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How canonically strong are these Three Houses characters? - Day 6 (Petra, Felix, Marianne, Thales)

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On the General Fire Emblem forum I hosted a topic about how canonically strong various Fire Emblem characters would be. It turned out to be pretty successful so I thought it was interesting to go examine some Three Houses characters as well. Naturally this topic will include spoilers. 

I think its a very interesting point to discuss because characters being statistically strong or canonically strong are often two entirely different things in this series. Characters like Pent or Tibarn probably really are as strong as their stats suggest but other times the strongest fighter in a nation turned out to be a statistical wimp. 

The plan is to post four character each day. Three characters will be of the different houses while the fourth will be a church member or miscellaneous character. The characters would be ranked by a number ranging from 1 till 10. I made a helpful ranking list to suggest what every score should imply. 

Spoiler

 

10 - legendary Heroes: These guys are the strongest people in their respective continents with almost godlike powers. Think final bosses, the previous legendary warriors or those playable characters the lore deems to be far above everyone else.  

9 - Champions: These fighters are so powerful that they could practically turn the tide of battle on their own. While extremely powerful and capable of dominating most foes they would still find their match in the main villain, mayor side villains or godlike individuals. 

8 - Powerhouses: The elites of any army. While not able to win battles on their own they are among the best fighters an army has to offer and will always significantly affect the battle. 

7 - Skilled: Very skilled individuals who can not only hold their own in combat but contribute meaningfully to every battle they participate in.

6 - Average: Characters of average skill who can hold their own in combat but not much more. 

5 - Below average: Characters who just aren't very good fighters. They aren't exactly a burden but are unlikely to defeat strong opponents in single combat.

4 - Weaklings: Bad fighters who's performance on the battle field would rarely impress. Likely to be a burden.

3/2 - Mooks: Characters who are unlikely to be much stronger than the basic enemy soldiers.

1 - Joke character: The absolute weakest characters on any continent. These characters are suited only for the bench. 

 

To start us off simply and to test the waters a bit the first characters to be ranked are the three house leaders and Seteth. Aside from Byleth and Rhea they can be said to be the main lords of the games considering they are Byleth's main companions throughout the routes. 

So how strong would you say these characters are supposed to be? I'll just start us off. 

Edelgard: 8,5/10

Truth be told I suspect Edelgard might be weaker than her status as main villain would suggest. Her capabilities are often highly praised but more in the sense that she's an inspiring leader rather than a champion on the battlefield. She also misses certain attributes like Dimitri's monster strength or Claude's shrewdness. That said she's almost certainly a very capable warrior in her own right and certainly in the same league as her co lords. We know for a fact that she is stronger than Ferdinant von Aegir who's likely among the more powerful Eagles. Multiple characters also speak favorable of Edelgard's powers. 

Crests are supposed to greatly strengthen the character who inherits them and Edelgard has two of them. Both of these crests also happen to be the most prominent of the bunch. If we were to incorporate their gameplay function into the mix then the crest of Seiros might make her attacks more powerful than they would otherwise be while the crest of Flames could heal her in battle. With Edelgard's heavy armor boosting her defence and both the crest of Flames and the Sword of Seiros healing their users she might be capable of fighting for a very long time. Edelgard's strongest boon might be her willpower. She's a zealot about her goals so she'd likely keep soldiering on no matter how though the fighting gets. 

All in all Edelgard strikes me as a very powerful fighter but not almighty. She has some very interesting tools to employ in battle to give her an additional edge but those aren't always part of her natural abilities. 

Dimitri: 9/10

Dimitri strikes me as the strongest lord in the game and perhaps even one of the strongest fighters on Fodlan. His post timeskip design in particular oozes power. 

Thanks to his backstory Dimitri already starts out as one of the most experienced lord. He fought in a war before coming to the monastery and if Felix is to be believed his contribution in that fight was on par with Dimitri's slaughter of the Flame Emperor's guards. Throughout the story Dimitri racks up a highly personal bodycount without any outside assistance. No less then two times does he slaughter many soldiers on his own and its implied he did it a lot more during the timeskip. During his slaughter of her guards Edelgard seems somewhat intimidated so I assume he's stronger than she is and that he would have killed Edelgard if she hadn't warped away 

After the timeskip Dimitri becomes more experienced than he already was. He spend years massacring imperial troops on his own to the extend he got quite a reputation. He also wields a legendary weapon and became huge. There are some anecdotes in the story to suggest Dimitri has an unusual amount of strength in his body. Even as a kid he could snap a sword in half and after the timeskip an NPC says Dimitri can lift an ox with just a single arm. 

Dimitri's one flaw might be that ''Kill every last one of them!''  isn't really a healthy attitude to have on the battlefield. A clever opponent could abuse his fragile mental state and kill him. In one route Edelgard does just that.  

Claude: 8,5/10

When it comes to pure strength and stamina Claude might lack behind the other two lords. What sets Claude apart are his skill and his tricks. 

Claude's tactical mind would likely help him a great deal in battle. If his enemy has a weak spot he'll find it and if they'll slip up he will abuse it.  Any trickster worth his salt would naturally already have a plot in motion before starting the fight. Even without doing anything Claude would be a very tricky enemy to face. He's on a wyern which gives him a great deal of mobility and the chance to avoid many attacks by sticking to the air. Unlike most wyvern knights Claude wields a bow which gives him the ability to use hit and run tactics until the opponent is either wounded or exhausted. Interestingly the Barbarossa class description mentions its a typical Almyran fighting style which most Fodlandians probably aren't used to face, thus giving Claude an edge. 

Claude biggest weakness might be that he isn't a naturally strong fighter but he has the skill, the mount and the unique fighting style to overcome that. 

Seteth: 9/10

Seteth should be several times more baddass than your average bureaucrat. At first glance he doesn't appear very powerful but that's likely highly deceiving. 

The main reason to believe Seteth is an extremely powerful individual is that he's in fact Saint Cichol. He's one of the legendary heroes who defeated Nemisis. He took part in a war that lasted over a century and its likely he faced the likes of Nemisis and the 10 Elites during that time. Even if he became weaker with age than he still has several lifetimes of experience to draw from. Seteth also enjoys a very balanced mind. If Flayn isn't nearby then he'd likely keep his composure no matter what the enemy says or does. 

There are story reasons to suggest Seteth is quite powerful. He planned to take back the Rhodos coast entirely on his own until Flayn pestered him. Later in siege of the monastery Hubert explicitly mentions Seteth as the most noteworthy casualty in a battle that may count Alois, Shamir, Randolph and Ladislava among the fallen. That's rather high praise. 

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I like this idea, to be sure! Here are how I would rank them:

Edelgard

Spoiler

7. She has two crests, she routinely beats Ferdinand von Aegir, and she makes a formidable foe in non-CF routes. So why isn't she higher? Simply, her strength really isn't her fighting prowess, but in her ability to lead and to maneuver politically. She's never especially regarded for her feats of combat, save for by her rival, Ferdinand.

Dimitri

Spoiler

9. The prince of Faerghus has more power than he knows what to do with, partially due to his Crest of Blaiddyd. He is noted for his feats and combat abilities by Felix, among others, and demonstrates them through his five-year killing spree, when he lets the Boar loose against opponents foreign and domestic alike. It's only his youth and vulnerability (consider his death in VW) that keep him out of the top spot.

Claude

Spoiler

7. Like Edelgard, the Outsider Heir is strong not so much in his own battle prowess, but in his political maneuvering abilities. His schemes range from innocent pranks, to plans to alter history, and he knows to get help when he needs it. I think his speed, leadership ability, and strength of his personal classes are just enough to put him above average (but not by much).

Seteth

Spoiler

9. Was originally considering a grade lower, but you convinced me - he's a fighter of legend, persisting into the modern day. He's not a hero to the same degree Seiros or Nemesis could be considered, but he served as an elite warrior for the former. He shows up strong in his Paralogue, and in the defense of Garreg Mach, but the attempted retaking of the monastery in post-skip CF reminds us of his mortality.

 

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Spoiler formatting

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You are shortselling Edelgard quite a bit. The Immaculate One is a certified City Buster simply by powerscaling her whit the ICBMs and you can't beat that thing just by being a good leader. Byleth is unable to beat Nemesis alone and The Immaculate one is above him, and no one else should be canonically able to touch her. For me she is a 9.

Dimitri was killing armored people whit his bare hands before the time skip, but he really lack any big feat and get defeated in any route but his whitout much fanfare. I am more inclined to say 8,5 that can increase if he is sufficiently angry. But then, i can't powerscale the Hegemon to Nemesis/Seiros so i don't know where the Blue Lions stands in general.

Claude could only serves as a distraction for Nemesis and is clearly outmatched by him and Byleth. I would say he is a 7,5.

Sethet is not ****** anymore. He would be an easy 9+, but Sethet lost most of his power and i don't think he is more than an 8.

 

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Not sure about numeric scores, but I definitely think Seteth is being overrated here; he explicitly can't transform into a dragon any more so I don't think he deserves credit for whatever he did in the backstory, and I don't see any reason to believe he's anything more than a highly skilled crest-wielding warrior, which pales compared to the plot accomplishments of Dimitri and Edelgard at least. Claude's hard to rate, you said "strong' which makes me not want to give Claude credit for his shrewdness, but he could potentially rise a fair bit depending on how you feel about that of course.

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Your underselling Edelgard here. The Crest of Flames, on its own, is the MOST powerful Crest. So by that alone, Edelgard is superior to Dimitri and Claude by default. The Crest of Flames is the Crest of the Goddess Sothis herself. The Crest of Blaiddyd might have given Dimitri super strength, but that doesn't matter in the long run.

Also, keep in mind that in Silver Snow, the Gronder Field battle happens, and Claude runs off, and Dimitri dies. Edelgard retreats from being injured, but overall, she's the winner. 

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l'll give both Edelgard and Dimitri both a 8. They are monsters on the battlefield, the best in both of their respective armies. Crests to make them even more powerful. I don't want to say that one is outright better than the other so I'll play it safe. However,  I find there to be far stronger characters in Fodlan and Fire Emblem.

Claude and Seteth both get 7s from me. What Claude makes up in power be makes up in back up gambles. Him getting pimp slapped by Nemesis is sad. No one talks about Saint Cichol in battle so I downplay him a bit, but still a considerable force. 

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Nice! I've always been a fan of these kind of threads/discussions. Before beginning though, I should say that I'm using "normal humans" as reference, and therefore is highly probable that  any combat oriented character with a crest qualifies to at least a 7.

Edelgard: 9/10

Her own strenght migh have not been her goal or most defining characteristic, but it certainly was one of the goals of Those who Slither in the Dark, and tbh, they achieve it.

Not only does she have two crests, one of them, the most important and powerful one, is major. She is said to be able of winning against beasts one-on-one during the school phase, has either a modified personal weapon or Seiros sword, can use magic to an extent (even if not while playable)...

In general, we know of her strenght both because of her feats and because others statements.

Dimitri: 8,75/10?

He is a beast at fighting but due to not having played Azure Moon yet, I don't really think I should talk to much about him.

Claude: 8/10

Claude is not as good as the other lords in combat when it comes to fighting skill or strenght, being his intelligence his strongest point, but since this is about strenght (which I relate to the individuals) and not leadership, his tactics are not going to work, not in a situation where he is alone.

Stil, having a minor crest, two prf weapons, and a wyvern, are quite a few big bonus that make him rank high.

Tricks aren't something I consider part of a person's strenght, but a way for those who use them to be closer to the level of the ones they are competing with. 

Seteh: 8,5/10

He might have been a legend in the past, and with his dragon form he might have been a 9,5 or 10, but without it we have a character that, while has proven to be "decisive" in certain battles, has no tangible feats, neither in the past nor in the present. His role in the war against nemesis isn't noteworthy when he might as well have been in dragon form for most of the fights. 

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if we're talking canon strong, I'd say:

Edelgard: 8/10

She's known to be exceptionally skilled and powerful, specifically by Ferdinand, but she's considered a viable threat by all others on the other routes. With her dual crests, she's downright legendary. However able to turn a battlefield SOLELY on her own? I think that keeps her from a 9 from me, because I think Byleth is canonically supposed to be that warrior. And without Byleth, I don't know if she singlehandedly is that strong.

Dimitri: 9/10

He breaks things by accident because he's so strong. I think he's by far the strongest canonically. Does he know how to USE his strength? Debatable. But I think he could take down a battefield alone if angry enough.

Claude: 6.5/10

He's definitely skilled, but I never got the impression he was necessarily strong. He was brains over brawn. I considered him the 'average' one of the lords in terms of actual strength. I think he could turn a battlefield from the sidelines, but on the actual field? Not so much.

Seteth: 7.5/10

I think he used to be a 9, but in terms of where he sits currently, I always got the impression he was older, and without his dragon form he was merely an experienced fighter, not necessarily a particularly STRONG one. 

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From a purely logistical view, anything that can fly is going to have a massive advantage over anything that can't. The games are balanced so that any unit can just walk up and attack a wyveren, but in reality ground based units simply have no effective means of damaging a flying unit, especially the likes of Claude who can just pelt arrows from a safe distance (assuming he has the skill to even draw a bow from dragon back). And it's not just a case where flying units have to stick close to the ground, we see them flying very high, ridiculously high, multiple times in the series. Looking at things canonically, flying units are always considered a massive advantage utilized by a very militarized nation. The in universe balancing of such units is no doubt due to their economic cost and how crazy skilled a rider would need to be to effectively use them. So Claude and then Seteh get my vote for being significantly stronger (for a given definition of strength) over the other two. Doesn't help that neither Dimitri nor Edelgard's weapons are long ranged (not that a hand axe would stand much chance of hitting a dragon. Nothing short of a long bow would stand any chance). The only thing that would help them is if we accept as canon that they have their enemy only Distant Counter ability to call down lightning in response to anyone who attacks them.

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Not sure about numeric scores, but I definitely think Seteth is being overrated here; he explicitly can't transform into a dragon any more so I don't think he deserves credit for whatever he did in the backstory, and I don't see any reason to believe he's anything more than a highly skilled crest-wielding warrior, which pales compared to the plot accomplishments of Dimitri and Edelgard at least. Claude's hard to rate, you said "strong' which makes me not want to give Claude credit for his shrewdness, but he could potentially rise a fair bit depending on how you feel about that of course.

Remind me, why can't he (and Flayn) take on a dragon form?

Edited by Jotari

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Remind me, why can't he (and Flayn) take on a dragon form?

Degeneration? Maybe the saints had a choice to either keep their beast or their human forms. The one who didn't feel comfortable around humans lived on as beast while Seteth and Flayn chose the human option. 

Though its possible Flayne could never turn into a dragon to begin with since she's only a half dragon. 

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Honestly, I think people easily overlook or underplay Edelgard and hype up Dimitri cause of how they are. Dimitri legit has no control over himself, so he breaks thinks too easily and also shows off his feats of strength. However, Edelgard is the opposite. She dislikes and wishes to hold back her strength and therefore doesn't make a show of it. 

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Degeneration? Maybe the saints had a choice to either keep their beast or their human forms. The one who didn't feel comfortable around humans lived on as beast while Seteth and Flayn chose the human option. 

Though its possible Flayne could never turn into a dragon to begin with since she's only a half dragon. 

Well Rhea clearly was able to maintain both. Is it ever actually stated that Seteth can't take a dragon form? I mean we can probably infer that he can't because he never does even when you kill him, but does the game ever confirm that he's unable to? I was tossing around the idea in my head that he could have made a decent final boss for Crimson Flowers if the story continued to the standard route length after it's current ending by wrapping up the Slitherers plot and using him for the mandatory massive final confrontation. As narratively appropriate as it is for Rhea to be the final boss, we already face her on the Church route (granted if either of them to be changed it's better of being the church route given how random the final battle is there).

I'm rambling a bit. TL;DR, when does the game confirm Seteth (or Flayn) can't turn into a dragon.

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

when does the game confirm Seteth (or Flayn) can't turn into a dragon.

When the party return to Garreg Mach after the destruction of Shambala, however he only say so for himself, not Flayn.

  • In terms of pure martial prowess, Dimitri is head and shoulders above the others three, not only his strength but also in terms of durability and even technique. However, he is also limited to melee infantry and has limited option for range.
  • Edelgard really pale compared to Dimitri, she is slower, has less reach and is weaker; her armor do make her more durable, but Dimitri is already very durable to begin with.
  • Claude is below the two in pure martial prowess, but he make up for it with the ability to wield a bow on the back of a wyvern, which make him unmatchable in terms of range.
  • Seteth is a seasoned veteran, he has far more experience than any of three could every hope to approach and has virtually no weakness, on top of having a pure Crest and the ability to sleep out of injury (tho that's probably not useful in a straight fight). 

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25 minutes ago, Soroen said:

When the party return to Garreg Mach after the destruction of Shambala, however he only say so for himself, not Flayn.

  • In terms of pure martial prowess, Dimitri is head and shoulders above the others three, not only his strength but also in terms of durability and even technique. However, he is also limited to melee infantry and has limited option for range.
  • Edelgard really pale compared to Dimitri, she is slower, has less reach and is weaker; her armor do make her more durable, but Dimitri is already very durable to begin with.
  • Claude is below the two in pure martial prowess, but he make up for it with the ability to wield a bow on the back of a wyvern, which make him unmatchable in terms of range.
  • Seteth is a seasoned veteran, he has far more experience than any of three could every hope to approach and has virtually no weakness, on top of having a pure Crest and the ability to sleep out of injury (tho that's probably not useful in a straight fight). 

The script to the game doesn't seem to be added in any conveniently found place yet, so I'll just have to take your word for it.

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5 hours ago, Jotari said:

From a purely logistical view, anything that can fly is going to have a massive advantage over anything that can't. The games are balanced so that any unit can just walk up and attack a wyveren, but in reality ground based units simply have no effective means of damaging a flying unit, especially the likes of Claude who can just pelt arrows from a safe distance (assuming he has the skill to even draw a bow from dragon back). And it's not just a case where flying units have to stick close to the ground, we see them flying very high, ridiculously high, multiple times in the series. Looking at things canonically, flying units are always considered a massive advantage utilized by a very militarized nation. The in universe balancing of such units is no doubt due to their economic cost and how crazy skilled a rider would need to be to effectively use them. So Claude and then Seteh get my vote for being significantly stronger (for a given definition of strength) over the other two. Doesn't help that neither Dimitri nor Edelgard's weapons are long ranged (not that a hand axe would stand much chance of hitting a dragon. Nothing short of a long bow would stand any chance). The only thing that would help them is if we accept as canon that they have their enemy only Distant Counter ability to call down lightning in response to anyone who attacks them.

If we go by that route, wyverns can't reasonably fight inside a building or in a forest (not even large birds of prey can really fly in a forest, let alone dragons) so it became terrain based. Also, super strenght should allow you to throw javelins/hand axes at them.

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3 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

If we go by that route, wyverns can't reasonably fight inside a building or in a forest (not even large birds of prey can really fly in a forest, let alone dragons) so it became terrain based. Also, super strenght should allow you to throw javelins/hand axes at them.

This is true, and is precisely why forests have evasion bonuses and dismount is a feature in some games (though not three houses, granted).

Super strength is not the issue. Humans can throw things really, really far under the right conditions, the furthermost being throwing a boomerang half a kilometer. No, the issue is accuracy. Trying to hit a flying target with a thrown weapon would be nightmarish. If Edelgard or Dimitri can throw a weapon so accurately and with so much power, then they're basically no longer melee combatants as a simple hand axe is the equivalent of a gun. And since both of them use one range prf weapons, I'm guessing canonically that's not the case.

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I don't think hitting a flying target whit a javelin is significantly harder than hitting someone whit an huge shield from the back of a dragon. Whitout guided weapons they flyer can safely hit whitout risking getting hit. And even in canon there is not a single lord that always used just their legendary weapon. 

Also, super strong archers are my headcanon on why warfare in fe is in a medieval stasis lol. 

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

This is true, and is precisely why forests have evasion bonuses and dismount is a feature in some games (though not three houses, granted).

Super strength is not the issue. Humans can throw things really, really far under the right conditions, the furthermost being throwing a boomerang half a kilometer. No, the issue is accuracy. Trying to hit a flying target with a thrown weapon would be nightmarish. If Edelgard or Dimitri can throw a weapon so accurately and with so much power, then they're basically no longer melee combatants as a simple hand axe is the equivalent of a gun. And since both of them use one range prf weapons, I'm guessing canonically that's not the case.

The thing is, how high do the riders have to be to be safe? Can they even attack in an effective way in that position?

Having a wyvern is a huge bonus for sure, but when we know that at least certain characters have super human abilities, the gap gets closer, be it super strenght,  being able to jump like 10 meters or whatever. No matter how high they are, Seteth HAS to come down to attack, and I'd bet that both Edelgard and Dimitri have the power and skill to deal with both the wyvern and it's rider. To an extent the same goes for Claude, shooting from a wyvern will be enough to deal with a lot of people, but he would have to use more risky strategies if he wants to best both of them.

That aside, it seems like people really aren't taking having the crest of flames and the crest of seiros as the huge deal it is lore wise.

@omegaxis1 What scores would you give them though?

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2 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

@omegaxis1 What scores would you give them though?

I guess I never gave my own scores.

For Claude, he'd be a 7 or 8. He is a skilled tactician, and not to mention Failnaught is a very powerful weapon. However, Claude is not that strong overall compared to the others due to how he isn't someone that fights someone head on. So in comparison to the likes of the others, he's arguably the weakest one.

Seteth would be an 8 or 9. He cannot go dragon, but he is still someone with plenty of wisdom and skill. His experience would definitely make him a worthy adversary. We should keep in mind that he fought in the War of Heroes, which spanned for 60+ years. Not something anyone can just overlook, really.

Dimitri is a 10. I mean, the absurd raw strength he possesses is unreal, and Edelgard admitted that his obsession made him survive some hits that normal people would die from. So he's got a case of being so damn stubborn to die. I would say that Dimitri's raw physical strength outstrips legit every other FE lord easily. And the slithers did want to manipulate Dimitri to try and kill Edelgard, so at the very least, even if Dimitri is inferior to Edelgard overall, he can at the very least inflict damage to her.

Edelgard is an 11. Yes, literally breaking the scale. Keep in mind that in literally every route, Edelgard is only able to be defeated if you have Byleth at your side, who is literally god. Bearing the Crest of Flames, she is already the most powerful human being in the world, as Sothis's Crest makes one superior to every other Crest by default. And she also bears a Minor Crest of Seiros, and keep in mind that Seiros is the only one that was able to defeat Nemesis. So even more power to her. The fact that the slithers wanted someone to bear the Crest of Flames before they would even try to make a move on taking their revenge on Rhea goes to show how nothing except a Crest of the goddess herself can stand to hope to best Rhea. 

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A new day and a new batch of characters. Lets take a loot at Ferdinand von Aegir, Ashe, Hilda and Hanneman

Ferdinand von Aegir: 7,5/10

Ferdinand seems like a very solid all rounder. Being skilled in all three main physical weapons and having no real weakness suggest Ferdinand is a very versatile and skilled fighter. Aside from being skilled all around Ferdinand also possesses a crest of Cichol. Ferdinand might be the noblest of nobles but he has also shown the skill to rise up in a meritocracy. Edelgard doesn't like Ferdinand and detests his family for very good reasons. Even after having his title revoked Ferdinand still managed to rise to the position as general. Given their relation its doubtful Edelgard did him any special favors so he likely reached this position by pure skill. 

The main thing holding Ferdinand back is that he lacks a bit of ''oomph''. He's likely a good margin above average but not the strongest person on the field. Still Ferdinand comes off as a very skilled fighter with no real weakness. He is Ferdinand von Aegir. 

Ashe: 6/10

There isn't much to suggest Ashe is all that strong and plenty to suggest he one of the weaker Lions. Ashe is like the kid brother of the group. He's the youngest male and the shortest one by a good margin. He's still very young and inexperienced, and Ashe sometimes states he isn't physically powerful which his light build would suggest. Even when Felix praises him he tellingly compares Ashe to a devoted squire. 

Ashe has one of the most common backgrounds. He didn't have any fancy noble training nor did he need to hunt or fight to survive. He did lean how to steal but being a thief typically means you avoid fights. Even with Lonato he seemed more like a page than a squire. So Ashe's experience would likely be almost non existent before coming to the monastery. 

Then again there's also nothing suggesting Ashe is particularly weak either. He's never depicted as not pulling his weight or needing protection and no one really talks down to his skill. 

If nothing suggest Ashe is strong or weak than an average 6 seems like a fair score. Maybe he'll have grown up into a solid 7 after the timeskip. 

Hilda! Hilda!: 8/10

Hilda is likely one of the more powerful Deers. I'd say its even something of an established trait that she's very capable of taking charge and tearing the enemy a new one, she just prefers not to do it. But many times in the story Hilda does step up and she does so very well. When she went to Fodlan's locket she impressed Holst who's normally pretty critical of her and she defends Claude at Derdriu in the Blue Lions route. 

Not only does Hilda have a crest but she also wields a divine relic. And while not as crafty as Claude Hilda can be pretty shrewd at times. Plus her act might just convince half of her opponents to lower their guard. I guess my main reason for scoring her that highly aside from the relic is that the idea of someone being really capable when they stop being lazy is just very interesting and amusing to me. 

I'd say Hilda is quite powerful. Hilda! Hilda!

Hanneman: 7/10

Hanneman says something interesting when he's defeated in the mock battle. ''My goodness....the skill of someone with actual battlefield experience. I was as good as useless''. This statement implies that battlefield experience isn't something that Hanneman has all that much. He's primarily a researcher and a teacher while fighting is a much less significant part of his life. Part of the reason might be that he just prefers not to fight all that much but he also doesn't seem the type to train all that often. So in many sense Hanneman is actually somewhat of a ''civilian'' in the grand scheme of Fodlan. 

That's not to say Hanneman is a weakling. Hanneman is still a noble so he must have had some fighting education. His skills being in typically non mage related fields like riding or bows means he might even had some training for knighthood. As a mage Hanneman comes off as versatile and skilled. He wields multiple different elements and can learn Ragnorok, one of the most powerful spells. If intellect makes magic more powerful than Hanneman should be a very good spell caster. 

Hanneman would handle himself just fine in a fight but I don't think he has any ambition to hone himself as a magical warrior. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Ferdinand 6/10: While he is quite an ambitious person in his goals. I don't see it translating it to his fighting abilities. 

Hilda: 7/10: There is a reason that Claude trust her to be the number 2. Having a crest weapon sweetens the deal.

Ashe 5/10: As much as I love the guy I know he's a solid archer overshadowed by better people.

Hanneman: 5/10: Hanneman isn't a fighter by any stretch of the horizon. Decent mage but lacking in combat prowess.

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On 11/27/2019 at 6:47 PM, Flere210 said:

You are shortselling Edelgard quite a bit. The Immaculate One is a certified City Buster simply by powerscaling her whit the ICBMs and you can't beat that thing just by being a good leader. Byleth is unable to beat Nemesis alone and The Immaculate one is above him, and no one else should be canonically able to touch her. For me she is a 9.

Dimitri was killing armored people whit his bare hands before the time skip, but he really lack any big feat and get defeated in any route but his whitout much fanfare. I am more inclined to say 8,5 that can increase if he is sufficiently angry. But then, i can't powerscale the Hegemon to Nemesis/Seiros so i don't know where the Blue Lions stands in general.

Claude could only serves as a distraction for Nemesis and is clearly outmatched by him and Byleth. I would say he is a 7,5.

Sethet is not ****** anymore. He would be an easy 9+, but Sethet lost most of his power and i don't think he is more than an 8.

 

Dimitri lives long past what he should be able to after suffering numerous fatal wounds, all his deaths involve being overwhelmed by numbers such as ambushed by cavalry and impaled numerous times before going down, in CF when he should be long past dead he is able to have words with Edelgard and only dies when decapitated. Powerscaling is a shitty way to properly measure power especially when any feats by Edelgard is hampered by the fact that she has a literal god backing her in those scenes. Dimitri is absolutely a more dangerous fighter. That said if I were to use Total War Three Kingdoms as a way to describe them, Dimitri is a Champion/vanguard, Edelgard is more of a Sentinel/vanguard, and Claude is a clear Commander/strategist. One is a pure meat blender, the other just outlasts everyone, and Claude is better for how he tricks and uses others than as a pure combatant.

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hrm...yeah Seteth may be overrated here, assuming we're talking about the present Fodlan and not 1000 years ago. In his A support with Catherine, he gets badly injured trying to keep up with her in battle. And according to her it was a small skirmish, not something worth dying over. I do think Seteth's greatest theoretical asset is that 1000+ years of potential war experience. But he hadn't been fighting all that time. We don't know when Seteth hung up his weapons in favor of a desk job at the Monastery, but remember also he presumably sleeps for generations at a time to stave off degeneration and keep his identity a secret, so it begs the question how many battles he really has seen in that time. Personally I'd grant him a 6.5. It's his major crest and ready access to an excellent relic that pushes him past average in the end.

As for the current crew:

  • Ashe is a 3.5. He's got no crest, I presume he didn't get any inheritance from Lonato to buy some fancy weapon, but his background and underdog status probably inspires him to topple opponents of much greater physical strength.
  • Hanneman is a 2.5. He's very old. By his own admission he lacks real battle experience. His knowledge of magic and crests may be among the best of any in or around the monastery, but magic takes a toll on the body just as much as any physical action. He'd make a great teacher but alone he'd get cut down the moment somebody closes the distance on him.
  • I don't have any real points against Ferdinand. He has a minor version of Seteth's crest, his nobility is stripped from him in all four routes so he has to work for everything as of the time skip. I don't imagine he'll get his hands on the Spear of Assal outside of prying it from Seteth's dead fingers. But he apparently has no weaknesses in combat prospects. In his C support with Byleth he picks a fight with two demonic beasts and fails until Byleth can rescue him. And in his B support with Edelgard, she defeats him in a single blow. However, it's hard to pick a better rival than somebody as strong as her and his fixation on surpassing her probably led him to being a stronger combatant than he could be expected to become. He's a 5.5.
  • Hilda's a 4.5. Minor crest and insane relic aside, even after the time skip she still shirks on training and lacks a drive to achieve something greater than her brother. While her in game stats are excellent, I think if you give more credence to the narrative she'll get cut down fairly quick if we assume a setting in which she doesn't receive backup. And even if battalions are considered her weakness in authority is absolute.

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18 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I don't think hitting a flying target whit a javelin is significantly harder than hitting someone whit an huge shield from the back of a dragon. Whitout guided weapons they flyer can safely hit whitout risking getting hit. And even in canon there is not a single lord that always used just their legendary weapon. 

Also, super strong archers are my headcanon on why warfare in fe is in a medieval stasis lol. 

 

14 hours ago, Sbuscoz said:

The thing is, how high do the riders have to be to be safe? Can they even attack in an effective way in that position?

Having a wyvern is a huge bonus for sure, but when we know that at least certain characters have super human abilities, the gap gets closer, be it super strenght,  being able to jump like 10 meters or whatever. No matter how high they are, Seteth HAS to come down to attack, and I'd bet that both Edelgard and Dimitri have the power and skill to deal with both the wyvern and it's rider. To an extent the same goes for Claude, shooting from a wyvern will be enough to deal with a lot of people, but he would have to use more risky strategies if he wants to best both of them.

That aside, it seems like people really aren't taking having the crest of flames and the crest of seiros as the huge deal it is lore wise.

@omegaxis1 What scores would you give them though?

The difference is that the person with the flying mount can dive bomb. They have the initiative. They get to choose how to engage the combat. Consider it this way, a simple hand gun can, surprisingly easily, take down an air plane. But between someone with a handgun and someone in a fighter jet, who do you think has the advantage? This goes especially true for Claude who can attack without getting into melee range of his enemies at all. But even with Seteth dive bombing someone with an axe when you're using a freaking dragon is going to be an overwhelming advantage (although in reality, he will be attacking with the dragon and not the actual weapon he's holding, because trying to use any weapon other than a projectile or a jousting lance from dragonback is pretty unfeasible).

14 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

 

Hanneman: 7/10

Hanneman says something interesting when he's defeated in the mock battle. ''My goodness....the skill of someone with actual battlefield experience. I was as good as useless''. This statement implies that battlefield experience isn't something that Hanneman has all that much. He's primarily a researcher and a teacher while fighting is a much less significant part of his life. Part of the reason might be that he just prefers not to fight all that much but he also doesn't seem the type to train all that often. So in many sense Hanneman is actually somewhat of a ''civilian'' in the grand scheme of Fodlan. 

That's not to say Hanneman is a weakling. Hanneman is still a noble so he must have had some fighting education. His skills being in typically non mage related fields like riding or bows means he might even had some training for knighthood. As a mage Hanneman comes off as versatile and skilled. He wields multiple different elements and can learn Ragnorok, one of the most powerful spells. If intellect makes magic more powerful than Hanneman should be a very good spell caster. 

Hanneman would handle himself just fine in a fight but I don't think he has any ambition to hone himself as a magical warrior. 

Hannerman doesn't have much battlefield experience, that is true. However, I think this is also true for all of his competitors and almost every playable character in the cast. The third chapter of the game is basically dedicated to showing how all the playable characters except Byleth are inexperienced. Hannerman gets less experience during the skirmishes in Part 1, but if we're taking characters by their endgame or maximum potential, then he probably has just as much experience as anyone else, having just fought in a war for five years. He's also clearly trained how to use a bow, which in my book puts him above pretty much any melee unit (the likes of Edelgard and Dimitri included). The history of warfare is a history of trying to perfect cheap and effective projectile weapons. If you can kill something from a distance then there's no good reason to kill them up close.

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

 

  • I don't have any real points against Ferdinand. He has a minor version of Seteth's crest, his nobility is stripped from him in all four routes so he has to work for everything as of the time skip. I don't imagine he'll get his hands on the Spear of Assal outside of prying it from Seteth's dead fingers. But he apparently has no weaknesses in combat prospects. In his C support with Byleth he picks a fight with two demonic beasts and fails until Byleth can rescue him. And in his B support with Edelgard, she defeats him in a single blow. However, it's hard to pick a better rival than somebody as strong as her and his fixation on surpassing her probably led him to being a stronger combatant than he could be expected to become. He's a 5.5.

If I remember rightly, that specific B support also comes with a hefty does of sue praise for Ferdinand. Edelgard says she defeated him in one blow because she absolutely couldn't afford to fight him without holding back. Which means she considers himself near her level (and also losing to two demonic beasts doesn't really suggest anything, since in canon it likely takes multiple fighters to take a single demonic beast down).

Edited by Jotari

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Ferdinand: 7,5/10

He is skilled, something kinda obvious if he was able to ryse in a meritocracy, and has talent in every field that matters for him in combat. Having a crest is also quite a good bonus, but the lack of a real relick hurts his potential. Being a mounted unit is also a bonus.

Ashe: 6/10

With no mention, as far as I know, of being particularly skilled, no crest and therefore no relic, he has nothing that makes him go above this rank. Still, he should be capable enough to hold his own in combat. Average suits him just fine, so 6.

Hilda: 7,5/10

She is shown to be actually really talented despite her lazyness, and has a crest and relic, but I don't know how much her presence would actually affect the battles.

Hanneman: 4,5/10

If he was mostly useless in a mook battle, he'd probably be a burden in a real war. Theorical knowledge doesn't always translate to practice, and he is a very obvious example, being more of a researcher than an actual mage. Still, he has a crest, so he should be able of staying alive for a while. 

 

14 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Edelgard is an 11. Yes, literally breaking the scale. Keep in mind that in literally every route, Edelgard is only able to be defeated if you have Byleth at your side, who is literally god. Bearing the Crest of Flames, she is already the most powerful human being in the world, as Sothis's Crest makes one superior to every other Crest by default. And she also bears a Minor Crest of Seiros, and keep in mind that Seiros is the only one that was able to defeat Nemesis. So even more power to her. The fact that the slithers wanted someone to bear the Crest of Flames before they would even try to make a move on taking their revenge on Rhea goes to show how nothing except a Crest of the goddess herself can stand to hope to best Rhea. 

Hmm, so you think Edelgard would be able of going through the same trials as say, Anri ,for example, and do better? She needed Byleth to win against Rhea's dragon form after all.

 

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The difference is that the person with the flying mount can dive bomb. They have the initiative. They get to choose how to engage the combat. Consider it this way, a simple hand gun can, surprisingly easily, take down an air plane. But between someone with a handgun and someone in a fighter jet, who do you think has the advantage? This goes especially true for Claude who can attack without getting into melee range of his enemies at all. But even with Seteth dive bombing someone with an axe when you're using a freaking dragon is going to be an overwhelming advantage (although in reality, he will be attacking with the dragon and not the actual weapon he's holding, because trying to use any weapon other than a projectile or a jousting lance from dragonback is pretty unfeasible).

Sure, I'm not saying that it isn't an advantage, I agree that any wyvern rider should be relatively high ranked, as something as simple as diving would be enough to deal with most opponents, but when we begin talk about characters at Edelgard and Dimitri's level, I feel like they have the actual power, skill and experience to deal with that gap, kind of like Ryoma does in the FEW cutscene. Of course, Seteth and Claude are much better than random wyvern riders, but I don't think the lords would have much of a problem dealing with the physical side of the dragons, unlike say, today's characters.

Claude attacking from affar is something I see as a stalemate, Edelgard and Dimitri would have a hard time reaching him for sure, but I can't see Claude hitting them easily. That's just my opinion though.

 

Edited by Sbuscoz

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