charcters that might go in the new super smash bros

[Anacybele]

Mewtwo was popular. Yet they kept fucking Jigglypuff?

I didn't think it was a good idea for him to be removed either. Even though I'm not a fan.

[Shin]

I have a feeling that with Awakening's relative success, they'd choose Krom over Ike if they had to. None of the original 12 got dropped in Brawl, but that's not saying much. I actually quite like Jiggs, she's a fun joke character.

[Knight]

I never understood the removal of Mewtwo, he was the only character removed from Melee who wasn't a clone of another character, and he was quite an iconic Pokemon in the games and anime. Despite the "tier lists" I quite enjoyed playing as Mewtwo because he was just fun to play as. And apart from the ball move, Mewtwo and Lucario are nothing alike, so I don't understand his removal at all. Apparently there was some almost finished data for him and Roy in Brawl, so that just makes me wonder more.

[mmKALLL]

Probably balancing issues, the roster looking nice as 9x4 and that they didn't want Pokemon to have more than four characters. After all, Mario has been the most represented, and after that it's been about even between Zelda/Pokemon. For whatever reason, regardless of Metroid being one of the big franchises, it has only a small amount of slots in the rosters.

I think that FE6 was popular in Japan, but they still picked Ike over Roy in the end. I wonder why the same couldn't happen between Ike and someone from FE13. They're unlikely to make the roster any bigger, after all, but have shown some liking to include more retro characters, which essentially would cut the other series' share. In fact, they may decrease the size of the roster to prevent another Meta Knight - but if they do, it's not going to be a big change, I think. I doubt that FE will be getting three characters, though.

In my opinion, there are more factors in the overall comparison supporting Krom than there are ones supporting Ike. FE13 was apparently very popular, and it wouldn't surprise me that they would go for the promotion and popularity at the same time by choosing Krom over Ike. Roy and Ike seemed to have similar purposes, after all. I suppose it's not completely out of question that Marth would get axed either, but FE12 was really great in Japan and Marth is so iconic that I do doubt it.

[Anacybele]

Roy and Ike seemed to have similar purposes, after all. [/size]I suppose it's not completely out of question that Marth would get axed either, but FE12 was really great in Japan and Marth is so iconic that I do doubt it.

Nope. Ike was added for better reasons than Roy was. Roy was just there to advertise his game because it wasn't out yet. Ike's games were already out by the time Brawl was released, and even then, Brawl used Ike's PoR model rather than the RD one and PoR had already been out for three years. Advertising the game that long after would be pointless.

I always surmised that Ike was added because he is more popular and more significant to the series than the other lords besides Marth due to having more starring roles in games. And even in Awakening there are still several shoutouts to him, including dialogue references, a whole paralogue with his title as the title, and a freaking descendant. And this isn't counting the DLC and Spotpass.

I have a feeling that a character is going to be cut from the roster to make room for both Ike AND Chrom to be playable. I'd cut ROB if it were my choice. This guy is just unknown, obscure, and pointless.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Anacybele

[Integrity]

I'd wager multiple characters will be cut and multiple will be added.

I think this is the most correct assumption of the thread.

[Rehab]

Don't you be talkin shit about my Robotic Operating Buddy

I like fighting ROB, though I'm not otherwise too familiar with him. I hope they keep parts of his moveset around, at least.

[Anacybele]

So that's what it stands for. I always wondered. But see, we're not really familiar with him. I didn't even know he existed until Brawl.

[Kon]

ROB is what saved gaming after the North American video game crash of 1983. He's also awesome and really fun to play with.

[Liz]

Nope. Ike was added for better reasons than Roy was. Roy was just there to advertise his game because it wasn't out yet. Ike's games were already out by the time Brawl was released, and even then, Brawl used Ike's PoR model rather than the RD one and PoR had already been out for three years. Advertising the game that long after would be pointless.

I always surmised that Ike was added because he is more popular and more significant to the series than the other lords besides Marth due to having more starring roles in games. And even in Awakening there are still several shoutouts to him, including dialogue references, a whole paralogue with his title as the title, and a freaking descendant. And this isn't counting the DLC and Spotpass.

I have a feeling that a character is going to be cut from the roster to make room for both Ike AND Chrom to be playable. I'd cut ROB if it were my choice. This guy is just unknown, obscure, and pointless.

And Chrom was the lord that made the breakthrough to the casual crowd thanks to a restructuring of the gameplay mechanics. what's your point?

and as much as i would like it, i highly doubt that they will be increasing the representation of Fire Emblem in the Smash Bros games. The series seems to keep franchise representation more or less dependent on their popularity/success, hence why we have oodles and oodles of Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, and why we only have 1 F-Zero.

not to mention, there is already an onslaught of sword-bearers that I honestly doubt they'll add one more just to satisfy the fan base of one of the smaller and minor franchises represented in the game. Like I mentioned before, what more can further representation of Fire Emblem provide for the Smash Bros series? there are already too many sword fighters in the game as is. if they decided to increase Fire Emblem representation, they would most likely either go for a non-swordfighting lord unit OR a villain. And in those aspects, Micaiah/Validar/Gharnef would probably have a greater chance of appearing than Ike.

Here follows a list of best selling franchises available on a Nintendo system, all have sold more than 5 million copies. Note how Fire Emblem is conspicuously absent from the list. I've included some 3rd party series that I believe are most likely to be represented if Nintendo decides to go for some 3rd party representation.

Mario (435.51 million)[n 5]

Super Mario (275.73 million)[n 1]

Mario Kart (80.08 million)[n 2]

Mario Sports (35.498 million)[n 3]

Mario Party (32 million)[4][55]

Mario RPG (12.2 million)[n 4]

Pokémon (219.28 million)[n 6]

Wii Series (192.76 million)[n 7]

Wii Sports (109.74 million)[n 7]

Wii Fit (43.15 million)[n 7]

Sonic the Hedgehog (85.13 million)[n 9]

The Legend of Zelda (68.13 million)[n 11]

Dragon Quest (59.0004 million)[n 33]

Donkey Kong (53.994 million)[n 12]

Pac-Man (43.243 million)[n 13]

Kirby (32.37 million)[n 18]

Brain Age (31.12 million)[56]

Mega Man (29 million)[34]

Super Smash Bros. (22.78 million)[n 20]

Monster Hunter (21 million)[34]

Castlevania (20 million)[71]

Metroid (14 million)[35]

Professor Layton (13.1 million)[n 25][95]

Star Fox (11.5 million)[103]

Animal Crossing (7 million)[136]

Why should Fire Emblem get another spot on the character roster when Metroid is only represented by one character? and I'm sure that Professor Layton and Animal Crossing want some representation as far as playable characters go. As far as third party goes, considering the critical darling that is Scribblenauts, it could probably manage to sneak in as a possible 3rd party representative and would fit in rather nicely with the rest of the cast ok, i won't plug in my character addition wishes anymore, but you have to admit Scribblenauts would be an awesome franchise to include in Smash Bros. or even maybe even Bayonetta, since Nintendo did rescue her from an untimely death ok, now i'll stop for real

And if ROB was cut, it would probably be in order to leave room for one of the fledgling Nintendo franchises that were surprise hits. Like Professor Layton or WarioWare or something of the sort.

tl;dr version:

there are many franchises that need and deserve any extra spot available. better be happy Fire Emblem keeps its two. and it'll be Marth and Chrom who stay, considering Marth has seniority and Chrom is from a game that makes it incredibly easy to jump into the series for newbs.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Liz

[Iridium]

And in those aspects, Medeus would probably have a greater chance of appearing than Ike.

too big

take charizard instead

-

Also, going by Media Create, Fire Emblem's sold at least 3.9 million in Japan alone. I forget how long Awakening lasted on the charts, but I really want to say it made it to 700k, which would put it above 4.4 million and leave a pretty small margin of 600k to make up for amongst six games to make up for in North America, Europe, and Australia.

I yield, however, that it was almost certainly below the threshold before Awakening.

[Liz]

too big

take charizard instead

-

Also, going by Media Create, Fire Emblem's sold at least 3.9 million in Japan alone. I forget how long Awakening lasted on the charts, but I really want to say it made it to 700k, which would put it above 4.4 million and leave a pretty small margin of 600k to make up for amongst six games to make up for in North America, Europe, and Australia.

I yield, however, that it was almost certainly below the threshold before Awakening.

i'm stupid, and meant Gharnef instead of Medeus.

however, my point still stands, even with the sudden increase in sales thanks to Awakening, it will still remain one of the minor franchises represented on the series. why should Fire Emblem have three character slots when Metroid has one? all the franchises want the character slots, and considering they have more freedom to create unique movesets with characters from other franchises, i don't see why they would add another Fire Emblem character.

[Anacybele]

however, my point still stands, even with the sudden increase in sales thanks to Awakening, it will still remain one of the minor franchises represented on the series. why should Fire Emblem have three character slots when Metroid has one? all the franchises want the character slots, and considering they have more freedom to create unique movesets with characters from other franchises, i don't see why they would add another Fire Emblem character.

Fire Emblem has loads of characters. Metroid does not. It's easier to find suitable FE representatives than Metroid ones, I would think.

Look, I'm sick of this debate. Nobody is changing my mind when I say I believe Ike should and will stay in. If Sakurai proves me wrong, well, fine, but I won't like it and I won't buy the game.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Anacybele

[Liz]

Fire Emblem has loads of characters. Metroid does not. It's easier to find suitable FE representatives than Metroid ones, I would think.

Look, I'm sick of this debate. Nobody is changing my mind when I say I believe Ike should and will stay in. If Sakurai proves me wrong, well, fine, but I won't like it and I won't buy the game.

Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid: Other M would like to have a word with you.

besides, you're missing the point of my post. i just used Metroid as an extreme example, because it only has one character available. all the other franchises want the same character slot too, that's why i always mention that fact

boo hoo, people don't agwee with me, and it makes me vewy sad.

[Anacybele]

boo hoo, people don't agwee with me, and it makes me vewy sad.

Take a tissue then. We all have opinions.

[sunshineYON]

Why am I still awake? Also, I think the new SSB is going to be very different in terms of its formula. Namco being involved and the whole Wii U + 3DS thing, who knows, maybe, just maybe there will be DLC, by which the slot wars will be meaningless. The problem with FE is that all the protagonists are too similar in style and picking a nonlord can't be done, as picking a character from a cast of hundreds is just an impossible feat on many levels. @Ana, I feel Ike has a decent chance. If he were to stay, it would probably be Marth, Ike and Chrom, which will be the most boring lineup EVA.

[Iridium]

Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid: Other M would like to have a word with you.

Then let's change the context a bit: recurring character. Nearly every character that survives those games is only relevant within those games, and even counting the people that this stipulation eliminates the only worthwhile one is Anthony Higgs.

There are exactly two recurring, humanoid characters within the Metroid series that are not Samus. One of them is Dark Samus, who I actually do support as a character but is generally derided for allegedly being a palette swap. The other is Adam Malkovich, a character associated with nearly all of the traits that make people dislike Other M - and even then, he's only technically recurring if you count his appearance as a computer in Fusion.

Metroid is about Samus. That's why she's in Brawl twice and only her. The other characters exist solely to be plot devices to get Samus to do things, or in the case of Metroid Prime Hunters, so that online battles have more diversity - because, really, that's about the extent of their relevance beyond the Instruction Manual. Dark Sammy and Adam aside, you're left with a giant brain in a jar, a babyslaying behemoth, and a possibly/possibly-not oversized space dragon - none of these have very easy movesets to make.

And Adam's moveset would pretty much consist entirely of forbidding characters from using certain attacks until he authorizes them.

-

Fire Emblem, though? It's not like Metroid. There's no single woman taking on the galaxy - there are many different lords with many different swords to slay many different evil abominations. Samus represents every game in the Metroid series, but Marth represents only represents four games from here. You could consider him the main lord, but with him alone you're not adequately representing the series - there are seven games he doesn't impact at all and two games he only impacts indirectly by engaging Camus or Medeus. I'm not saying we need reps from Valentia or Magvel, but I don't see a problem with adding characters like Chrom or Lucina or even potentially Eliwood or Leif, although it's a little late for those two and I'm aware I'm really kidding myself with the last one.

That having been said, I peeeersonally don't support another Fire Emblem slot unless it's Lucina. Both her and her dad would be another blue-haired swordsperson, but at least she'd help balance the gaping gender inequity without resorting to Micaiah.

-

And if you bring up Metroid, I implore you to mention Star Fox and Mother as well. Both of those sell less and yet have more characters - the former with even more characters than Fire Emblem.

[Raven]

I was pretty pissed when I found out my favourite Melee character won't be returning in Brawl. But I dealt with it and got good with Marth and Ike, who are my Brawl favourites. Sure I'll be pissed if Ike will be removed from SSB4, but it won't stop me from buying the game. Since after all, the game is about the range and change of characters. Wouldn't it be boring if the series kept the same characters and simply expanded the roster every game?

1) The roster would be huge and balancing would be near impossible, as Meta Knight in Brawl proved.

2) Characters take a lot of time, money and effort to make. The less that have to be made, the sooner we get to see an unhurried, complete, playable, balaned and enjoyable game.

Your favourite's missing? Deal with it and get a new favourite.

[Anacybele]

Your favourite's missing? Deal with it and get a new favourite.

Um, no. I'm not going to just drop Ike as my favorite simply because of being cut from a game I think he should've been in. That would be ridiculous.

Also, I have decided I might consider buying the game regardless of whether Ike is playable depending on what other characters become available.

Iridium: Thank you! Well said. :)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Anacybele

[Knight]

Then let's change the context a bit: recurring character. Nearly every character that survives those games is only relevant within those games, and even counting the people that this stipulation eliminates the only worthwhile one is Anthony Higgs.

There are exactly two recurring, humanoid characters within the Metroid series that are not Samus. One of them is Dark Samus, who I actually do support as a character but is generally derided for allegedly being a palette swap. The other is Adam Malkovich, a character associated with nearly all of the traits that make people dislike Other M - and even then, he's only technically recurring if you count his appearance as a computer in Fusion.

Metroid is about Samus. That's why she's in Brawl twice and only her. The other characters exist solely to be plot devices to get Samus to do things, or in the case of Metroid Prime Hunters, so that online battles have more diversity - because, really, that's about the extent of their relevance beyond the Instruction Manual. Dark Sammy and Adam aside, you're left with a giant brain in a jar, a babyslaying behemoth, and a possibly/possibly-not oversized space dragon - none of these have very easy movesets to make.

And Adam's moveset would pretty much consist entirely of forbidding characters from using certain attacks until he authorizes them.

-

Fire Emblem, though? It's not like Metroid. There's no single woman taking on the galaxy - there are many different lords with many different swords to slay many different evil abominations. Samus represents every game in the Metroid series, but Marth represents only represents four games from here. You could consider him the main lord, but with him alone you're not adequately representing the series - there are seven games he doesn't impact at all and two games he only impacts indirectly by engaging Camus or Medeus. I'm not saying we need reps from Valentia or Magvel, but I don't see a problem with adding characters like Chrom or Lucina or even potentially Eliwood or Leif, although it's a little late for those two and I'm aware I'm really kidding myself with the last one.

That having been said, I peeeersonally don't support another Fire Emblem slot unless it's Lucina. Both her and her dad would be another blue-haired swordsperson, but at least she'd help balance the gaping gender inequity without resorting to Micaiah.

-

And if you bring up Metroid, I implore you to mention Star Fox and Mother as well. Both of those sell less and yet have more characters - the former with even more characters than Fire Emblem.

Ridley would be nice, he's recurring, he's not humanoid but neither are many of the Smash Bros. competitors, he could easily be sized down like Bowser and be made playable.

[MacLovin]

I was pretty pissed when I found out my favourite Melee character won't be returning in Brawl. But I dealt with it and got good with Marth and Ike, who are my Brawl favourites. Sure I'll be pissed if Ike will be removed from SSB4, but it won't stop me from buying the game. Since after all, the game is about the range and change of characters. Wouldn't it be boring if the series kept the same characters and simply expanded the roster every game?

1) The roster would be huge and balancing would be near impossible, as Meta Knight in Brawl proved.

2) Characters take a lot of time, money and effort to make. The less that have to be made, the sooner we get to see an unhurried, complete, playable, balaned and enjoyable game.

Your favourite's missing? Deal with it and get a new favourite.

I love you for this.

Also I wouldn't give a shit if Marth+Ike were kicked out.

BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING SMASH BROS. IT'S AN INSTALLMENT IN A SERIES OF GREAT GAMES.

[Liz]

Take a tissue then. We all have opinions.

i'm not the one who's throwing a little fit at the possibility that my absolute favoritest character in the whole wide world might be cut from the Smash Bros roster. you might need that tissue, though.

Then let's change the context a bit: recurring character. Nearly every character that survives those games is only relevant within those games, and even counting the people that this stipulation eliminates the only worthwhile one is Anthony Higgs.

There are exactly two recurring, humanoid characters within the Metroid series that are not Samus. One of them is Dark Samus, who I actually do support as a character but is generally derided for allegedly being a palette swap. The other is Adam Malkovich, a character associated with nearly all of the traits that make people dislike Other M - and even then, he's only technically recurring if you count his appearance as a computer in Fusion.

Metroid is about Samus. That's why she's in Brawl twice and only her. The other characters exist solely to be plot devices to get Samus to do things, or in the case of Metroid Prime Hunters, so that online battles have more diversity - because, really, that's about the extent of their relevance beyond the Instruction Manual. Dark Sammy and Adam aside, you're left with a giant brain in a jar, a babyslaying behemoth, and a possibly/possibly-not oversized space dragon - none of these have very easy movesets to make.

And Adam's moveset would pretty much consist entirely of forbidding characters from using certain attacks until he authorizes them.

-

Fire Emblem, though? It's not like Metroid. There's no single woman taking on the galaxy - there are many different lords with many different swords to slay many different evil abominations. Samus represents every game in the Metroid series, but Marth represents only represents four games from here. You could consider him the main lord, but with him alone you're not adequately representing the series - there are seven games he doesn't impact at all and two games he only impacts indirectly by engaging Camus or Medeus. I'm not saying we need reps from Valentia or Magvel, but I don't see a problem with adding characters like Chrom or Lucina or even potentially Eliwood or Leif, although it's a little late for those two and I'm aware I'm really kidding myself with the last one.

That having been said, I peeeersonally don't support another Fire Emblem slot unless it's Lucina. Both her and her dad would be another blue-haired swordsperson, but at least she'd help balance the gaping gender inequity without resorting to Micaiah.

-

And if you bring up Metroid, I implore you to mention Star Fox and Mother as well. Both of those sell less and yet have more characters - the former with even more characters than Fire Emblem.

Like i said, Metroid is just an example. yes, I'm aware that available characters in Metroid to use are minimal compared to the shitton of characters available in Fire Emblem, and most of those characters are one-shot that are only important for the particular installment they appear. but that doesn't mean that there isn't any to select. in fact, with careful structuring so he doesn't end up being a clone, Ridley could very much be an excellent addition, thanks to his consistent appearance on the Metroid series, his popularity with the fanbase and game developers, and his importance in the Metroid mythos.

but like i said, Metroid is just one case of a franchise needing more representation. We have franchises like Donkey Kong, Professor Layton, Chibi-Robo, Captain Rainbow lol that ain't happening, Xenoblade, etc etc etc who would very much like a spot in the roster, and have much more to offer to the Smash Bros series.

yes, i'm aware that StarFox and Mother are over represented. and honestly, they will more likely be the franchises that receive cuts if the game developers decide to go reducing the character roster significantly (Mother for being an unsellable franchise outside of Japan that has essentially reached its end, StarFox for being a minor franchise with excessive cloned moveset characters). I don't understand how Mother managed to get 2 character slots, especially considering that the characters are essentially identical, but when it comes to StarFox, they could hardly forsee that the franchise would dwindle in sales so much, especially when you account how successful StarFox 64 was. just like they couldn't foresee that Fire Emblem, the franchise that was essentially Japan-only before because damn Westerners didn't have time for that shit, would suddenly become the next big thing. I am certain that the character roster will be changed to reflect this.

but this is still irrelevant to the point i was making, and the one with which Anacybele found issues with. Why does Fire Emblem deserve another character slot, when there are more popular franchises that want it and newer franchises that need it? it would be impossible to create a game with every single character ever, and as such some compromises will have to be made. i don't see why it's such a heinous idea to remove Ike from the roster in order to make room for Chrom, it makes far too much sense. Chrom will be by far the most recognizable face in all of the Fire Emblem franchise thanks to how well Awakening is selling, and while i do agree that Ike is among the more popular lords of the series, I don't see them adding another swordfighter from a minor franchise just to satisfy a select few individuals who glorify Ike's role in the series. you say there are many different lords and many different games, but essentially they all fill essentially the same roles. And like I said quite a few messages ago, they could possibly cover all the roles in a satisfactory manner by providing alternate skins for characters.

so now we've come full circle. the best way to represent all of the individual fire emblem games is to provide alternate skins so that you can select if you play as Ike, Chrom, whatever whatever. in fact, this would work quite nicely with franchises such as Mother and StarFox, which are plagued by clones. like that, they can plug in new franchises and work on balancing issues without sacrificing beloved characters. While not ideal, it would be the best way to keep everyone more or less happy. There is no need for a good chunk of the roster be covered by fire emblem when alternate skins would suffice.

[Anacybele]

i'm not the one who's throwing a little fit at the possibility that my absolute favoritest character in the whole wide world might be cut from the Smash Bros roster. you might need that tissue, though.

Nah, I'm not the one either. I was merely debating why Ike should stay, is all. Oh, and Luigi is also my favorite, btw. I just don't think there is any reason for either of them to be cut. Especially Luigi.

[S_Cero]

You know what is needed? Waluigi. Waluigi make everything better. Waluigi should be the only character. *shot*

[Knight]

You know what is needed? Waluigi. Waluigi make everything better. Waluigi should be the only character. *shot*

Never, not even once.