his post-20 magic growths.

Edited August 29, 2019 by freewaffles

[Burklight]

I generally think WL Sylvain is best, but there is a pretty solid reason to go paladin that I haven't seen anyone make yet, and that's his A rank lance ability "Swift Strikes." Lancefair gives you straight up +10 damage to that, which is quite strong. I don't think he gets lancefair in any other class.

[ApocaLips]

5 minutes ago, Burklight said:

I generally think WL Sylvain is best, but there is a pretty solid reason to go paladin that I haven't seen anyone make yet, and that's his A rank lance ability "Swift Strikes." Lancefair gives you straight up +10 damage to that, which is quite strong. I don't think he gets lancefair in any other class.

Great knight is the only other one. It’s an underrated class for him, as the existence of swift strikes makes speed less important, but I agree Paladin is better. 

I’ve done both, I much prefer Paladin over WL on both Sylvain and Ferdinand. 

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 hour ago, ApocaLips said:

Great knight is the only other one. It’s an underrated class for him, as the existence of swift strikes makes speed less important, but I agree Paladin is better. 

I’ve done both, I much prefer Paladin over WL on both Sylvain and Ferdinand. 

Yeah, Ferdinand works like that for the same reason. But a unit can focus on Authority and Lances better when they are just being a Paladin, and not focusing on becoming a Great Knight. So, Swift Strikes can be obtained faster and earlier.

Honestly, I should have said that Ferdinand was better as a Paladin and not as a Bow Knight (even though he is capable, possibly more so than the canonical archers just in terms of stats). Him and Sylvain are very similar.

[ApocaLips]

47 minutes ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

Yeah, Ferdinand works like that for the same reason. But a unit can focus on Authority and Lances better when they are just being a Paladin, and not focusing on becoming a Great Knight. So, Swift Strikes can be obtained faster and earlier.

Honestly, I should have said that Ferdinand was better as a Paladin and not as a Bow Knight (even though he is capable, possibly more so than the canonical archers just in terms of stats). Him and Sylvain are very similar.

Agreed. Swift strikes is a game changer. I also like getting Ferdinand/Sylvain to B authority ASAP to run Gautier knights for stride+canto+hella avoid. The problem with great knight for them isn’t so much the stats, but rather the need to get near A in axes. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ApocaLips

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

34 minutes ago, ApocaLips said:

Agreed. Swift strikes is a game changer. I also like getting Ferdinand/Sylvain to B authority ASAP to run Gautier knights for stride+canto+hella avoid. The problem with great knight for them isn’t so much the stats, but rather the need to get near A in axes. 

I think it’s A in Armor. Only a B+ in Axes is needed, and both have proficiencies in that stuff. Only Ferdinand von Aegir can have an Armor talent, and it is still a hidden talent you have to actively build up with Ferdinand first.

[freewaffles]

1 hour ago, ApocaLips said:

Agreed. Swift strikes is a game changer. I also like getting Ferdinand/Sylvain to B authority ASAP to run Gautier knights for stride+canto+hella avoid. The problem with great knight for them isn’t so much the stats, but rather the need to get near A in axes. 

 

36 minutes ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

I think it’s A in Armor. Only a B+ in Axes is needed, and both have proficiencies in that stuff. Only Ferdinand von Aegir can have an Armor talent, and it is still a hidden talent you have to actively build up with Ferdinand first.

B+ in Axes, B+ in Riding, and  A armor, which is an insane combination to get.  No other class has two non-weapon skill requirements.  Great Knight also has 1 less Strength and 2 less dex than Paladin, so you're not getting as much damage from Swift Strikes anyway.  

I do agree though that it's an underrated class, as the Weight Reduction from getting A-armor negates a lot of the speed drop.  People ignore this on Fortress Knight too, and the weight reduction abilities stack.  Fortress Knight can carry a Steel Axe with 0 speed penalty.  It has no movement, but it's not crippling its speed. 

I normally try to grab C in Armor for both of them for the speed boost anyway, even as Paladins, before pumping Authority.  My normal route for both is to start Lance/Heavy Armor.  I use axes exclusively in the early game and try to reach D+ so they can get Brigand certification.  Once Heavy Armor is a C swap to Authority/Riding as needed.  Get Swift Strikes and then go Riding/Authority for rest of game.

Edited August 29, 2019 by freewaffles

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Petra is an obvious wyvern lord, Sylvain a paladin, and Bernadetta, ugh, seriously she can go back to her room because she is a weakling. I wanted to make her become a bow paladin.......if I really have the patience to level her. Honestly she could work as a dancer.

[Cysx]

51 minutes ago, freewaffles said:

I do agree though that it's an underrated class, as the Weight Reduction from getting A-armor negates a lot of the speed drop.  People ignore this on Fortress Knight too, and the weight reduction abilities stack.  Fortress Knight can carry a Steel Axe with 0 speed penalty.  It has no movement, but it's not crippling its speed. 

There's only so much weight reduction can do for Fortress Knight when their -10 Spd mod makes it extremely difficult to double with low weight weapons/not get doubled by half existing enemies, including mages:x In practice they could have weight -50 and it would affect very little, you still need a speed baseline to work off of.

Admittedly Great Knight doesn't have it that bad in comparison, but someone with Paladin as a final class should have no trouble getting weight -3 with all that tutoring exp they don't need, making the speed difference still in Paladin's favor... and that's only on weapons that weigh down Paladins in the first place. The lower mobility both mounted and dismounted kind of finish sealing the deal.

[Kiran_]

8 hours ago, timon said:

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that Paladin not only requires less investment but you get some benefits over DK.

From your post I understand that you ran Sylvain as a Mage (Fiendish Blow and A+ Reason), which means you basically downplayed him for the first 30 levels (not saying he's terrible, but he's an okay mage at best). Also I'm guessing Lance skill wasn't stellar (unless you're in NG+ it's actually impossible that it was anything over B, unless you cheesed it or something). That's also what I meant by spreading too thin in stats, a DK Sylvain wants to hit stuff with Lances and have the option of Mag, if you go Cav->Pal->DK you probably won't get very high Mag. If you go Mage>Warlock>DK then you're just doing a mounted mage, which is cool, but there are many better units for a focused mounted mage.

DK is not necessarily the worst choice, but Paladin definitely has a lot of upsides, and it requires much less work, as Sylvain can be useful the whole playthrough as an excellent Cavalier that naturally goes into Pal (which is available at lv.20). Terrain Resistance is definitely relevant in some routes more than in others, but it's useful nonetheless. Authority is VERY relevant, and I mean VERY relevant, battallions' bonuses are huge. At C you get some good stuff (namely the lord's battallions and a couple from paralogues) but the real good stuff is at B.

Again, I'm not saying DK it's garbage, if you look at my post I actually ran Sylvain as one, too. But if you do the more consistent path of Cavalier -> Paladin -> DK you definitely need to do a lot of investment. Going mage on him means running an underperforming unit for 30 levels AND losing out on an excellent mounted unit for said 20 levels. It's undeniable really, it's maths, going Paladin is a more straightforward and specialized path, with basically no chance of getting screwed. DK is a good alternative, but it requires a lot of work and it can definitely go wrong.

No, I get there's less investment, my point is more that the other investment isn't significantly harder to get (at least it didn't feel that way). I understand Paladin is statistically less work, but by the time I reached Lv. 30, I had everything I needed to go straight to DK, so it didn't feel like I wasted any time.

And yes, I did, Brigand > Mage > Dark Knight for Sylvain! I got really RNG blessed by my Sylvain, because he was definitely not an okay mage. He hit harder than everyone else on my BL playthrough that wasn't named Lysithea (I recruited her), because Mercedes and more so Annette both got Speed screwed (even with Darting Blow), and so Sylvain for me was my only mage that was doubling, which put his damage output wayyy higher. Plus I could give him a Lance on occasion and with Death Blow it was okay. But you're right, I did run him as a mounted mage essentially! And no, my Lance skill wasn't higher than a C+/B I think, but I legit never had him wielding one.

Plus as I said, I did get RNG blessed by him, so while I understand by the numbers Paladin can be a good choice, I was more as I said, just joking about the fact I love my magic, so of course I chose that route and which is why I was like, "Paladin is never better." =P

But, I'll have to pay more attention to battalions bonuses in my current playthrough then! Everyone was around C - B authority by the end, but I also didn't really make it a point to change battalions that often until I remembered. Hahaha.

6 hours ago, ApocaLips said:

Getting magic “almost every level-up” is not even remotely close to the average outcome for a character with 30 mag growth. Congrats on getting lucky with him, but that doesn’t speak at all to how good the character or setup actually is. 

As an aside, no one can ever verify on an internet forum whether someone truly thinks a playthrough “was a breeze” or not. Usually, though, when someone feels the need to start making that assertion to support their points, it’s not a good sign for their argument. 

I know I got lucky? And of course I know it might not objectively be the 'best' path, but I still don't think it requires significantly more resources, and as he was a mage for most of the time, it makes sense I got more mag growth. 

It wasn't really an assertion to support my point, so much as a note that I don't feel like a lack of Authority truly affected the ease of my playthrough, which is why I didn't focus on it. But I'm more than willing to see how having a higher Authority does affect the playthrough. So as an aside, maybe realize not everything on an Internet forum is an argument.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Kiran_

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 hour ago, Lysithea said:

Petra is an obvious wyvern lord, Sylvain a paladin, and Bernadetta, ugh, seriously she can go back to her room because she is a weakling. I wanted to make her become a bow paladin.......if I really have the patience to level her. Honestly she could work as a dancer.

Well, she does learn Thoron and Physic (Rescue, too, but...), so she can serve as support and chip. Or just dance.

[freewaffles]

39 minutes ago, Cysx said:

There's only so much weight reduction can do for Fortress Knight when their -10 Spd mod makes it extremely difficult to double with low weight weapons/not get doubled by half existing enemies, including mages:x In practice they could have weight -50 and it would affect very little, you still need a speed baseline to work off of.

Admittedly Great Knight doesn't have it that bad in comparison, but someone with Paladin as a final class should have no trouble getting weight -3 with all that tutoring exp they don't need, making the speed difference still in Paladin's favor... and that's only on weapons that weigh down Paladins in the first place. The lower mobility both mounted and dismounted kind of finish sealing the deal.

I just posted this in another thread:

Level 30 expected stats for Sylvian going Fighter/Brigand using Silver Axe (Silver Lance for Paladin):

Fortress Knight/Great Knight: 26 Str, 17 Speed, - 5 Weight from Strength, -5 Weight from Armor Skills = Attack Speed of 17.

Paladin/Paladin: 29 Str, 20 Speed, -5 Weight from Strength = Attack Speed of 16 (if you diverge to C-armor, it'll be 19).

Warrior/Great Knight: 28 Str, 18 Speed, -5 Weight from Strength, - 5 weight from Armor Skill = Attack Speed of 18.

Warrior/Warmaster: 31 Strength, 26 Speed, - 6 weight from Strength = Attack Speed of 22

Wyvern Rider/Lord: 30 Strength, 28 Speed, - 6 weight from Strength = 24 Attack Speed.

 

Conclusion:

I still prefer Pally/Pally, because you can pump Authority and still have time for C-Armor rating.  But eve in that situation, the comparison is:  1 move, 1 strength, 2 dex, 1 attack Speed, 2 res versus 3 HP and 6 defense. 

For Sylvain (and Ferdi who is pretty close to identical) Pally/Pally over Warrior/Great Knight is at least debatable.

Edited August 29, 2019 by freewaffles

[Cysx]

30 minutes ago, freewaffles said:

I just posted this in another thread:

Level 30 expected stats for Sylvian going Fighter/Brigand using Silver Axe (Silver Lance for Paladin):

Fortress Knight/Great Knight: 26 Str, 17 Speed, - 5 Weight from Strength, -5 Weight from Armor Skills = Attack Speed of 17.

Paladin/Paladin: 29 Str, 20 Speed, -5 Weight from Strength = Attack Speed of 16 (if you diverge to C-armor, it'll be 19).

Warrior/Great Knight: 28 Str, 18 Speed, -5 Weight from Strength, - 5 weight from Armor Skill = Attack Speed of 18.

Warrior/Warmaster: 31 Strength, 26 Speed, - 6 weight from Strength = Attack Speed of 22

Wyvern Rider/Lord: 30 Strength, 28 Speed, - 6 weight from Strength = 24 Attack Speed.

 

Conclusion:

I still prefer Pally/Pally, because you can pump Authority and still have time for C-Armor rating.  But eve in that situation, the comparison is:  1 move, 1 strength, 2 dex, 1 attack Speed, 2 res versus 3 HP and 6 defense. 

For Sylvain (and Ferdi who is pretty close to identical) Pally/Pally over Warrior/Great Knight is at least debatable.

Fortress knight is -6 Spd not -10, Imma correct my notes

Right, but you're still not taking into consideration that Pally can go for lower weight options to get better AS and should actually be able to double some targets with food bonuses and the +2 boost from dismounting, while Great knight hard caps 3 AS lower no matter what you do(2 if you really want to be technical but Warriors specialize in axes and have no reason to go Great Knight over Wyvern, it's all about lances here)

Edit: Also that doesn't really address the fortress knight part of my comment. You say stacking both weight -5 is helpful, but why?

Edited August 29, 2019 by Cysx

[freewaffles]

38 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Edit: Also that doesn't really address the fortress knight part of my comment. You say stacking both weight -5 is helpful, but why?

Double stacking the weight skills is useful in the early 20s when (a) you're using Steel weapons (Steel Axe is 12 weight, Lance is 11), and (b) a little lower on Strength.

At level 20 Fighter/Brigand Sylvain without accounting for Armor Class Skill has:

Fortress Knight: 20 str, 11 speed for 36 damage at 8 Attack Speed (11 - (12 - 5 - 4)).  

Paladin: 22 Strength, 16 speed for 36 damage at 9 Attack Speed. (16 - (11 - 4))

Warrior: 23 Strength, 19 speed for 39 damage at 11 Attack speed. (19 - (12 - 4))

At Level 25:

FK: 23 Strength, 13 speed for 39 damage, 10 attack speed (13 - (12 - 5 - 4))

Paladin: 25 Strength, 18 speed for 39 damage, 12 attack speed (18 - (11 - 5))

Warrior: 26 strength, 22 speed for 43 damage, 15 attack speed (22 - (12 - 5))

But if I also use the -3 Weight Ability in addition to Fortress Knight's class skill, I can completely negate Steel Axe's weight as a Fortress Knight.  The new attack speeds would be 11 and 12 respectively.  If I use the -5 weight ability instead, I can completely negate the weights of Brave Axe, Tomahawk, and Axe of Zoltan.

Now, I don't suggest going FK at level 20, unless you're trying to get Pavise.  I actually would suggest going Warrior for the better strength and speed growths as shown by the level 30 stats above.  Plus, you can pick up Wrath along the way.

Edited August 29, 2019 by freewaffles

[Cysx]

3 minutes ago, freewaffles said:

Double stacking the weight skills is useful in the early 20s when (a) you're using Steel weapons (Steel Axe is 12 weight, Lance is 11), and (b) a little lower on Strength.

At level 20 Fighter/Brigand Sylvain without accounting for Armor Class Skill has:

Fortress Knight: 20 str, 11 speed for 36 damage at 8 Attack Speed (11 - (12 - 5 - 4)).  

Paladin: 22 Strength, 16 speed for 36 damage at 9 Attack Speed. (16 - (11 - 4))

Warrior: 23 Strength, 19 speed for 39 damage at 11 Attack speed. (19 - (12 - 4))

At Level 25:

FK: 23 Strength, 13 speed for 39 damage, 10 attack speed (13 - (12 - 5 - 4))

Paladin: 25 Strength, 18 speed for 39 damage, 12 attack speed (18 - (11 - 5))

Warrior: 26 strength, 22 speed for 43 damage, 15 attack speed (22 - (12 - 5))

But if I also use the -3 Weight Ability in addition to Fortress Knight's class skill, I can completely negate Steel Axe's weight as a Fortress Knight.  The new attack speeds would be 11 and 12 respectively.  If I use the -5 weight ability instead, I can completely negate Brave Axe, Tomahaw, and Axe of Zoltan.

But again, what does it matter since your AS at best will be 11/13, which doubles nothing? In what way does it help you?

Edited August 29, 2019 by Cysx