Toonami Mafia: Game Over

[Bard]

Everyone's being so obtuse with their scumreads even though we have a lot of discussion and left jotevoke phase a long time ago. At some point I would also propose we commence ritual slaughter of the lurkers, to avoid any scum making use of the noise to slip into the shadows.

[BBM]

Yeah, I was talking to Kirsche. I didn't mention much about NNR because honestly I couldn't think of anything new to say. And it's always good to have a few divergent wagons rather than just one, especially on D1.

As for claiming results on someone who's not there being risky, it is. But there's no reason to lie in that situation either, with Manix not even being there.

[Xinnidy]

At the end of the phase, the player with the most votes gets lynched, regardless if it's a hammer or not (Elie if I'm wrong about this then correct me pls). Why do I imagine you to look like your avatar irl

Ok, that's nice to know.

it's

The last time I remember encountering a cop gambit, it was with a member who was subsequently banned from playing Mafia as soon as that game ended. Cop fakes make me super sad as a result. Stop fakeclaiming cop for reactions, there are a million ways it could go bad.

Anyways I remembered I have role-related reasons to suspect Manix is scum based on Bard's claim. Well, suspect more, anyway.

I'd like to know more about this game after this one is done with then, I don't see how a cop claim I can control and am sane about would go this awry unless somebody else made a complete mess out of it. I don't think it's being relevant enough to this game to warrant anything immediate though. So no, nothing bad happened. What are you going to think about it now?

You still haven't explained how did you find Manix scummy ever before when you only started mentioned the guy after you said you believed in Bard's results.

That post you linked was simply "You sure seemed tight-lipped despite having a deathwish", if it matters. I take cop claims (too) seriously, plus I wasn't willing to back down because I'm stubborn. Sue me.

... ok, I'd gotten different vibes. That seems like a stretch, but that explanation makes sense to me for a townie to think. However, I think that Bard's rebuttal also does. Suddenly this feels a useless tangent.

[Xinnidy]

dammit misclick

I hate the tab button right now

Anyways I'm not really done so back to reading >.>

[NekoRex]

what do you mean, "remembered"? I read this and all I see is a desperate bussing attempt for TownCred. I'd like to hear more about these reasons.

So you want me to claim??

[Naglfar]

So you want me to claim??

let's just say that the implication that we could learn a lot about you and manix simultaneously is very tempting. what's the worst that could happen? (serious question)

[Snike]

Bard is probably legit, and NNR is scummy, but there's no real point to just sheeping another vote on him atm, so ##Vote: Snike.

He starts with a weird suspicion of the investigation results that doesn't really make sense. Why on earth would anyone fake results D1 on somebody who's not even there? The wording in his last post is also odd. His suspicion has eroded "quite a bit". So is it still there any? His reads in his second-last post are also kind of bad because he more or less handwaves the NNR case as "oh he's just stubborn", when that doesn't really prevent him from being scum. Why does his stubbornness nullify the other reasons people point out?

He says Scorri is slightly worse than Prims on the front of automatically assuming Bard is legit. Now, if this is the case, and he has a slight suspicion on Scorri, why is he completely ignoring the case on her? One would think that he should be at least commenting one way or the other on that.

And at the end despite some small suspicions against both Scorri and Shinori, he just retains his RVS vote, which I suppose isn't really all that scummy but just irks me.

Bolded: The results were worded oddly originally, especially with the faction name mentioned in it. When the paraphrase came through it mad more sense. As for why someone would fake results, there would be no chance to hear the other side of the argument, as well as making them an unlikely lynch target that day. Hypothetical: If there's a ML D1, and the mass hook goes off, assuming Manix isn't the mass hook that's 2 town mislynches wasted. Not a bad trade imo, but I don't rationally believe that's the case here anyways. Irrationally is another matter, which is why I said "quite a bit". Also I'm fond of britishisms.

Italics: That's true, but from what I read it was more like he went like a certain user and took the claim literally, since he kept going after people brought up that it was a joke. I liked the back and forth between him and scorri as well. The vote switch was bad, yes, but I don't think that was scummy so much as a poorly-explained move. Also joo's remark about the one look at the results is unfair given that I asked for clarification because the result was confusing. Also also Nag's bus accusation doesn't make sense since we already have a guilty report on Manix. NNR just saying that doesn't change anything, and I don't see how it's bussing so much as explaining a vote switch.

Why am I playing this game

Underline: Scorri's second post of D2 and her first opinion post other than asking Xin if she was serious was saying that she believed bard's claim. I didn't catch that Bard's vote was a reaction test until after the fact (I thought it was RVS), so I can't really fault her for that. The ensuing argument and what not looks fine outside of the giving up part, but it's her tone that bugs me. It strikes me as apathetic, though while that's subjective, doesn't make me feel good.

@XIn vote: She did exactly what Shinori did, except caused a minor shitstorm in the process. That's arguably worse than just flaking. However, she did post content, so that vote is outdated, so

##Unvote

In other news, I have an issue with using 'sheep' like that. Usually sheeping is when someone blindly follows a wagon. I saw your explanation later but the way you worded it here is pretty bad.

Of course, kirsche was worse. Pops in, votes someone because they don't want to sheep + seem self-conscious (?????????), while ignoring the handwave issue which would be a legit reason to vote that person, pops out. Cam hasn't done anything and neither has Shinori really, but this strikes me as worse than either of those two.

##Vote: Kirsche

[NekoRex]

Well I guess I'm slated to be lynched anyway, at this rate.

I'm the Town Compulsive Roleblocker. N0 I blocked Captain America because he claimed a passive role, and I didn't suspect he had something else on top of it, and I wanted to avoid screwing over a strong townie PR by accident. Was tempted to block Manix, but Millers tend to have some other role behind them.

[NekoRex]

Apparently a soft CC to an already guilty player isn't enough to get people off my back, who knew.

[BBM]

What the hell, why did you claim so early? It's like not even 24 hours into the game. ;/ Not sure what to make of that claim. When did Rein crumb a passive role?

@Snike- Okay, fair enough for now. ##Unvote

I dislike how Kirsche quotes me out of context. The sentence goes on to say "I don't want to sheep another vote", and he just removes the last part of the sentence to make it seem like I'm afraid of sheeping when that wasn't the issue.

[BBM]

Whoops, clicked post before I was done.

I also don't really like the "I might just have something against your playstyle". It seems like an attempt to distance himself from his own vote. And he's only played two (finished) games with me recently. In one of them I actually was scum, and in the other he didn't really attack me, so I don't even see the correctness of that.

##Vote: Kirsche

Naglfar, why did you want NNR to claim so early?

[NekoRex]

What the hell, why did you claim so early? It's like not even 24 hours into the game. ;/ Not sure what to make of that claim. When did Rein crumb a passive role?

1) Because someone asked.

2)

Rein:

I'm also an insomniac, but all my posts at night have to include Boogie Boogie~, was just checking if i had to do it N0, which I do. Yes, for real.

[NekoRex]

This game is making me super sad right now.

[Zkirsche]

I'm a bit confused with the whole Xin'dy-NNR interaction and will reread when not tired.

Haha when am I not tired or confused at D1. N0 doesn't help.

while ignoring the handwave issue which would be a legit reason to vote that person

Instead of being a dick how about you explain why that isn't a legit reason because otherwise your vote looks very half-assed.

I dislike how Kirsche quotes me out of context. The sentence goes on to say "I don't want to sheep another vote", and he just removes the last part of the sentence to make it seem like I'm afraid of sheeping when that wasn't the issue.

I didn't quote you out of context I addressed the end bit I just deleted it because even with that last bit it looks like your afraid of sheeping. It's not like he was getting hammered and if you think he was the scummiest person at the time vote him and hold true to your convictions. By not voting him you're distancing yourself away from your own scumread just so you might be able to back out of it later.

In one of them I actually was scum, and in the other he didn't really attack me, so I don't even see the correctness of that.

-Stubbornly called you scum in 2hu

-Stubbornly called you scummy D2 in Masquerade.

-Called you my second biggest scum read

Actually rereading now so expect something.

[Zkirsche]

half-assed is the wrong way of putting it. Vague/Lazy fits better.

[Zkirsche]

On a personal note I absolutely hate clutter posts like #163. Just makes rereading more annoying than it should be. Not scummy though, or at least not this early. If it were later then you could say you were distracting town.

-I don't think both NNR and Manix are scum as I don't think scum would have a roleblocker (assuming Bard's inspec on him was actually accurate) and then have someone else claim it because that's super risky.

-Xin'dy seemed genuinely clueless in her first post. Null.

-Can scorri elaborate on her #200: do you think that Manix is actually a roleblocker or do you think the roleblocker part comes with the role.

-Wait is Bard's claim serious or not I'm confused?

-Don't like NNR's bard vote in #205, seems too convinced that Xin is cop and Bard isn't.

-On the other hand Snike seems a bit too hesitant to believe Bard but this is minor.

-"Oh man guys it was just a reaction test. I didn't get that much but I don't regret it" ugh I hate these so much but townies do it all the time. Knowing that you weren't clueless makes me dislike your original post a lot more.

Just thought I should clarify a bit for you BBM: I saw your point about not feeling that voting Snike would get you as far, but I disagree; you should always vote your strongest scum reads, or at least make them clear. By the way you worded it I was not sure if Snike or NNR is your biggest scumread.

[Zkirsche]

Quadra-Post

it's a rather weak vote.

Perhaps, but it was ED1 and IMO the best option at the time and I don't see anythign really major in the fluff beforehand. Still don't really, kinda see where Prims is coming from by calling this a dead game because nothing major jumped at me other than Xin'dy's dumb reaction test and obviously BBM.

[BBM]

Pretty sure Bard is serious.

Votes follow the law of eventually diminishing marginal returns. After a certain point, every additional vote means less. Is NNR going to act differently under 4 votes as opposed to 3? Probably not by much. Is Snike going to act differently under 1 vote as opposed to 0 votes? Yes. My vote was more useful on Snike than on NNR, especially as I wasn't sure which I found worse. Why is it scummy if I'm not making it entirely clear who my strongest scumread is?

I actually was scum in Touhou, so you calling me scum wouldn't really be a problem with my playstyle as much as you being correct. Additionally, your read there was for different reasons than it is here. You were scum in Masq and you were attacking me there for overuse of WIFOM, which also isn't the reason you're voting me this game. Saying that you just don't like my playstyle isn't really all that correct, and so I'll restate that it feels like an attempt to distance yourself from your own read.

[scorri]

He also said his role wouldn't make sense as a mafia role (false) and it'd make little to no sense for mafia to tailor Manix since they could likely assume that no cop would be targeting Manix. So unless it was a mass role tailor (not unheard of, but unlikely), I think we can take Bard's word here since it'd be real dumb for him to be lying right now.

Kirsche: I'm assuming this is the post you're talking about? In which case, I'm saying that either Manix was lying about the fact that his role wouldn't make sense as a mafia role and is in fact mass roleblock, or there's a (mass) tailor/Bard is lying. I am more inclined to believe that Bard is not lying since it wouldn't be the smartest move, tailoring Manix who claimed miller seems odd since if he's miller he'll already show up as scum and if he's scum, he probably usually wouldn't be high on inspection lists, so why bother tailoring him, and a mass role tailor seems... unlikely but not impossible. Overall, the most likely scenario, as far as I see it, is that Manix was lying about being a miller and is in fact scum.

[Prims]

Massblock and an actual block can co-exist. Claiming to block the compulsive role doesn't mean anything because he can't confirm or deny it.

The "kirsche is distancing himself from his vote" case is really graspy, he's still making the vote and therefore committing to it if BBM ever flips town... Don't like BBM much atm, also want to know what he thought about Snike's huge post when he unvoted.

Xinnidy, why is your vote on SB? Your words:content ratio is kinda fucked up.

[Bard]

If we're all roleblocked tonight then we know whether I'm lying or not; If I flip Town in the process it should narrow everything down.

Guys, discussing or even considering whether I'm right or not isn't a top priority today.

FWIW NNR's claim doesn't do much for me imo, it seems a bit silly to conveniently "forget" your role is a roleblocker for some reason.

[Bard]

Also if there's multiple Mafia teams he can very well be one of the other team, if there's only one team it might be overkill to have two roleblockers but honestly, outguessing the mod + no certainty Neko's claim is real due to above convenience.

[Prims]

Bard, do you have any reads on other people?

because i don't

[Bard]

Bard, do you have any reads on other people?

because i don't

Everyone's Scum^TM.

But I wouldn't want to lynch BBM, scorri or Naglfar at this moment. I'd definitely be interested in Snike, and I could see j00 or kirsche being scummy but not a top priority for today.

[Shinori]

I'm back from my issues at home that I told elie about. I'll read stuff and get a post down today.