Pokemon Crystal Ratings

[Espinosa]

Current ratings:

9.5 - Abra

9 - Totodile, Nidoran M, Vaporeon

8.5 - Tentacool, Heracross, Geodude, Nidoran F, Scyther, Espeon

8 - Spearow, Poliwag, Gastly, Teddiursa, Magikarp, Psyduck , Machop, Pinsir, Sudowoodo, Flareon, Tauros, Stantler

7.5 - Cyndaquil, Ekans, Wooper, Sandshrew, Smoochum, Miltank

7 - Rattata, Sentret, Onix, Growlithe, Slowpoke, Aipom, Snubbull, Cubone

6.5 - Pidgey, Zubat, Bellsprout, Krabby, Qwilfish, Drowzee

6 - Chikorita, Phanpy, Jigglypuff, Magnemite

5.5 - Venonat

5 - Weedle, Goldeen, Exeggcute, Elekid, Wobbuffet, Jolteon, Koffing

4.5 - Hoothoot, Spinarak, Oddish, Pineco, Magby, Sunkern

4 - Umbreon

3.5 - Dunsparce

3 - Caterpie, Paras, Pichu

2.5 - Ledyba, Ditto, Cleffa, Tyrogue

2 - Hoppip, Yanma

1.5 - Togepi, Unown, Shuckle

[spoiler=Order by encounter time:]

Chikorita 6

Cyndaquil 7.5

Totodile 9

Pidgey 6.5

Rattata 7

Sentret 7

Hoothoot 4.5

Hoppip 2

Spearow 8

Geodude 8.5

Phanpy 6

Caterpie 3

Weedle 5

Ledyba 2.5

Spinarak 4.5

Zubat 6.5

Poliwag 8

Bellsprout 6.5

Gastly 8(3)

Teddiursa 8

Dunsparce 3.5

Onix 7 (3.5)

Growlithe 7

Togepi 1.5

Ekans 7.5

Wooper 7.5

Magikarp 8

Tentacool 8.5

Krabby 6.5

Goldeen 5

Qwilfish 6.5

Unown 1.5

Sandshrew 7.5

Slowpoke 7

Paras 3

Venonat 5.5

Psyduck 8

Oddish 4.5

Pineco 4.5

Exeggcute 5

Heracross 8.5

Aipom 7

Abra 9.5

Drowzee 6.5

Jigglypuff 6

Snubbull 7

Ditto 2.5

Pichu 3

Cleffa 2.5

Tyrogue 2.5

Smoochum 7.5

Magby 4.5

Elekid 5

Machop 8 (7)

Cubone 7

Wobbuffet 5

Yanma 2

Nidoran M 9

Nidoran F 8.5

Sunkern 4.5

Scyther 8.5

Pinsir 8

Sudowoodo 8.5

Vaporeon 9

Flareon 8

Jolteon 5

Espeon 8.5

Umbreon 4

Koffing 5

Magnemite 6

Miltank 7.5

Tauros 8

Stantler 8

Shuckle 1.5

* reconsidering the rating.

( ) - no option of trade available.

Inspired by Venusaur's Yellow Ratings thread. I liked the idea of a discussion a topic like this could encourage a whole lot but that thread has been inactive for a while, so I thought I'd try my best at my own rating thread in a different Pokemon game, this time from the second generation, which is old enough for most people to be familiar with.

The rating tries to reflect the Pokemon's efficiency in a concise, quick run, including such factors as usefulness in and outside of battle (former given by far the most prominence), availability (which includes the difficulty of catching), resources necessary to make the unit in question successful, type advantage or disadvantage against major battles of the game (gyms and elites mainly), and of course learnset, stats and coverage.

The rating assumes the player doesn't exploit glitches, that she trains multiple Pokemon for the run and doesn't grind excessively for the elite battles (hence efficiency). It is supposed that the game "ends" at the first credits seen after beating Lance for the first time (so the Kanto part of the game is postgame and not counted in the analysis).

I suppose the starters come first.

Chikorita

Chikorita is a grass starter, which isn't nearly as beneficial as it was in the previous generation - Chikorita's STAB is resisted by the first two gym leaders' Pokemon, and they have super-effective attacks to strike back with. However, Razor Leaf learnt at as early as lv. 8 is impossible to ignore, in contrast to the other starters learning their stronger moves at much higher levels - Quilava learning Flame Wheel at lv. 31 and Croconaw learning Surf after beating Whitney. Its imperfect accuracy is compensated by its high critical hit rate. On everything that does not resist it, Razor Leaf is an excellent early means of dealing damage, and remains a great way to hit water and rock/ground types that trainers are fond of using throughout the game.

However, Chikorita and its evolved forms seem to have serious learnset issues when you look past that nifty early Razor Leaf. It doesn't get a better a STAB until Solarbeam, which needs Sunny Day to be used more than once and is otherwise not a very good move. Giga Drain does indeed exist, but is acquired postgame. For non-STAB moves, the best moves it has are Body Slam, perhaps Reflect if there's a physical attack in one of the gyms or elite posing trouble, Light Screen later, Iron Tail with its poor accuracy and coverage, and Earthquake which is really wasted if used on Meganium. If you don't intend to run Meganium for support with all the screens, you'll probably turn it into a HM slave... and too many other Pokemon can function as such.

Chikorita is a defensive Pokemon to play, and compared to other grass-types, it gets neither a nice STAB Sludge Bomb for a better means of dealing damage, nor better status moves than Poisonpowder (Oddish and Bellsprout both get Sleep Powder and Stun Spore early), nor actually good offensive stats.

Speaking of Meganium's compatibility with later gym, and elite, Pokemon... It's good for Chuck's Poliwrath, hits all of Pryce's Pokemon super-effectively but receives Icy Wind in return and goes second the next turn - against all other gyms, it's either neutral, and therefore not particularly useful due to being defensively oriented, or just ineffective. Out of the elites' Pokemon, Meganium only hits Slowbro and Onix super-effectively, and while it can be taught Iron Tail and Earthquake, they will hardly do much damage, and even in cases where they're rather effective (say, hitting Muk with Earthquake or Jynx with Iron Tail), Meganium will be receiving far stronger super-effective attacks, which will kill it unless it's terribly overlevelled.

Besides the early Razor Leaf, availability is Chikorita's another major pro. Surprise, huh? You needn't catch a Chikorita, and you're pretty much forced to use it for a while early on in the game, when most other catchable things aren't nearly as good. However, that's still not saying much, as Chikorita is an average Pokemon, and other grass-types, which are also acquired rather early by the way, are more useful in the long run.

Rating: 6/10

I'd like to encourage discussions and arguments of any kind in this thread.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Cyndaquil

This game's fire starter, as has been the tradition for four Pokemon generations, is a fast, offensive Pokemon. Cyndaquil has to wait long enough to learn his first STAB attack - Ember at lv. 12, but it's well worth the wait, as around this time he should be facing and OHKOing Bellsprouts in the optional tower and bug-types in the second gym. Being a fire-type is so much more beneficial than it was in generation 1. Cyndaquil's STAB attacks are super-effective in the second gym, as previously mentioned, and also penetrate the fire weakness of all Jasmine's Pokemon. Finally, Typhlosion (hopefully he's fully evolved by that point; if he's still not, he must've been a burden to the team) can ThunderPunch Seal and Dewgong in the ice gym without fear of a water-type attack (as they don't run any) and can attack Piloswine with his best fire-type move without fear of a ground-type attack, also because one is not present.

Typhlosion's contributions in the Elite Four also exceed those of, say, Charizard in the first generation. That nasty Exeggutor will scream in agony when its weakest point - its special defence - is penetrated with a powerful Fire Punch. Jynx won't like being hit by Typhlosion either. More than a half of Koga's Pokemon do not want to see Typhlosion's STAB either, notable mention being Forretress which won't be withstanding a Fire Punch no matter the caster's level. Vileplume is another Pokemon in the E4 who can be countered with Typhlosion very nicely.

This all makes Cyndaquil sound like a wonderful starter, but it is not without its shortcomings. As mentioned previously, lv. 12 to learn Ember is a tad too late, especially when Chikorita gets the superior Razor Leaf FOUR levels earlier. Smokescreen, Quick Attack that's useful in some situations (to finish off a critical health target), a very late Swift... Not the best moves one would want to have on their natural learnset. While Typhlosion does learn Flamethrower at lv. 60, that's evidently too late as it's not happening until postgame. Instead, its efficient STAB for the late gyms and the elites is Fire Punch, available in Goldenrod in infinite amounts for a small fee, with a base power of 75. To learn Fire Punch, Cyndaquil needs to fully evolve, which happens at a late level of 36.

A rather disastrous period of time where the game's fire starter fails to deliver is the midgame. Quilava, being an early evolution, has a noticeable shortage of good moves. Flame Wheel, its STAB update to Ember, is learnt only at lv. 31, until which it will only be dealing decent damage because the trainers in this game use underlevelled Pokemon (which is as much of a pro as it is a con - you will be underlevelled for the gyms in return).

Once Quilava evolves, it gets access to both Thunderpunch and Fire Punch, but is it worth the time spent grinding it so that it doesn't lag behind the party for a long period of time? Other options include Iron Tail, Earthquake, and Return (which probably doesn't need to be mentioned every time). Not too impressive, but this is the second generation after all.

Also worth noting is Typhlosion's access to Fire Blast via the casino. Great power, but only 5 PP without any PP ups, not too mention it's a serious investment of your money that could go into buying Full Heals and Restores for the Elite Four. It is also likely to miss, but can be considered over Fire Punch for endgame when you can afford spending your money for the casino credits.

Rating: 7.5/10

Edited January 1, 2013 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Totodile

Like the other starters, Totodile has top availability, not to mention good balanced stats. He gets more than the other two in physical attack, which might seem unnecessary as he has no physical STAB; however, that makes him more versatile, as he can eventually both hit things with a powerful STAB Surf, and deal respectable damage with moves like Headbutt, Return, Earthquake and Iron Tail.

Early on, Totodile isn't so strong, as he has to wait until lv. 13 to learn Water Gun. Even so, he's noticeably bulky at this point, and deals around the same damage with Scratch anyway. He should learn Water Gun around the time the party enters Union Cave, with its unavoidable Hiker battles against Geodudes and Onixes.

The point when Totodile (probably Croconaw by that point) becomes really good is after Whitney. Beating all the eeveelutions for the Surf HM is a piece of cake, not to mention compulsory to advance the story to challenge Chuck and Jasmine. Getting Surf right before Morty is rare luck for this game, because the designers of the game gave less offensive choices than in the previous generations. In RBY, you could get an early Thunderbolt by beating Surge, early Ice Beam by arriving at Celadon, etc. Only fire-types were forced to wait too long for some reason. In contrast, in GSC the elemental punches are paradoxically often the best way of dealing damage. Perhaps it's to compensate for the relatively low levels of the Elite Four this time around? Whatever the reason behind hiding all the best moves until endgame may be, this makes the approach to the game a bit different, and Surf makes water-types more valuable than any other typing.

I've already mentioned what physical moves Feraligatr may benefit from, but another move worthy of mentioning is Ice Punch, a relatively cheap TM you can purchase in Goldenrod. It allows Feraligatr to hit grass-types effectively, and makes it a great counter to Clair's and Lance's dragons, with its excellent durability and a super-effective (for Dragonites, 4x effective) attack to strike back with.

Besides Clair, there are no other gyms where Totodile will be self-sufficient (and even against Clair, it probably won't want to face the Thunderbolt Dragonair). Perhaps Jasmine and Pryce are good matchups for Totodile. If Totodile gets Dig, it can deal with the Magnemites, and hit Steelix really hard with Surf. Depending on the level, Steelix is likely to withstand the attack, use Sunny Day on the first turn, and then get his health back with Hyper Potion on the next turn. This makes him more difficult to kill, but since he doesn't threaten with anything either, it's only a matter of time. Pryce's Pokemon have nothing to hit Feraligatr with, and Piloswine goes down to him easily. Therefore Totodile is a starter that begins to shine around midgame and shows its true potential when challenging the last gyms and the Elite Four.

Totodile faces stiff competition from other numerous water-types in this game (who can now evolve easily with the help of a Water Stone in this version), but he beats them all in availability, even if he loses from other perspectives (like speed and special attack, or coverage).

Rating: 9/10

Edited August 31, 2011 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Pidgey

Probably the first bird you'll encounter in the game, unless you started your run at night. In that case, you will encounter Hoothoot instead. Pidgey has become a more efficient choice in the second generation, as its Gust attack (learned at lv. 9) is now flying-type, allowing it to hit plenty of earlygame Pokemon effectively.

If compared to other birds, namely Spearow, Pidgey takes way longer to fully evolve and even as Pidgeot, its offensive capabilities are underwhelming. Wing Attack at lv. 33 is nice - it will probably be taught Fly before that however, rendering Wing Attack useless, unless you know it will KO and want to make sure your attack hits.

Being flying-type makes Pidgey (this also applies to every other bird in the game) a good choice for facing Bugsy (Scyther will be forced to resort to Quick Attack and will fall to Gust quickly), can hit Chuck's Pokemon super-effectively (but doesn't have the best typing to face Chuck's Poliwrath who might have the upper hand in a duel between him and Pidgeotto - depends on the level). In the elite four, Pidgeot is a decent choice against Koga's dual bug/poison Pokemon, Vileplume, and Bruno's fighters. Using Fly against Hitmontop is a very bad idea though, as it has Detect.

Also worth noting is how useful the Normal/Flying typing is for Morty. As long as you switch when Curse is used and use Awakenings when put to sleep, none of his Pokemon can even touch Pidgeotto. Immunity to Shadow Ball and the ability to hit back with flying-type attacks (though weak ones, to be sure) can be seen as valuable.

I would argue that training a Pidgey is inefficient in the long run, as it just doesn't pay off, requiring a lot of effort and resulting in a mediocre Pokemon with a mediocre learnset in the end. I would maybe only use him until Bugsy or so, maybe a bit more, and then just use him to Fly to places.

Rating: 6.5/10

Edited October 19, 2012 by Espinosa

[HongLei]

I think Geodude should be mentioned, I think you can get him at that one Northern dead end Route at the beginning.

He is tough, resists the first 3 gyms. Plus is a great Pokemon learning stab rock throw and magnitude at levels 11 and 15, if you have a friend he gets Golem at lv 25.

I think he deserves an 8-10.

Sorry I am not writing a huge rant of his glory, but I believe in keeping things simple and to the point.

Edited July 30, 2011 by HongLei

[samthedigital]

Totodile faces stiff competition from other numerous water-types in this game

Totodile doesn't face competition from them because Totodile gets free training when it's used. To match Totodile other Pokemon would have to be trained which is largely inefficient. Base stats aren't as important as availability, moves, and level advantages. Totodile also has an amazing start because of Rage. It only needs the forced experience to beat everything without risk of dying. I feel that Totodile should get a better rating than 8 because no other Pokemon in this game are actually better than Totodile. Totodile can't OHKO everything from base without any training at all while also being the first Pokemon you get (which would be optimal, Totodile still fits the last criteria), but it still is the best there is.

The rating assumes the player doesn't exploit glitches, that she trains multiple Pokemon for the run and doesn't grind excessively for the elite battles (hence efficiency). It is supposed that the game "ends" at the first credits seen after beating Lance for the first time (so the Kanto part of the game is postgame and not counted in the analysis).

I also disagree with how the ratings are based on. I don't care about glitches being banned in this game as a lot of them are based on data corruption, and there isn't so much to exploit as in RBY. I still don't get that more than one Pokemon has to be used though. It is largely inefficient to use more than one Pokemon, and Crystal is a very different game than the first generation of games. There are a lot of great Pokemon that don't really need much training in the first generation, but there are a lot less of them in Crystal. Training more Pokemon also mitigates the usefulness of a single Pokemon. A Pokemon can't kill everything, so it doesn't need to be effective against everything which goes against what makes a Pokemon effective in the first place.

[Rewjeo]

I tend to use a party of six in pokemon, myself. That never works well in the end, though. I beat Clair the last time I played Gold without a single pokemon above level 30 (give or take one or two levels) and then I got to the Elite Four, and, well, that didn't go so well.

[Smiley Jim]

I myself used a team of three main dudes in my Crystal run(Typhlosion, Golem, and Slowbro), who could mostly hold their own by the time I got my ass over to the E4. The rest of my team slots were used on HM slaves because I did not want to put useless HM moves on my main force(I had Surf on Slowbro, but that was about it.)

[HongLei]

I dunno this is my team of 6:

Typhlosion

Poliwrath

Golem

Gengar

Amphoros

Crobat

Mostly all just Pokemon I like

[samthedigital]

If anyone's interested I created a Pokemon RBY tier list.

Top

Nidoking (Y)
Blastoise (RB)
Charizard (RB)
Nidoqueen (Y)
Nidoqueen (RB)*1
Nidoking (RB)*2
Zapdos

Utility*3


Pidgey/Spearow
Charmander (Y)
Oddish/Bellsprout (RB)
Lapras


High

Dugtrio
Clefable
Venusaur (RB)
Raticate
Primeape (Y)
Charizard (Y)
Kadabra (RB)
Lapras
Snorlax
Articuno
Persian
Kadabra (Y)


Upper Mid

Fearow
Blastoise (Y)
Haunter
Jynx (RB)
Tauros
Gyarados
Starmie
Dodrio
Exeggutor
Cloyster
Vaporeon
Tentacruel
Kangaskhan


Lower Mid

Butterfree (Y)
Mr. Mime
Pikachu (RB)
Pikachu (Y)
Victreebel
Venusaur (Y)
Machamp (Y)
Sandslash
Omastar
Chansey


Low

Primeape (RB)
Machoke (RB)
Kabutops
Muk
Golduck
Poliwrath
Rhydon
Slowbro
Arcanine
Ninetails
Magneton
Graveler
Electabuzz
Wigglytuff
Dewgong
Jolteon
Weezing
Farfetch'd (RB)
Moltres
Electrode
Flareon
Dragonite
Parasect


Bottom

Hitmonlee
Pidgeot
Beedrill
Venomoth
Onix
Hitmonchan
Aerodactyl
Arbok
Farfetch'd (Y)
Porygon
Seaking
Seadra
Tangela
Lickitung
Rapidash
Golbat
Ditto




*1+*2: Traded Nidoking and traded Nidoqueen are quite effective because of the growth rate, but people haven't really experimented with this fully. I am not sure exactly where they should go.
*3   : Pokemon in the utility tier are positive or near positive utility. Pokemon below that are strictly negative utility. Some Pokemon (Zapdos is a good example) are negative utility and are above it, but I feel that going strictly by the positive/negative utility tier would be more complicated than it is worth. I haven't considered the trainer/escape glitch, but I might do it eventually. For the Pokemon below Utility it is assumed that they are used exclusively as it is the best way to rank them in my opinion.

I might have made some mistakes, but I feel that as a rough draft it is quite accurate.

Edited August 1, 2011 by samthedigital

[Espinosa]

I think Geodude should be mentioned, I think you can get him at that one Northern dead end Route at the beginning.

He is tough, resists the first 3 gyms. Plus is a great Pokemon learning stab rock throw and magnitude at levels 11 and 15, if you have a friend he gets Golem at lv 25.

I think he deserves an 8-10.

Sorry I am not writing a huge rant of his glory, but I believe in keeping things simple and to the point.

I should get to Geodude soon, and yes, he does deserve a high rating, even if he never evolves into Golem. I'll think what rating to give him when it's his turn.

Totodile doesn't face competition from them because Totodile gets free training when it's used. To match Totodile other Pokemon would have to be trained which is largely inefficient. Base stats aren't as important as availability, moves, and level advantages. Totodile also has an amazing start because of Rage. It only needs the forced experience to beat everything without risk of dying. I feel that Totodile should get a better rating than 8 because no other Pokemon in this game are actually better than Totodile. Totodile can't OHKO everything from base without any training at all while also being the first Pokemon you get (which would be optimal, Totodile still fits the last criteria), but it still is the best there is.

I don't think there's any such thing as "free training" after you get your first 5 Pokeballs, since you're training whatever it is you're sending out. If you're sending out Totodile and not Geodude, you're precisely "training" Totodile, and I don't see why this wording would be inappropriate. Even before you get the Pokeballs, the game doesn't demand that you train your starter and after beating your rival, you might as well drop your starter if you don't plan to use it. Sure, there will be a difference of couple levels, but it is miniscule and it is more efficient to give one of the early route Pokemon 2-3 levels than it is to drag Chikorita along for the whole playthrough, while she is lagging behind in levels and general usefulness.

This isn't the case with Totodile, who I do also see as the most efficient starter to choose, but I think availability (where the starters reign supreme, obviously) is the most decisive factor.

A couple of days ago, having read your defence of this Pokemon, I started a run with Totodile as my starter, making use of Rage and saw how it trivialised the first three gyms, much like you said. He didn't fare nearly as well against Chuck however, contrary to my expectations (killed Primeape in 3 Rages but facing Poliwrath was very rough). I'm going to see how effective a combination like Rage + Earthquake + Ice Punch + Return (Ice Punch for dragons, the other two moves to benefit from Rage's attack boosts). I'll probably lift the rating up to 9, maybe 9.5, going to need to see how I rank the rest of the available water Pokemon first. I almost forgot how much Rage was improved compared to how it worked in Gen 1.

It's hardly the only water-type with such a great early availability, though. Other examples are Wooper, Poliwag, and a little later Slowpoke, Tentacruel and Magikarp, each of which has strong and weak points of its own.

I also disagree with how the ratings are based on. I don't care about glitches being banned in this game as a lot of them are based on data corruption, and there isn't so much to exploit as in RBY. I still don't get that more than one Pokemon has to be used though. It is largely inefficient to use more than one Pokemon, and Crystal is a very different game than the first generation of games. There are a lot of great Pokemon that don't really need much training in the first generation, but there are a lot less of them in Crystal. Training more Pokemon also mitigates the usefulness of a single Pokemon. A Pokemon can't kill everything, so it doesn't need to be effective against everything which goes against what makes a Pokemon effective in the first place.

I agree with you that the levels of Pokemon caught in the wild are far from satisfactory in this generation; however, in spite of this shortcoming, the contributions of those low-levelled Pokemon shouldn't be entirely disregarded. Keep one in your party for two areas where you're using it extensively to fight trainers, and it'll catch up with the rest of the party and fare well in gym battles. Such storyline sequences like the rocket hideouts in Mahogany and Goldenrod are tedious if you decide to sweep them with just one Pokemon, and are almost meant to allow you to train up whatever low-levelled Pokemon you've got. A low level is a disadvantage, but not a fatal one at all. Non-rocket trainers also use lower-levelled Pokemon (in comparison to, say, gym leaders and elites), but give good experience, which is intentionally set up to make training easier.

As for assuming only one Pokemon is trained... Firstly, that eliminates the specific aspects of the Pokemon. If a Pokemon is overlevelled, it will survive whatever it is hit by, and its attacks will tear everything apart, but not due to its typing, learnset anymore, but only because you opted to use that Pokemon and nothing else. While this is a valid approach, it pushes the more useful Pokemon up in rating and the weaker down - let's say, there's not much Chikorita can do against Rival's Gastly and Zubat in Azalea unless you overlevel tremendously. In contrast to that, Totodile is more than fine to deal with things all on its lonesome, hoping on Bite to flinch that Bayleef repeatedly, and then relying on Ice Punch and Dig/Earthquake for covering the Pokemon that otherwise have an advantage against it. If we don't assume that a Pokemon we're rating isn't forced to enter every single forced battle, the ratings are more moderate. I do hope I try to stress how many of the challenging gyms a specific Pokemon covers with ease without the need for over-levelling though.

On topic of your RBY tiers, would you mind making a separate topic for it? I'm interested in arguing about it and there are some aspects I immediately want to doubt, but this would divert us from the second generation discussion. It looks well-thought out.

[samthedigital]

ree with you that the levels of Pokemon caught in the wild are far from satisfactory in this generation; however, in spite of this shortcoming, the contributions of those low-levelled Pokemon shouldn't be entirely disregarded. Keep one in your party for two areas where you're using it extensively to fight trainers, and it'll catch up with the rest of the party and fare well in gym battles. Such storyline sequences like the rocket hideouts in Mahogany and Goldenrod are tedious if you decide to sweep them with just one Pokemon, and are almost meant to allow you to train up whatever low-levelled Pokemon you've got. A low level is a disadvantage, but not a fatal one at all. Non-rocket trainers also use lower-levelled Pokemon (in comparison to, say, gym leaders and elites), but give good experience, which is intentionally set up to make training easier.

Using one Pokemon isn't tedious. Any PP problems are mitigated by the Pokecenter and smart use of move choices. Ignoring trainers altogether works too. The developers might have tried to make training more Pokemon more effective than not, but it didn't really work out that way. By using more Pokemon the player effectively has to split the most important resource in half even if only two Pokemon are trained. It's just not efficient, and I don't see how it is interesting to create a tier list this way either.

If a Pokemon is overlevelled, it will survive whatever it is hit by, and its attacks will tear everything apart, but not due to its typing, learnset anymore, but only because you opted to use that Pokemon and nothing else. While this is a valid approach, it pushes the more useful Pokemon up in rating and the weaker down - let's say, there's not much Chikorita can do against Rival's Gastly and Zubat in Azalea unless you overlevel tremendously.

I think you provided a good counterexample to your first sentence by yourself. It doesn't matter how much Chikorita is actually trained. It's going to be the same in both kinds of tier lists. A lot of Pokemon do stay the same; it's just that it's more effective to rate Pokemon. If there is a full team to back up a certain Pokemon's shortcomings they won't matter, so it is effectively the same as other Pokemon. It creates a lot of imbalances where it would be otherwise more simple to see the differences between two unique Pokemon. In Chikorita's example, it has PP problems because it doesn't have a lot of effective moves, and it can't take a lot of Pokemon too because of that. Even when it's the only Pokemon in use it runs into that problem. It's not like Meganium is going to be at level 100 OHKOing everything by the end of the game.

I do hope I try to stress how many of the challenging gyms a specific Pokemon covers with ease without the need for over-levelling though.

Ease and efficiency are different things. I know many examples in RBY where a low leveled Pokemon could take on a high leveled trainer Pokemon, but it's still not that efficient to do so because the Pokemon are often slower and take many more hits to beat the trainers. It's likely similar in this game.

A couple of days ago, having read your defence of this Pokemon, I started a run with Totodile as my starter, making use of Rage and saw how it trivialised the first three gyms, much like you said. He didn't fare nearly as well against Chuck however, contrary to my expectations (killed Primeape in 3 Rages but facing Poliwrath was very rough).

Ditch Rage after a while in favor of Headbutt.

It's hardly the only water-type with such a great early availability, though. Other examples are Wooper, Poliwag, and a little later Slowpoke, Tentacruel and Magikarp, each of which has strong and weak points of its own.

Every single one of those Pokemon has shortcomings compared to Totodile. I mentioned that when used Totodile gets free training. This is because to rate a Pokemon they have to be used. Totodile is therefore better than any of the other Water types based on that logic. Most of those Pokemon have glaring problems though. Slowpoke is going to be slower than the opposing Pokemon most of the time and evolves late, Magicarp takes time to train to be effective, and Tentacool has a horrible movepool. That leaves Poliwag and Wooper. Both can be as good as Totodile after a certain point, but Totodile will have the level advantage and has a full 3 gyms of overwhelming advantages because of Rage. It should also be noted that Feraligatr hits harder with every move except Earthquake because of the better base stats. Tentacool and Slowpoke have other disadvantages, but I don't think that I need to mention them.

On topic of your RBY tiers, would you mind making a separate topic for it? I'm interested in arguing about it and there are some aspects I immediately want to doubt, but this would divert us from the second generation discussion. It looks well-thought out.

I would create another topic, but Pokemon tiers really don't really create a lot of interest, and at best only one more person would really want to talk about RBY. I also don't want to mix things from both games in this topic though.

Edited August 5, 2011 by samthedigital

[Darros]

You should make a rating list in the OP so we don't have to run around the topic looking for a certain rating.

[Espinosa]

I think you provided a good counterexample to your first sentence by yourself. It doesn't matter how much Chikorita is actually trained. It's going to be the same in both kinds of tier lists. A lot of Pokemon do stay the same; it's just that it's more effective to rate Pokemon. If there is a full team to back up a certain Pokemon's shortcomings they won't matter, so it is effectively the same as other Pokemon. It creates a lot of imbalances where it would be otherwise more simple to see the differences between two unique Pokemon. In Chikorita's example, it has PP problems because it doesn't have a lot of effective moves, and it can't take a lot of Pokemon too because of that. Even when it's the only Pokemon in use it runs into that problem. It's not like Meganium is going to be at level 100 OHKOing everything by the end of the game.

What I said is that the assumption that we're soloing the game with one Pokemon leads to ratings being extremely polarised. While Totodile or another bulky water-type would go up in efficiency (with electric attacks mainly used by Rival's Magnemite, and some endgame dragons, as well as grass-type attacks not being too threatening, it's a great typing, and Surf is an excellent STAB tool that other types don't get in this generation), a Pokemon like Chikorita would go down to 2/10 or 3/10, because its offensive capabilities are lacking, and there is a substantial amount of Pokemon it has trouble touching.

However, I still maintain the view that we should assume Pokemon aren't soloing the game and aren't overlevelled, so as not to overshadow the importance of learnset, stats and typing in weighing all the possible factors that could affect a Pokemon's efficiency. The game has so many Pokemon you could possible try out, if not on the current playthrough then on the next one, that I think polarising the efficiency list around one single Pokemon only simplifies the game, turning it into a Totodile solo speedrun with HM slaves and Pokemon for E4 to attack while you're reviving Feraligatr, and maybe a legendary. Not to say it's an inefficient way of playing the game, quite the opposite, but there are others.

For example, as we agree that opting for Totodile as a starter is the efficient choice, does that diminish the efficiency of other starters? Choosing Cyndaquil will mean you will have to rely on something else for Whitney, maybe Geodude or Machop, and that you'll probably be training an inefficient water-type because of it (or a non-water type; I've always been found of Nidoking with Surf, personally). Should Cyndaquil's rating drop to 4/10, then? And Chikorita, if assessed from those positions, will be a fetish Pokemon requiring significant amounts of babying and will get a 2 out of 10. As you can see, this is not the same perspective from which I went with the ratings I did.

Ease and efficiency are different things. I know many examples in RBY where a low leveled Pokemon could take on a high leveled trainer Pokemon, but it's still not that efficient to do so because the Pokemon are often slower and take many more hits to beat the trainers. It's likely similar in this game.

Are you saying we should contrast ease and efficiency? I would just say that ease, or convenience, which I find to be a preferable term, is something inherently incorporated in the term 'efficiency', at least partly. It is not, of course, efficient to grind the right Pokemon to lv. 60 for the Elite Four, even if it is convenient (as in, little risk of dying). However, the opposite extremity is equally absurd, I would argue - imagine relying on one-hit KO moves like Horn Drill to get out of a difficult battle. While it could be the fastest way to Horn Drill your targets out of the way, the number of resets necessary to get them to connect would cost a lot more time and pressure than if you went with choices that were both convenient and immediate in their power.

So if I were to sum up what efficiency is in a casual Pokemon run, I would say it includes both convenience of a specific Pokemon's usage, and usefulness in the game's numerous challenging situations, in addition to the other factors previously outlined in my ratings.

Ditch Rage after a while in favor of Headbutt.

I have both at the moment (plus Surf and Ice Punch; I really want Dig though). I'm against using X items, so Rage is pretty much the only way Feraligatr can buff himself up during the crucial battles.

Every single one of those Pokemon has shortcomings compared to Totodile. I mentioned that when used Totodile gets free training. This is because to rate a Pokemon they have to be used. Totodile is therefore better than any of the other Water types based on that logic. Most of those Pokemon have glaring problems though. Slowpoke is going to be slower than the opposing Pokemon most of the time and evolves late, Magicarp takes time to train to be effective, and Tentacool has a horrible movepool. That leaves Poliwag and Wooper. Both can be as good as Totodile after a certain point, but Totodile will have the level advantage and has a full 3 gyms of overwhelming advantages because of Rage. It should also be noted that Feraligatr hits harder with every move except Earthquake because of the better base stats. Tentacool and Slowpoke have other disadvantages, but I don't think that I need to mention them.

They have benefits as well as shortcomings, I would say, and while Totodile beats them in many ways, they have something to add to the table, too. Let's not forget we can catch water-types like Starmie a little later into the game. While Feraligatr is significantly faster than Slowbro, he will still not be winning every battle in terms of speed by endgame, and that's where Starmie would prove more effective in spite of the effort necessary to raise it.

I would create another topic, but Pokemon tiers really don't really create a lot of interest, and at best only one more person would really want to talk about RBY. I also don't want to mix things from both games in this topic though.

Well, this might be the sole place to have a discussion like that. I don't think gamefaqs or Smogon would be interested in one (Smogon does have finished tier lists, but even mentioning them on the forums is frowned upon, they're considered 'complete' from what I've read). I don't think anything would be lost from a new topic on it, and you just need to copy and paste your list for it to take off, anyway.

You should make a rating list in the OP so we don't have to run around the topic looking for a certain rating.

That's a really good idea, thanks! I'm going to see if I can link to individual posts in the opening post, too, so that people could find an explanation of my rating when they're interested in a particular Pokemon.

I'm going to also take HongLei's advice, and shorten my further reviews to ensure greater readability.

[-Cynthia-]

I actually like the current detail of the analyses, but whatever floats your boat.

With regards to Totodile, I think Wooper makes good competition. Wooper's obtainabble right after the right first gym and has some noticeable advantages over Totodile, namely eventually being strong rather than weak against Electric types. STAB Earthquake without a TM is also a really nice bonus, even without the extra poison/electric crushing capabilities it makes for a more solid option against enemies like Clair's Kingdra than anything Feraligatr can dish out. Of course Quagsire is extra weak to grass and very slow, so there are advantages to both really.

[Venusaur]

I didn't know I'd have any impact at all when I started my Yellow Ratings! I should probably update it soon... I don't think I did a great job setting up the core rules... So far, I think the amount of detail on the analysi are perfect, so don't change that, and I'd definitely like to see more. I honestly can't think of anything to argue.

[samthedigital]

Pokemon like Chikorita would go down to 2/10 or 3/10, because its offensive capabilities are lacking, and there is a substantial amount of Pokemon it has trouble touching.

Chikorita is still a 5 or a 6. Compare Ditto to Chikorita. Ditto is one of the worst Pokemon, so it should get a 1. Chikorita can still perform, just not as quickly as a Pokemon that would be rated an 8 or a 9.

For example, as we agree that opting for Totodile as a starter is the efficient choice, does that diminish the efficiency of other starters? Choosing Cyndaquil will mean you will have to rely on something else for Whitney, maybe Geodude or Machop, and that you'll probably be training an inefficient water-type because of it (or a non-water type; I've always been found of Nidoking with Surf, personally). Should Cyndaquil's rating drop to 4/10, then? And Chikorita, if assessed from those positions, will be a fetish Pokemon requiring significant amounts of babying and will get a 2 out of 10. As you can see, this is not the same perspective from which I went with the ratings I did.

The standard assumption is that a Pokemon is used and no negatives can be attributed to them for being used versus a better Pokemon, so Cyntaquil's rating wouldn't drop. If we were rating purely on absolute efficiency Cyntaquil would get a 0 since it would never be chosen.

Are you saying we should contrast ease and efficiency?

No, I am saying that ease has nothing to do with a tier list. I wouldn't use 'easy' to describe a strategy. I would describe it as efficient or inefficient, but ease never comes into the picture.

I have both at the moment (plus Surf and Ice Punch; I really want Dig though). I'm against using X items, so Rage is pretty much the only way Feraligatr can buff himself up during the crucial battles.

Headbutt has 80 base power and the chance of flinching. I don't think your dislike of X-Items should affect your ratings though. They are are a part of the game just like anything else. Banning them would be a lot like banning stat boosting items in Fire Emblem. It doesn't really make any sense too.

They have benefits as well as shortcomings, I would say, and while Totodile beats them in many ways, they have something to add to the table, too. Let's not forget we can catch water-types like Starmie a little later into the game. While Feraligatr is significantly faster than Slowbro, he will still not be winning every battle in terms of speed by endgame, and that's where Starmie would prove more effective in spite of the effort necessary to raise it.

What do they have that Totodlile doesn't? If anything, it's not very much. Starmie has to be trained to have higher speed than Feraligatr, and you will probably find that it doesn't make much of a difference either way.

With regards to Totodile, I think Wooper makes good competition. Wooper's obtainabble right after the right first gym and has some noticeable advantages over Totodile, namely eventually being strong rather than weak against Electric types. STAB Earthquake without a TM is also a really nice bonus, even without the extra poison/electric crushing capabilities it makes for a more solid option against enemies like Clair's Kingdra than anything Feraligatr can dish out. Of course Quagsire is extra weak to grass and very slow, so there are advantages to both really.

When do the advantages that Wooper gets help him? Quagsire gets Earthquake at level 35, but that takes a while to get to get to. Not being affected by electric attacks doesn't help because Electric Pokemon aren't abundant, and the ones that are there aren't a threat to Feraligatr even with its typing. Feraligatr also doesn't have a problem offensively. On paper you might say that STAB Earthquake and 0x versus electric attacks are an advantage, but in practice they don't really change very much.

Edited August 5, 2011 by samthedigital

[Espinosa]

How shall I put it, it's not the amount of facts I'm going to cut, but rather the wordiness of my analyses, and the general clumsiness that seems to accompany my idiolect. Making those reviews more readable, that's all. Thanks for the feedback, all!

Chikorita is still a 5 or a 6. Compare Ditto to Chikorita. Ditto is one of the worst Pokemon, so it should get a 1. Chikorita can still perform, just not as quickly as a Pokemon that would be rated an 8 or a 9.

I'd say there are worse Pokemon than Ditto out there... Transform copies the stats of whoever it is you're out against. Put Gengar/Kingdra/Dragonite to sleep, switch your Ditto in, and then punish them with their own Shadow Ball/Dragonbreath/Outrage. It's unreliable, yes, but far more effective than the garbage that is, say, Togepi or Ledyba.

The standard assumption is that a Pokemon is used and no negatives can be attributed to them for being used versus a better Pokemon, so Cyntaquil's rating wouldn't drop. If we were rating purely on absolute efficiency Cyntaquil would get a 0 since it would never be chosen.

Essentially what I was trying to say, we should scrutinise each instance.

No, I am saying that ease has nothing to do with a tier list. I wouldn't use 'easy' to describe a strategy. I would describe it as efficient or inefficient, but ease never comes into the picture.

Out of curiosity, which factors do you see affecting the efficiency of a Pokemon then? Personally for me, the number of situations having a specific Pokemon in the party facilitates is very directly connected to its efficiency.

Headbutt has 80 base power and the chance of flinching. I don't think your dislike of X-Items should affect your ratings though. They are are a part of the game just like anything else. Banning them would be a lot like banning stat boosting items in Fire Emblem. It doesn't really make any sense too.

70 base power, so you have to decide between the 30% chance to flinch or 10 extra power of Strength, or even go for Return if it's the right day of the week. Rage, if you're lucky with being hit (and hit by something that's not too threatening), is pretty much half of a Swords Dance boost. X Attack is more reliable, but what I don't like about taking these items into consideration is that every Pokemon has them at their disposal, and you can so easily abuse them to the point it won't matter what you're using. Put something to sleep or screw it over in another way, then feed yourself 1 or 2 X-Speeds and 6 X-Attacks/Specials, and then just destroy everything in one hit. When we're talking about moves and whatnot, we're actually discussing inherent strengths of specific Pokemon.

What do they have that Totodlile doesn't? If anything, it's not very much. Starmie has to be trained to have higher speed than Feraligatr, and you will probably find that it doesn't make much of a difference either way.

Feraligatr needs training to become a Feraligatr too, you know.

Starmie has more speed and more special attack, and there are plenty of situations where the fewer hits you can take, the more likely you are to win, in the Elite Four especially. Its Psychic typing also makes it perfect to face Will and Bruno of the Elite Four, plus it'll probably be outspeeding Lance's Dragonites. It also gets Confuse Ray, and is one of the few Pokemon to effectively make use of the Rain Dance/Surf/Thunder combo.

When do the advantages that Wooper gets help him? Quagsire gets Earthquake at level 35, but that takes a while to get to get to. Not being affected by electric attacks doesn't help because Electric Pokemon aren't abundant, and the ones that are there aren't a threat to Feraligatr even with its typing. Feraligatr also doesn't have a problem offensively. On paper you might say that STAB Earthquake and 0x versus electric attacks are an advantage, but in practice they don't really change very much.

Earthquake at lv. 35 is far better if you compare it to the levels some other Pokemon learn it at. Graveler - 41, Rhydon - 65, Donphan - 49... See what I mean? Even those who learn it naturally will more likely than not learn it via the Victory Road TM (which is the very endgame). And before Earthquake, it gets Mud-Slap and Dig, which probably not many other Pokemon contest.

Aside from the early Earthquake, Quagsire also learns Sludge Bomb via TM (I usually have no Pokemon to give this to, so I guess he has close to complete monopoly on this one), and he resists rock-type and poison-type attacks in addition to the electric immunity. Its stats are inferior to Feraligatr, besides HP, but I think it's a solid replacement if you didn't choose Totodile as a starter, plus a very nice pick if you want a ground type, with its unique typing.

[samthedigital]

I'd say there are worse Pokemon than Ditto out there... Transform copies the stats of whoever it is you're out against. Put Gengar/Kingdra/Dragonite to sleep, switch your Ditto in, and then punish them with their own Shadow Ball/Dragonbreath/Outrage. It's unreliable, yes, but far more effective than the garbage that is, say, Togepi or Ledyba.

That doesn't really detract from my point though. Ditto also has to keep its own HP, and it still needs that many turns to set up. At least Ledyba can attack without having to set up. In any case, it does show that Chikorita would never have a low score like 1 or 2.

Out of curiosity, which factors do you see affecting the efficiency of a Pokemon then? Personally for me, the number of situations having a specific Pokemon in the party facilitates is very directly connected to its efficiency.

What I am saying is that there isn't a direct correlation with ease and efficiency. A Pokemon could have a reliable, quick strategy, but it also doesn't have to be easy to do. I am pretty sure our views on efficiency are the same.

70 base power, so you have to decide between the 30% chance to flinch or 10 extra power of Strength, or even go for Return if it's the right day of the week. Rage, if you're lucky with being hit (and hit by something that's not too threatening), is pretty much half of a Swords Dance boost. X Attack is more reliable, but what I don't like about taking these items into consideration is that every Pokemon has them at their disposal, and you can so easily abuse them to the point it won't matter what you're using. Put something to sleep or screw it over in another way, then feed yourself 1 or 2 X-Speeds and 6 X-Attacks/Specials, and then just destroy everything in one hit. When we're talking about moves and whatnot, we're actually discussing inherent strengths of specific Pokemon.

Feraligatr doesn't have the best base power with return at that point, and Headbutt's chance to flinch makes it more advantageous than the other two moves. A flinch saves around 3 seconds or so per flinch without anything else factored in.

Anyway, X-Items aren't completely overpowered. A Pokemon has to be trained to use them effectively, there isn't an infinite amount of cash in the game, and the more X-Items the Pokemon has to use the less effective the Pokemon is.

Feraligatr needs training to become a Feraligatr too, you know.

Totodile is different from Starmie in that Totodile is useful while it is being trained. Not many other Pokemon can make that claim.

Starmie has more speed and more special attack, and there are plenty of situations where the fewer hits you can take, the more likely you are to win, in the Elite Four especially. Its Psychic typing also makes it perfect to face Will and Bruno of the Elite Four, plus it'll probably be outspeeding Lance's Dragonites. It also gets Confuse Ray, and is one of the few Pokemon to effectively make use of the Rain Dance/Surf/Thunder combo.

Confuse Ray is worthless because other attacks are going to ko more quickly. The Rain Dance and Thunder combo takes time to set up. It's a lot like using an X-Item, so it's not really much of an advantage. Feraligatr can fight the Elite 4 just about as effectively as Starmie can. Feraligatr needs some X-Special for some things, but against Lance for example it is faster than everything else and OHKOs everything except for Gyarados who gets 2HKOd,

Earthquake at lv. 35 is far better if you compare it to the levels some other Pokemon learn it at. Graveler - 41, Rhydon - 65, Donphan - 49... See what I mean? Even those who learn it naturally will more likely than not learn it via the Victory Road TM (which is the very endgame). And before Earthquake, it gets Mud-Slap and Dig, which probably not many other Pokemon contest.

It's better compared to other Pokemon, but that doesn't make it good. If we are going by your rules Pokemon are going to barely be more than level 40 before getting to the Elite 4. Quagsire's Earthquake is also unsurprisingly not amazingly desirable. It's great, sure, but it doesn't hit everything for Super Effective, and Feraligatr doesn't even need Earthquake to take on the Elite 4 effectively.

Aside from the early Earthquake, Quagsire also learns Sludge Bomb via TM (I usually have no Pokemon to give this to, so I guess he has close to complete monopoly on this one), and he resists rock-type and poison-type attacks in addition to the electric immunity. Its stats are inferior to Feraligatr, besides HP, but I think it's a solid replacement if you didn't choose Totodile as a starter, plus a very nice pick if you want a ground type, with its unique typing.

Resisting Rock and Poison type attacks isn't important at all. Besides, I am not saying that Quagsire is bad, but that it has no good advantages over Feraligatr. My claim was that Feraligatr is the best Pokemon under the given circumstances pound for pound, and it has never been anything else.

[Psych]

I actually like the current detail of the analyses, but whatever floats your boat.

With regards to Totodile, I think Wooper makes good competition. Wooper's obtainabble right after the right first gym and has some noticeable advantages over Totodile, namely eventually being strong rather than weak against Electric types. STAB Earthquake without a TM is also a really nice bonus, even without the extra poison/electric crushing capabilities it makes for a more solid option against enemies like Clair's Kingdra than anything Feraligatr can dish out. Of course Quagsire is extra weak to grass and very slow, so there are advantages to both really.

Because this is Crystal, not only do we get a Water Stone, but we can also get Poliwag before the first gym if you hang out on 30 during the night. The fighting type may come in handy, and I'm not sure why but you also have Politoad if you want it for Perish Song or something. Electric and Grass don't really come into play until after the E4 since only a few trainers actually have those types.

[Espinosa]

Rattata

Carried over to us from the first generation, Rattata could be the first pure normal-type Pokemon you will encounter on your journey, if you travel at night. Otherwise it will be Sentret. Regardless, Rattata has some of the best availability and is as easy to catch as it gets. Even if you start your game in the morning or during the day, it's easy to find a Rattata on Route 46 or in the Sprout Tower.

Rattata is one of the best Pokemon to train early on in the game, because while it doesn't have any super-effective attacks until you teach it some TMs, it gets Quick Attack at lv. 7 (not that it isn't outspeeding everything without it already) and, more importantly, Hyper Fang at lv. 13. At 80 base attack and with STAB, this makes Rattata a monster. It evolves into Ratticate early on at lv. 20, becoming even better at what it does.

After such a spectacular start, Raticate's usefulness slowly fades. The move it learnt at lv. 13 as a Rattata might well end up its best even at the end of the game, unless you teach it Return, and its defences will leave it vulnerable to any decent attack coming its way. While Hyper Fang does remain solid for the entirety of the game, other normal-type Pokemon with inferior availability and levels, like Tauros and Miltank, get superior moves like Body Slam, and have all-around better stats, making them better choices as far as training a normal-type goes.

Still, Rattata's earlygame contribution isn't to be underestimated.

Some of its useful TM choices include Dig, Shadow Ball, perhaps Iron Tail. Super Fang, learnt at lv. 40, is useful for hitting Pokemon whom you can't overpower in 2 hits or less. Useful for the more challenging Pokemon used by gym leaders and elites, for example Kingdra whom it's often difficult to hurt and overpower. Strength (HM) can be considered over Hyper Fang due to being 100% accurate. Nothing can be as annoying as seeing a 90% accurate move miss twice in a row.

Rating: 7/10

Edited October 19, 2012 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Sentret

Assuming you don't start your playthrough of the game at night, it is Sentret, and not Rattata, who will be the first Normal-type Pokemon you meet on your journey. Many players discard Sentret as a poor clone of Rattata in terms of its usage, lacking the advantages of the latter, but let us see for ourselves to which extent this view is true.

Sentret starts as a slow Pokemon, sharing the base speed of... Geodude. To remedy that problem, it learns Quick Attack at lv. 11. Rattata learns Hyper Fang just two levels later, and outspeeds most things with ease, so it's easy to tell which of the two Pokemon is the best at this point.

The question is, how far is the player expected to have progressed in the game when his normal-type is at lv. 11-13? Most likely she has passed Union Cave and reached Azalea Town. At this point, the Swift TM is available. It's not highly contested and if one is training a Sentret, it's almost silly to avoid the opportunity to teach it to your ferret Pokemon. This makes the gap between Rattata and Sentret less noticeable and...

...That's right, Sentret evolves into Furret at lv. 15, which is 5 levels earlier than Rattata fully evolves! With Swift, or the Headbutt TM (which isn't terribly valuable as you can buy them for a very reasonable price in Goldenrod almost immediately after you receive your first one), Furret is as good as Raticate, and it evolves sooner, as stated.

Now, when we're past level 20, is it more beneficial to use Raticate or Furret? I can't really answer directly. For one, Raticate has more physical strength and speed (though still not a whole lot), while Furret is healthier and withstands physical attacks better. As for the movepool, Furret appears to learn just about everything Raticate does (well, besides the unique fang attacks) and more - it has access to Surf, which is not be underestimated at the early point it is acquired, and it can learn ALL THREE elemental punches via TM. With its laughable special attack, it can't hope to utilise those very effectively; however, if nobody else in your party can penetrate a 4x weakness of the enemy, Furret can fill the gap! Other punchers certainly do the job better though.

In the end, I'm going to give Sentret the same rating as Rattata. While Raticate is a decent glass cannon with some of the best availability, Furret isn't quite as strong or fast, but its bulky qualities can only be mentioned when we're comparing it to Raticate, as it simply isn't a tank in any sense of the word when evaluated on its own. Well, it can tank the Pokemon in Morty's gym, technically, since those can't hurt it, but which other Normal-type (of which so many are available) doesn't? With Surf and the punches, Sentret has a lot of versatility but not the stats to utilise it. Still, it comes early and you have all the time in the world to give it levels.

Rating: 7/10

Update: Totodile's rating is changed to 9.0 for the time being. I may adjust certain ratings as I go on reviewing the Pokemon, because comparing them to other ratings I gave makes it easier to see how useful Pokemon are in relation to each other, and that's the whole purpose of this topic. I'm still thinking if Totodile deserves more than 9 however. I'll wait on that one until I have other Pokemon of similar level of efficiency reviewed and thought over carefully.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Hoothoot

Every new Pokemon generation was consistent in the tradition to add a new "early bird" Pokemon. It was always a new bird whom you could catch early on whose usefulness declined as you progressed, with decent speed and attack, and whom you mostly kept with you out of convenience, so that you could fly from one town to another. The third generation's Swellow was quite a bit faster than its predecessors however, and Staraptor had impressive attack as well as Intimidate.

Hoothoot is the second generation's response to Pidgey and Spearow, except you still have the choice to make use of the other two at the same point of the game. It will be the first normal/flying Pokemon you meet if you start your playthrough at night. And Hoothoot is quite a unique bird.

A quick look at its stats reveals that its physical attack stat is lower than its special attack stat, for which it never gets any STAB (until the fourth generation). It evolves into Noctowl rather early at lv. 20, and becomes quite bulky, with high base HP and special defence. However, its offensive capabilities are lacking. It's stuck with Peck as its best attack until the Fly HM is available, so you better teach it Swift, because otherwise it will be a massive burden and a pain in the arse to train.

As for Noctowl's special attack stat... Its natural and TM movepools fail to make it any useful. Its first special attack, Confusion, is learnt at lv. 41. The unreliable Dream Eater TM is unavailable until Kanto, and the developers didn't bother even giving it access to Shadow Ball and Psychic (not that the latter is present as a TM during the maingame either, but it would comfort Noctowl's users somewhat).

Steel Wing, Mud-Slap, Hyper Beam, Take Down... Sadly, Noctowl gets deprived of useful moves big time, and his stats are distributed wrongly.

One quality Noctowl has coming about him is being the bird sleeper. It learns Hypnosis at lv. 16, before its eventual evolution 4 levels earlier. However, it's a rather slow sleeper, thus not being of any help if you intend to catch the trickier legendary dogs (assuming you do run into them, as in an efficient run we assume you don't hunt them down deliberately). However, when I captured weaker wild Pokemon, I liked that Noctowl had a weak attack accompanying Hypnosis, so that I could chip at them without being afraid of accidentally killing the target, and then patiently wait until Hypnosis connects, if even necessary. But once again, there are faster sleepers out there, with better offensive options, and Hypnosis's accuracy is unreliable.

With that said, Hoothoot is not recommended.

Rating: 4.5/10

[Espinosa]

Hoppip

By now I have praised availability as a decisive factor when it comes to a Pokemon's usefulness. Indeed, a Pokemon available early and that doesn't need a whole lot of grinding to become solid can be preferred to something that's very threatening at its maximum potential, but has late availability and requires a lot of time to level (like Dragonite).

Hoppip has the availability, as you can catch it as soon as you leave New Bark Town with your first Pokeballs. However, it is rare, not being available at night and being as prominent in the grassy areas as Pikachu is in Viridian Forest in the first generation games. However, Pikachu is worth catching in Red/Blue, whereas Hoppip isn't the kind of Pokemon you will actively seek out unless you intend to fill up your Pokedex.

You catch Hoppip at lv. 5, when it knows only Splash. At level 5, you learn Tail Whip and Synthesis. Isn't it beautiful? The game teases you until lv. 10, when Hoppip gets Tackle. It sounds good - Hoppip's first offensive move, right? You'll still probably find it quicker to end battles by switching out to something else if you're training him, as it's a very poor attack. If you're crazy enough to use Hoppip, you'll probably teach it Headbutt when you get the TM, which will make its offence a little less hopeless.

Hoppip's natural learnset is very poor, though it gets Sleep Powder at lv. 17, so once it evolves into its final form, Jumpluff, at lv. 27, it will be one of the game's fastest and most reliable sleepers. Jumpluff learns Mega Drain at lv. 44, but with that special attack, you might as well just rely on Leech Seed for damage. If you use Jumpluff to actually battle things, the game will drag on terribly. But who knows, perhaps one might enjoy that kind of battling? Hoppip certainly isn't a good choice in an efficient playthrough.

A TM worth considering for Jumpluff is Solarbeam. It requires 2 turns to charge, but it's by far the best move Jumpluff has when it comes to hurting things. And Jumpluff plain sucks at hurting things.

Rating: 2/10

[dondon151]

Wait. Rage is considered a good attack? Even earlygame I found it much faster to gum things to death with Scratch and Water Gun than Rage.

Anyway I think that for a typical player, having a team of 2 combat Pokemon is probably the easiest way to go through the game because it allows for not only sufficient overleveling but also a way to cover weaknesses and a contingency plan in case the other faints. Soloing the game is a bit less safe and is rather stifling on discussion.

Edited August 18, 2011 by dondon151