British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Sunwoo]

Yes, you explained your stance, but that doesn't mean I like it. A player who's subbing in can't speak for their predecessor or their motives, but their slot as a whole can still be judged for what the predecessor did. A person who subs in for someone who's under suspicion will know that they have things that'll be held against their slot, so it's not so much a matter of "breathing room".

Also, even if a case is on someone who has already subbed out, it's still a valid point that can be argued against or debunked by other players. There is literally no reason to withhold it just because the player subbed out.

[CT075]

i'm just going to listwall this because i'm far too backed up at this point to scumhunt normally

Warning: if you want to quote small portions of this post you'd have better luck copying the relevant portion manually (as in from the big page) and then enclosing taht in quote tags

[spoiler=Bladescape]Ha! Fuck reading new material at 3 AM and nothing he did in D1 is worth talking about

[spoiler=Boron]"I'm more bothered that Darros... empty unvote" - as stated, too easy and ignores other things going on simultaneously (i have this in my quicktopic as sheeping something but I guess it wasn't ~O_o~)

"It looked like he had backed off Cam because of his claim", "Yeah, I don't quite understand..." - fine

"I feel that he tried too hard to justify his unvote. - Other things had definitely happened at that time, not entirely convinced that darros' empty unvote was the scummiest thing worth pursuing

"I really don't like this response", "WHY do you pressure..." - pushing makaze for doing something weird is fine but why "not convinced you're new scum" vs "town doing scummy things"? No explanation is given from what I can see.

"Personally, I dislike "reaction tests" as an excuse" - fine

"I think Darros is scum" - At this point there were definitely things that had gone on other than things based around Darros' unvote. Even if I buy the whole "well he could be newbtown" (without reasons given as to why it's more likely to be newbtown vs scum), how is it that there was nothing gleaned from other happenings? Offhand, there was me vs Junko and prims "being prims", as well as BBM kind of being in the background without getting involved.

"Give me your reads on everyone else in the game" - don't really have a problem with this other than my usual issues with blanket requests

"my point is that FFM is basically voting me over something that... most people are doing" - FFM's vote was admittedly shitty as fuck but this is a surprisingly passive-aggressive/defensive response to such a benign post by bladescape. This is also followed up by an OMGUS (I am probably being colored by confirmation bias wrt this point in particular); all I can see of the case there is "FFM voted me for doing things that other people are doing" which is kind of shitty (not that FFM was squeaky-clean at that point regardless, but I'll get to him).

"This is not odd, FFM." - See above wrt bladescape, this looks super snappy, in a sort of "how dare you think I'm not town!" way; note that part of the defense includes "why would I fake numbers"... which is something that FFM never actually accused her of?

"I don't understand why Cam's vote on Junko was hypocritical" - response to FFM is fine, I really don't get why darros refusing to vote made him scum

[-i had a lot written down about the posts in between here but then i realized a lot of them were "ok yeah this is alright"-]

"FFM came back and at least responded to the cases on him" - It is admittedly a day later, but Boron's tone towards FFM made a huge 180 from apparently being hugely annoyed with him to what seems almost encouraging? Next, the line about FFM immediately following the Paper vote completely rubs me the wrong way. "FFM came back and responded but he's not off the hook" gives license to have any possible read on FFM in the future (it opens up both "yeah his responses were fine so i think he's town" and "he's not talking about current events he's scum"). It almost feels like a little unnecessary thing thrown in to justify moving her vote off FFM, even though the Paperblade case was fairly solid (moreso than the FFM one IMO). It's worth noting that this is the third vote on the Paper wagon (third and fourth votes are, in my experience, the places where scum hide because it's just early enough where it doesn't look like sheeping).

"I literally want to punch you" - punching me is a scumtell

On a slightly more serious note, calling me a hypocrite is a shitty defense for this reason

boron's role in the whole "what am ITP" debacle is actually far less interesting than I thought it was so i'll skim that

"If you think I'm the only one..." is a shitty defense because other people doing it doesn't make it not bad. never mind that i was apparently wrong

"i'm not interested in pursuing junko" why?

psych stuff - pointless post; rolespec without a conclusion drawn is just distracting

CONCLUSION - my memory apparently sucks when it comes to ~context~ but there are a lot of little insidious things that are on my mind. A number of them are probably just confirmation bias being dumb so I'm leaning more null on Boron. Interactions with Paper are mostly not there (and before someone inevitablly tells me to go read (placing the word "fucking" in the middle is optional), i'd far rather you show me) and I can definitely see scum!Paper saying "yeah I won't be around you guys should lynch me and get free towncred".

[spoiler=Cam]obvtown (nobias)

[spoiler=Darrps]HOENN INTENSIFIES - hoenn was a shitty-ass region dirty scum 2surf4me

darros is actually really okay, other than spending multiple posts arguing (pointlessly) about ITP etc (i explained why itpspec is shitty af)

CONCLLUSION - darros am i scum?

[spoiler=FFM]first off, if FFM ragesubs i am going to policy lynch him in every future game i play with him for the rest of forever

wall #1 consists of mostly okay pokes and comments (if a bit sheepy and uninspired) other than his insistence that junko is n00bt0wn... except he ends by voting Boron? wat

wall #2 reads to me like he's trying to find excuses to find other people scummy; half of everything other than the things that pertains to me are qualified with "well this is bad but it MIGHT NOT BE". In particular, the line "As it has already been said, Darros' vote/unvote in RVS was pretty sus... Darros would know this." is about as waffle as you can get in one line, then there's

you jumped on his case only to retract your statement shortly after?

sounds like something a eager newb townie would do in all honesty

without any further explanation; makes no sense and then tells me that i'm "reading too much into things"... wat

AtE is pointless and a waste of time and I would lynch regardless of alignment if this kept up because it's a liability to have a defeatist attitude around during XYLO

wall #3 is painful to read and doesn't actually have anything useful in it

baa and then bullshits some reasoning, i would have far less problem with it if he'd just voted for consolidation etc and left it at that

"Cam focusing on Junko to the exclusion of everything else is strange" - have you pushed anyone other than me? you backed off of walrein after maybe two lines worth of talking about him because he subbed (aka not a reason) and you dropped boron out of nowhere

[spoiler=j00]j00's stuff is pretty good and is far more coherent than I am when it comes to saying things so i won't go in-depth

rest of playerlist when i wake up because it's past 4 AM

[Kay]

How did Cam have time/energy to post that wall about Boron and not enough to read Bladescape's posts? Why even mention Bladescape to say nothing?

What do you think about Prims or Cam or Darros? Or even FFM from D1 stuff? Is Eury your only scum read right now or just the best?

Darros is still scummy for his D1 AtE defensiveness, I totally forgot he was playing. Prims is looking worse to me now than when I posted then because (have to doublecheck this because skimming) I feel like he dropped some of his usual pushiness and it seems self-conscious to me. FFM just looks like his usual dopey self.

[Baldrick]

@cam; I meant your "sell me on paper" and not returning. It was a way to avoid either getting on Paper's wagon or opposing it.

@boron; I'm leaning scum on psych. his shinori case was him (psych) not reading the thread properly, he hasn't had a lot of other content today. But he seems more natural than cam, and I see less scum intent in his posts.

@bladescape; if you weren't going to share your thoughts on junko I don't see the point of bringing him up in the first place. If you were, and you didn't expect me to answer them, there's no reason to wait for me to settle in before you share them. I don't like letting slots off the hook because they subbed out because it encourages subbing out tactically.

I'll get to Cam's latest now.

[bladescape]

Yes, you explained your stance, but that doesn't mean I like it. A player who's subbing in can't speak for their predecessor or their motives, but their slot as a whole can still be judged for what the predecessor did. A person who subs in for someone who's under suspicion will know that they have things that'll be held against their slot, so it's not so much a matter of "breathing room".

Also, even if a case is on someone who has already subbed out, it's still a valid point that can be argued against or debunked by other players. There is literally no reason to withhold it just because the player subbed out.

That's actually fair enough, and I was and did provide it. My stance was to leave them to do the initial catchup before putting that on top. It can be argued either way, tbh, so long as the informationis provided at the end. I don't think I'm changing my stance, you probably won't change yours, so an agreement to leave the subject be then?

[Sunwoo]

"I'm more bothered that Darros... empty unvote" - as stated, too easy and ignores other things going on simultaneously (i have this in my quicktopic as sheeping something but I guess it wasn't ~O_o~)

The only other things that were actually going on at this point were Junko's "inquisitiveness" and your nexus claim. Which means the only actual thing to discuss was Junko. We were also barely even out of RVS, how strong of a case do you expect anyone to have on anyone else at that point? Why is it "scummy" as opposed to just being "easy"?

"I feel that he tried too hard to justify his unvote. - Other things had definitely happened at that time, not entirely convinced that darros' empty unvote was the scummiest thing worth pursuing

The only new thing that was going on was Prims pursuing Makaze, which had just barely started to be a thing. Otherwise, the main point of focus was still either Junko or Darros. Also, just because you personally are not convinced it was the scummiest thing worth pursuing, that does not mean that I felt the same. Is it innately scummy that what I think is "more scummy" differs from what you think is "more scummy"?

"I really don't like this response", "WHY do you pressure..." - pushing makaze for doing something weird is fine but why "not convinced you're new scum" vs "town doing scummy things"? No explanation is given from what I can see.

Because he's literally new and I barely paid attention to Training mafia, his only other game. New players often do or say things that may look scummy to veterans, but until I can determine the scum intent is there I'm not comfortable with making a call.

"I think Darros is scum" - At this point there were definitely things that had gone on other than things based around Darros' unvote. Even if I buy the whole "well he could be newbtown" (without reasons given as to why it's more likely to be newbtown vs scum), how is it that there was nothing gleaned from other happenings? Offhand, there was me vs Junko and prims "being prims", as well as BBM kind of being in the background without getting involved.

So me questioning Makaze about his strange reasoning for his vote on you is not a thing? It was even in the same post. You're acting like I literally ignored everything except for Darros, which is not true. Yes, I thought Darros was the scummiest, but it's not like I ignored everything except for him which is what you seem to be trying to get everyone else to believe.

Also, I'm not going to magically and immediately form an opinion on everyone who posts something just because they post something, and if I don't have any issues with someone or am "town-reading" someone I'm even less likely to mention it. Why should I mention that I'm reading Prims as being Prims, for example, if that's literally all I can say about him at the time?

"my point is that FFM is basically voting me over something that... most people are doing" - FFM's vote was admittedly shitty as fuck but this is a surprisingly passive-aggressive/defensive response to such a benign post by bladescape. This is also followed up by an OMGUS (I am probably being colored by confirmation bias wrt this point in particular); all I can see of the case there is "FFM voted me for doing things that other people are doing" which is kind of shitty (not that FFM was squeaky-clean at that point regardless, but I'll get to him).

I hate votes on me that I feel have literally no basis, this is not new. And bladescape saying "or you just didn't read" when HE completely missed the point of my statement irritated me.

Also, you're completely misinterpreting everything I say with regards to "you're voting me for things other people are doing". It's not a defense, it's a request for explanation. If there are many people in the game who are currently doing a certain behavior (in the situation FFM presented, only talking in depth about three people and not much of others), and you're only going to vote or express suspicion on ONE person, when your ONLY given justification is the behavior that other people are also doing, then it is on YOU to explain why this one specific person doing things that other people are doing is scummy while other people doing those things are either not scummy or not as bad. Otherwise, this is just selective vision. And having "selective vision" is scummy.

"This is not odd, FFM." - See above wrt bladescape, this looks super snappy, in a sort of "how dare you think I'm not town!" way; note that part of the defense includes "why would I fake numbers"… which is something that FFM never actually accused her of?

You would also be capable of making an accurate estimation of the amount of townies/scum/solo players if you were scum.

If the above quote from FFM regarding my numbers doesn't imply that he thinks I'm faking numbers, I don't know what to say to you. See my above response for the "snappiness".

"FFM came back and at least responded to the cases on him" - It is admittedly a day later, but Boron's tone towards FFM made a huge 180 from apparently being hugely annoyed with him to what seems almost encouraging?

Dude, just because I was annoyed with him and his inactivity doesn't mean I want him to ragequit the game. What, should I have continued to be annoyed towards him and harped on him over his every little action? If I have to sound a little encouraging to get an inactive player to contribute and to keep him from ragesubbing and making the atmosphere of this game worse, is this such a bad thing? Is it scummy?

Next, the line about FFM immediately following the Paper vote completely rubs me the wrong way. "FFM came back and responded but he's not off the hook" gives license to have any possible read on FFM in the future (it opens up both "yeah his responses were fine so i think he's town" and "he's not talking about current events he's scum").

Because that's literally how I felt about him and his content at that point in time? He came back and responded. Giving credit where credit is due. But he was STILL far from being townie or making me happy with his slot considering the amount of time that he spent defending himself and not enough scum hunting or looking at recent activities. You're acting like town ALWAYS has a SOLID opinion on EVERYONE at ALL TIMES.

It almost feels like a little unnecessary thing thrown in to justify moving her vote off FFM, even though the Paperblade case was fairly solid (moreso than the FFM one IMO). It's worth noting that this is the third vote on the Paper wagon (third and fourth votes are, in my experience, the places where scum hide because it's just early enough where it doesn't look like shipping).

At this point I'm convinced you're just pulling reasons out of your ass to put suspicion on everything I do.

On a slightly more serious note, calling me a hypocrite is a shitty defense for this reason

That's not a defense. I'm calling your statement out as hypocritical.

"If you think I'm the only one..." is a shitty defense because other people doing it doesn't make it not bad. never mind that i was apparently wrong

See above response earlier with regards to "if you think I'm the only one" statement, which is NOT a defense.

"i'm not interested in pursuing junko" why?

Because I felt like after ED1 he was putting in effort and scum hunting to the best of his abilities and I swear I mentioned this already.

psych stuff - pointless post; rolespec without a conclusion drawn is just distracting

You're bad at catching onto the implication that I thought Psych was lying scum.

My conclusion is that you just want me to be scum so badly you're going to pull every excuse you can to paint my every actions and interactions in a scummy light to the point of ignoring critical things. It's also rather telling that you spent so much time compiling stuff on me while everyone else in your post except for FFM is basically "lol". Even if I'm only "null" to you, it seems like you have more of a reason to be suspicious of me than Junko/Baldrick.

[bladescape]

@bladescape; if you weren't going to share your thoughts on junko I don't see the point of bringing him up in the first place. If you were, and you didn't expect me to answer them, there's no reason to wait for me to settle in before you share them. I don't like letting slots off the hook because they subbed out because it encourages subbing out tactically.

You're kinda missing the point. I was always going to share the points, and you probably weren't going to be able to respond to them. The point is that addressing the slot puts the person subbing in under pressure EVEN if they aren't going to/supposed to answer. I was never going to withhold the info.

And no, it doesn't encourage subbing out tactically, because I wasn't letting you off the hook so much as letting you get the first wave of stuff out of the road before having that there. I can't think of a single instance where this gives the subbee an advantage unless it's a few hours before the deadline. In which case whether or not they're being lynched should make the matter pointless anyhow.

Look, I'm sorry for starting all these arguments, but it's a little bit of courtesy I'm not going to let go of. :/

[bladescape]

I just have one question. How can Cam call my half-snappy post benign?

I don't like that post by Cam at all, starting at text wall when he has no energy to read my stuff, and ending at painting Boros with rainbows.

And the middle ground is the odd poke towards Darros

And curious about Joo being right there.

[bladescape]

Joo being right there as in added onto the end just to paint a townread on.

Pre-post edit: Nevermind. I shouldn't read much into that, he's just going down the list. Derp.

[Shin]

"It's been raining cats and dogs, mate. The streets are flooded an' all that, can't even walk the dog let alone watch the footy! But, it's been the best weather we've seen all year!"

Psych (4): Boron, Shinori, bladescape, Psych

Cam (3): FFM, Prims, Psych

Makaze (2): Darros, Eury

Darros (1): Baldrick

Eury (1): Kay

Junko (1): Cam

Not voting: j00

Big Ben says there are 35 and a bit hours left in the phase! With 13 alive, 5 votes are required for a lynch and 8 for the hammer! Phase ends at 16/6 23:00 GMT+0.

[Shin]

Ignore the previous votals!

Psych (4): Boron, Shinori, bladescape, Makaze

Cam (3): FFM, Prims, Psych

Makaze (2): Darros, Eury

Darros (1): Baldrick

Eury (1): Kay

Junko (1): Cam

Not voting: j00

Big Ben says there are 35 and a bit hours left in the phase! With 13 alive, 5 votes are required for a lynch and 8 for the hammer! Phase ends at 16/6 23:00 GMT+0.

[Baldrick]

Its wall-to-wall combat! Boron probably already covered much of this but I'll be damned if I'm letting my work go to waste for that reason.

[spoiler=@cam]

ignores other things going on simultaneously

Afaict, at that time the darros/junko interaction was the flavour of the month. What exactly was she ignoring?

all I can see of the case there is "FFM voted me for doing things that other people are doing"

This is an oversimplification. The thrust of her argument seems to be How is that different or any more scummier that what other people are doing? He didnt give any reasons as to why she was worse than others. Its the same thing as the case you make latter, shes not excusing herself, shes pointing out a double standard.

which is something that FFM never actually accused her of?

He did

I really don't get why darros refusing to vote made him scum

(I figure you mean scummy, correct me if Ive got it wrong) It's better to put it on someone instead of just not having it anywhere completely. Do you disagree with this?

(third and fourth votes are, in my experience, the places where scum hide because it's just early enough where it doesn't look like sheeping)

Tbh this seems arbitrary to me

null

Uh oh you called boron the n-word you better run while you still can

except he ends by voting Boron? Wat

What exactly do you find wrong with it?

CONCLUSION: Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy are you doing this in alphabetical order?

[Baldrick]

all the COOL people are reading the thread rn

oops I ignored @bladescape; Fair enough. Let's AtD because it's not really relevant to scumhunting.

[Prims]

FFM, Darros, j00: where are you guys? Feel like you haven't really done anything today.

I think blade's recent content has been alright. Cam, what's with the unevenly distributed effort in your ISO re-reads? (compare Darros and Boron sections for example)

[CT075]

i haven't even read anything that was bigger than two lines since my last post

[spoiler=Junko/Bal]"what's wrong with a random vote", "but why vote in the first place" - everyone knows my thoughts on this exchange, pointless line of questioning that never gets followed up or goes anywhere

"I don't recall voting Darros" - i didn't say he voted darros, passive aggressive response and doesn't respond

"not sure about darros" - wall sitting

"hypocritical" isn't a defense

"what exactly is wrong with calling someone out" - doesn't go anywhere with the answer

[http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3141243]"any thoughts on other players"[/url] - not useful and never follows up

"meh not happy with it" - "all these other people are doing the same scummy things i'm doing why are you going after me" i don't even know who he was responding to but of the other two he mentioned boron at least followed up on her pressure and idek about walrein

#81 and the next few posts are all really just asking random questions, which culminates in an FFM vote for reasons completely unrelated to what he's been asking about

this post is probably the closest thing to what i want(ed) from him

next few still doesn't follow them up)

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148648%5D"I reread FFM's new defense post on D1 and I feel he justified himself better which I will explain later"%5B/url%5D - never comes back to it

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148692%5Duseless spec%5B/url%5D

rest of things he said before subbing are alright, except he completely avoids answering my question

CONCLUSION - Pressures Darros early without ever following up, when called on it the response is "well these other people are also doing these scummy things" and still doesn't explain why it isn't bad. most of rest of posts are random questions that (i can't stress this enough) both don't go anywhere and aren't elaborated on when pressed. I don't know how people don't find this shitty, he offers very few reads of his own and instead is just randomly inquisitive which makes him blend in.

Baldrick's stuff is mostly fine (really cannot bf to read the response wall) but I want to lynch Junko anyway.

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Kay%5Dwow kay hasn't posted anything

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3144933%5D"Darros is scummy... for the panicky defensiveness about everything"%5B/url%5D - This is actually really good and is probably the best darros case i've seen yet

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149367%5DEury vote%5B/url%5D has an alright justification but there isn't much explanation for anything else going on

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3151336%5Dsingle D2 post%5B/url%5D "why even mention bladescape" because his name is alphabetically first

Conclusion gut town%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Makaze%5Di already ripped through half of his D1 posts anyway so i'm gonna skip those

Start of D2 posts are all mostly SK spec which is bad. Then it's followed up by a %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148575%5Dmention%5B/url%5D of Eury out of nowhere ("they are drowning the thread in wallposts") - That's not the kind of claim you can make without context.

The %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148583%5DPsych vote%5B/url%5D is fine, then a %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148587%5Drebuttal%5B/url%5D to Eury consists of self-spec (useless) and some other stuff that isn't convincing - "I have %5Bread your ISO%5D, and carefully at that" means nothing unless you point out where in particular the behavior you're quoting happened

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148633%5D"You guys are using your guts way too much"%5B/url%5D is self-spec and AtE

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148647%5D"Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum"%5B/url%5D - I feel really badly about throwing "confirmed scum" around when the only people with confirmed alignments are those in their graves

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148671"It's clear I can't scumhunt without riling feathers"%5B/url%5D - That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148712%5Dreaction test%5B/url%5D is alright (though I disagree with the method)

lot of other posts are arguing about who brought the ITP up which is pointless

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148811%5Dthis post%5B/url%5D (and the next one) is fine but I disagree with some of the logic (inactivity isn't a scumtell unless you catch them reading the thread, and then Eury is cleared "for having good arguments" but scum can have good arguments too)

I'm not going to get into the Psych fiasco because that was dumb and I don't know what to make of it

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149001%5Dthis%5B/url%5D is fine

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149069%5Drequest to me%5B/url%5D is decent (if useless), response to Prims is alright

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149308%5D"They've acted squarely in the interests of town"%5B/url%5D - that's the kind of thing you can't just throw out there without giving particulars

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&page=24#entry3149332%5D"junko is confirmed town"%5B/url%5D - Do you know something I don't? I don't see any role information that proves that Junko is town?

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149340%5DPaper not knowing who Junko is%5B/url%5D is a decent point but I don't think we can conclude that Junko is town from that (we don't know what happened in the scum chat... or do you?). For all we know, Paper didn't bother checking the scum chat, or the quicktopic had him as "junko" (which doesn't immediately follow to "DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY"), or it was a scum group PM ("DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY" also does not immediatelly follow to "junko"), or he was just lying.

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3150293%5D"more obvious scum"%5B/url%5D such as? I also disagree that my voting junko is weak (nobias)

rest of it is fine (i'm not going to talk about the most recent psych vote because there's no way i can keep that unbiased)

Conclusion is null (gut town), there are some really good posts that are villagery and some really weird posts that aren't.

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Prims%5DPrims' stuff is fine and I don't know if prims would really hardpush a buddy like that on D1

if anything prims isn't being crazy as usual and that's bothering me but i wouldn't be able to push it

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Psych%5Dpsych's content posts up to %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3141663%5Dhere%5B/url%5D are fine, then that shinori vote is weird as fuck (mentioned that kay is weird and junko is weird but instead decides to inactivity vote????)

stuff in between is okay

Jumps %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3145740%5Don%5B/url%5D, then %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3145751%5Doff%5B/url%5D the paperblade wagon for non game-related reasons ("it's not fair to lynch someone who isn't here")

then there's psych's claim which is stupid as either alignment

recent votes on me i feel are just to push a counterwagon but me-centric logic so whatever

CONCLUSION - probably stupid town

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Shinori%5D%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3142386'>Wall #1 is fine although didn't link to numbered posts therefore scum #lynch

after that shinori's effort disappeared and i'm having trouble getting anything out of his other posts

CONCLUSION lazy ???

[spoiler=Eury]Ha, NOPE

walrein's stuff was fine and i don't get how people thought he was being sheepy

[CT075]

fuck me half of that post disappeared

[CT075]

thank god for clipboard

[spoiler=Junko/Bal]"what's wrong with a random vote", "but why vote in the first place" - everyone knows my thoughts on this exchange, pointless line of questioning that never gets followed up or goes anywhere

"I don't recall voting Darros" - i didn't say he voted darros, passive aggressive response and doesn't respond

"not sure about darros" - wall sitting

"hypocritical" isn't a defense

"what exactly is wrong with calling someone out" - doesn't go anywhere with the answer

[http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3141243]"any thoughts on other players"[/url] - not useful and never follows up

"meh not happy with it" - "all these other people are doing the same scummy things i'm doing why are you going after me" i don't even know who he was responding to but of the other two he mentioned boron at least followed up on her pressure and idek about walrein

#81 and the next few posts are all really just asking random questions, which culminates in an FFM vote for reasons completely unrelated to what he's been asking about

this post is probably the closest thing to what i want(ed) from him

next few still doesn't follow them up)

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148648%5D"I reread FFM's new defense post on D1 and I feel he justified himself better which I will explain later"%5B/url%5D - never comes back to it

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148692%5Duseless spec%5B/url%5D

rest of things he said before subbing are alright, except he completely avoids answering my question

CONCLUSION - Pressures Darros early without ever following up, when called on it the response is "well these other people are also doing these scummy things" and still doesn't explain why it isn't bad. most of rest of posts are random questions that (i can't stress this enough) both don't go anywhere and aren't elaborated on when pressed. I don't know how people don't find this shitty, he offers very few reads of his own and instead is just randomly inquisitive which makes him blend in.

Baldrick's stuff is mostly fine (really cannot bf to read the response wall) but I want to lynch Junko anyway.

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Kay%5Dwow kay hasn't posted anything

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3144933%5D"Darros is scummy... for the panicky defensiveness about everything"%5B/url%5D - This is actually really good and is probably the best darros case i've seen yet

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149367%5DEury vote%5B/url%5D has an alright justification but there isn't much explanation for anything else going on

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3151336%5Dsingle D2 post%5B/url%5D "why even mention bladescape" because his name is alphabetically first

Conclusion gut town%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Makaze%5Di already ripped through half of his D1 posts anyway so i'm gonna skip those

Start of D2 posts are all mostly SK spec which is bad. Then it's followed up by a %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148575%5Dmention%5B/url%5D of Eury out of nowhere ("they are drowning the thread in wallposts") - That's not the kind of claim you can make without context.

The %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148583%5DPsych vote%5B/url%5D is fine, then a %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148587%5Drebuttal%5B/url%5D to Eury consists of self-spec (useless) and some other stuff that isn't convincing - "I have %5Bread your ISO%5D, and carefully at that" means nothing unless you point out where in particular the behavior you're quoting happened

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148633%5D"You guys are using your guts way too much"%5B/url%5D is self-spec and AtE

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148647%5D"Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum"%5B/url%5D - I feel really badly about throwing "confirmed scum" around when the only people with confirmed alignments are those in their graves

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148671"It's clear I can't scumhunt without riling feathers"%5B/url%5D - That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148712%5Dreaction test%5B/url%5D is alright (though I disagree with the method)

lot of other posts are arguing about who brought the ITP up which is pointless

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3148811%5Dthis post%5B/url%5D (and the next one) is fine but I disagree with some of the logic (inactivity isn't a scumtell unless you catch them reading the thread, and then Eury is cleared "for having good arguments" but scum can have good arguments too)

I'm not going to get into the Psych fiasco because that was dumb and I don't know what to make of it

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149001%5Dthis%5B/url%5D is fine

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149069%5Drequest to me%5B/url%5D is decent (if useless), response to Prims is alright

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149308%5D"They've acted squarely in the interests of town"%5B/url%5D - that's the kind of thing you can't just throw out there without giving particulars

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&page=24#entry3149332%5D"junko is confirmed town"%5B/url%5D - Do you know something I don't? I don't see any role information that proves that Junko is town?

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3149340%5DPaper not knowing who Junko is%5B/url%5D is a decent point but I don't think we can conclude that Junko is town from that (we don't know what happened in the scum chat... or do you?). For all we know, Paper didn't bother checking the scum chat, or the quicktopic had him as "junko" (which doesn't immediately follow to "DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY"), or it was a scum group PM ("DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY" also does not immediatelly follow to "junko"), or he was just lying.

%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3150293%5D"more obvious scum"%5B/url%5D such as? I also disagree that my voting junko is weak (nobias)

rest of it is fine (i'm not going to talk about the most recent psych vote because there's no way i can keep that unbiased)

Conclusion is null (gut town), there are some really good posts that are villagery and some really weird posts that aren't.

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Prims%5DPrims' stuff is fine and I don't know if prims would really hardpush a buddy like that on D1

if anything prims isn't being crazy as usual and that's bothering me but i wouldn't be able to push it

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Psych%5Dpsych's content posts up to %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3141663%5Dhere%5B/url%5D are fine, then that shinori vote is weird as fuck (mentioned that kay is weird and junko is weird but instead decides to inactivity vote????)

stuff in between is okay

Jumps %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3145740%5Don%5B/url%5D, then %5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3145751%5Doff%5B/url%5D the paperblade wagon for non game-related reasons ("it's not fair to lynch someone who isn't here")

then there's psych's claim which is stupid as either alignment

recent votes on me i feel are just to push a counterwagon but me-centric logic so whatever

CONCLUSION - probably stupid town

%5B/spoiler%5D

%5Bspoiler=Shinori%5D%5Burl=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3142386'>Wall #1 is fine although didn't link to numbered posts therefore scum #lynch

after that shinori's effort disappeared and i'm having trouble getting anything out of his other posts

CONCLUSION lazy ???

[spoiler=Eury]Ha, NOPE

walrein's stuff was fine and i don't get how people thought he was being sheepy

[CT075]

wait what the fuck it's literall ythere in the editor but doesn't appear in the post

[CT075]

i haven't even read anything that was bigger than two lines since my last post

[spoiler=Junko/Bal]"what's wrong with a random vote", "but why vote in the first place" - everyone knows my thoughts on this exchange, pointless line of questioning that never gets followed up or goes anywhere

"I don't recall voting Darros" - i didn't say he voted darros, passive aggressive response and doesn't respond

"not sure about darros" - wall sitting

"hypocritical" isn't a defense

"what exactly is wrong with calling someone out" - doesn't go anywhere with the answer

[http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=3141243%5D"any thoughts on other players"[/url] - not useful and never follows up

"meh not happy with it" - "all these other people are doing the same scummy things i'm doing why are you going after me" i don't even know who he was responding to but of the other two he mentioned boron at least followed up on her pressure and idek about walrein

#81 and the next few posts are all really just asking random questions, which culminates in an FFM vote for reasons completely unrelated to what he's been asking about

this post is probably the closest thing to what i want(ed) from him

next few ask better questions (although he still doesn't follow them up)

"I reread FFM's new defense post on D1 and I feel he justified himself better which I will explain later" ask better questions (although he still doesn't follow them up)

"I reread FFM's new defense post on D1 and I feel he justified himself better which I will explain later" - never comes back to it

useless spec

rest of things he said before subbing are alright, except he completely avoids answering my question

CONCLUSION - Pressures Darros early without ever following up, when called on it the response is "well these other people are also doing these scummy things" and still doesn't explain why it isn't bad. most of rest of posts are random questions that (i can't stress this enough) both don't go anywhere and aren't elaborated on when pressed. I don't know how people don't find this shitty, he offers very few reads of his own and instead is just randomly inquisitive which makes him blend in.

Baldrick's stuff is mostly fine (really cannot bf to read the response wall) but I want to lynch Junko anyway.

[spoiler=Kay]wow kay hasn't posted anything

"Darros is scummy... for the panicky defensiveness about everything" - This is actually really good and is probably the best darros case i've seen yet

Eury vote has an alright justification but there isn't much explanation for anything else going on

single D2 post "why even mention bladescape" because his name is alphabetically first

Conclusion gut town

[spoiler=Makaze]i already ripped through half of his D1 posts anyway so i'm gonna skip those

Start of D2 posts are all mostly SK spec which is bad. Then it's followed up by a mention of Eury out of nowhere ("they are drowning the thread in wallposts") - That's not the kind of claim you can make without context.

The Psych vote is fine, then a rebuttal to Eury consists of self-spec (useless) and some other stuff that isn't convincing - "I have [read your ISO], and carefully at that" means nothing unless you point out where in particular the behavior you're quoting happened

"You guys are using your guts way too much" is self-spec and AtE

"Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum" - I feel really badly about throwing "confirmed scum" around when the only people with confirmed alignments are those in their graves

- That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

reaction test - That's really weird, why do you even care about riling feathers? What happened to "my self-preservation is none"? fuck, riling feathers is like the best way to scumhunt

reaction test is alright (though I disagree with the method)

lot of other posts are arguing about who brought the ITP up which is pointless

this post (and the next one) is fine but I disagree with some of the logic (inactivity isn't a scumtell unless you catch them reading the thread, and then Eury is cleared "for having good arguments" but scum can have good arguments too)

I'm not going to get into the Psych fiasco because that was dumb and I don't know what to make of it

this is fine

request to me is decent (if useless), response to Prims is alright

"They've acted squarely in the interests of town" - that's the kind of thing you can't just throw out there without giving particulars

"junko is confirmed town" - Do you know something I don't? I don't see any role information that proves that Junko is town?

Paper not knowing who Junko is is a decent point but I don't think we can conclude that Junko is town from that (we don't know what happened in the scum chat... or do you?). For all we know, Paper didn't bother checking the scum chat, or the quicktopic had him as "junko" (which doesn't immediately follow to "DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY"), or it was a scum group PM ("DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY" also does not immediatelly follow to "junko"), or he was just lying.

"more obvious scum" such as? I also disagree that my voting junko is weak (nobias)

rest of it is fine (i'm not going to talk about the most recent psych vote because there's no way i can keep that unbiased)

Conclusion is null (gut town), there are some really good posts that are villagery and some really weird posts that aren't.

[spoiler=Prims]Prims' stuff is fine and I don't know if prims would really hardpush a buddy like that on D1

if anything prims isn't being crazy as usual and that's bothering me but i wouldn't be able to push it

[spoiler=Psych]psych's content posts up to here are fine, then that shinori vote is weird as fuck (mentioned that kay is weird and junko is weird but instead decides to inactivity vote????)

stuff in between is okay

Jumps on, then off the paperblade wagon for non game-related reasons ("it's not fair to lynch someone who isn't here")

then there's psych's claim which is stupid as either alignment

recent votes on me i feel are just to push a counterwagon but me-centric logic so whatever

CONCLUSION - probably stupid town

[spoiler=Shinori]Wall #1 is fine although didn't link to numbered posts therefore scum #lynch

after that shinori's effort disappeared and i'm having trouble getting anything out of his other posts

CONCLUSION lazy ???

[spoiler=Eury]Ha, NOPE

walrein's stuff was fine and i don't get how people thought he was being sheepy

formatting sucks

[CT075]

Cam, what's with the unevenly distributed effort in your ISO re-reads? (compare Darros and Boron sections for example)

because writing up boron took me from 2 AM to 3:30

[j00]

I'm back, not in the best shape, but I'm gonna read the last few pages now.

The votals are wrong, my vote is currently on Darros, gonna leave it there until I finished a post

[Sunwoo]

Kind of tired, kind of busy, don't expect a lot from me today.

A lot of Cam's "conclusions" of players really bother me. "Lazy" (in terms of Shinori) means nothing in terms of alignment because both scum and town can be lazy. Is Shinori lazy town or lazy scum?

He has an awful lot of stuff to say about Makaze and me, only to call us "null" ("gut town" on Makaze is still a gut read, not a substantiated read), which feels like a cheap way to get out of giving a definite opinion. Cam's read on me also feels like he's leaning scum on me and not null.

The only link he gave on j00 (whom he is town reading, so not much point in going into depth about your town reads) expresses an opinion that j00 later took back, which makes it feels like he only really read her D1 content (especially since he made it sound like she says things that he agrees with, except expresses it better).

Also, why is Junko your only actual given scum read? You never actually gave a conclusive opinion on FFM in his ISO blurb, and your conclusions on everyone else are one of "lol didn't read", "town in some manner", or "null". Your actual opinions on most players feels rather weak.

[Darros]

[spoiler=Darrps]HOENN INTENSIFIES - hoenn was a shitty-ass region dirty scum 2surf4me

darros is actually really okay, other than spending multiple posts arguing (pointlessly) about ITP etc (i explained why itpspec is shitty af)

CONCLLUSION - darros am i scum?

[spoiler=flashy gifs]

first of all fuck u

And honestly I think you aren't and the only thing that was really scummy about you is tap dancing around my question and a couple ignoring questions, but you seem to have addressed everything now so. Also your Nexus claim doesn't line up with scum IMO.

> Makaze, Boron, Darros - I want your opinions on the other two, as well as on Prims vs BBM from D1.

At this point if you don't know my opinion on Makaze I'm going to accuse you of not reading the thread. I think Boron is town, she's been doing a lot of scumhunting if you ask me. I already talked about Prims vs BBM as well, I thought Prims was kind of scummy for it, but he brought up that he basicaly started the wagon on Paperblade, which I don't think is something scum would do. I saw what you said about "maybe Paperblade would say 'ayy im busy just lynch me for towncred'" but that was before he said he had RL issues in thread ((him being busy was his last post so)) so I don't really think that logic makes too much sense. I think Prims is town. Edited June 15, 2014 by eclipse
Four of them is triggering the beginnings of my migraines (never mind people who have worse problems with flashy things)

[Darros]

oh my god part of my post got eaten again im going to fucking scream

[Darros]

FFM, Darros, j00: where are you guys? Feel like you haven't really done anything today.

Darros is still scummy for his D1 AtE defensiveness, I totally forgot he was playing.

Darros is apparently the person who's posts I skim or skip over all game this game so I'll have to read over his stuff later

[spoiler=me this game apparently]

also

I said

like

three times

that i was gonna be out

The timing and reasoning of the FFM unvote feel strange. One effort post shouldn't change your opinion that much, the vote patterns at that time mean it could have been trying to make Paper's wagon look less prominent, if that makes any sense.

The last comment in this post is rather caustic and he didn't activate sarcasm mode, OOC for him.

His reaction to Psych's claim was OTT, and this post gives me the impression he was trying to subtly fish for it. Quoting Psych talking about his role and saying "You've been asked for more than that" is ambiguous and saying "Makaze thinks you're confirmed scum" is actually applying some serious pressure by painting the situation as being more critical than it actually was.

Why did you use the words of your scumread like that?

this is the third fucking time im writing up this part of the post i s2g

Bold: Honestly FFM didn't feel protown until that point, but when he made that post he started scumhunting and actualy contributing to the town. Maybe it's gut but I did feel neutral about him after that.

Italic: I get that we haven't talked in a long time but you can't remember me being sarcastic/sassy? :<

Underline: no idea what OTT is so ??????????????????????????????????????????? I wasn't trying to rolefish. "You've been asked for more than that" refers to content posts, actual reads, etc. Seven words at that point in time ain't cutting it. And I think it's pretty damn serious considering Makaze seemed absolutely sold on Psych, and Psych didn't even bother defending himself. That's not normal!

Bladescape seems extremely waffly wrt me, there's been no solid opinion there yet.