New Heroes and Ascended Fjorm

[DefyingFates]

What's the better IV spread for Fjorm, +Def/-HP or +HP/-Res? The latter tempts me towards a L&D build, but I was hoping to get some feedback before I did anything silly. Also, what's her best choice for a second asset, Atk or Spd? Thanks in advance!

[Othin]

16 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

What's the better IV spread for Fjorm, +Def/-HP or +HP/-Res? The latter tempts me towards a L&D build, but I was hoping to get some feedback before I did anything silly. Also, what's her best choice for a second asset, Atk or Spd? Thanks in advance!

For Ascended Fjorm, I'd lean towards a defensive Save build, but it sounds like you're thinking of something different?

[DefyingFates]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

For Ascended Fjorm, I'd lean towards a defensive Save build, but it sounds like you're thinking of something different?

I just thought the latter IVs would be a better fit for Ice Mirror is all, but I take it you think the +Def one is better?

[Othin]

8 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I just thought the latter IVs would be a better fit for Ice Mirror is all, but I take it you think the +Def one is better?

I'd lean towards +Def myself, yeah. I don't think lowering her defenses in an attempt to slightly boost the damage from Ice Mirror is a good idea.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Othin

[Use the Falchion]

Got an Ascended Fjorm on my second free pull! She was the only one I was really going for, so I'm happy. Wolf would have been nice too, but I got my major goal, so I'm happy. 

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

What's the better IV spread for Fjorm, +Def/-HP or +HP/-Res? The latter tempts me towards a L&D build, but I was hoping to get some feedback before I did anything silly. Also, what's her best choice for a second asset, Atk or Spd? Thanks in advance!

Fjorm has no guaranteed follow-up on her base kit unless you give her the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal, so she probably wants Spd as one of her Assets.

Between Def and HP, a Def Asset adds 3 bulk per attack, whereas an HP Asset adds 6 bulk overall if she has no outside sources of damage reduction. It's kind of a toss-up between the two, as HP also applies to magical bulk, but Def is a greater increase in bulk after two rounds of combat against bows or daggers.

It's worth noting that at +0+0 with no Asset and with only her base skills, a physical unit that cannot double Fjorm needs a minimum of 62 Atk to deal at least 1 damage to Fjorm after accounting for her passive healing. Each additional point of Def increases that by 1. A physical unit that can double Fjorm needs a minimum of 55 Atk to deal at least 1 damage, with each additional point of Def increasing that by 2.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[DefyingFates]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Between Def and HP, a Def Asset adds 3 bulk per attack, whereas an HP Asset adds 6 bulk overall if she has no outside sources of damage reduction. It's kind of a toss-up between the two, as HP also applies to magical bulk, but Def is a greater increase in bulk after two rounds of combat against bows or daggers.

In this scenario, you're saying the Def Asset is worth the reduced damage from Ice Mirror for a bow/ dagger attack?

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

In this scenario, you're saying the Def Asset is worth the reduced damage from Ice Mirror for a bow/ dagger attack?

I personally prefer an HP Asset over a Def Asset, more for the mixed bulk than for the damage concerns and because I typically don't see more than 2 physical ranged units on a map, but a Save Tank's first job is to not die, so it's your call.

It's also worth noting that 3 Def results in a decrease in only 1.5 damage for Ice Mirror, so I don't think it's that much of an issue.

[Othin]

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Fjorm has no guaranteed follow-up on her base kit unless you give her the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal, so she probably wants Spd as one of her Assets.

Between Def and HP, a Def Asset adds 3 bulk per attack, whereas an HP Asset adds 6 bulk overall if she has no outside sources of damage reduction. It's kind of a toss-up between the two, as HP also applies to magical bulk, but Def is a greater increase in bulk after two rounds of combat against bows or daggers.

It's worth noting that at +0+0 with no Asset and with only her base skills, a physical unit that cannot double Fjorm needs a minimum of 62 Atk to deal at least 1 damage to Fjorm after accounting for her passive healing. Each additional point of Def increases that by 1. A physical unit that can double Fjorm needs a minimum of 55 Atk to deal at least 1 damage, with each additional point of Def increasing that by 2.

That's a good point that her damage reduction increases the value of HP to more for her than for most units. This could be complicated.

Fjorm seems like a unit able to draw a lot of value from all five stats, so I guess it's more a matter of what exactly you want to do with her than any one right answer.

[DefyingFates]

13 minutes ago, Othin said:

Fjorm seems like a unit able to draw a lot of value from all five stats, so I guess it's more a matter of what exactly you want to do with her than any one right answer.

That's the worst kind of answer! As I mentioned earlier, I thought the -Res would lend itself to a L&D build to maximize on Ice Mirror, which is the build I used to use on OG!Fjorm before her remix.

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I personally prefer an HP Asset over a Def Asset, more for the mixed bulk than for the damage concerns and because I typically don't see more than 2 physical ranged units on a map, but a Save Tank's first job is to not die, so it's your call.

Hmm... Worst case scneario, I guess I could build both and put one each in my Light and Astra teams? Is that a good idea, or do you think one season suits her better (e.g. Light because of Nott shenanigans)?

I think I'm going to give her Spd for her ascended asset though, so thank you very much for recommending that earlier!

Edited October 19, 2021 by DefyingFates

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

That's the worst kind of answer! As I mentioned earlier, I thought the -Res would lend itself to a L&D build to maximize on Ice Mirror, which is the build I used to use on OG!Fjorm before her remix.

Hmm... Worst case scneario, I guess I could build both and put one each in my Light and Astra teams? Is that a good idea, or do you think one season suits her better (e.g. Light because of Nott shenanigans)?

I think I'm going to give her Spd for her ascended asset though, so thank you very much for recommending that earlier!

Save units, especially good Far Save units, are very valuable as tanks in AR. I wouldn't suggest serious investment in multiple copies of her, especially since her base kit is already so good (and you may end up wanting to merge them later), but slapping a blessing and assist on each one could allow for big benefits on both teams.

[DefyingFates]

12 minutes ago, Othin said:

Save units, especially good Far Save units, are very valuable as tanks in AR. I wouldn't suggest serious investment in multiple copies of her, especially since her base kit is already so good (and you may end up wanting to merge them later), but slapping a blessing and assist on each one could allow for big benefits on both teams.

I'll keep this in mind, thank you very much! I'll wait until either the melee or ranged training maps switch in before training the second though. I've been thinking of merging her up too, since she's in the 190 bin AND is in the regular pool, but I'll wait to see if she appears in future sparkable banners before deciding one way or another. I saw a Hardy Fighter P!Surtr on Discord recently, but the skill's too niche for anyone but her at the moment for it to be part of their "best possible build", right?

Edited October 19, 2021 by DefyingFates

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

I saw a Hardy Fighter P!Surtr on Discord recently, but the skill's too niche for anyone but her at the moment for it to be part of their "best possible build", right?

Brave Hector has this completely asinine build:

Brave Hector [+Res]
Maltet [unique]
[Assist]
Aegis
Ostian Counter
Hardy Fighter 3
A/R Far Save 3
Steady Breath

This gives him:

• 2-cooldown 75% Aegis that fully charges at the beginning of turn 1 and after each hit and reduces damage by 5 after calculating damage reduction
• Distant Counter
• Svalinn Shield
• Guaranteed follow-up
• Prevents enemy follow-up
• Nullifies enemy guaranteed follow-up
• Nullifies penalties
• Total +14/0/14/10 in-combat stats from weapon and skills

Double Aegis is busted enough that you probably don't even need a +Res Asset and can go +Atk to make up for not having a damaging Special.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[Rinco]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Hector has this completely asinine build:

Brave Hector [+Res]
Maltet [unique]
[Assist]
Aegis
Ostian Counter
Hardy Fighter 3
A/R Far Save 3
Steady Breath

This gives him:

• 2-cooldown 75% Aegis that fully charges at the beginning of turn 1 and after each hit and reduces damage by 5 after calculating damage reduction
• Distant Counter
• Svalinn Shield
• Guaranteed follow-up
• Prevents enemy follow-up
• Nullifies enemy guaranteed follow-up
• Nullifies penalties
• Total +14/0/14/10 in-combat stats from weapon and skills

Double Aegis is busted enough that you probably don't even need a +Res Asset and can go +Atk to make up for not having a damaging Special.

You can also use the melee version of Aegis (is it Pavise?) with a tier 3 Stance skill on the A slot for Near Save, and that also gives you Guard effect on EP.

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, Rinco said:

You can also use the melee version of Aegis (is it Pavise?) with a tier 3 Stance skill on the A slot for Near Save, and that also gives you Guard effect on EP.

There are a lot more options for Near Save than there are for Far Save, so while you do get more effects on a Near Save build, the Far Save build is more noteworthy.

Additionally, due to the fact that there are a lot of melee units with extremely high Def in contrast to the few ranged units with high Def, while you get superior bulk with a Pavise build, it comes at the severe limitation that you're going to end up dealing insignificant damage to certain attackers without access to a damaging Special.

This is less of an issue for Hector himself, as there are not too many bulky melee green units that are commonly seen in Aether Raids (it's basically just Brave Edelgard, though I have seen Rhea once so far), but I know my Gustav deals single-digit damage to Eliwood and Legendary Sigurd on hit without the Ignis proc, so it's definitely something you'll need to have a teammate be able to cover for if you do forgo a damaging Special.

[XRay]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, due to the fact that there are a lot of melee units with extremely high Def in contrast to the few ranged units with high Def, while you get superior bulk with a Pavise build, it comes at the severe limitation that you're going to end up dealing insignificant damage to certain attackers without access to a damaging Special.

You can offload some of that damage output to a support unit now with Múspell, so lack of a Special is not a huge issue in my opinion.

And with 75% damage reduction using Pavise/Aegis-Hardy Fighter, you can probably even forgo Flayn entirely and run double Múspell.

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, XRay said:

You can offload some of that damage output to a support unit now with Múspell, so lack of a Special is not a huge issue in my opinion.

And with 75% damage reduction using Pavise/Aegis-Hardy Fighter, you can probably even forgo Flayn entirely and run double Múspell.

That helps against Sigurd, but that does jack squat against Eliwood. My minimal investment Gustav with 59 Atk will be getting a grand total of 6 extra damage from a single Muspell against a +10+15 Resplendent Eliwood.

I wouldn't recommend running the Pavise version of the Hardy Fighter build on anything other than Brave Hector and Pirate Surtr, who at least have color advantage to get around Sigurd and Eliwood.

 

Also, double Muspell (and even single Muspell) is not exactly something that players are going to have sitting around in their barracks.

[Xenomata]

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, double Muspell (and even single Muspell) is not exactly something that players are going to have sitting around in their barracks.

It certainly isn't, but it also isn't any more or less crazy than double Flayn. They share the exact same normal summoning pool (well... Colorless versus Red isn't a fair argument I guess, but he can still be summoned normally), so the average player can at least hope to summon a random Muspell some random day. Plus he's eligible for focus banners like Heroes with Rally Up or Heroes with AR skills, plus at least one appearance in a Legendary or Mythic hero banner.

[XRay]

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That helps against Sigurd, but that does jack squat against Eliwood. My minimal investment Gustav with 59 Atk will be getting a grand total of 6 extra damage from a single Muspell against a +10+15 Resplendent Eliwood.

I wouldn't recommend running the Pavise version of the Hardy Fighter build on anything other than Brave Hector and Pirate Surtr, who at least have color advantage to get around Sigurd and Eliwood.

If players are running Reginn and Ashera, they should be able to kill either of them though. Ullr will also definitely kill them, but she boosts Spd, so she is not as ideal for Gustav: Majestic Love.

Gustav Majestic Love might not be able to kill some bulky red foes, but as long as he is not does not die to them, I think it will be okay.

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, double Muspell (and even single Muspell) is not exactly something that players are going to have sitting around in their barracks.

That is true.

I wish Múspell debuted after Fjorm: Ice Ascendent, since I bet he will sell like hotcakes now. I did not summon for him when he first came out, since I thought offloading damage output was kind of pointless and just plain silly at the time.

[Ice Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

It certainly isn't, but it also isn't any more or less crazy than double Flayn.

Sure, but I pretty much never recommend builds that require double Flayn, so me ignoring Muspell's existence isn't exactly anything new.

(Especially considering I didn't even start using single Flayn until last week.)

 

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

I wish Múspell debuted after Fjorm: Ice Ascendent, since I bet he will sell like hotcakes now.

I doubt it. Hardy Fighter is still a niche build at best (it'll probably have difficulty against Duo Catria compositions, which I'm seeing way too many of these days), and the current Save builds are good enough that I don't think enough people would care enough to pull Muspell for only marginal improvements, if any.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I doubt it. Hardy Fighter is still a niche build at best (it'll probably have difficulty against Duo Catria compositions, which I'm seeing way too many of these days), and the current Save builds are good enough that I don't think enough people would care enough to pull Muspell for only marginal improvements, if any.

I am not so sure about it being a niche build. Dodge is powerful, and I think it has a strong chance of being mainstream, especially when you can get it as high as 75% on a single unit without using support. Defensive Special with Múspell means that although your Dodge is less reliable, it is also much more powerful, and you also kind of have targeting the lower of Def/Res if your tank hits physically, each hit is like a mini Glimmer, you also get an additional mini Glimmer for your first hit if your Atk is higher than the foe's, and all those mini Glimmers cannot be cockblocked by Guard. In contrast, damage Special with Flayn means that although your Dodge is very reliable, it is also quite a bit less powerful, and your damage Special can get neutered on occasion by a foe's Guard.

Arden
+Atk+Res
Arden's Blade [special]
Swap
Pavise
Fierce Breath — Warding Breath
Hardy Fighter
AR Near Save
Quick Riposte

In my opinion, I think Arden is one of the best Near Save armor to take advantage of all the fun new mechanics. He can reach an absurd 75% damage reduction and also basically got Special Fighter in his kit. Since his Meister sword hits almost as hard as a normal Weapon, and since he can quad with it, the two extra hits are basically double Deadeyes, and Múspell backing him up means that he can trigger even more mini Glimmers against his enemies.

Draug, Gwendolyn, and Sheena got godawful Atk, so they probably want a setup using damage Specials with Flayn as support, but for everyone else, I think you can go either way.

[Ice Dragon]

26 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am not so sure about it being a niche build. Dodge is powerful, and I think it has a strong chance of being mainstream, especially when you can get it as high as 75% on a single unit without using support.

The 75% damage reduction may be huge, but it's also in no way all that reliable.

Defensive Specials are physically impossible to have activate against consecutive attacks, making it unreliable for dealing with Duo Catria team compositions, which I have been seeing more of recently due to her rerun (and is the reason why I've started using Flayn). In order to have reliable damage reduction, you're forced to run a Deflect skill in the Sacred Seal slot, which prevents you from running Quick Riposte or Steady Breath.

Without a Breath skill, you're also forced to drop from 75% damage reduction to 51% damage reduction, which is much less impressive, and if you run a Breath skill in the A slot, then you're likely also losing out on both Guard and Dull.

I think Pavise + double Muspell is only really worth using if you don't have to deal with Duo Catria, and it'll likely become less reliable as time passes and we get more units with Guard or that nullify Special charge rate bonuses. Even if double Muspell does catch on, I think it'll still end up backing down from Pavise to Escutcheon for reliability.

Personally, I still wouldn't recommend Hardy Fighter on any unit other than Ascended Fjorm and Brave Hector, and Brave Hector is still the shakier of the two.

[Midnox]

I was expecting to pull the sparkling, or whatever is called the summon where you chose your desired character. I DID get another Ascended Fjorm shortly before, but figured she could use a merge, AND another of those medals for a forma soul.

 

man, I can’t wait for Ascended Laegjarn. She better have a fire horse, longma, kirin, or whatever 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Midnox