Story tropes that you never get tired of

[Sidereal Wraith]

I’d like to see or read more stories were the main character(s) are evil.

[Lord Otto]

For me personally I love anti villains, and the main characters being the "villains". Basically I love stories here you are the villain but trying to make the world or nation a better place no matter the costs. 

[TheGoodHoms]

Paragons, no contest. Heroes who's convictions never falter in the face of evil will always be inspiring to me.

[null]

Villains who aren't actually bad people, they just went down the wrong path due to outside circumstances: Anakin Skywalker is one of the first to come to mind. Out of the fear of losing yet another person he loved, he embarked on a path of both self-destruction and external destruction, eventually causing a large part of the galaxy to fall under the subjugation of the Galactic Empire. But power wasn't what he wanted, per se. He just wanted stability and security in his circumstances and within himself. He was an individual who experienced incredibly strong emotions and traumas yet was repeatedly told to repress them because "it is not the Jedi way." That just isn't healthy and is just one of the reasons why he became the mass murderer and tyrant that he devolved into.

The person who puts on a front, regardless of what it is (faked happiness, harshness, coldness, etc.), to guard themselves from being hurt: One of my favorite Awakening kids is Inigo (check profile pic), and one of the biggest reasons is his depth of character. He's not just a harmless, insatiable flirt, he's a guy who's been dealt a bad hand in life, losing both of his parents to some unstoppable force beyond his control and working overtime to make himself appear happy for his own sake and for the sake of those around him (Inigo and Lucina's supports particularly show this). This is why my favorite support for him is his support with whoever his father is. He expresses genuine emotional vulnerability and is made a much more endearing character for it. Yeah, and I love Severa (RobinxSevera OTP) for this reason as well, except she goes full on tsun tsun because of it compared to Inigo's forced happiness. Actually, I really like tsunderes in general because of this, although not every tsundere is guarded to not be hurt. Sometimes they're just bad with emotions.

Good characters with a tragic flaw: Dimitri from Three Houses is the perfect example of this.

Spoiler

He suffers a perpetual struggle within himself to seek revenge for the lives of those he lost when he was younger, to the point of expressing violent tendencies and ultimately descending into an animalistic madness because of it. But, with the help of his friends, he overcomes it and (depending on the path you chose) will fight for and win Fodlan's freedom.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, twilitfalchion said:

The person who puts on a front, regardless of what it is (faked happiness, harshness, coldness, etc.), to guard themselves from being hurt: One of my favorite Awakening kids is Inigo (check profile pic), and one of the biggest reasons is his depth of character. He's not just a harmless, insatiable flirt, he's a guy who's been dealt a bad hand in life, losing both of his parents to some unstoppable force beyond his control and working overtime to make himself appear happy for his own sake and for the sake of those around him (Inigo and Lucina's supports particularly show this). This is why my favorite support for him is his support with whoever his father is. He expresses genuine emotional vulnerability and is made a much more endearing character for it. Yeah, and I love Severa (RobinxSevera OTP) for this reason as well, except she goes full on tsun tsun because of it compared to Inigo's forced happiness. Actually, I really like tsunderes in general because of this, although not every tsundere is guarded to not be hurt. Sometimes they're just bad with emotions.

I really like these kinds of characters as well. I just really like characters who have a hard time expressing how they truly feel. Severa and Inigo are both like that but they both deal with it in different ways which is why the two compliment each other really well. Again there's a very good reason Severa is my favorite character of all time. The tsundere archetype in general is like this. They just have hard time really expressing their true feelings or vulnerability so they put up an abrasive front in order to hide it 

[vanguard333]

On 4/28/2020 at 5:35 PM, TheGoodHoms said:

Paragons, no contest. Heroes who's convictions never falter in the face of evil will always be inspiring to me.

Yes; I like paragons as well. I really like characters who do good because they see good needing to be done, and act as a catalyst for character development in other characters through example and inspiration. 

My favourite example of a paragon in fiction is Ike from Path of Radiance. Ike very much is a paragon, and a great example of one, as I've stated before in other topics, so I'll quote what I said there:

Quote

Ike is actually a really good example of a paragon. Apart from his personal vendetta with the Black Knight, everything he does, he does because he sees good needing to be done. He is blunt and reckless, yet his kindness and compassion, and the way he sees everyone as an equal, makes him extremely charismatic. By chapter 18 of Path of Radiance, the Black Knight notes that, "Though his skill with the blade is rough, there is something...uncanny about him. People seem drawn to him. And not just Begnion's apostle, either. He's also gained the trust of the Serenes survivors...and of King Phoenicis as well." No matter how much Ike's bluntness and lack of social etiquette may infuriate people, all Ike ever has to do is swing his sword around and act all blunt yet kind, and people from all across Tellius flock to his side like it's the right thing to do, because of how much of a paragon Ike is.

The way Ike inspires people is probably most evident in Soren and Elincia. Ike gives Elincia a much needed confidence boost throughout all of Path of Radiance, and he brings about quite a bit of character development in Soren as well, especially if one reads the support conversations between them. But Ike's impact on other characters' development is far from limited to Soren and Titania; Reyson, Sothe, and many others become inspired by him. 

This doesn't stop him from being flawed. Paragon characters aren't perfect; usually they're very stubborn and reluctant to change their ways if there's something wrong with what they're doing, because they're so certain they're doing the right thing. Ike is no exception: he is extremely reckless and gets in and out of a lot of trouble because of it. But, unlike a lot of FE lords, Ike learns from his mistakes. He sees where he's messed up, and learns from it, and is even willing to change his viewpoint about stuff if what he originally thought is proven wrong. Early on in chapter... 11 I think, he admits to falling into the trap of thinking, "Crimea = good, Daein = bad" because of the war. But, when he sees that that viewpoint is wrong, he learns from it and acts against that viewpoint. He learns, and his struggle to learn from his mistakes is really well done. 

Ike is a really effective example of a paragon character in Path of Radiance, and to an extent in RD, though it isn't shown nearly as much in RD. 

 

[SSbardock84]

Most of what's used in popular shonen manga like DBZ, Naruto, or One Piece. I know a lot of fans tire of it, but I never have and I don't think I will anytime soon. Also medieval fantasy tropes. I think people complain far too much when people say something is cliche or overdone in medieval fantasy. Personally I think there is a lot of uniqueness to a lot of stuff and I think a great example is Lord of the Rings. It starts pretty straightforward with the hero's journey but it pulls some amazing surprises and endings that you wouldn't expect when "knowing" medieval fantasy. I think a lot of series end far less cliche than people say. Like Return of the Jedi and then theres . . . Rise of Skywalker which defines predictability and cliches.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

14 minutes ago, SSbardock84 said:

Most of what's used in popular shonen manga like DBZ, Naruto, or One Piece. I know a lot of fans tire of it, but I never have and I don't think I will anytime soon. Also medieval fantasy tropes. I think people complain far too much when people say something is cliche or overdone in medieval fantasy. Personally I think there is a lot of uniqueness to a lot of stuff and I think a great example is Lord of the Rings. It starts pretty straightforward with the hero's journey but it pulls some amazing surprises and endings that you wouldn't expect when "knowing" medieval fantasy. I think a lot of series end far less cliche than people say. Like Return of the Jedi and then theres . . . Rise of Skywalker which defines predictability and cliches.

Yeah, I second medieval fantasy. Especially with Dungeons and Dragons. A lot can still be played with in that game, though.

[StartingArcher]

I really like characters that go from zero to hero. Watching that village kid who’s never fought before turn into a god slaying beast is always amazing.

[henrymidfields]

The protagonist that actually backs off once in a while and have his or her allies help out in progressing the plot or plan, and enjoy the story's spotlight. And showcase good teamwork saving the day. Whether it's Minako, Yu, or Itsuki and their friends.

[Shrow]

I really love the Save the Princess\Damsel in distress trope.

There's something really romantic about a strong honorable knight, risking their lives through many perils always stoic in the face of death, saving an unfortunately princess trapped in a tower.
I don't care what Anita says this is an amazing trope, it's our very human instinct for a strong male to save a female in danger. It's in our genes for crying out loud!

Is the knight guided by his determination, love? Or maybe duty? Or even honor? Ah I love it so much! A knight saving a princess will never get old for me. 
Even if the princess has a cardboard cutout personality

I love the idea of a mysterious knight in shining armour.

Bonnie Tyler was right! I need a Hero!

 

[vanguard333]

On 2/5/2020 at 11:22 AM, Flere210 said:

I also like a lot is when the power of friendship is used the right way. Meaning not "i can suddenly punch 10 times harder because of Ike Smash quote", but a group of people using teamwork, combos and tactic to overcome an enemy that is way above their weight class.  Wich is most likely why i really like Black Clover fights, 90% of the times they are like that. And why the latest chapters of Kimetsu no Yaiba rubbed me the wrong way. 

Something that i like, but as to be executed well, is when everything that happen in the story, including things that seemed random, is revealed as part of a grand Keikaku and it make sense(so not Black Zetsu). It give a lot of rewatch bonus and it make clear how far the author went into constructing a sequence of event that make perfect sense. To Aru Majutsu no index(funny how i keep mentioning shows whit good tsunderes, even if Misaka take 40 volumes to get good) is awesome because on the surface it's just classic LN adventures, but actually the whole story is about an half dozen Aizens out-keikauing each other in a web of master plans. 

I actually started watching Black Clover over the summer and I completely agree; the way they use teamwork and tactics is really fun to watch. I really dislike how so many people dismissed the show as, "an rip-off of every shonen anime, with a protagonist screams too much". It's not unoriginal, and the voice actor really dialed back the shouting after the first couple of episodes.

Also:

Spoiler

What you said about a hidden grand evil plan that makes sense and was executed well reminds me of Zagred: the one who reincarnated the elves. That's not a coincidence; is it?

 

On 10/19/2020 at 12:31 PM, Shrow said:

I really love the Save the Princess\Damsel in distress trope.

The way I see it, there's nothing inherently wrong with a damsel in distress; the story just has to make sure they're still a character with their own agency. If the damsel could easily be replaced with a trophy or a toad without drastically changing the plot, then that's a bit boring to me. 

[Use the Falchion]

Sorry to necro this thread nearly seven months later...

I've come to realize that I really enjoy the whole "group of villagers leave their town - usually by force - and go on an adventure together" trope. Gaiden/Shadows of Valentia has it and I love it there; Valkyria Chronicles 1 has shades of it, and I love it there; and The Wheel of Time has it, and I love it there. I also love when said villagers return home, if only to visit, because it gives the viewers a nice perspective on their growth. The key to this though is that it's not just one villager, but a group - there are dynamics at play there, history to unpack. 

For example, in The Wheel of Time, the five Edmond's Field-ers all leave together: Rand, Perrin, Mat, Nynaeve, and Egwene. As the series goes on, these dynamics both highlight the good and the bad in said characters - Nynaeve's loyalty to her friends outweighs her allegiance to a certain Tower, for better and for worse. Egwene's "history" with Rand (and by "history" it's simply that everyone assumed they would marry when they lived in a small village together, but exploring the world changed that perception) makes it hard for either one to see the growth in the other. But when they do see it, that's all the other can see. Likewise, Nanaeve and Egwene struggle with actually trusting and respecting Mat because they believe he's the same boy they grew up with and not the man he's become. 

There's also something human in those types of stories. Not everyone in those stories can be The Chosen One or Hidden Royalty, so it's just people growing and learning together and sometimes separately, and becoming awesome because of it. That's also one of the many reasons why I love the Mass Effect series. It's just an awesome group of ragtag people/aliens who come together to form a tight-knit and awesome army. Now granted, in both Mass Effect and The Wheel of Time, status, reputation, and nobility find their way to nearly all of the members of the ragtag group, if not all of them. I don't have a problem with this, so long as it's not the starting point for every main character. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Killing gods is always personally gratifying to my atheistic outlook. Also, it's such a natural way to do a final boss because gods are what we think of as being at the top of the power hierarchy.

[Sidereal Wraith]

Characters who are bound to an evil, sentient blade.

[Theolexluna]

Story arcs with seeing different versions of yourself: I'd probably site Fire Emblem Heros Adrift here as an example very good way for Azura to stop telling herself to dream and wake up to reality. Adrift was my favorite paralogue on Fe Heros for that sole reason alone I just wished it was book 4 instead. There's also alternate versions of your self and that's really interesting.

 

The Nightmares/Dream tropes: Citing Fe Heros again I really love Book IV its my favorite book of Fe Heros and the idea of someone usually stuck in a dream and trying to solve it is there. Probably back to first point when the nightmare comes its a relation back to someone's fear or the brain revealing stuff about that you know but don't want to touch. Sharena's way too unsure of the fact that she could've been a fairy but couldn't. 

I must do it: I hate Three Houses writing on Crimson Flower but I like Edelgard as a character there's things she wants to do but she can't because of how society works in Fodlan. I just wish Crimson Flower didn't feel like Twsitd put a gun on her head and say destroy Fodlan one thing for certain she wants a destroyed crest system.

[Lord_Brand]

I really hope I don't regret this, but...here goes.

Damsels in Distress

Spoiler

Yep, that infamous trope feminists love to hate on and 99% of video reviewers love to make fun of. Listening to social media activists, you'd think D.I.D. was the absolute worst trope of all time, the epitome of sexism and "male power fantasy" (because it's not like there aren't any women who fantasize about rescuing other women, right?) that must be retired once and for all if we as a species don't want to drive ourselves and every other intelligent race in the cosmos extinct with our misogynistic, patriarchal chimp ways.

However, I strongly disagree with that sentiment. To me, D.I.D. represents that part of us that is both beautiful and delicate, vulnerable yet compassionate, something the world is always trying to take away and destroy, that we are always fighting to protect. The Damsel represents the gentle, peaceful side of us that doesn't want violence or suffering, just happiness and safety. We all have felt vulnerable or helpless at some point in our lives, and we all have wished someone would come to help us during our hour of greatest need. A well-written Damsel appeals to us because we see a part of ourselves in her.

The D.I.D. trope is not merely a good source of fanservice (because let's be honest, that is almost always a contributing factor), it is also a great way to explore storytelling and character dynamics by putting The Damsel (traditionally, an attractive woman who is romantically involved with the hero at some point) into some kind of peril and then exploring how she and The Hero(es) cope with that. There are so many factors to take into account when writing a D.I.D. scenario:

• Why does/do The Villain(s) take The Damsel prisoner? Is she a heat-of-the-moment hostage to get Captain Justice to back off from the chase? Is she a ransom for the Mayor/the President/whoever the kidnapper seeks to exploit? Is the villain simply a possessive scoundrel who desires The Damsel and is determined to have her by hook or by crook?
• What happens during The Damsel's Distress? Does she learn something she didn't know before? Does she help someone else, at risk to her own well-being? Does the experience change her view of somebody else, or even the world?
• How does The Damsel get away? Is The Damsel able to free herself using her wits and skills, proving her capability? Do her friends go to great lengths to rescue her? Do they use disguises to slip in to where The Damsel is being held captive, or do they charge in guns blazing hoping to keep the enemy disoriented and scattered by the chaos long enough to find her and bail her out? Does The Damsel even make it out alive, or does her story have a tragic end?
• What happens afterward? Just because The Damsel is saved doesn't mean the story's over. Traditionally, stories end with the Damsel being rescued, marrying the hero, and living happily ever after with him. But that kind of storytelling frankly feels rather empty to today's audience. In those kinds of stories, The Damsel is usually barely a presence at all, which has been a major contributing factor to the trope's stigmatized reputation today. A good D.I.D. scenario is one where The Damsel still gets to be her own character with her own purpose in the story, someone who has her own voice and has an impact beyond her role or stint as The Damsel in Distress. In a good D.I.D. scenario, The Damsel matters, both to us the audience and to the characters in the story itself. And to that end, the story needs to have a developed "before" and "after", where The Damsel is properly built up as a character who contributes to the plot just as the Hero(es) and Villain(s) do.

Has the D.I.D. trope been done poorly? Plenty of times, just like every other trope. Can it be done well? Yes, just as any trope can be. The key is to write The Damsel and her Distress such that the audience is captivated and invested in what happens, to her and to the heroes and villains involved with her. That's no small order here, given that many people today have been conditioned to roll their eyes and chafe at the very idea of a D.I.D. scenario, but that just means pulling it off will be all the more rewarding, especially if it means people start to rethink their attitude on the whole D.I.D. trope and maybe realize it can fit into a progressive worldview, indeed that it should fit into a more progressive society that truly welcomes people of all kinds.

Also note that I'm not saying we can't also have "strong, independent" female protagonists, because the two can coexist, just as "strong, independent" male protagonists can coexist with Dudes in Distress. Having a D.I.D. in your story doesn't invalidate the capable female protagonist, and the female protagonist being more capable (or lucky) doesn't invalidate the less capable (or just unlucky) D.I.D. either.

For me, a well-written Damsel in Distress is one of the most interesting characters of all. I never get tired of the D.I.D. trope, it's my favorite story trope of all time. As for my second-favorite...

Romantic Dynamics

Spoiler

I love stories with a male and female lead couple. I love the flirty, affectionate interactions between a guy and a girl who fall in love and grow to love each other. Good romance just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling like nothing else. Note that I said "romantic dynamics", not "romantic sub/plots". I find a story focused solely on a romantic relationship to be a little boring; I prefer romance as a character dynamic, something that defines how two particular characters interact with each other. To give some examples:

• My Hero Academia has romantic tension between Izuku Midoriya and Ochako Uraraka. It's hardly the driving force of the story - that would be Midoriya striving to become a hero and to serve the community as a hero along with the rest of his class - but it makes their interactions cute, sweet, and a treat to watch. The romantic feelings defines their dynamic, but it doesn't take over the plot.
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild has one of the most overt, developed, and believable Link/Zelda relationships of the entire series. Link and Zelda don't start out as lovers or even crushes, indeed Zelda envies Link and grows to resent him at first due to the fact he took to his job as a knight and the Master Sword's chosen so easily while she struggles to awaken her divine powers as her father and her kingdom expects of her. However, eventually Link opens up to her about his own worries which turn out not to be so different from her own, and they begin to bond as friends, with Zelda becoming much more warm and affectionate towards Link, which ultimately plays a role in her finally awakening her powers when she uses them to stop a Guardian from destroying Link outright and subsequently seals Ganon in Hyrule Castle with her, keeping him from destroying the kingdom while Link heals in the Shrine of Resurrection. Here, more than ever before in the Zelda series, Link and Zelda's relationship matters. Where other games use implied romantic feelings (mostly on Zelda's part) as a cute flavoring for their interactions, here Zelda's love for Link literally helped her save him and the rest of the kingdom. Now granted, we don't have confirmation that Link reciprocates Zelda's romantic feelings due to his nature as a silent protagonist, but it's not a stretch to think he might develop such feelings in turn for the beautiful, virtuous woman he's been tasked with protecting and with whom he's become close friends at the very least.
• A lot of modern Disney movies with romantic subplots tend to flesh out both the guy and the girl to a degree where they're interesting as standalone characters yet enjoyable to watch as a couple as well. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan all were early stabs at this with varying degrees of success, but I'd say Princess and the Frog was the first film to really nail it. Tiana and Naveen are both charming characters with their own motives in the plot, and by coming together they help each other find happiness, just as we'd expect from a good romantic relationship. Tiana helps Naveen grow and be less dependent on others, Naveen helps Tiana find the happiness she'd been neglecting in her pursuit of a career. As Tiana and Naveen married, so too did their virtues of responsibility and joy. Tangled, Frozen, and Zootopia all have this to a degree as well, with both the lead guy and lead girl getting plenty of screen time, dynamic interaction, and character development.

A good romance makes you want to see two characters get together and be together, because their interactions make them enjoyable to watch. Each draws out the best qualities of the other and compliments them with their own, creating a chemistry that makes the story more entertaining as a whole. The key to writing good romance is to keep in mind how your prospective lovers will approach a relationship, and what will get them interested in having one. Just as no two people are the same, neither are any two romantic dynamics. Whatever sparks their interest in each other needs to make sense for their characters. And that comes down to what the two want and need in a partner.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

My Hero Academia has romantic tension between Izuku Midoriya and Ochako Uraraka. It's hardly the driving force of the story - that would be Midoriya striving to become a hero and to serve the community as a hero along with the rest of his class - but it makes their interactions cute, sweet, and a treat to watch. The romantic feelings defines their dynamic, but it doesn't take over the plot.

It also helps that being very wholesome is a consistent character trait for the both of them. They're kind of like birds of a feather. They're both wholesome, dorky, expressive and cheerful. Plus Uraraka was the first kid his age who ever gave Midoriya the time of day. 

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

I really hope I don't regret this, but...here goes.

Damsels in Distress

This video suits up the better aspect of the trope pretty well

 

[Lord_Brand]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It also helps that being very wholesome is a consistent character trait for the both of them. They're kind of like birds of a feather. They're both wholesome, dorky, expressive and cheerful. Plus Uraraka was the first kid his age who ever gave Midoriya the time of day. 

This video suits up the better aspect of the trope pretty well

I actually meant to include a link to that video. ^ ^; Thank you!

[ping]

Speaking for myself, I do role my eyes at what the video calls the "damsel mindset", where a captive character loses their agency and gets reduced to a prize for the dashing hero to (re-)claim. In the FE series, I find Celica to be the worst example of this, a good character (the better Valentian protagonist, imo) for most of the game, but she never regains her autonomy after diving headfirst into Jedah's traps.

It's a matter of semantics, I guess, but I don't really think of an actual character who remains an actual character while in distress as a "damsel".

--

Two character archetypes that I almost never dislike:

• The kind giant, tough but not necessarily too bright. Gonzales in BinBla, Hagrid, Banjo Lilywhite (a more villainous version from the Discworld), Minsc (and Boo!) are examples.
• The old mentor / parental figure. Uncle Iroh from ATLA is one of my favourite characters of all time. Muten Roshi is great when he's not completely reduced to sexual harrasment as a joke. On the more obscure end, Donny and Anja Donlan from the webcomic Gunnerkrigg Court also fall under this, even though they're only in their 40s, I think.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

36 minutes ago, pong said:

Speaking for myself, I do role my eyes at what the video calls the "damsel mindset", where a captive character loses their agency and gets reduced to a prize for the dashing hero to (re-)claim. In the FE series, I find Celica to be the worst example of this, a good character (the better Valentian protagonist, imo) for most of the game, but she never regains her autonomy after diving headfirst into Jedah's traps.

I think Wind Waker is an especially noteworthy case where Tetra introduces herself as a sassy, fierce and haughty pirate captain but as soon as she puts on a dress she's suddenly all demure and helpless. 

Which is a shame because Tetra was great and a perfect foil to the overly dorky Toon Link.

[vanguard333]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Wind Waker is an especially noteworthy case where Tetra introduces herself as a sassy, fierce and haughty pirate captain but as soon as she puts on a dress she's suddenly all demure and helpless. 

Which is a shame because Tetra was great and a perfect foil to the overly dorky Toon Link.

Why do so many people interpret that scene that way? Tetra did not become "suddenly all demure and helpless".

One aspect of Tetra's character that was established very early on was that, for all her sassiness and fierceness, she is quick to blame herself for things; when Link's sister gets abducted by the Helmaroc King, Tetra initially refused to help until the Postman pointed out that the bird was originally after Tetra, at which point Tetra immediately agreed to help Link. When Tetra finds out that she's Zelda, it basically sinks in to her that, the whole time, Ganondorf was after her; that all the abductions, as well as Link being pulled into this, were a result of Ganondorf being after her, and she expresses remorse. It's an understandable moment of weakness and remorse.

The next moment that we see Tetra: when she wakes up during the fight against Ganondorf, she's right back to her sassy and fierce self; further reinforcing that before was just one moment of weakness.

 

What I especially don't get is, not only is it a bad interpretation, but there's a game where Tetra is treated far worse: Phantom Hourglass, yet all I ever hear lately is how badly Wind Waker mishandled her character (when it didn't do so at all). Let's not forget that Wind Waker ended on Link and Tetra setting out together, and Phantom Hourglass' idea of following up on that was having Tetra immediately get abducted by Bellum before spending the rest of the game as a statue. The whole thing about a character suddenly having the damsel mindset is that all there agency is lost, and it doesn't get any more agency-reducing than being reduced to a literal block of stone for the entire story.

 

@Lord_Brand Link and Zelda in Breath of the Wild is definitely a good example of a romantic dynamic between characters, but the best example in the Zelda series is undoubtedly Link and Zelda in Spirit Tracks.

Edited November 8, 2021 by vanguard333

[Lord_Brand]

For what it's worth, depending on what kind of situation the damsel is in, there may not be much she can do except wait for rescue. (incoming ramble)

Spoiler

Like, if she's thoroughly and efficiently restrained, no amount of struggling or tugging is going to get her free of the ropes, tape, chains, or whatever other restraints the villain has put her in. And if she mouths off too much, the villain is likely to just gag her and keep her quiet (of course, many times they do that anyway, probably as a precaution). Where the trope becomes egregious is if the damsel is captured too easily (barring situations where she wants to be captured, say as part of a ruse) or if she gets captured due to her own stupidity (aka the Damsel Scrappy). But a female character being held at gunpoint by the bad guys while they tie her up is a perfectly plausible scenario, and if the bad guys have any intelligence they'll make sure to restrain her in such a manner that she can't escape on her own. (Of course, one must take into account any resource limitations the villains may have; it's not like every damsel-napping baddie owns a warehouse full of spare rope, chains, and tape, let alone is carrying them on hand at all times. Sometimes they have to make do with what little is available.)

Beyond that, how the damsel handles her distress is indeed equally important. In a situation where she's restrained, she might test her restraints to see if there's any slack she can take advantage of, or if she's free to squirm and hop around, she might look for anything she can use to free herself like a knife or pair of scissors (though villains should really know better than to leave those within throwing distance of a captive), but after a few seconds she should have figured out whether or not escaping on her own is possible. If not, then we see how she copes with helplessness. If she can communicate with the guards, she might try some kind of ruse to get their attention and create an opening for herself. Otherwise, well...what else can she do? If she's a telepath, she might try contacting her friends mentally, to let them know where she is and what her situation is. If she has some kind of companion - like an animal, fairy, or robot - to relay a message, then she might ask them to contact help (assuming she didn't do so shortly before being captured).

Really, the question isn't whether or not the damsel should be captured (because that can happen to anyone) but rather how the damsel is captured and how she handles it.

A scenario I could suggest is that of a Spy working for The Team who gets captured while feeding them intel on The Enemy's hideout and operations. The Spy is well-trained in stealth, surveillance, and sabotage, but most likely isn't equipped to take on guards armed with assault rifles in a straight fight, so it's possible she may be captured before she can escape, prompting her comrades to undertake a rescue mission to get her out of there alive. The Enemy may interrogate the Spy to try and find out information about her comrades, or they may try to sway the Spy to their side. This allows the Spy an opportunity to make decisions and have an impact on the story even if she's, say, tied to a chair or a pole with no means of freeing herself. She can defy The Enemy and be subject to torture which she tries to endure until help arrives, she can give The Enemy misinformation with the intent to mislead them, she may be tempted to betray The Team depending on her loyalty, or she may play along and make The Enemy think she's defecting to their side so she can stab them in the back at the most opportune moment (and hopefully communicate her intent to The Team so they don't mistake her for an actual traitor). She may be tied up and physically helpless, but she still has some agency within the story in so far as her ability to influence her captors with words.

Of course The Enemy could always decide to gag her as well, taking away what little agency she has left, and leave her in isolation or use her as a hostage or as bait. They may even decide to torment her purely for sadistic pleasure, whether or not she talks.

 

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Wind Waker is an especially noteworthy case where Tetra introduces herself as a sassy, fierce and haughty pirate captain but as soon as she puts on a dress she's suddenly all demure and helpless. 

Which is a shame because Tetra was great and a perfect foil to the overly dorky Toon Link.

Though she does wink at Link during the battle with Ganondorf, just like she did as Tetra, and takes it upon herself to shoot him with Light Arrows while you go all Errol Flynn on him, so she's not completely helpless. Her more demure personality might be a result of her acquiring some knowledge that causes her to adjust her behavior on the spot. Or it could even be a dual personalities kind of deal (though Phantom Hourglass seems to contradict that). Where they really wasted her was the sequel, where she plays the helpless damsel even in her Tetra form.

Spoiler

Since we're talking D.I.D. and Zelda, something I once thought of for a game like BotW or its sequel is a convention where Zelda can be kidnapped by bandits or monsters and brought to a dungeon where the player takes control of her as she tries to escape. Since she's restrained, she usually tries to free herself first, say by using a piece of pottery to cut her ropes or finding the key that unlocks her shackles or what have you. Then she faces the choice of trying to escape the dungeon and reunite with Link, or maybe try to take on the boss of the dungeon herself along with their goons. If she gets recaptured, the bad guys - having learned their lesson from the first time - will restrain her to such a degree that she can't escape on her own, prompting Link to show up and rescue her like usual. But if Zelda succeeds in escaping or defeating the bad guys, Link shows up just in time to find she was able to save herself this time. Zelda might even be able to rescue a fellow prisoner or two, who in turn might try to help her.

Thus, though Zelda can find herself catching the Distress Ball like she often does, she also has the opportunity to be a Damsel Out of Distress, making her part much more dynamic and thrilling, not to mention offering some replay value. Such escape sequences would be good opportunities to bring in some proper stealth mechanics, as Zelda usually isn't a warrior like Link is and so relies on her wits and smarts to escape and outmaneuver her opponents (befitting the Princess associated with Wisdom). If Zelda gets spotted by a guard, the guard will sound the alarm and give chase. Zelda might be able to get away by knocking out her pursuers, luring them into some kind of trap (say, the pressure switch-activated laser security system down the hall) or hiding until they leave the vicinity to look for her elsewhere, but if she's not careful, they'll overwhelm and catch her, and make sure she doesn't pull a second escape act.

Really, all these years of Link sneaking around in stealth sequences might have better suited Zelda or one of her alter egos like Sheik or even Tetra.

 

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Link and Zelda in Breath of the Wild is definitely a good example of a romantic dynamic between characters, but the best example in the Zelda series is undoubtedly Link and Zelda in Spirit Tracks.

That one is more of a cute, sweet friendship, but yes, Spirit Tracks has the most openly affectionate relationship between Link and Zelda. I just chose BotW because that one has open confirmation of romantic interest on Zelda's part. It's just a pity we don't get to see Link return her affections. I'm hoping BotW2 will rectify that, but with the likelihood that Link and Zelda end up separated again, I'm not holding my breath.

[vanguard333]

1 minute ago, Lord_Brand said:

Though she does wink at Link during the battle with Ganondorf, just like she did as Tetra, and takes it upon herself to shoot him with Light Arrows while you go all Errol Flynn on him, so she's not completely helpless. Her more demure personality might be a result of her acquiring some knowledge that causes her to adjust her behavior on the spot. Or it could even be a dual personalities kind of deal (though Phantom Hourglass seems to contradict that). Where they really wasted her was the sequel, where she plays the helpless damsel even in her Tetra form.

That's exactly what it was; as I explained to Etrurian Emperor, by finding out that she's Zelda, it sinks in to her that everything: Aryll and the others being kidnapped and Link being roped into all this, was because Ganondorf was after her, and so, in that moment, she was remorseful and apologetic to Link. It was not out-of-character for Tetra, nor was it her suddenly becoming a demure damsel; it was a moment of remorse after finding out that she inadvertently dragged Link and Aryll into all this.

Yes; Phantom Hourglass was the real waste of Tetra's character. Who was it on the Zelda team that thought: "Okay, Wind Waker ended on Link and Tetra setting out together to find new lands, so the logical progression from that would be for Tetra to spend the sequel as a statue and for Link to explore islands with two other people rather than Tetra and her pirates"? Who thought that was a good idea. Don't get me wrong; Linebeck is a great character, but we really should've gotten a game of Link, Tetra and her pirates.

[Lord_Brand]

Continuing my talk about romance tropes, there are some scenarios in particular I tend to like a lot:

• A moment of quiet tenderness following an action-packed scene. The heroes have recently escaped from the villains after pulling off a successful mission, hiccups though there might have been. Now Bob and Alice have a rare moment to themselves, perhaps standing on a balcony looking out at a nearby lake or sea at night, the moon's reflection shimmering on the water, or standing in a large tree overlooking a beautiful valley. They both savor the chance to just be with each other, getting a break from their respective duties for once. Maybe they talk about matters they'd been reluctant to open up about before. Maybe Alice was hesitant to pursue a relationship with Bob, but realized how close she came to missing her chance with him and decides to stop waiting and just go for it. Alice and Bob have endured an ordeal, and are being rewarded with some peace and quiet to spend with each other.
  • This kind of scene usually occurs later in the story, somewhere around the halfway point.
  • Bonus points if this results in a relationship upgrade or some other positive change in their dynamic.
  • Examples: Disney's Robin Hood (Robin and Marian)
• Alice gently beckoning Bob away from everyone else so she can have a moment with him. Related to the above, maybe the heroes are all celebrating their recent victory over the villains when Alice beckons Bob to come with her. Bob might a little confused at first, or he might pick up that Alice wants some alone time with him. Either way, he complies, and the two of them slip away from the festivities to someplace nice and private where they can, say, watch fireworks together, maybe have their first kiss. Maybe Bob's best friend Charlie notices him leaving with Alice and, knowing what's going on, decides to keep quiet about it while mentally congratulating his buddy. Or the rest of the gang happen across Alice and Bob having a moment and either watch with giddy delight or decide to give them some privacy. The bottom line is, Alice sees an opportunity to have Bob to herself for a little bit and goes for it, leading to a sweet scene like perhaps the one described prior.
  • Examples: Can't really name any, but I must have seen this trope at some point to have a fondness for it.
• Alice and Bob start out as enemies, but become friends and lovers. This one's lengthy, so I put it in spoilers.

Spoiler

• Alice works for The Empire while Bob is one of The Rebels fighting the Empire, and as such the two come to blows on a frequent basis. Alice believes Bob and his fellow Rebels are dangerous anarchists trying to topple a stable government that she isn't aware is corrupt and cruel, while Bob views Alice as yet another minion of the evil Empire that burned down his village and against whom he seeks revenge - but hey, at least she's cuter than most of the imperial grunts he fights on a regular basis. The two of them are likely attracted to each other and might even make the occasional flirty comment at each other, but as far as they're concerned each is the hero of the people they're fighting for and the other is their mortal enemy who must be defeated at all costs.
• But then, something happens that completely changes their perception of one another.
  • Alice learns that Bob's village was burned down in a black ops mission of which she was not aware, opening her eyes to the possibility that her superiors are not the benevolent authority figures she believed them to be.
  • Bob learns that Alice was adopted by a noble soldier of the Empire which planted seeds of loyalty in her heart. However, said soldier was assassinated by the Empire's own forces, who framed the Rebels for the crime, thereby setting Alice against them.
  • Bob goes undercover, encounters Alice while incognito, learns she's actually a really decent person to the commoners living under the Empire's rule, and realizes she's not really a bad person herself. Alice openly displays fondness for Bob's alternate persona, unaware that he's the guy she tried to capture and/or kill just yesterday. Bob realizes that he and Alice actually get along really well when they're not actively fighting for opposing teams.
  • During one of their many battles, they both discover a nearby village is in danger and drop everything to help the villagers.
  • Alice herself winds up in some manner of peril, like being attacked by a hostile creature, leading to Bob saving her life. As thanks, Alice might give Bob a head-start to get away.
  • Conversely, Alice might save Bob's life as a way of showing she doesn't want him dead. She'll still try to capture him of course, especially if he's in a weakened state.
  • If Bob is badly wounded in the process of saving her life, she might repay the favor by administering first aid to him, prioritizing saving a life over capturing an enemy. The reverse can also apply, with Bob administering first aid to Alice.
  • If Bob has a chance to capture Alice, he chooses to let her go instead. This likely gets him chewed out by his comrades due to Alice being a high-ranking member of the Empire and thus a major asset to neutralize, however Alice walks away with a different perception of Bob than she had before, seeing that he's capable of exercising mercy even when it's not strategically viable for him to do so.
• What happens next tends to vary wildly. Any of the following may occur:
  • Bob starts acting oddly cordial towards Alice during their subsequent encounters, dropping the flirty, sarcastic remarks and showing genuine respect, maybe even concern for her. Maybe he strikes up a mid-battle conversation with her about a subject they'd chatted amicably about during his incognito mission.
  • Alice realizes with shock that the nice guy she practically dated during her off-time was her nemesis Bob undercover, and she feels a little bit of revulsion, even anger, at the deception.
  • Alice ends up capturing Bob, or her comrades do so while she has Bob distracted. If Alice's superiors know of her relationship with Bob, they may use it to set a trap for him using Alice as unwary bait. Alice will likely feel betrayed over being used in such a way, once she learns of the ploy.
  • Bob and/or his comrades capture Alice, and she gets a chance to witness their friendly, rag-tag dynamic. She likely will act cold and aloof during her captivity, even when they show her kindness, though watching them interact with one another might fill her with a sense of longing in the event she has few friends of her own.
  • Alice tries to convince Bob to join the Empire out of respect for his valor not to mention a secret desire to have him by her side. Maybe Bob in turn tries to convince Alice to join the Rebels for much the same reasons, informing her that the Empire is just using her as a pawn.
  • In the event Bob is captured, Alice witnesses her fellow imperials torturing Bob for kicks, making her feel sorry for him, even guilty for helping to capture him (especially if it happened because she was trying to see him in secret). She might end up freeing Bob and either escape with him or remain behind to buy him some time and face the consequences of her actions, or she might leave to warn Bob's comrades that he's been captured and offer to help them rescue him (most likely failing to earn their trust at first for obvious reasons).
• Whatever goes down, Alice and Bob realize that they don't need to be enemies anymore, and would much rather be friends.
  • Alice and Bob might continue playing the roles they have been to keep anyone from finding out about their new affair, but are no longer interested in defeating each other. They might take steps to ensure the other doesn't get hurt, and they may go so far as to try to manipulate their respective sides into resolving the conflict with minimal casualties. And of course they'll try to meet up in secret when they have the opportunity.
  • Alice might decide to quit the Empire and join the Rebels or become a neutral party (if it's the latter, it's usually due to lingering loyalty towards the Empire or conflicting feelings about the entire ordeal).
  • Rarely, both characters may decide they're no longer interested in fighting the war, and decide to quit and run off together to seek out a more peaceful life together while their former comrades blow each other to bits (but given that the Rebels are usually the more sympathetic side for whom Bob feels a great deal of camaraderie, Bob would likely look like a selfish traitor for deserting them, hence why this is a rare scenario).
• Regardless of the specifics, this can be a great way to have a love interest who's dynamically involved in the story while also providing room for moral complexity (though that tends to work better if Alice isn't literally the only decent imperial soldier or servant).
• Note that this trope only works if both Alice and Bob are shown to be decent, sympathetic individuals from the get-go; if Alice is introduced as a cold-hearted killer burning down an entire village herself, it'll be a lot harder to sell her as a sympathetic soul, let alone Bob's destined lover, later on. The key is to make it clear both are sympathetic individuals fighting on opposing teams for ultimately benevolent reasons.
• Examples: Sly Cooper (Sly and Carmelita), American Dragon Jake Long (Jake and Rose), TRON Legacy (Beck and Paige), Teen Titans (Kid Flash and Jinx)

In case you're wondering what all the "Alice and Bob" stuff is about, that's borrowing TV Tropes' usage of the names for generic examples of character dynamics. Basically, they're placeholder names for "male character" and "female character".

Edited November 14, 2021 by Lord_Brand