Is it just me or are the supports in this game pretty lackluster?

[RobinLucinaFan]

Three Houses took support conversations and turned them into miniature novels. I initially thought Dorothea was just a typical flirt, but quickly became mesmerized about how much depth was actually packed into her character during the B and A support convos; didn't hesitate to have my Byleth S support. Same went for a lot of characters in that game. IAnd it wasn't just the prospect of romancing anyone either. Lysithea, Felix, Sylvain, Ferdinand, Dimitri (best written FE character in the entire series imo), Ashe, Bernadetta. All cliches at the surface, but quickly characters I found myself deeply caring about due to how much depth they conveyed. 

I came into this game with the same expectations and stumbled across the archer, Etie. Sure, they certainly seems to only care about "gains" and getting her muscles "a treat", but I figured there was going to be something more to her physical fitness fixation after seeing Alear's C Support conversation with her where he finds himself astonished by her confidence. So I quickly made Etie a staple in my party and turned her into a OHKO murder machine. Around the middle of the game, I see her B support about jogging with Alear. Initially I'm disappointed, but quickly figure that the writer is saving all of the ammunition for the A support. Towards the end of the game, i finally see her A support where Alear talks about wanting to inspire others with physical fitness. Am again disappointed, but I hold out hope that maybe that S support will tie everything together and give Etie some character depth. Lo and behold, I get to the S support conversation and it is every bit as disappointing as the previous conversations. Not only does it fail to make Etie any more than a one dimensional character, but you can't really even call it a romance. Alear and Etie decide to become "jogging buddies" forever. Yay!! 🤣 I then think that maybe they will clean it up in the epilogue, but even that is bare bones! Something about Etie picking flowers while Alear rules.

Maybe Three Houses spoiled us a little bit, but I feel like very little thought was put into these characters and their respective support conversations. I feel like literally no thought was put into the epilogue texts. Which is a shame because they have historically only been about a paragraph or two or length. Does not take a lot of time to write them (I could probably write something meaningful about every single character/pairing in a single day if I wanted to), but it just felt especially uninspired in this game. I pulled all of Alear's support conversations on youtube and I got the same vibe from supports in general. Hopefully some of this (i.e. the epilogues) gets addressed in the DLC, but I doubt it.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by RobinLucinaFan

[Florete]

It's different, but I honestly like Engage's supports more. They get to the punch a lot faster and are more entertaining in general. Three Houses spams you with a ton of supports, and a lot of them have the same general tone to them. It got really exhausting.

[Jotari]

The secret truth is that supports in all games are lack lustre. And that's why Radiant Dawn has the best supports.

[Sentinel07]

Yeah, pretty much. Not particularly deep or entertaining honestly.

[Scaramuccia]

Engage supports are very different from 3h because characters are different. It isn't a team where everyone had problematic past(side note: could you name 3 characters in 3H with "average life experience"?) There are some characters that had troublesome stories, but many of them(especially in Fierene) are people who had "boring life" before the whole story started. There is something to learn about them, but don't expect dramatic past everywhere.

Meanwhile even with such limitations I like most of the supports. Take Etie/Boucheron as an example. The same Etie you are complaining about and Boucheron who is also considered a boring person by many.

C - General introduction support - characters behave as expected, muscle gains are a main theme as expected

B - Hilarious conversation. It is very light but quite funny on many levels. Especially if you've don fitness discussions in real life

A - Some hidden motives are revealed. Characters got some experience and now are a bit different. It isn't a big change because the original "conflict" isn't dramatic, but it completes the ark and you just know a bit more about them. 

I could understand that some people prefer darker and conflicting stories, but I can't name this one lackluster. Still there are some disturbing topics discussed in the game with small hints that are easy to miss(Louis is an odd example of the writing about conflicting themes).

Edited February 1, 2023 by Scaramuccia
revision

[BloodRonin]

Some supports are honestly so great. I love the dancer's supports. He has the best imo. 

 

But I think they wanted supports to be less this time around. I know 3h had some gripe with them being too long. 

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Scaramuccia said:

(side note: could you name 3 characters in 3H with "average life experience"?)

How about Manuela, Linhardt and Alois? They seem to have pretty subdued backstories in the drama department.

[Alexmender]

The supports this time are like Awakening, you get some that explore some facets of the characters while others just focus on their initial gimmick.

I've seen so many people say Celine is just "I like tea" but from some supports (Fogato and Alcryst come to mind) I see there's more to her than just tea. On the other hand her support with Louis is mostly about tea from C to A-rank with only a sprinkle of Celine not liking people getting in harms way to get her stuff she likes. 

I prefer Engage's supports to 3H because the latter can take like 5+ minutes (at times it felt like some supports took an hour) per convo and that gets tiring with how many supports you need to sit through in one go as they unlock very quickly and some expire after some time and then you're SoL.

[Scaramuccia]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Manuela

I agree that she isn't that dramatic compared to others, but it tells a lot about 3h that an alcoholic with deep sexuality problems is considered as an example of "that's fine".

[Armchair General]

I gave up on  this game's supports after I saw Etie's and Boucheron's second conversation. Sure, it was hilarious; but I was kind of expecting an lot more from this game, considering how long this has been in development.

 

And I also think they've butchered Ike's personality with his Bond Conversations.

 

I actually think it's an improvement for him

[Speedy]

There are some supports that feel rather pointless and they usually revolve around character's specific gimmick, so they can feel quite repetetive (some of them really reminds me of Bernadetta supports where almost all of them are get scared=>defensively talk=>get more comfortable around the other person).

On the other hand its interesting when you know certain characters gimmicks and you wonder how they gonna clash in support between each other.

Other thing I noticed about Engage supports, they are much more connected between each supports, basicaly support from C to A is one story, rather to be 3 different topics.

Anyway for me the main purpose of these supports is that they tell us more about that character, cause main campaign really focuses on Alear and other characters are just background figures. It's thanks to supports I really appreciate Yunaka as a character and you learn there is more to her than being very smiley theif. Also Anna's support made me to totaly change my mind about her for the better.

Spoiler

On the other hand I absolutely hate Vayle's supports cause almost all of them starts with her apologizing to a character.

Also I'm kinda disappointed there are no S supports between non-player characters and no paired endings.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Speedy

[DefyingFates]

I think the supports are shorter than Three Houses, but that's because everyone gets Bond Conversations with all the Emblems instead and I assume it was just a question of how much of their (IS and the VA's) time and resources they wanted to allocate where.

In terms of substance, then I agree that there are a lot more "goofy/ one-note" Supports than in Three Houses - which really just kept those to a handful of folk like Bernadetta - but there are a lot of good ones in there too. It's not like Fates where 99% of Supports were just characters talking about their respective gimmicks.

[Scaramuccia]

Does anyone else found Louis supports problematic? I am OK with him looking at other people, but hints about him making sexual fantasies involving people he watched (Ivy C, Clanne B) are troublesome.

[eclipse]

29 minutes ago, Scaramuccia said:

Does anyone else found Louis supports problematic? I am OK with him looking at other people, but hints about him making sexual fantasies involving people he watched (Ivy C, Clanne B) are troublesome.

There's a reason why I like Jade calling him out.

That being said, I feel like too many of the supports lean into a character's gimmick.  Alfred/Amber is a prime example of this.

[Speedy]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

I think the supports are shorter than Three Houses, but that's because everyone gets Bond Conversations with all the Emblems instead and I assume it was just a question of how much of their (IS and the VA's) time and resources they wanted to allocate where.

In terms of substance, then I agree that there are a lot more "goofy/ one-note" Supports than in Three Houses - which really just kept those to a handful of folk like Bernadetta - but there are a lot of good ones in there too. It's not like Fates where 99% of Supports were just characters talking about their respective gimmicks.

I will admit due to how complicated it is to build supports between non-players characters, unless you give everyone lost item passive from byleth ring, I have not seen all of, or even majority of supports, but those I did I'd say so far is 75% cringe 25% interesting supports. But I do hope that those I ahve not seen might be the better ones. 🙂

[Xylaugheon Daily]

I guess I'm the only person who went into this game with no expectations. This game was made as a celebration of there series. If anything is ever better than fan service surface level, I'm content. That's why I'm still only so satisfied, as this is more of an appetizer to hold me off to the true next mainline/Echoes. That said, is say there are some just fine to pretty good characters, and their supports generally reflect that.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Scaramuccia said:

I agree that she isn't that dramatic compared to others, but it tells a lot about 3h that an alcoholic with deep sexuality problems is considered as an example of "that's fine".

Oh the criteria wasn't "that's fine". It was "average life experience", and Manuela is a pretty realistic portrayal of a, for want of a better word, cougar.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Speedy said:

 

On the other hand I absolutely hate [REDACTED] supports cause almost all of them starts with her apologizing to a character.

 

Shit man, spoiler that stuff. 😞

[Speedy]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Shit man, spoiler that stuff. 😞

Spoiler

Sorry, edited it, but did not really consider it a spoiler, since it was rather obvious she will join you. This game does way too obvious foreshadowing.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Speedy

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Speedy said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry, edited it, but did not really consider it a spoiler, since it was rather obvious she will join you. This game does way too obvious foreshadowing.

 

I mean, I'm not surprised. But it could have went the other way too and I wouldn't have been surprised.

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Speedy said:

unless you give everyone lost item passive from byleth ring

I've given everyone Corrin's Quality Time (the basic version). I don't know how good it is, but you get it at Level 3 so can inherit it to everyone easily. Does anyone else have any experience with it, by the way?

1 hour ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

I guess I'm the only person who went into this game with no expectations.

My only hopes were for the cast to be better than Fates but even ignoring that I'm happy. As has already been said, some of the cast is pretty simple but others are surprisingly well done. I've talked before about how much I wound up liking Alear, but the other Lords are pretty cool too. Ivy for example: I fully expected her to be the next Camilla, but she wound up a lot more interesting than I expected and is probably one of my favorites of the new cast.

[Speedy]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

I've given everyone Corrin's Quality Time (the basic version). I don't know how good it is, but you get it at Level 3 so can inherit it to everyone easily. Does anyone else have any experience with it, by the way?

I actually learned quite recently that passive gives support bonus. You do need to be able to heal units with that though. I saw some tricks how you can exploit that, but its still hard to farm support I say. 😄

[DefyingFates]

5 minutes ago, Speedy said:

You do need to be able to heal units with that though.

Wait, you only get the Support boost if you heal someone?! I only saw it proc a few times but assumed that was just the healing part and the Support boost was always active... how can you exploit it, could you direct me to what you saw or read, please? Too bad there's no Ardent Sacrifice in Engage and that Byleth's Lost and Found passive is unlocked so late...

Anyway, to get back on topic: while I don't want FE to always have simple stories going forward, I think it's fine to have a mix of the two and Engage is very engaging entertaining so I have no issues with it. And as I mentioned earlier, Engage is still much better than other "simpler" stories like Fates and Echoes (and I daresay parts of Three Hopes).

Edited February 1, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Speedy]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Wait, you only get the Support boost if you heal someone?! I only saw it proc a few times but assumed that was just the healing part and the Support boost was always active... how can you exploit it, could you direct me to what you saw or read, please? Too bad there's no Ardent Sacrifice in Engage and that Byleth's Lost and Found passive is unlocked so late...

It was in Faerghast video 

He was using a trick, where he set ablaze ground under these units, so you are able to heal them.

[DefyingFates]

3 minutes ago, Speedy said:

It was in Faerghast video 

He was using a trick, where he set ablaze ground under these units, so you are able to heal them.

Thanks! Setting your teammates on fire to make them bond faster is... so sadistic. Is that what the Fiery Bonds from the ending song are about?