Linking the Games/Continents

[luigi bros]

After reading the Taguel origin topic (and it's progression into the evolution of Manaketes) I thought it would be an interesting discussion to see how the worlds/continents of the series comes together and links.

As far as I know it is canon that Ylisse/Archanea, Valencia/Valm, and Jugdral are all in the same world. The question here is how do they fit into a timeline? Which continents events happen first?

Then there is Elibe. I believe that on the other side of the Dragon's Gate is either Archanea's Fane of Raman or the Alterspire (FE11 Chapter 24x). This would place Archanea in an alternate dimension. Once again, "when" does the other side of the gate go? When Nils returns, when is he going? I can only guess that it is before the early wars, since there is no mention of violence.

Magvel seemingly doesn't fit in anywhere. Either it's another continent in Elibe or Archanea's world, or it's another parallel dimension.

As for Tellius, I actually think it fits in at the end of the timeline. It is a seperate continent in the world of Archanea, the Laguz are descendants of the Taguel and Manakates. The reason I place it here is because of the Great Flood. This would have destroyed all other continents.

I'm guessing on a lot of things here, and I haven't read in depth interviews about the series. However, I think it would be interesting to see how everything fits together.

[PresidentEden]

Priam claims to be the descendant (son?) of Ike... which would place Tellius and Ylisse in the same universe.

[Iridium]

I like to think that the five sacred stones are somehow the five orbs of the fire emblem, but even I'm readily willing to admit that there's nothing to support this, several things that contradict this (e.g. them existing in FE13 alongside the knowledge of FE8's story where most of them were destroyed) and I'm just grasping at straws trying to find *something* besides Manaketes and Anna in common, since the story's such a strange outlier to the others.

[Acacia Sgt]

As mentioned in the interviews, the events of Jugdral happened before Archaneia's, with Lopto being one of the Earth Dragons and Bishop Galle meeting him before the Earth Dragons degenerated and attacked humanity.

[Anacybele]

Taguel and Manaketes aren't ancestors of the Laguz. The Zunanma are. So that theory won't work.

Priam claims to be the descendant (son?) of Ike... which would place Tellius and Ylisse in the same universe.

Except Ike is stated to have come from another world. So either he settled in the dimension Ylisse is in and his family stuck around there, or he left and his descendant came. So Tellius can still be in a different dimension.

I just think Elibe, Magvel, and Tellius are in their own dimensions apart from the others.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Anacybele

[Rewjeo]

From what I recall of past discussions, it was agreed that (assuming the games are all linked) Tellius comes first (deals with world creation, flood stories are hardly unusual early in legends/mythology/religion, and also gets rid of the gods so that Naga can come into play) and then Jugdral. Someone figured out dates by linking events in the Elibe/Archanea timelines (and the dragon gate being how they're connected), although I don't remember specifically how, but those followed Jugdral. FE2 fits very neatly in between FE1/3/11/12. 13 obviously comes later, and I don't recall there ever being much to link 8 to anything else.

Personally, I'm content to have all of the worlds be independent of each other.

[Anacybele]

Nobody got rid of any gods in Tellius. Ashunera was actually specified to have returned after awhile there.

[Acacia Sgt]

I remember reading long ago a theory that the reason of the decline of the Dragon civilization in Archanea was because of the Ending Winter that happened during in the Scouring. Niime mentioned that the range of effects were planet-wide.

Niime:

"I don't know anything specific, but I've read in an ancient scroll that Dragons started taking human form only after the Ending Winter."

Roy:

"The Ending Winter..."

Niime:

"You've heard about it, right?"

Roy:

"Yes, only in legend. 'At the Winder of Ends, the laws of nature were turned upside down. Day became night, and summer became winter.'"

Niime:

"That's it. These scrolls are so old and damaged so I couldn't decipher all of them, but one thing is clear. The Ending Winter was a disaster powerful enough to bend and twist the planet."

Personally I could think it's doable, but that's pretty much the only "evidence" that exists that can support the theory.

[Rewjeo]

Nobody got rid of any gods in Tellius. Ashunera was actually specified to have returned after awhile there.

I forgot about that. The 1200 years thing with Lehran. I'm thinking I remember someone linking that to the Scouring and such... Eh, I'd still rather see the worlds separated.

[Sock]

I still say Tellius=Jugdral. Turn Tellius' map 180 degrees and compare to northeast Jugdral.

This theory of mine originated last June. On the non-rotated map, there's a tower on an island east of Bengion. I got to thinking if there were any other "tower on an island" situations. Blagi tower! It fits; the island simply shifted a bit. Phoenicis and Kilvas appeared/vanished over time. There is unmapped land to the north and east of Daein; Hatari Desert is to the east and it might extend north, which is the same general area as Yied Desert. ...Other than that, I don't know anything about Jugdral's topography. Shame shame...

However, this doesn't help explained when. I'm at a loss for that. :x

Edit: Just compared them again, and...man, that's some massive continental changes. It...almost seems like they are simply lookalikes. Meh... Obviously I haven't checked for at least a few months... Then again, look at Akaneia/Ylisse.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Tsamimi

[luigi bros]

I still say Tellius=Jugdral. Turn Tellius' map 180 degrees and compare to northeast Jugdral.

This theory of mine originated last June. On the non-rotated map, there's a tower on an island east of Bengion. I got to thinking if there were any other "tower on an island" situations. Blagi tower! It fits; the island simply shifted a bit. Phoenicis and Kilvas appeared/vanished over time. There is unmapped land to the north and east of Daein; Hatari Desert is to the east and it might extend north, which is the same general area as Yied Desert. ...Other than that, I don't know anything about Jugdral's topography. Shame shame...

However, this doesn't help explained when. I'm at a loss for that. :x

Edit: Just compared them again, and...man, that's some massive continental changes. It...almost seems like they are simply lookalikes. Meh... Obviously I haven't checked for at least a few months... Then again, look at Akaneia/Ylisse.

I haven't payed any attention to that comparison, but look at Magvel and Tellius. They look just about identical just rotated.

[Lhyonnaes]

And here I was, about to go to sleep.

This is the way that I see things.

Chronological order is 9, 10, 7, 6, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 8, 13.

The Tellius games contain the only legitimate examples of divinity in the series, and it more or less goes away. Ashyunera shows back up 1200 years later or so, but that is a bit hard to base anything off of because we have no idea as to the conflict in question, and it seems like Ashyunera isn't going to take much of an active role anyways. Also if you want to believe that the Manakete are descended from the Dragon Laguz, then the Tellius games need to go first.

The Elibe games go next. In the Scouring, following the Ending Winter, the dragons, forced into Manakete form, ventured through the Dragon's Gate to the continent of Archanea. (I currently suspect that the Ruins of Time are the other side of the Dragon's Gate). One thousand or so years later, Nils and Ninian are called by Nergal back through the gate. They explicitly mention at this point in time they live in a dragon civilization, where there are few humans and where they do not need to take on a Manakete form (consolidating their power into Dragonstones and the associated magic-level related shock is what enables Nergal to capture them in the first place). Thus, the Ending Winter cannot be the cause of the downfall of the dragon tribe in Archanea because 1000 years later they are still in their "golden age", so to speak. This seems to reinforce the belief that the Dragon Tribe originally comes from Elibe.

Around 2000 years after the events of FE7, some bad thing happens in Archanea. It's largely unspecified but it leads to the dragons deciding that they need to assume a manakete form once again. The earth dragons disagree and war breaks out. At some point Bishop Galle sails to Archanea from Jugdral and makes his pact with Loptous. I suspect that this happens later in the war, as making his pact gives Loptous an ingenious way to avoid getting sealed away with the rest of the earth dragons (having a floating homeless Loptous spirit bothering him later also could help explain why Medeus turns evil, but that's beside the point). Around 200 years after that, the Miracle at Darna happens, and around 100 years after that, FE4 and FE5 happen.

Depending on when exactly the pact between Loptous and Galee took place, FE1, 2, and 3 take place around 900 years after FE4 and 5, give or take a century.

Some time after this the events of FE8 happen. Why after this? Magvel doesn't have many explicit connections, but it does have one. In Saleh and Eirika's B support, Saleh comments that Eirika reminds him of a folk heroine from Caer Peyln, who wielding a slim sword made from a dragon's fang. This seems to imply that Magvel at some point in history had contact with a user of the Falchion (Unrecorded Archanean interference would also explain why there is an unsustainably-sized population of Manakete living in Darkling Woods, also fit in line with potential speculation about the Demon King's origins) Keep in mind that Awakening is still chronologically the last game in the series, so FE8 falls somewhere in the 2000 years before FE13 and after FE3 (I suspect that it falls decidedly on the FE13 side but that's a bit too speculative for here).

I personally don't believe that there is any "continental overlap", shall we say, as discussed by previous posters. I don't see any particular evidence for it, though the exact nature of Tellius is still a bit confusing (especially considering that Panne has seen limited numbers of other animal shapeshifters before, and the whole deal with Priam showing up).

There is a bunch of other theoretical connections between games that I could pull out, but I'll hold off on them for now.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Lhyonnaes

[VincentASM]

I personally think that the Scouring and the Archanean decline are most likely the same incident. It just seems to me that the Scouring was created to explain the Archanean decline, which previously was a total mystery.

As for the conflict with the timeline, Nils mentions that the Dragon's Gate is a gateway through space and time. So the Elibe dragons don't just warp to another continent, they warp to another time period too. In this case, presumably to a time before the Scouring occured.

[Lhyonnaes]

I personally think that the Scouring and the Archanean decline are most likely the same incident. It just seems to me that the Scouring was created to explain the Archanean decline, which previously was a total mystery.

As for the conflict with the timeline, Nils mentions that the Dragon's Gate is a gateway through space and time. So the Elibe dragons don't just warp to another continent, they warp to another time period too. In this case, presumably to a time before the Scouring occured.

That could be possible, but it runs into an odd problem later. Because with that theory, then when the Archanean disaster happens, the dragons are well aware of what is going on. So why then to the Earth Dragons refuse Manakete form, knowing full well that they are throwing away their sanity in the process? Though who knows, they could just be really stubborn.

Though there's really no canonical basis for this, my explanation for the war is as follows - after 3000 years of happiness in Archanea, the dragons notice that the magic levels are starting to degenerate.Furthermore, humanity in on the rise on the nearby continent of Jugdral, though in Archanea they're still only sparse and scattered tribes. Remembering the Scouring and the Ending Winter, the dragons decide that it's in everyone's best interests for the dragons to willingly take on Manakete form. The Earth Dragons, though, refuse, probably seeing it as akin to surrendering to the hated humans. War breaks out between the dragons, which ironically really does a number on the already degenerating magic levels.

Though this admittedly doesn't fit with the given descriptions of a great disaster... but maybe Xane thought that it would be better just to summarize.

[VincentASM]

Oh yeah, I was actually thinking of the paradox issue after making my post.

The only explanation I have is that perhaps the Elibe dragons just didn't communicate with the existing Archanean dragons. For instance, maybe the Elibe dragons occupied the area around Anri's Way (the FE7 CG with the ice dragons features a temple-like building that bears some vague resemblance with the Ice Dragon Shrine), while the Archanean ones lived closer to Dolhr.

Then again, it was implied that Thabes was a dragon city (it belonged to a great civilisation and Naga perished there) and that's the beginning of Anri's Way. Hmm...

[Lhyonnaes]

Hrmmm. A thought worth considering, though it might be disprovable.

In the Elibe games, Divine Dragons, Fire Dragons, and Ice Dragons all make an appearance. To the best of my knowledge, however, Earth Dragons do not.

Perhaps at some point far before the Scouring, either the Earth Dragons left Elibe for Archanea or the other three types of dragons left Archanea for Elibe. Thus, the Earth Dragons ever experienced the Scouring and the Ending Winter, and thus refused to give up their dragon forms with the other three dragon tribes.

The Elibean dragons would thus have settled in the north probably establishing the city of Thabes close to the Dragon's Gate, before expanding outwards over time (I believe that the Ruins of Time are the most likely location of the other side of the Dragon's Gate). The Earth Dragons probably lived in the Dohlr area primarily, but it's not unlikely that the majority of their civilization was destroyed in the Dragon War.

Of course if the Elibe games ever talk about Earth Dragons, this theory is kinda shot. And I'm too lazy to look through the whole script for FE6 and 7 right now.

[Dragrath]

Or perhaps the worlds aren't all united? archanea a Jurdal I can buy as manaketes exist in both... but I would prefer that the majority stay independent of each other... maybe they can be traveled to through dimensions but overall they shouldn't be one and the same...

[VincentASM]

Hrmmm. A thought worth considering, though it might be disprovable.

It sounds good to me.

Earth Dragons definitely aren't mentioned in FE6/7; I think they're the only type that aren't mentioned (Idoun is a Demon/Mage Dragon).

Or perhaps the worlds aren't all united? archanea a Jurdal I can buy as manaketes exist in both... but I would prefer that the majority stay independent of each other... maybe they can be traveled to through dimensions but overall they shouldn't be one and the same...

That could be true as well.

FE13 even specifies that Ike travelled from another world, for example.

That said, I do wonder if FE is going along the multiverse route. In other words, there may be many worlds, but what if they're all very similar to one another (and even have the same continents)?

The first two Outrealms (Isle of Talys and Grannvale) you visit take place on lands that should exist in FE13's primary world.

Edited March 19, 2013 by VincentASM

[Crixler]

That said, I do wonder if FE is going along the multiverse route. In other words, there may be many worlds, but what if they're all very similar to one another (and even have the same continents)?

The first two Outrealms (Isle of Talys and Grannvale) you visit take place on lands that should exist in FE13's primary world.

Personally, I don't think any of the Outrealms are real. They remind me quite a bit of the Mists from Guild Wars. Info on that, if anyone's interested

So I don't think the Outrealms are actually any of the real places from the other games.

That said, I prefer the idea of all FE games being one planet/dimension (other than the Outrealms), rather than many.

[Lhyonnaes]

Personally, I don't think any of the Outrealms are real. They remind me quite a bit of the Mists from Guild Wars. Info on that, if anyone's interested

So I don't think the Outrealms are actually any of the real places from the other games.

That said, I prefer the idea of all FE games being one planet/dimension (other than the Outrealms), rather than many.

I was actually just going to reference the Mists myself. It's a very good parallel.

That being said, I think it's important to note that the DLC episodes should still be viewed as canonical, because they have so far given us some interesting information to consider - for instance, that several fairly good historical accounts of the events of FE4 and FE5 remain by Awakening's time period, though they are rather slanted in the favor of the victors and do not portray Alvis in a sympathetic light.

[Crixler]

I was actually just going to reference the Mists myself. It's a very good parallel.

That being said, I think it's important to note that the DLC episodes should still be viewed as canonical, because they have so far given us some interesting information to consider - for instance, that several fairly good historical accounts of the events of FE4 and FE5 remain by Awakening's time period, though they are rather slanted in the favor of the victors and do not portray Alvis in a sympathetic light.

Cool, another GW fan :p

And yes, I also view the DLC as canon. Not "real", but canon.

(And the concept of Einherjar makes me hope they bring back the FE Trading Cards.)

[Lhyonnaes]

Cool, another GW fan :p

To go off on a slight tangent from the intended subject of this topic, I will take the opportunity to say that I have secured the name Lucina Ylisse in Guild Wars 2, and am currently (and slowly, mind you, given that I'm playing lots of Fire Emblem) working on making her look as much like Lucina as I can.

Attached is her in current gear, loosely based off her Great Lord outfit.

...Actually, this leads me to another point of note - aside from the Lowell surname in the anime adaptation, are there any other cases of Fire Emblem nobles having a last name that is NOT the country that they hail from (Elincia Ridell Crimea, Seliph Baldus Chalphy, etc.)? This is assuming that, say, Hector of House Ostia would be Hector Ostia.

[RJWalker]

What's up with the Fire Emblem Wikia saying that Bishop Galle left Jugdral and came to Archanea to make a pact with Loptous?

[VincentASM]

What's up with the Fire Emblem Wikia saying that Bishop Galle left Jugdral and came to Archanea to make a pact with Loptous?

See the second question here : )

Personally, I don't think any of the Outrealms are real. They remind me quite a bit of the Mists from Guild Wars. Info on that, if anyone's interested

So I don't think the Outrealms are actually any of the real places from the other games.

That said, I prefer the idea of all FE games being one planet/dimension (other than the Outrealms), rather than many.

Hey, that works too and I was actually thinking about that possibility.

Although, and I'm not sure if this affects anything, FE13 isn't the first time "Outrealm" has been mentioned. Chapter 24x of FE11 has Marth visit an Outrealm tower and obtain Nagi's help.

Still, given Nagi's possible true identity, I can see her resting in an unreal world.

[Sartek]

To go off on a slight tangent from the intended subject of this topic, I will take the opportunity to say that I have secured the name Lucina Ylisse in Guild Wars 2, and am currently (and slowly, mind you, given that I'm playing lots of Fire Emblem) working on making her look as much like Lucina as I can.

Attached is her in current gear, loosely based off her Great Lord outfit.

...Actually, this leads me to another point of note - aside from the Lowell surname in the anime adaptation, are there any other cases of Fire Emblem nobles having a last name that is NOT the country that they hail from (Elincia Ridell Crimea, Seliph Baldus Chalphy, etc.)? This is assuming that, say, Hector of House Ostia would be Hector Ostia.

Leif full name would be Leif Faris Claus, based on an unused timeline.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Sartek