Would you consider resetting ring RNG tainting the rules of an iron man run?

[Ⱥstra]

Hi,

I recently started a maddening iron with DLC, plan to do one without once I succeed at this one. I must say though, them forcing all this extra money, resources, stat boosters and strong weapons into your inventory is quite annoying, since I did not want to use them and therefore had to discard everything, aside from the ore which can't be discarded. I don't really understand why they did not put all these resources in a box for you to take at will. The engage subreddit thought I was trolling for having this grievance however, so maybe this forum feels the same.

Anyway, I was wondering what you all hink about resetting the somniel to get S rank rings in an iron man. This removes the gacha element from the gacha (which is good for strategies) and it just becomes a matter of time before one gets the S rank ring one wants. I immediately went and did this when the ring chamber became available. It never even occurred to me that this might somehow go against the ideas of not loading saves in an iron man, since I think that rule has basically always been associated with the maps themselves and not some hub world. I don't really consider this tainting the rules since it actually removes RNG out of a stupid system and the rings are fun to use but I have seen that multiple streamers do consider that tainting the rules, so I am interested in what the forum here thinks on the matter.

Thanks and have a nice day!

[octo_p]

The game is yours. If you really need someone telling you how you should to play your game, why don't you take a few minutes, write the rules that you want to impose to yourself and respect them?

In my opinion, manipulating the RNG for rings is far worse than receiving a few resources from the DLC. Those resources don't affect the game in a meaningful way like a Dire Thunder or Wind God would.

Anyways, it's your game and your rules. Whatever a streamer does has nothing to do with you. Write your rules down and play by following it, much better than trying to match what a random person defines as a proper playthrough.

[Florete]

I'll start with the disclaimer that it's your run and you can make your own rules and do whatever you want. But you are asking, so...

Yes, I would say that "taints" your run. To me, the primary rule of an iron man run is "no resetting." Every decision is final. I wouldn't limit this to just the maps themselves, I would extend it to everything. Yeah, the gacha element is kind of stupid, but that's totally arbitrary, and getting Dire Thunder as soon as you get Leif is also kind of stupid. The gacha element is a deliberate part of the game and what any one individual thinks of it shouldn't matter.

In a few weeks time (hopefully) I'll be doing an iron man draft with some friends and I'm going to make it clear that the "no resetting" rule applies to this as well. Refer to the top of this post again if needed, but that's my opinion on the matter.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Florete

[joevar]

like others have said, its your self-imposing limitation/rules. so only you can set it or break it.

But I also would like to say YES, it taints the Ironman mode. Because i see this as the same as reloading a save-states to repeat a turn.

Dunno about more newer games, or specifically Engage. But some FE will yield different result even when you do exact same thing in same turn but in different order than before resetting, while doing same thing will always gives same result. so some losses can be avoided, some win can be achieved even when you just doing same thing ultiamtely. definitely trivialize ironman. not to mention you're gonna target some specific S rings anyways which are quite game-changing

[Ⱥstra]

52 minutes ago, joevar said:

like others have said, its your self-imposing limitation/rules. so only you can set it or break it.

But I also would like to say YES, it taints the Ironman mode. Because i see this as the same as reloading a save-states to repeat a turn.

Dunno about more newer games, or specifically Engage. But some FE will yield different result even when you do exact same thing in same turn but in different order than before resetting, while doing same thing will always gives same result. so some losses can be avoided, some win can be achieved even when you just doing same thing ultiamtely. definitely trivialize ironman. not to mention you're gonna target some specific S rings anyways which are quite game-changing

I am well aware that its all up to me in the end but I still like to hear the thoughts from others on stuff like this. The second to last thing you talk about is why I dislike divine pulse, since I end getting so many charges that I can just reroll RNG as I please. I do agree that certain rings like Olwen, who I think is better than Celica, is pretty game changing but I also think getting 10 steel, 10 Silver, steel weapons, silver weapons and a bunch of stat boosters is equally if not more game changing. I think I will keep the iron man going since I plan to use DLC emblems anyway, meaning the game will be broken in half either way. I suppose the purest iron man would be with no DLC whatsoever and no ring rerolling, which I plan to do eventually. I do no like that the ore and money are forced into my inventory for this exact reason. If I want to remove all trace of that, then I need to buy a bunch of weapons and upgrade them but calculate the amount of resources and money I need to leave remaining that are from the base game. It is a minor annoyance that could have easily been avoided by putting all the resources in a box like three houses did.

[Ⱥstra]

3 hours ago, octo_p said:

The game is yours. If you really need someone telling you how you should to play your game, why don't you take a few minutes, write the rules that you want to impose to yourself and respect them?

In my opinion, manipulating the RNG for rings is far worse than receiving a few resources from the DLC. Those resources don't affect the game in a meaningful way like a Dire Thunder or Wind God would.

Anyways, it's your game and your rules. Whatever a streamer does has nothing to do with you. Write your rules down and play by following it, much better than trying to match what a random person defines as a proper playthrough.

I am well aware that its all up to me in the end but I like hearing the thoughts of the community, hence why I made the post lol. I do disagree that the DLC resources are not equally as game breaking though. I went into that a bit more in a different reply so I won't bother repeating myself. Wave 2 added even more resources that are forced into your inventory after all.

[Ⱥstra]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

I'll start with the disclaimer that it's your run and you can make your own rules and do whatever you want. But you are asking, so...

Yes, I would say that "taints" your run. To me, the primary rule of an iron man run is "no resetting." Every decision is final. I wouldn't limit this to just the maps themselves, I would extend it to everything. Yeah, the gacha element is kind of stupid, but that's totally arbitrary, and getting Dire Thunder as soon as you get Leif is also kind of stupid. The gacha element is a deliberate part of the game and what any one individual thinks of it shouldn't matter.

In a few weeks time (hopefully) I'll be doing an iron man draft with some friends and I'm going to make it clear that the "no resetting" rule applies to this as well. Refer to the top of this post again if needed, but that's my opinion on the matter.

I am indeed asking! Thank you for your input. The gacha element is stupid because you can just luck out, get the Olwen ring and have a huge advantage over someone else who does not get the Olwen ring. Will you be using the DLC in your iron man draft? What are your thoughts on the bonus resources, etc?

[joevar]

11 minutes ago, Ⱥstra said:

I am well aware that its all up to me in the end but I still like to hear the thoughts from others on stuff like this. The second to last thing you talk about is why I dislike divine pulse, since I end getting so many charges that I can just reroll RNG as I please. I do agree that certain rings like Olwen, who I think is better than Celica, is pretty game changing but I also think getting 10 steel, 10 Silver, steel weapons, silver weapons and a bunch of stat boosters is equally if not more game changing.

cheers. hope you can finally set what is allowed and what is not allowed. And I cant comment on the DLC since i dont have it yet. but considering its Maddening, which also means no grinding in skirmish, getting a couple material for upgrade dont feel game changing as much as getting certain ring, since its not much, and you still need money to do it anyway. But free stat booster definitely is.

but did they really gave you silver weapon free at early game from DLC? thats.. wow.

[Armchair General]

1 hour ago, joevar said:

or specifically Engage. But some FE will yield different result even when you do exact same thing in same turn but in different order than before resetting

This doesn't work with Engage, considering how I had to deal with an seeded crit against Alear

[Ⱥstra]

Just now, joevar said:

cheers. hope you can finally set what is allowed and what is not allowed. And I cant comment on the DLC since i dont have it yet. but considering its Maddening, which also means no grinding in skirmish, getting a couple material for upgrade dont feel game changing as much as getting certain ring, since its not much, and you still need money to do it anyway. But free stat booster definitely is.

but did they really gave you silver weapon free at early game from DLC? thats.. wow.

Yeah you get a free 30k , Steel weapons, Silver weapons, books that give SP; some bond fragments (I like the bond fragments) and the other stuff already mentioned. You can immediately use these materials to make forge the heck out of a bunch of weapons. I plan to do a run without any DLC eventually and the frustrating thing about that is that I have to go out of my way to remove all the bonus content from my inventory since its forced into it. Maybe there is a way to temporarily disable DLC or something.

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, Ⱥstra said:

Yeah you get a free 30k , Steel weapons, Silver weapons, books that give SP; some bond fragments (I like the bond fragments) and the other stuff already mentioned. You can immediately use these materials to make forge the heck out of a bunch of weapons. I plan to do a run without any DLC eventually and the frustrating thing about that is that I have to go out of my way to remove all the bonus content from my inventory since its forced into it. Maybe there is a way to temporarily disable DLC or something.

I mean, technically speaking, you can just "ignore" the extra resources, but it's more mental work. That said, I think you can disable internet access and reset the install? Or am I thinking of Steam Deck?

[Ⱥstra]

1 minute ago, dragonlordsd said:

I mean, technically speaking, you can just "ignore" the extra resources, but it's more mental work. That said, I think you can disable internet access and reset the install? Or am I thinking of Steam Deck?

its an annoying amount of mental work, since I cant forge away all the extra resources smoothly, since you only unlock the forge after already getting forge materials from the overworld and money from Firene. The math probably does not even add up and one would probably end up with some of the resources left or with less than one would have from the base game. In my current run, I bought and discarded a bunch of items and then realized too late that now I don't have the money to forge away all the extra iron, steel and silver, so instead I turned it all into iron and now have 2,000 iron lol.

[dragonlordsd]

4 minutes ago, Ⱥstra said:

In my current run, I bought and discarded a bunch of items and then realized too late that now I don't have the money to forge away all the extra iron, steel and silver, so instead I turned it all into iron and now have 2,000 iron lol.

Lol, perfect. New rule, that's how you have to start every iron man.

[Ⱥstra]

6 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Lol, perfect. New rule, that's how you have to start every iron man.

Lol sadly I think that will be the case, unless I get desperate after losing a bunch of iron mans. It seems I cant stop the game from forcing the materials into my inventory, though a better solution is probably to get rid of the money and forge materials via forging a bunch of weapons

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

5 hours ago, Ⱥstra said:

I was wondering what you all hink about resetting the somniel to get S rank rings in an iron man.

No. Only thing that matters in an ironman, is what happens on the map. 

[Ⱥstra]

56 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

No. Only thing that matters in an ironman, is what happens on the map. 

I thought the same, hence why it never even occurred to me how resetting rings could be considered "taint" until I heard someone mention it. It seems not considering it taint is the minority opinion however. I think that both perspectives make sense to be honest.

[Hiroki]

I'm not sure I get what you said, but, do you think free stats booster are bad? In my opinion, abusing the RNG behind the rings mechanics is worse, since it becomes like powerful free stats booster. If you know exactly when you'll get a good ring, you can then bend the game to have what you want, and more importantly use it. I find it more game changing than just having some stats booster (which you can throw away) or some gold and materials (that you can waste "easily"). Rings give some boost to more than one stats, generally, plus certain skills for the more powerful ones. It's especially game changing when you're in the part of the game where you lost all your Emblems.

 

Anyway, at last, you're the one playing by your own rules. You ask for other opinions, we gave it to you. It's your choice to take those into account, or not. After all, it's your game.

 

PS: If what's only matter is what happens on the map, then the stat booster items and the free materials are not a problem either. Like for the rings, it's free boosts.

[Ⱥstra]

13 minutes ago, Hiroki said:

I'm not sure I get what you said, but, do you think free stats booster are bad? In my opinion, abusing the RNG behind the rings mechanics is worse, since it becomes like powerful free stats booster. If you know exactly when you'll get a good ring, you can then bend the game to have what you want, and more importantly use it. I find it more game changing than just having some stats booster (which you can throw away) or some gold and materials (that you can waste "easily"). Rings give some boost to more than one stats, generally, plus certain skills for the more powerful ones. It's especially game changing when you're in the part of the game where you lost all your Emblems.

 

Anyway, at last, you're the one playing by your own rules. You ask for other opinions, we gave it to you. It's your choice to take those into account, or not. After all, it's your game.

 

PS: If what's only matter is what happens on the map, then the stat booster items and the free materials are not a problem either. Like for the rings, it's free boosts.

I am well aware that I asked for your opinions, since I made this post asking for your opinions. 

Stat boosters together with free silver weapons that you can immediately forge will make much more of a difference than a ring that gives you a few points in your stats, aside from some of the extremely good rings like Olwen or Deidre. I don't think its so easy to waste the gold and forging materials, since you cant get rid of the forging materials until chapter 5, and by that point you have been given 10k and some base game forging materials. This means having to do exact math by forging and buying enough weapons to get rid of all the DLC money and ore, whilst keeping the base game currency. This may not even add up properly in the end. This means each no DLC iron man run (which will probably take quite a few attempts) has to be started with this process, which is annoying.

I do agree that me rigging rings does give me quite the advantage but so does me using the DLC emblems, which is also happening in this run. The DLC iron man is my warm up anyways, so I suppose it is fitting. Even so, I wanted to maintain some level of difficulty and strategic resource management, hence why I tossed out the resources.

[Florete]

5 hours ago, Ⱥstra said:

I am indeed asking! Thank you for your input. The gacha element is stupid because you can just luck out, get the Olwen ring and have a huge advantage over someone else who does not get the Olwen ring. Will you be using the DLC in your iron man draft? What are your thoughts on the bonus resources, etc?

We won't be using DLC, but I think using it is not necessarily a problem since it doesn't break the core "no resets" rule. However, since it does seem pretty powerful, it should probably be limited to some degree to keep the run interesting.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I would say that resetting for random resources (whether it's bond rings, "spirits of the fallen" items, meal boosts, etc.) goes against the spirit of an Ironman run, if not necessarily the letter. I wouldn't do it if I were playing an Ironman. But it's your playthrough, so do it by your own rules.

I don't have the DLC, so I'm not going to make any statement on how to handle those items in your particular run.

[lenticular]

I think it depends on what you're trying to get out of the ironman in the first place, which is going to vary from player to player.

If you want to have an emergent narative as you cope with units dying: save scumming for rings is fine.

If you're trying to challenge yourself to a harder way of playing the game: save scumming for rings would go against that.

If you want to deal with whatever RNG the game throws at you, deal with the good and the bad, and roll with the punches: no, you shouldn't be save scumming.

If you're mostly after a way to make yourself concentrate during battles and try to make yourself always play optimally: it probably doesn't hurt at all.

If you're wanting to compare your experience or compete against others: it doesn't really matter which you choose, so long as you're doing the same as they are.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

I honestly don't care. And do they still give out warnings for multiple post? Either way, it is far more neat to do all your quoteposting in a single reply. You also don't have to quote and reply to everything, especially if you're just repeating yourself. And if you want to do without the DLC you can follow the steps Nintendo themselves say.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Xylaugheon Daily

[scigeek101]

I'd say that the general idea of an iron man run would be to play the game as if the save feature doesn't exist  That is that saving at all goes against the spirit of the run. Of course, for a game as long as this, that is unreasonable to play it all in one sitting. So saving and reloading from that save doesn't really break the idea, but it's supposed to be one continuous playthrough and if you reload a save to do something different, like scumming for rings, I do think that isn't really in line with a strict iron man run. Same as how getting your lord killed and getting a game over should be a restart from the beginning in a "true iron man". Run. 

 

Though granted I would likely save scum the rings and continue after lord death anyway cause why not? I wouldn't say the clear would "count" but it's not like anyone is taking score and it's not like anyone is enforcing the "rules". 

Personally I'd say the gatcha random elements add some spice to the run. Though it's pretty lame how few of the S rank rings actually give skills. 

 

[Ⱥstra]

2 hours ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

I honestly don't care. And do they still give out warnings for multiple post? Either way, it is far more neat to do all your quoteposting in a single reply. You also don't have to quote and reply to everything, especially if you're just repeating yourself. And if you want to do without the DLC you can follow the steps Nintendo themselves say.

I didn't even know multiquote was a thing until you just pointed it out. I saw that page from nintendo and I don't think it applies to me, since I have the game physically. I am thinking that perhaps I need to take out the cartridge,  uninstall (deleting the updates), turn off auto updates in the system menu and then put the cartridge back in. I can't test if this works right now though, since im in the middle of using the DLC and idk what that would do to the save file.

[CompteSecours]

Ironman = no reset.