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Rate the Unit-Three Houses, Day 31: Hanneman

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Hanneman also became a father in a more literal sense by raising many children with his wife, Dorothea. 

Rules

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard or Maddening Mode. Also, they should be based on when the unit is first available. (When rating a unit, please specify whether you are rating assuming Hard or Maddening.)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper Justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.

- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!

-The rating you give to a unit assumes a good build for said unit-nothing among the lines of, "Dedue is 2/10 because he's a bad mage."

-The ranking assumes no grinding of any form, no DLC and minor, (one or two stat boosters per month) use of the Greenhouse.

- Make votes easily visible, please! "[Explanation text]: So, overall, I think X unit is a 7.5/10, with a +1 bias included for being hawt/cute/funny/etc.."

- Every ranking phase ends approximately at 20:00 PST. Do the math for your timezone, please!

-We will ask you to not use the "Not X unit" reason. Because it will be used a lot. I.E, do not say "Linhardt bad because not Lysithea."

-The Black Eagles may be assessed based on their performances in either Silver Snow or Crimson Flower, other than when not applicable.

 

Scores:

Dimtri: 9.14

Byleth: 9.05

Edelgard: 9.00

Claude: 8.977

Felix: 8.625 

Lysithea: 8.472

Petra: 8.34

Leonie: 8.2

Ferdinand: 7.78

Catherine: 7.7556

Sylvain: 7.66

Ingrid: 7.34

Hilda: 7.31

Seteth: 7.2273

Bernadetta: 7.125

Linhardt: 7.11

Marianne: 6.9769

Mercedes: 6.756

Shamir: 6.65

Dorothea: 6.375

Cyril: 6.0454

Dedue: 5.8571

Annette: 5.5375

Hubert: 5.525

Ignatz: 4.88

Flayn: 4.583

Caspar: 4.32

Lorenz: 3.8077

Raphael: 3.7273

Ashe: 3.69 (nice)

 

 

Underscore: Black Eagles

Bold: Blue Lions

Itallics: Golden deer

Purple: Faculty

Boldunderscoreditallics: DLC


Average score for Black Eagles: 6.94

Average score for Blue lions: 6.82

Average score for Golden Deer: 6.543

Average score for Faculty: 6.45226

 

Day 31: Hanneman

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My favorite of the Church/Knights of Seiros. He’s like that grandfather you never asked for, but like him anyways. Let’s see how he does on the battlefield:

Goods Traits 

55% magic is nothing to sneeze at granting Hanneman almost guaranteed growths in Magic.

Joins in the Mage class, which means he gets a useful and reliable ability if you train him up for it.

Decent boons such as Bows(For Hit +20 and Magical Hunter’s Volley), Reason( For strict magic builds), and Riding(Move +1 and Canto)

Gets Thoron and Meteor which gives him two long ranged options. This combined with very good Magic means you can do lotsa damage to enemies from afar.

 Schism Shot breaks down Res units so that your other mages can clean up and Ward Arrow being a spammable Silence is also pretty handy.

Good traits, but what about the bad ones?

Bad Traits

Comes a little late to the party, and in this amount of time your mages already got Mag +2 and Fiendish Blow meaning he is a bit behind.

Has a great Black Magic List, but a terrible White Magic List. The usually physical unit spells list + Ward. Why IS?

And the most noticeable weakness: His awful speed.. Getting base 9 isn’t bad, but unless you feed him Speed Carrots, that 20% Growth in Speed is gonna hold that Speed down a lot. But just because it’s noticeable, doesn’t mean it breaks him. He is your mage that should do big chunks of damage, so Speed isn’t relevant when it comes down to Hanneman.

Overall score: 6/10(Personal Bias:7/10)

He might get outclassed by Dorothea in terms of Speed and Physic, but Hanneman is still very good as a pure offense mage.

 

 

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“Age is but a number”. Hanneman is a decent mage. In Hard mode he isn’t too great because of his low speed. However in Maddening where the enemies are fast and your other mages struggle to double as well, he is able to compete. He supports with most of the other natural mages so he can provide linked attack support to them when equipped with Meteor.

For combat arts he has Schism Shot and Ward Arrow. Schism Shot rebuffs an enemies Res, which unless it is a monster, I think you’re better off just attacking. Then he learns Ward Arrow at A rank bow, so unless you are using him as a Sniper I don’t think it is worth getting. His personal skill is Rally Magic, so he supports other mages well. He learns some nice spells like Thoron and Meteor. Then the rest have good enough might for him to chip at enemies. 

For classes wants to aim to be a Dark Knight, he even has a strength in Riding. Then there are some decent Meme builds like Sniper, and War Master, now War Monk is available through DLC. He can make good use of the magical weapons for those classes, still lame that Aura Knuckles are A rank for whatever reason. 

My Rating: 5/10. Good chipping unit. I should get around to using one of those meme builds if I pick the game back up.

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Now we get to the Father of Crestology himself, Hanneman. He's basically like a grandfather that you might find yourself relying on for any sort of knowledge as he himself at his old age still yearns for knowledge. His expertise on crests can not be denied. But what does he bring to the table here on the battlefield? This is assuming hard and no dlc.

Hanneman joins you at least as early as chapter 8 if you're level 15 which is easy to get to even without support. Being available on all routes certainly helps. He starts off as a mage. Thanks to the class bonus, his magic stat start off  with a 65% growth. His dex is decent too, with a 50% growth to boot. His res growth is nice as well, 45% growth. His charm is a little to be desired with a 40% growth but he at least starts with authority rank D so he has access to a magic based battalion immediately. His big downside is his speed. 20% growth is way too low for him to be doubling anything. His strength and defense growth are also very low so he is easily doubled by anything but armored knights and fortress knights. Ironically, he can use that to his advantage on maddening. Hanneman's personal ability Crest Scholar which is rally magic helps out other mages like Annette and Lysithea. Not to mention that he has high support with these magical ladies as well so that has it's benefits. I'll get into that in a bit. He has a minor crest of Indech which occasionally allows him to land an additional attack. But it's only a 10% chance so I wouldn't bank of that working.

Hanneman has a B rank in reason which is one of his boons. This a nice start for him as he is one rank off for going for Warlock if desired. He also has a boon in bows starting at a C+ rank as well as riding at D rank. His banes include heavy armor and flying (I believe it's faith as well but feel free to correct me). He doesn't really have good options as a Fortress Knight or a Wyvern Lord. Fortress Knights make him way slower, even with a forged Bolt Axe he'll have accuracy issues and axes are already at E rank so I wouldn't even bother. And Wyvern Lord while a great class, not for him since his bane in flying is an issue as well. His starting reason magic are Wind, Sagittae and Thoron. He also gets fire thanks to the mage class. He then learns Ragnarok at rank A then Meteor at rank A+. Now Dorothea learns this spell one rank quicker than Hanneman and she has access to the Gremory class as Hanneman does not. His reason spell list is pretty good as he (along with Anna) are the only three units in the game that learns Meteor. The bow combat arts he gets is Schism Shot which he already has. This debuffs the enemy's res by 5 which is the most niche debuffs there is. Then he gets Ward Arrow at rank A, this silences enemies which is slightly better but that's really it. His faith spell list consist of Recover at faith rank C then Ward at rank B. Recover is always nice for a super heal and Ward is just okay but not great. Him having Meteor allows him to be a nice linked attack support bot for units like Annette, Lysithea, Dorothea, Byleth, Manuela and Marianne. Edelgard as well assuming Crimson Flower. While not necessarily a long list of support for him, that's still plenty of choices for him to help enhance their magical attacks with. 

If you plan on using Hanneman, he can go back to monk if you need to magic +2 and draw back. He can go Warlock if you want the 2x of black magic and black tomefaire. You can also use his boon in riding to his advantage and make him a Dark Knight. Having access to canto as well as 7 move is a nice way for Hanneman to either rally magic and get out of range or play hit and run. He could also go Sniper if you want to use a forged Magic Bow. He would want the archer's Hit +20 ability regardless which class you want him to be. He could also go Bow Knight if he wanted to as well. 

Overall, I think Hanneman is honestly a 5.5/10 unit for me. His lack of speed as well as lack of Physic don't really make a case that he should be picked over the other mages that you've been training since the start of your run. Training him also will be a chore if you're dead set on using him, but at least being a meteor support bot gives him a niche similar to Dorothea. Dorothea however can play that role better than him because she has a wider support pool and has better class access in comparison. 

Edited by Barren

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Disclaimer that I haven't used Hanneman seriously much - definitely on the list for my next playthrough.

Hanneman is bad.  He's basically "what if Dorothea, but without Physic or speed and getting Meteor later and unable to go Gremory for +1 Move, but hey a little more raw Magic stat".  It's also worth pointing out that while Dorothea is also frail, she can credibly qualify for Mortal Savant and get its stat bases to fix her Defense even if she's uninterested in using the class, while doing the same for Bow Knight for Hanneman is a lot more work for less reward.  Basically, Doro can eat the occasional monster counterattack or Savage Blow area-of-effect, and Hanneman is seriously worried about surviving things like that.  He truly wants to be at a safe distance from enemies at all times.  Which makes the lack of Physic all the worse.  (Good design choice, though, honestly 3H should have embraced this more and had more units that were all-in on either Reason or Faith.)  That said, even Dorothea minus minus is arguably still better than lategame no-DLC mage Annette or the like.  Pretty sure my Doro score wasn't counted despite coming in in time, but I do think Dorothea was underranked a bit, so even an inferior Dorothea is okay since Meteor is so amazing.  And he's of course an acceptable enough filler unit in the middle of White Clouds if you're waiting on other recruits (e.g. planning on doing a last-second recruit of Leonie or Ingrid for their great growths).

This is mostly theorycraft since I've only read about the wonders of Sniper Hanneman, but I'll grant that Hunter's Volleying people very dead with a Shining Bow (EDIT: Wait, it was called Magic Bow, right?  Despite the less cool name?) sounds pretty darn funny.  Lots of low-resistance enemies out there, and HV doesn't care about Hanneman's bad speed.  That said.  Arcane Crystals are only sold by the Dark Merchant, which is what, Chapter 16 or so?  And was even later in my first playthrough where it wasn't clear that this random quest had such good rewards, and it's possible you don't revisit the Monastery after completing it.  So...  Arcane Crystals are quite late.  Compare this to the Swift Strikes or normal-bow Hunter's Volley crew, which can cheerfully wreck with Iron/Steel/Silver and normal Smithing Stones.  Sounds like an amusing build, but that late in the game, there's a lot of dirty tricks you can play, so competition is high.

Also worth pointing out that Hanneman gets absolutely nothing from the DLC, aside from competition with Hapi's 4 range Valkyrie spells or the like.  I guess you could give Sniper Hanneman the Fetters of Dromi, since he has a crest?  That's about it.  (And, it's not DLC, but if we're including "online connectivity" as a similar legal grey area, then I guess Sniper Hanneman likes all the easy money you get from online item sales to fuel breaking a pile of Shining Bows.)

I'd call Hanneman a 3/10.  Would be 2/10 but Meteor & Magic Bow wackiness are respectable enough for +1 point, sure.

Edited by SnowFire

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His spell list is not bad. He comes with Sagittae which combines high hit with decent MT, and thoron for 3 range poking. And if you use Manuela you might be expecting a weakness in faith (he isn't weak in faith), so picking up his faith spells isn't a huge skill exp dump. He also comes with D in riding on top of the proficiency, which helps for later, and a C+ in bows. You'd have to keep raising his bows to B just to use the magic bow, and the magic bow aint great. It's certainly not useful if he's staying in a magic class the entire game. The most help his starting rank in bows provides is opening up the possibility of certifying as a sniper, and attaining 17 strength. Sounds like a big deal but the dude has a 30 growth in strength so level ups in that stat aren't terribly infrequent to begin with. Hell, I don't think it's crazy to suggest he ought to be a sniper over being a mage since that class carries bad units like no other. D authority is appreciated, but you'd expect a teacher to have more than this.

His crest is worthless. His personal is rally magic, but he learns no other rallies to potentially add onto that and I think I'd prefer any other stat, since the recipients of rallies are typically enemy phase units (in other words, not mages) that would benefit more from a rally in luck, res, or charm. Let alone stats like strength or speed. Seriously, only Lorenz makes sense for this rally, and that's assuming you're playing him as a straight mage (which I don't recommend) rather than as a cavalier. His availability at chapter 8 is...potentially a problem. Chapter 7 is where you'll be doing your first paralogues, and it's a huge dump in experience. Hanneman will arrive late to the party but not so late he can't also gain some levels. Even with some levels, his speed is unlikely to improve. Hey may start out quick enough to double armor knights with wind, but that is unlikely to hold as the game goes on since armor knights do have some AS as the game goes on in maddening. And this is a critical concern when you realize combat mages have one matchup they're uniquely qualified to deal with as well as snipers or gauntlet users, and it's armor knights. They don't have anything else beyond single hit chip damage or attempting a OHKO.

Hanneman's meteor support bonus is considerable, but only ever as good as how many units on your roster can support him. On that list, Edelgard is a great unit but obviously is only in one route. Linhardt's great too, but he's rarely engaging in combat...Hubert, Annette, Dorothea, Jesus these are bad. Oh, Alois. Add Seteth and Gilbert and that's four decent units that appreciate the help but don't exist in the same routes. If you have no support with him, it's just a boost of 3% to attack and avoid, or 5% to gambit hit rate. I rate Hanneman a 1.5 out of 10. I was going to go with a 1, but that's the lowest in my scale, and it ought to be reserved for SS Cyril. He's more in line with SS Hilda. Hanneman starts out unremarkable and becomes even worse as the game goes on. Neither Three Houses nor Maddening are kind to combat mages, and he's the worst in the batch. He's also got remarkably poor performance in his own paralogue, isn't available for the main missions of chapter 8, 10, or 13 on non-CF routes, and even if he can chip for more damage than the mage you started the game, why do you need another unit just like that to baby until the late game? 

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The dapper gent himself. His dedication is admirable and his reason for that dedication is even more so. Hanneman is a good fellow. Starts at Level 15. His stats, though…

     Skill Levels:      Boons: Bow C+, Reason B, Riding D.  Dark Knight. Bow Knight? Eh, for a meme. Banes: Armor and Flying.

     Abilities:     Crest Scholar is a reskinned Rally Magic. Unfortunately, he gets no other Rallies. Instead, he gets Battalion Desperation (C). With his abyssal Speed stat. Joy.

     Arts:     He starts with Schism Shot. Seal Res in Art format. He gets Ward Arrow at A Bows. Silence in Art format. So, debuffs then.

     Spells:     Hanneman starts with Wind, Sagittae, and Thoron. He also gets Ragnarok (A) and Meteor (A+). Suiting, viable spells! From Faith, he gets Heal, Nosferatu, Recover (C), and Ward (B). Decent.

     Stats:     20+55% Magic and 17+40% Res. Everything else is useless.

     Classes:     Intermediate- Mage

Advanced- Warlock

Master- Dark Knight

          The Verdict

Honestly, I don’t think his atrocious Speed is anything new. There are what, like 2 Magic users with ≥45% Speed? Everything below that is what I would call slow. 4/10

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Hanneman, considered on Maddening.

The Bad

Like all faculty units, Hanneman takes a little while to become playable. He can first be recruited in Chapter 8, after Gronder I. So he's not helping you there, or in any earlier chapters. And he'll have no mastery skills, at a point where most of your units have a Beginner mastery, and are working their way through an Intermediate one. But his availability, apart from non-CF 13, is unlimited afterward, so at least there's that.

His stats, too, are iffy in a few areas. Note that the values given are based on his recruitment in Chapter 8, as a level 15 Mage. His HP (32 + 0.45x) is alright, but paired with his Defense (7 + 0.20x) leaves him physically frail. His Strength (10 + 0.25x) is pretty par-for-the-course for magic specialists, rendering his physical combat nil. His Luck (9 + 0.35x) sucks, and his Charm (11 + 0.40x) is just okay. But his most prominent weak spot has to be his Speed, at 9 + 0.20x. This is a unit who struggles to double even armors, people.

Getting into proficiencies, he has two banes - in Armor, and in Flight. Now, these would suck if he had any physical potential whatsoever, or else a weird path to "Bolt Axe Wyvern". But he doesn't, so the only real flaw is having a harder time getting Armor Knight certification and Weight-3. Not that those are even worth it on him. He also starts with Authority, which I'm not sure if I should regard as "bad" or "good" at this point in the game. I mean, it'll be lower than most of your units, but at least it's above E... right? Slap a magic battalion on him, and call it a day. Oh yeah, and he starts at E Faith, so he'll have to be tutored just to get Heal.

What else... oh, combat arts. He doesn't have any. Okay, he does, but they're not exactly good. The game's designers, in their infinite wisdom, gave some magical units (Hubert, Mercedes, Hanneman) a gift in bows... and no bow combat arts that deal magical damage. So his damage output will suck without the Magic Bow. That said, his arts are... at least interesting? Schism Shot has 2~3 range and debuffs Res, while Ward Arrow silences the target for a hot second, so... yeah, incredibly niche uses. Looking on the spells side, his Faith list is fairly boring, with Recover and Ward to his name. Not the worst, but nothing special.

The Good

Hanneman comes with some good stats to his name, sure. His Resistance (17 + 0.45x), coupled with his already-okay HP, makes him among your better units for taking enemy spells. His Dexterity (13 + 0.50x) doesn't start out great, but at least it's got a solid growth to it. Foremost, though, is his Magic stat: at 20 + 0.65x, he'll show up and deliver potent magical damage from the get-go.

Returning to proficiencies, he joins with good ranks and boons in some key areas. Having a Bow (C+) boon is... weird... but it means he can go Archer right away, if you want. Well, you'll probably want him to get to B for the Magic Bow first. Still, having a magical damage range of 8 is totally welcome, if you can spare the Arcane Crystals - as is Hit +20 from mastery. He joins as a Mage with B Reason, which is... good. Likely competitive with some of the magic units you've already been bringing up. He'll show up with three spells (plus Fire as long as he's in Mage), and a fairly simple road to the last two, at A and A+ rank. Fiendish Blow from Mage mastery is must-have, but mastering Monk for Magic +2 is a worthy diversion too. Or you can burn a Dark Seal to secure Poison Strike on him, for extra chip. Finally, there's his Riding (D) boon. Apart from decently easy access to Dex +4 (wait, does anyone use this?), this is more of a long-term investment. It means that Dark Knight is a totally reasonable class for him to get into. Or he can be a (Magic) Bow Knight. At the same time, though, there are arguments for him to stay in their infantry counterparts, Warlock and Sniper, respectively. It's a personal choice, and while the boon is nice, starting at D means he'll have some catching up to do.

We've already talked his Combat arts, and his Faith list - both lackluster. So, what remains? Why, his Reason list, of course! I'm of the mind that it's the single best Reason list in the game. From the very start, he gets two high-use, fairly accurate 1~2 options in Wind and Saggitae. And Thoron is there for the crucial 1~3 range, when he can't reach a target otherwise. Ragnarok (A) shows up to pack a punch at 15 might, in tandem with an already-high Magic stat. And finally, Meteor (A+). Though it only has 1 use (2 in Warlock), he gets choices with it. He can equip it to provide linked attack bonuses, or the similar gambit boost, to units whom he supports. Or, he can use it to devastate a target who is out of range otherwise. Even if it's not one-shotting, he can use it to weaken a target, and ensure an ally gets the finishing blow in.

What other cool things does the Father of Crestology have going for him? Well, there is his personal skill - it's a reskinned Rally Magic. Ironic - he could boost other's magic, but not his own. It is a weird recurrence, that units get Rallies that they themselves would love to benefit from. Anyway, this can still be useful to bolster your other magic users. A shame he doesn't learn any other rallies to pair with it. Oh yeah, and then there's his own Crest, that of minor Indech (shared with Bernadetta). It has a 10% chance of affording a follow-up attack with a weapon. That's... not very good for a magic specialist. But hey, at least it means he can equip Thyrsus without taking a penalty.

The Verdict

Hanneman has a lot of things running against him - no real potential for physical offense, a lackluster Faith list, and one of the worst speed stats in the game. It's no help that he doesn't show up until past halfway through the pre-skip - and when he does, his skill ranks are poor, outside of Reason and Bows. But honestly, his Reason boon, excellent spell list, and high magic stat salvage him. He's good at doing magical damage to chip down foes - and he's okay at providing support, with healing, Ward, Rally Magic, and the Meteor trick. Magic Bow Archer/Sniper/Bow Knight is also... technically an option, but he misses out on the spell lists. Hanneman is hardly a must-use, but if you feel your team is lacking some magical "oomph" (looking at you, Blue Lions), he's a totally reasonable (heh) choice to bring on board. All things told, I think he deserves a 5 out of 10.

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The latest-joining character with a clear mage build, Hanneman asks the question: how useful can a unit be if he's a way worse version of Dorothea?

The good: Hanneman might have the best Reason list in the game. Thoron is outstanding for its extra range, Meteor for its extreme range and linked attack synergy. Ragnarok is a solid power spell. Wind is probably the best of the D-rank spells, since it maximizes AS and hit. And to top it off, he has a good magic stat: 10+55% (with mage growth amplifying this a little before his join level of 15) trails only Lysithea and Hubert, and not by much. So he'll be able to put all of these spells to good use. His support list includes four members of the Eagles (including their lord) along with popular recruits Lysithea and Marianne, so he provides solid linked attack support on Crimson Flower runs. He's got a riding boon, so gets to Dark Knight easily, though you might prefer sticking with Warlock for the extra Meteor anyway.

He's also got a boon in bows, which provides an interesting option of going magical Sniper with a Magic Bow. Granted, any mage can do this (Mercedes also is strong in bows, and even for others being bow-neutral is enough to get to Sniper at the same speed as Hanneman due to his later join time), but it's worth mentioning since most other mages give up more (i.e. their faith lists) for this build, while Hanneman "only" needs to give up Meteor. Though it should also be mentioned that it's a build very reliant on Arcane Crystals, which you have no reliable way of getting until quite late.

The less good: 6+20% speed is really terrible. It means Hanneman will have trouble fulfilling one of the basic functions of a mage: doubling armour knights for a kill. Since his other defensive stats are typical mage level, he also ends up extremely fragile because of how much he'll be doubled. His charm is below average, at 5+35%.

He joins with E faith, and has a bad faith list, meaning that compared to other mages on your team, he offers almost no non-offensive utility. He has Rally Magic from his personal, but that's no substitute for ranged healing or Warp/Rescue/Silence. He also doesn't get a magic combat art, so despite his magic stat, most other mages have better peak damage if they close to melee (then again, with his durability, you may not want him anywhere near melee anyway).

And as usual, joining late sucks. He'll need to backtrack for Mag+2 and Draw Back (and if he doesn't, he'll spend most of the game just catching up to the mages with nominally lower magic growth in that stat), and gets Fiendish Blow later than his competition as well. D authority is underwhelming for his join time (and E faith is worse, as mentioned).

While Meteor is great, Hanneman has some trouble flexing its advantages. First, he has to wait for A+ Reason, instead of the typical A. And on routes that aren't Crimson Flower, his support list is anemic: he only supports one Lion (one of the worst ones, at that), two Deer, and two Eagles who make it to Silver Snow.

Overall, Hanneman's in a bit of a tough spot. Both his personal and his support list point to a unit who is most useful if you're using lots of mages... but if you're using lots of mages, that's a lot of units who are likely better than him anyway! In comparison to other mid-tier mages like Hubert he comes up lacking (Hubert matches his 3 range but with better stats, join time, and a mean Frozen Lance). That said Meteor is really good, and saves Hanneman from the trash heap, and its linked attacks mean he's lucky I rate on a unit's best route. Hanneman gets a 3.5/10 (Maddening).

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People here are really overstating Hanneman's Speed Issues, particularly against Armored Enemies. Here's the actual numbers behind that point.

While Hanneman may not be a great unit, people are really overestimating Enemy Fortress Knights if they think he can't double them. 

Edited by LoneRecon400

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3.5/10, I initially wasn’t going to do this because Hanneman is one of two Three Houses units that I’ve never used but... 20% speed? Joins at chapter 8? Ouch. On maddening you’ll really want time to develop your units and Hanneman is certainly missing out on that (though I suppose this is true of all difficulties), your other mages should already have fiendish blow by now. And yet he has a 3.5? Well his saving grace (to an extent) is his spell list. He gets thoron and meteor and... ragnarok? A nuke mage who actually gets a fitting spell for that role?? Can it be?? Boons in reason and riding are obviously nice, as well as his boon in bows since he learns  ward arrow, which is silence that can be spammed. Schism shot is niche but maybe sometimes useful I guess. Ironically enough, since mages are basically never doubling on maddening, Hanneman is actually somewhat better than others (kind of, if you train him (don’t)) because of his higher magic damage. He also has garbage faith, standard nosferatu and heal plus... restore and ward. Hooray.

(Feel free to correct if any of this is misinforming based on his performance.)

25 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

People here are really overstating Hanneman's Speed Issues, particularly aganist Armored Enemies. Here's the actual numbers behind that point.

While Hanneman may not be a great unit, people are really overestimating Enemy Fortress Knights if they think he can't double them. 

I mean everyone learns helm splitter at C axes and fortress knights aren’t too common iirc.

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5 hours ago, SnowFire said:

This is mostly theorycraft since I've only read about the wonders of Sniper Hanneman, but I'll grant that Hunter's Volleying people very dead with a Shining Bow (EDIT: Wait, it was called Magic Bow, right?  Despite the less cool name?) sounds pretty darn funny.  Lots of low-resistance enemies out there, and HV doesn't care about Hanneman's bad speed.  That said.  Arcane Crystals are only sold by the Dark Merchant, which is what, Chapter 16 or so?  And was even later in my first playthrough where it wasn't clear that this random quest had such good rewards, and it's possible you don't revisit the Monastery after completing it.  So...  Arcane Crystals are quite late.  Compare this to the Swift Strikes or normal-bow Hunter's Volley crew, which can cheerfully wreck with Iron/Steel/Silver and normal Smithing Stones.  Sounds like an amusing build, but that late in the game, there's a lot of dirty tricks you can play, so competition is high.

You get 4 Arcane Crystals for free (guaranteed) in Academy Phase, and a free Magic Bow in Chapter 14 (though this might be BL-exclusive, from memory?). You can't make Magic Bows until B+ Professor rank, which is realistically around Chapter 9 or so.

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Agro: What I mean is "sold in limitless supply".  You can scrape & scrounge for Arcane Crystals beforehand, sure.  You really don't want to go into Sniper without at least one Magic Bow though considering Hanneman's questionable Str, and Hunter's Volley costs 5 endurance, so you will be doing a substantial amount of repairing.  (I guess I also undersold what the DLC offers Hanneman - I forget when Magic Bow unlocks, but I suppose you can get more Magic Bows from the Pagan Altar as well.  Hopefully not too late, since you'd want Hanneman to hit Level 20 around C9-C11 to get into Sniper on time.)

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2 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

People here are really overstating Hanneman's Speed Issues, particularly against Armored Enemies. Here's the actual numbers behind that point.

While Hanneman may not be a great unit, people are really overestimating Enemy Fortress Knights if they think he can't double them. 

From your own pictures, enemies reach 11 AS around chapter 14, which Hanneman already potentially fails to double with Wind+[any staff], unless he's gained speed since becoming a Warlock. Then they hit 12 AS, and now he potentially can't double them even without a staff (or with a staff, if he's gained 1 speed). There are three in Merceus with 13 AS. Enbarr with 14 AS. And so on. CF's fortress knights scale up even faster, hitting 13 AS by Chapter 15. Sure, there are some slower armours that he does double, and yes you can feed him speed carrots to eliminate this problem entirely, or just get slightly lucky on his spd(/str) growths but this is still a problem he faces which other mages do not, and it definitely can matter.

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5.5 / 10 on Hard

The good:

  • Solid Mag base for a Ch8 recruit and good Mag growth for a magic-oriented unit.
  • Interesting Reason spell list, including Meteor, 3-range Thoron, high Mt Ragnarok, and accurate wind spells.
  • Proficiency in Reason and Riding, and joins with B rank in Reason and Mage class unlocked, which help with Warlock and Dark Knight certification.
  • Minor crest of Indech, thus no penalty using Thyrsus. The activation rate of occasionally double attacking with a magic weapon is too low to rely on.
  • Rally Magic as personal ability, situationally useful to help his mage teammates.
  • Learns Schism Shot and Ward Arrow as personal combat arts, can debuff Res or Silence enemies at distance.

The mixed:

  • Can do Magic Bow Sniper build (or Bow Knight on Hard) thanks to his high Mag growth, proficiency in Bow and joining with C+ rank at base, but no magic Bow combat art and the limited availability of arcane crystals and Magic Bow before Ch16 can be annoying, assuming no DLC.
  • Unexceptional Faith spell list, with basic Heal/Nosferatu/Recover and Ward being situationally useful, no Physic or other noteworthy utility spells.
     

The not-so-good:

  • Low Spd even among mages.
  • Only learns Battalion Desperation which doesn’t sync with his Spd at all.
  • Needs to catch up with his class masteries compared to in-house members.
  • Authority D when joining at Ch8, still needs to catch up with in-house members.

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Genuine considering grinding him ranks in War Master in my current playthrough so I can give him Quick Riposte in a future New Game+ playthrough XD That skill making you immune to doubling is bonkers. And he might as well benefit something from losing Gremory thanks to sexism. Course this isn't a point to consider for this discussion (and the reason I don't really vote on these ratings is because I always play new game+ for funsies). Just want to give some people an amusing idea since speed is the real weakness on his part.

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7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Sure, there are some slower armours that he does double, and yes you can feed him speed carrots to eliminate this problem entirely, or just get slightly lucky on his spd(/str) growths but this is still a problem he faces which other mages do not, and it definitely can matter.

Bullheads exist, as does the Speed Ring. Those alone would ensure he'd be able to double almost every Fortress Knight without having to rely heavily on his Speed Growth or Stat boosters.  

Edited by LoneRecon400

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If he's using a Speed Ring, he's not using Thyrsus, Caduceus, or a Magic Staff. I agree that there are ways to get him to double, but this is still a negative other mages don't worry about, so in a comparison with them, it stands out.

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17 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

If he's using a Speed Ring, he's not using Thyrsus, Caduceus, or a Magic Staff. I agree that there are ways to get him to double, but this is still a negative other mages don't worry about, so in a comparison with them, it stands out.

He doesn't have to use the Speed Ring most of the time as long as Cooking is in play. He also doesn't need a Magic Staff considering he already one rounds most Armored Enemies. 

Most mages have difficulty even doubling Fortress Knights when they're not using their most basic spell. Having Low Speed doesn't really affect a Mage's performance in a meaningful way.

Edited by LoneRecon400

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Fair point about the Magic Staff (it's only really relevant for magic-screwed mage when it comes to killing an armour knight, probably), but Thyrsus/Caduceus definitely matter.

On the other hand, I'm not sure why you're bringing up other mages' spells, as if they can't choose the spell they need to double with. It only matters for Mire/Thoron/Death, and Marianne/Dorothea's AS with Thoron is similar to Hanneman's with Wind (specifics depending on level and whether you dipped for Weight-3).

I admit I don't tend to use cooking much, which does probably help Hanneman out a bit here. Speed helps the whole team, so it's not like you're just favouring Hanneman there.

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59 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm not sure why you're bringing up other mages' spells, as if they can't choose the spell they need to double with. It only matters for Mire/Thoron/Death, and Marianne/Dorothea's AS with Thoron is similar to Hanneman's with Wind (specifics depending on level and whether you dipped for Weight-3).

Because mages using their 3 range level spells are slow enough to the point where they have difficulties doubling Fortress Knights. Weight -3 might mitigate these issues, but that's a substantial amount of investment considering most have an armor bane.

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Yeah, you just proved my point. Hanneman's Wind is only 1 AS ahead of Marianne/Dorothea's Thoron, 2 behind Hubert's Mire. I'm not sure how you can plausibly claim that Hanneman has no trouble doubling armour knights, but mages with 3 range spells do (except Hapi, who is admittedly slower).

Neither Dorothea nor Hubert have a bane in armour, though Marianne does.

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Hanneman's Wind is only 1 AS ahead of Marianne/Dorothea's Thoron, 2 behind Hubert's Mire. I'm not sure how you can plausibly claim that Hanneman has no trouble doubling armour knights, but mages with 3 range spells do.

The point wasn't that Hanneman could double while others couldn't, it was about how Mage's struggle to double Fortress Knights using 3 range spells in general. 

Like even with Weight -3, Dorothea still can't double Fortress Knights with Thoron when equipped with Thryus without eating a Bullhead.

Edited by LoneRecon400

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Mages struggle to double Fortress Knights with 3 range. Hanneman struggles to double Fortress Knights with 2 range. Either both of these statements are true or neither is. In both cases, it's borderline and depends on other investment.

Either way it's an advantage other mages have over Hanneman, though.

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