Draft Mafia Round 2: AnonyDraft gameOver

[Kamina]

I don't like Balboa's last post. He assumes what the votes on FLC were about without asking, then goes into a theory about scum-influence on FLC. Well, while that wagon may have been influenced, nobody is going to quicklynch that soon into phase. Earlygame wagons are just stupid.

1. I know what they are supposed to be, they're supposed to be reaction tests.

2. It's true that earlygame wagons usually don't get anywhere, I just have a bad feeling about how this one was carried out. It seems a bit too opportunistic for my tastes. And Okarin has done nothing to rectify that feeling with his votes being a tad all over the place.

Although navo isn't contributing to discussion at all, and he seems to convenientely disappear a lot but maybe he just has more of a life than me.

I really dislike fallacies that compare one situation to another, and then they say "look, it doesn't work because X did Y and it didn't work" or "look, there was a time on which X did Y and he suceeded". The situations just aren't the same, stop using them as arguments or backup.

How are they different? In PoTM, Kevin raged at being targetted in the RVS In this mafia, FLC raged about being targetted in RVS.

Also, what is this? "the first person to start a wagon usually isn't scum"? The way you said "all three people citing the same bland and lazy reason just reeks of suspicious" then didn't bring this up any further bugs me.

I don't even know what you're saying here. I mention the first person to start a wagon usually isn't scum in reference to bear knight who was the second person to vote and the start of the 3 man bandwagon which formed in the hour that followed. So yes these statements are related.

Scum-influenced wagon, huh. Then what do you think about the players who made these 3 reaction tests? Who looks scummy?

The response to this is found in the post of mine which you quoted earlier. Please actually read what you quote before quoting me and then criticising me.

Balboa looks worse for ignoring Okarin's dodge

I ignored Okarin's dodge? He dodged what? Am I missing something? There's been two and a half pages filled with wall of text posts and posts with hard to read text so I'm sorry for missing some of the finer details. Please gently nudge me in the direction of the post you mean and I'll gladly address it.

Oh wait i said i was going to look into plutonium, right,

Yes I have been active lurking, but I'm simply looking at the posts and seeing if there's anything of importance, and I wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions

This is the statement which bothers me the most. It would be nice of him to share what conclusions he is thinking of instead of continuing to active lurk, which is what this post implies he'll do.

[C. C.]

Chrome refreshed the page >_> Draft no.2

can't tell if this is directed at me, but I don't really understand my wagon. I've made two posts, and I haven't been around. My vote was also made during RVS, so... Plutonium, can you explain how I'm being vague?[/size] I don't like Balboa's last post. He assumes what the votes on FLC were about without asking, then goes into a theory about scum-influence on FLC. Well, while that wagon may have been influenced, nobody is going to quicklynch that soon into phase. Earlygame wagons are just stupid.

I really don't like plutonium's last post, and his vote on me. I've been doing the same thing as him, activity wise (except I've actually not been home) and he's voting me? He's also just echoing everybody else saying I'm being vague. I think his reads are off too, especially about FLC/Robins. If anything, I'd think they'd be on different teams. ]

@Scumnori

Your posts had much of lack of reasoning, but that's most likely due to the randomness of d1. I'll probably unvote soon, since alot more is coming up, but your 3rd post pointing out common sense (like mine, now that I look back).

My personal experience probably means nothing, but my guess of FLC+Robin's arguments (a bit more than the RVS start) is usually bored townie or scum nonsense, but the reactions were pretty good, so I'm slightly more inclined to believe that they are town.

Bear_knight and Caliban seemed to have pinpointed Okarin's elusiveness and inactivity banter, so I won't emphasize on that. But Okarin is looking more scummier by the moment.

Also, I think the attack on Balboa *might* be misdirected, especially on the "ignoring Okarin's dodge". Everyone can miss/forget a detail. Balboa is probably looking for something to work on.

In the event that I am lynched, which is certainly a possibility now, watch the people who jumped on my wagon. Robin, Rockmysocks and Caliban seemed to have reasons to vote me, but start looking for those that seem to be incidently jumping on to other's arguements.

I want your analysis of the current situation, soldier. Your opinion is fine, but I also want your analysis.

If I live to d2, then they'll be more of "real analyzing", because usually the d1 lynches are the townies or scum who accidently slip/contradict themselves. But this is what I've come up with.

TLDR: Scumnori hasn't added much, but Okarin is looking up to be the runner-up. Bear+Caliban scumhunting hard, Balboa might've just missed something.

How do you quote the person and what time they say what they do?

[Shiki Ryougi]

My tone was more "voting you cause ur st00pid lol" rather than "I'm going to vote you because you were acting stupid/scummy here, here, and here", but I understand how it could have come across that way.

Pluto still seems to be echoing. How can you say I'm not adding much when you haven't brought anything new to the table? This isn't a tier list, personal experiences DO mean something. Not in the metagame sense, but can you tell intown arguing apart from bussing? That argument definitely did not seem "bored" as you put it.

[Elieson]

Votals:

Bear_Knight (2): Spongebob, FourLeafClover

Scumnori (2): plutonium95, Moonside

Okarin (2): Navo, Caliban

plutonium (3): RockMySocks, Robin's Egg, Okarin(L-4)

FourLeafClover (1): Bear_Knight

Voteless: Balboa, Scumnori, Tesla.

Time left in phase: 38.5 Hours. 7 to Hammer.

_{*Caliban, you never unvoted before voting for Scumnori.}

Edited September 16, 2012 by Elieson

[Cú Chulainn]

Current thoughts:

I'm not really understanding the case against Balboa- it hinges on an associative tell between players who haven't flipped yet. One or more more of the people who are saying that I'm obvtown are probably sheepscum.

Plutonium, how are Okarin's reasons for finding you scummy any worse than your reasons for finding him scummy? Also, if you click the Reply button that's underneath every post, the quote in the new post will include timestamps.

Elie, weren't you going to reveal the drafting order after the game had started?

[Elieson]

Caliban.

Clarifying, outting the drafting order was never said to be public. I outted everyone's order in the rolePM.

[Rain Nijika]

@Scumnori

Your posts had much of lack of reasoning, but that's most likely due to the randomness of d1. I'll probably unvote soon, since alot more is coming up, but your 3rd post pointing out common sense (like mine, now that I look back).

My personal experience probably means nothing, but my guess of FLC+Robin's arguments (a bit more than the RVS start) is usually bored townie or scum nonsense, but the reactions were pretty good, so I'm slightly more inclined to believe that they are town.

Bear_knight and Caliban seemed to have pinpointed Okarin's elusiveness and inactivity banter, so I won't emphasize on that. But Okarin is looking more scummier by the moment.

Also, I think the attack on Balboa *might* be misdirected, especially on the "ignoring Okarin's dodge". Everyone can miss/forget a detail. Balboa is probably looking for something to work on.

In the event that I am lynched, which is certainly a possibility now, watch the people who jumped on my wagon. Robin, Rockmysocks and Caliban seemed to have reasons to vote me, but start looking for those that seem to be incidently jumping on to other's arguements.

If I live to d2, then they'll be more of "real analyzing", because usually the d1 lynches are the townies or scum who accidently slip/contradict themselves. But this is what I've come up with.

TLDR: Scumnori hasn't added much, but Okarin is looking up to be the runner-up. Bear+Caliban scumhunting hard, Balboa might've just missed something.

Here's my read of this post. Please tell me if I'm wrong about how you meant any of this.

-"scumnori's post lack reasoning, but that's ok cause it's D1. I'll probably unvote you soon cause you're not looking as bad anymore." This makes your vote essentially useless. You basically have told scumnori that there's no reason to worry about having to defend against that vote because you'll be getting rid of it soon.

-"here's some people that are town due to good reactions" calling two people town for basically no reason. anyone can have good reactions. it's d1, not hard to just explain things since there's not a lot to contradict yourself with.

-"some people find this person scummy, and I agree with them" echoing

-"comment on one other person that doesn't really say much" Seems like you're trying to look like contributing without giving anything useful.

-"guys if i'm lynched watch the people who lynched me" To me, this is a useless statement. "Look at the people who voted me!" Well, yes. If you are in fact a mislynch like you seem to be claiming to be, then we will look at people that jumped on the wagon. But honestly, I hear this statement more from scum than from anyone and it doesn't give you any points in my book.

-And then the lovely conclusion of "I'll contribute on D2 because D1 is a waste anyways." Yay more excuses for why you're not contributing. That's so useful and nice! (sarcasm)

TLDR: I'm leaving my vote right where it is.

[Rain Nijika]

Alrighty now, thoughts on the rest of the game.

Bear-Knight is pretty clearly trying to scumhunt as best as they can. And I think they may be on to something with Okrin. The few votes that BK has I believe are mostly for the part where they said they'd post and then disappeared for a while. Since BK's posted since then, and the posts have actual relevant and useful info, I'm expecting those votes to come off soon or a more updated and relevant reasoning for said votes.

Scumnori is getting a lot of flak for their early D1 vote, but their response to that flak has been ok, but not great. They've done some minor scumhunting, but would like to see more of that. The calling out of Plutonium for finding scumnori scummy for the same things that plutonium has been doing was a good point, but I'd still like to see more indepth scumhunting.

FLC: Eh, find them town that may have overreacted slightly to some joking around early D1. Honestly though, being not ok with someone even jokingly calling for claims is something that reads as more of a town tell than of a scum tell for me. Claiming is actively helpful to the scum and only sorta useful to town.

Okarin is... interesting. My first read of them was town that was poking at people to get reactions. But, the more I read them, the more I see the vote hopping and the prodding at inactives the more I'm less sure. I'm still having a town read here, but it's a rather weak one at the moment.

These comments are just on people with votes on them. I've mentioned in my past posts who else I'm currently finding town or scum. Anyone that hasn't been mentioned is a null read for me for either inactivity or just an inability to get a decent read off their posts. Will probably post more later after another reread.

[Marisa Kirisame]

so why are there anonymous accounts named spongebob and tesla? i don't remember them from anonymafia but they don't seem to be playing in this game either

speaking of not playing this game, willing to support scumnori wagon over any non-plutonium wagon today on policy because he's still not voting anybody. get the feeling okarin just has weird scumhunting priorities rather than actually being scum but still can't actually object to his lynch because he hasn't really done anything townie - at the very least, he should explain priorities between scumnori / plutonium and explain why they weren't worth voting for earlier in the day

plutonium's post is bad. so you're a newbie, okay. why are you flaunting this around in a fucking anon game of all things? sounds like somebody's trying to get a free pass around being scummy. the self-loathing is anti-town too cuz if you're town then just grow a spine instead of going "oh my reads will be wrong", it looks like you're trying to avoid blame when your reads flip the opposite of what you think they are.............. because youre scum

i'm surprised nobody is interested in starting a train on or even discussing navo when his single post was pretty bad and he then disappeared completely. in fact, to everyone around - what are your thoughts on navo right now? i would not mind dropping everything to form a wagon on this guy tbh

flc, seriously, why is bear_knight still scum and where are your opinions on the other half of the game you keep telling people to talk about?

[Cú Chulainn]

I wouldn't necessarily say that I'd drop everything to vote for him, but I agree that Navo's one post wasn't the best.

[Elieson]

Spongebob & Tesla., official ModProd. Nearly 36 hrs left in the phase.

Tesla. No posts at all. Will seek sub in 12 hrs. Spongebob, close to none, 14 hours.

Reminder to all players. Rules state that I have the right to godkill you if by phase end, I outpost you.

[Elieson]

Notice: Randy Butternubs has replaced Spongebob.

Tesla., you are still on Modprod.

[Cú Chulainn]

Elie has had 7 posts since the start of the game. Even discounting Tesla and Spongebob/Randy Butternubs, we have three players with less posts than that (Scumnori, Plutonium, Navo), and 4 more sitting on exactly 7 posts (Bear, Moonside, RockMySocks, Balboa). Step it up guys. If half the game gets modkilled at the end of D1 I (and probably the other people with more posts as well) will be really annoyed.

To expound more on why Navo looks bad, his first post is RVS, is second post is a jokepost, and the third consists of weak reasons for voting Okarin- his point against Scumnori was possibly more of a reason to vote somebody than his point against Okarin.

[Marisa Kirisame]

elie said he has the right to modkill those people, not that he will modkill them

[Sham]

Sorry I've been busy lately. I have time now and tomorrow though.

Now first off:

I can't tell if this is directed at me, but I don't really understand my wagon. I've made two posts, and I haven't been around. My vote was also made during RVS, so... Plutonium, can you explain how I'm being vague?

I don't like Balboa's last post. He assumes what the votes on FLC were about without asking, then goes into a theory about scum-influence on FLC. Well, while that wagon may have been influenced, nobody is going to quicklynch that soon into phase. Earlygame wagons are just stupid.

I really don't like plutonium's last post, and his vote on me. I've been doing the same thing as him, activity wise (except I've actually not been home) and he's voting me? He's also just echoing everybody else saying I'm being vague. I think his reads are off too, especially about FLC/Robins. If anything, I'd think they'd be on different teams.

Caliban seems townie to me, he's just being all-around useful. To respond to another one of his posts (he seems to mention my not being here a lot), I have not been here. I have not had time to make more than what I did post.

Here he state's that his vote was RVS. It's bolded.

My tone was more "voting you cause ur st00pid lol" rather than "I'm going to vote you because you were acting stupid/scummy here, here, and here", but I understand how it could have come across that way.

Pluto still seems to be echoing. How can you say I'm not adding much when you haven't brought anything new to the table? This isn't a tier list, personal experiences DO mean something. Not in the metagame sense, but can you tell intown arguing apart from bussing? That argument definitely did not seem "bored" as you put it.

Now, here he states that he had a specific tone voting said player because they were stupid. This really leads me to believe that it most definitely was not an RVS vote. If it was RVS then why are you defending your tone in the vote post? I really don't like this and it seems contradictory to me.

Caliban did my job for me for explaining reasoning for Okarin. Okarin seems to be doing what Shinori did in ICBINSFMM3.

Also, the below post is a post I don't like at all.

##Unvote

I feel like Bear_Knight's only focusing on FLC, with most of his/her argument echoed points from earlier posts, and his reads on everyone else seem half-assed. However, there are two characters that strike as scummier right now. Scumnori for reasons I stated earlier, and plutonium95 for his latest post. Not only does he admit to active lurking, his list post was nothing but uninformative one-liners.

##Vote Plutonium95

The vote swap doesn't seem that good to me. I could be biased though because I don't see the Plutonium reasoning at all. The vote swap seemed to me though that he swapped because other people were starting to say plutonium was scummy. Seems to me like Okarin is sheeping here.

Rockmysock's post #133 doesn't seem that good to me either. Let's go over his general reads in the post:

Bear-Knight - Basically says he's town.

Scumnori - Says he got flak for his early post and that his responses have been okay but not okay. Don't like this as it seems that he's waffling on him. He could easily just roll town or scum on Scumnori, if the two are scum buddies that is extremely beneficial. Could I get what you are leaning on Scumnori if possible RMS?

FLC - Says he finds them more town, basically because scum wouldn't do what he did I guess?

Okarin - Seems like waffling once again to me. Says he had a town read but it changed to just a weak town read, but the way he words it seems like it could easily change to a scum read at any second. Frankly don't like this. Why do you think Okarin is town?

I'm going to leave my vote on Okarin for now but I expect some sort of answer to the contradictory posts from Scumnori. I also would like RMS to respond to me when he get's a chance. For what it's worth I'm leaning scum on Scumnori and Okarin. And could someone explain to me how Plutonium is scummy? I don't see it.

I might end up taking a nap sometime this evening, so I may vanish. I should be around for most of the evening though.

[Sham]

To expound more on why Navo looks bad, his first post is RVS, is second post is a jokepost, and the third consists of weak reasons for voting Okarin- his point against Scumnori was possibly more of a reason to vote somebody than his point against Okarin.

My second post wasn't a full on joke post.

[Cú Chulainn]

...

##Unvote, ##Vote: Navo

[Kamina]

And could someone explain to me how Plutonium is scummy? I don't see it.

He's saying that he doesn't want to jump to conclusions but he isn't really reaching or even discussing said conclusions. He's even admitted to active lurking and seems content with it and continues to do so. Robin's egg also summed it up nicely:

plutonium's post is bad. so you're a newbie, okay. why are you flaunting this around in a fucking anon game of all things? sounds like somebody's trying to get a free pass around being scummy. the self-loathing is anti-town too cuz if you're town then just grow a spine instead of going "oh my reads will be wrong", it looks like you're trying to avoid blame when your reads flip the opposite of what you think they are.............. because youre scum

You have brought a good case on scumnori though.

[Rain Nijika]

Navo: I'm getting a town read on Scumnori. I never said his responses were ok but not ok. I said they were ok but not great. There's a huge difference there. What I said means that his responses are not bad, but could be a lot better. What you said means that I said his responses were good and bad. There's a huge difference between what I did and waffling. Waffling would be "well, he seemed scummy then, but now he seems sorta town, but I don't really know so I don't want to lynch him, but maybe we could" etc. What I'm saying is his posts are ok, but if I don't start seeing improvement I'll start looking a lot more closely at him.

I'm leaning town on Okrin because I honestly do feel like he's trying to contribute to the town, I just don't like the way he's going about it. His posts, especially at first, read as someone who's trying to find scum. But as the day progresses, he starts to scumhunt by prodding at inactives. Which, while that can sometimes work, doesn't look like it'll be much use here unless over half the game is scum. So I think he's town, but I really don't like how he's going about it. His current style is one I've seen used by both scum and town though, which is why it's a weak town read as opposed to a strong town read.

And, as Balboa said, plutonium is being actively unhelpful to the town right now by refusing to give anything more than one or two posts of barebone reads that aren't actually useful for getting us information.

[Cú Chulainn]

Someone please comment on how Navo came in and responded to the criticism leveled against him by saying that one of his posts wasn't completely a joke.

[Marisa Kirisame]

balboa: vote somebody

navo: your socks case reads as a combination of misrep and "socks finds people town" especially after elaboration. what about basically everything else socks has done content-wise?

tempted to boycott this game until spongebob's rep and tesla post

[Marisa Kirisame]

fuck my identity is revealed. im shinori. its over

[Cú Chulainn]

Okay I actually missed Navo's content post and thought he just posted the one-liner in response to me, but I don't like his reasoning on Scumnori- how is "lol Robin is st00pid" not an RVS vote reason? He makes it sound like that's a serious reason for a vote.

[All Might]

I'd rather not out my town reads unless they're on the chopping block. It gives the mafia a better idea of who's not going to be mislynched (in other words, who to kill early).

Now that I'm not under the influence of questionable substances, Bear_Knight's case did not bother to take town motivation vs. scum motivation into account. Rather, it assumed scum motivation, and ranted accordingly. This is an extremely bad way to defend one's vote, especially if there's a strong possibility that it can be town-motivated. Mostly everything that was cited were null tells, because they can be motivated by either alignment (genuinely pissed-off townie vs. mafia trying to look like they care). But enough about myself.

If my links don't work, let me know.

I have issues with this post. It can't decide whether it wants to be passive or aggressive. I do not look on the "but he's doing the same thing as me" defense favorably - show your differences via post quality, not complaints. The last paragraph was completely unnecessary. My thoughts on plutonium will be later.

plutonium - Being new is one thing, but being constantly self-depreciative does not help find scum. If you're having problems with Chrome nuking your stuff, compose it in Notepad/Textpad, then copypasta into Chrome. I don't like the "if I'm lynched watch who jumps on it" sentiment. First, it is already implied that people will be looking into the D1 lynch, no matter what the person flips. Second, it sounds like you're threatening other people who come onto your wagon with a lynch, which is the wrong attitude to have. With a majority lynch, you WILL have town on there. It's possible your accusation will hit one of the townies who has reason to believe you're scum, but isn't as good about vocalizing it. Third, by noting that certain people are more likely to be town because they had reasons to lynch you, it carries the assumption that mafia can't find logic to lynch players (town or otherwise). Lastly, that defeatist attitude towards D1 needs to go - town learns things no matter which side is lynched. I want to see if this "newbie" addresses the active lurking problem between now and when I wake up tomorrow. That will be the biggest indication of whether I feel I'm dealing with clueless newbie or lurking scum.

Navo - Tone is very important while scumhunting. Knowing the difference between a joking tone and one that's not already caused a shitstorm earlier in the thread. I also don't like how you can analyze Scumnori just fine and not be motivated enough to analyze plutonium. Meanwhile, you comment on Socks, and yet can't be arsed to do your own analysis of others. This reeks of lazy or scum, and neither help the town.

Butters - Hi, please be more useful than the sponge.

I still don't care for Red Text, but after a nice long trip to the bathroom, I can see how it's possible for a beginner to fall into the trap of not considering motivation. I can't see how lazy town helps the game.

##Unvote

##Vote: Navo

[Kamina]

balboa: vote somebody

I would, but I don't have any definite reads on anyone, I'm not confident enough to say "X is lynch worthy" quite yet. I absolutely hate not voting though. Gah.

No, I'm not going to vote. My mind isn't in the right place nor and I'm not thinking clearly enough about this mafia right now. I'm going to get a long night sleep and play catch-up again tomorrow, but hopefully be more "in" this game than I am now. I will say that plutonium is probably my no.1 scum read, and am wary of okarin and scumnori too, all for reasons previosuly stated though.