Batmafia!!! Game Over

[Baldrick]

Right, that part wasn't a joke.

Sniper, why did you scan Mancer?

[Mitsuki]

When in doubt, lynch your mom [Votals 2.3]

Clarinets (3): Refa, Baldrick, Green Poet
Mancer (2): Yoloswag, Proto
Gaius (1): Mancer
Sniper Knight (1): Balcerzak
Tiny Goddess (1): Gaius

Not voting: Tiny Goddess, JBCWK, Clarinets, Izhuark, J, Dreamer, Sniper Knight

Less than 12 hours until the birth of The Batbaby! So exciting! It takes 8 votes to lynch someone.

[Tiny_Manakete]

Will make a better post once I get back from school so for now this will do... :S Sorry.

Looking back at Dreamer's most recent post, they make me feel a little better about her. I'm still a little iffy on her as a whole, but I'm putting her lower on lynch priority.

Sniper Knight's posts are... null, slightly leaning town. I don't have any reason to lynch her at the moment because it feels genuine how she claimed her night actions.[? Someone can clarify] but she still hasn't posted too often /not a lot of content in them so it's kinda teeter-totter, meaning it could go both ways.

Clarinets, I feel like he's sorta town reading everyone, if you know what I mean... Like, he has no definite opinion on who might be scum or not. Also the fact that he currently has no scum readings on anybody hits a nerve. I don't think it'll make us advance if he continues like this, so he needs to gather more evidence and make a case. Would sheep Baldrick's case on Clarinets.

[ZoesMad]

People need to show up for a lynch soon. I won't be home until ~3 hours before deadline since school is kinda a thing.

TG, I'd like to see a defense as to why we shouldn't lynch you.

GP, we don't even know what the results that clear Mancer are, and I'm not willing to drop everything on that case until its made more clear why he isn't scum, esp when we have a cop variant flipped already.

[Mitsuki]

Blitz and Proto are now a hydra!

Proto won't be able to post for a while due to irl circumstances. Blitz's activity may be limited.

[Blitz]

heya guys, I am back! (or not really)

like Mitsuki said, I will kinda be busy with rl stuff, since my uncles are coming over and that will take a lot of time out of me. I will kinda just be the stand in guy till Proto gets back with his PC fixed (which is busted atm).

Anyways, off to read!

[Refa]

YES BLITZ

(I'm sure that YES BLITZ is a significant portion of my game thoughts that are being communicated through GIF)

I was unwilling to vote mancer because unlike Diego he made the game advance in some way and was asking some good question whereas Diego posts were mainly complaining. Well since FE9 mafia every time someone with a big wagon on him disappear in the middle of day 1 everybody seemed to consider it was scum who abandoned and it was true so i saw no reason for Diego to not at least react to the wagon that was building on him. (i checked he came on SF between his last post and at least 10 hour before the deadline).

Fair enough. I never realized that Diego was on right before he got lynched, which just makes the whole thing more frustrating really.

@Clarinets You still haven't responded to my case on you. Get to it. I like your read on YOLO (as it shows some initiative on your part), but overall you just come across as actively refusing to participate. Several people have had to repeat their questions/querries at you (Sniper Knight and me, not sure if there were any others) before you did anything about it. Balcerzak made a good point about his attitude at phase end, which came across as flippant. It's less the action that's scummy and more the motivation behind it (also his explanation doesn't really make me feel better about said motivation). Additionally, you don't have any scumreads (not scummy, you suffered from a lack of scumreads in RBO if I'm not mistaken) and you're not doing anything about it (yeah, so basically sheeping Baldrick's thoughts on this part). Moving you above Mancer on my lynch priority because you're making no effort to do anything while at least Mancer was actively helping to move the game forward. Only thing that gives me doubts about this is Mancer being inactive for significant portions of the game (most concerning is the D1 deadline, why are people inactive during the deadline ;/), but apparently he's busy IRL so I'm not going to bitch at him for this.

@Dreamer I have a Posting Restriction. Also I agree with Proto's reply to you (that Mancer not voting Diego yesterday isn't indicative of his alignment), but more than that, I don't like how you're not following up on your cases/actions from yesterday (which read as good to me, anyways). Why is that?

@Mancer Don't really have anything to say about your first reads post because not much is different other than a slight scumread on YOLO (because you think he's tunneling you, which he was so I'm fine with that). It doesn't change my read on you.

@Baldrick Mancer case isn't based on him being jumpy but moreso with his actual cases being mediocre and him misrepresenting some of the facts to make those opinions (especially with his Proto one, you should ISO Proto's replies). Actually you make a good point about Balcerzak, I'll reread those cases later on.

@Lord Gaius What do you think about what I said about Tiny playing a similar way to her last game? Asking you this because I'd ordinarily scumread her because of her waffling hard (in addition to what other people have said), but her play is basically mirroring her play in that game (so now I'm townreading her, what a turnabout).

@Sniper Knight I don't get what role you could have that would clear Mancer considering that the cop flipped. Also the basis for your Balcerzak vote is flawed; him getting voted and then voting someone else is not sufficient basis for a scumread in a game where town is expected to vote.

@YOLO Thanks for that post, it's helped me to get a better read on you overall. Also regarding your Dreamer case, I never actually thought of that when I was going through her posts myself. Going to have to do a reread there as well.

@Balcerzak Would sheep your Dreamer case (it's mostly based on D1 but Dreamer hasn't actually done anything today to warrant changing that case). I...have no idea what that post from Dreamer was trying to convey either. You're better off just getting an answer from the source at this point. Also yeah, me volunteering for a PR was less me being like "yeah, this action will benefit town" and more "getting a PR will motivate me to make more posts"; not particularly alignment relevant. Also fair enough regarding your Corinthian vote.

@Green Poet I don't get your Clarinets vote, did you have a scumread on him before that I missed? Asking because I don't believe you've said anything about the slot before.

@Lord Gaius If you're fine with voting Mancer and won't be back until three hours before deadline...why aren't you voting Mancer? Feels like a disconnect between your words and your actions.

You know, I've gotten a lot of angry fan letters decrying my dismissal of the SB x BBM ship. That's understandable, sheep do have a hard time understanding the grand plans of the shepherd (of which I am the son of). You see, BBM can't be with SB because he's too busy being with his true love, Shinori. Just as BBM can't quit mafia, Shinori can't quit drinking and they both certainly can't quit each other if you know what I mean. ;) It's a great ship because it's incredibly plausible. For one, they both live on the western hemisphere, which means they could definitely be in a relationship. Secondly, they both vent out their anger in mafia games a lot so they have more time for lovin' when it comes to each other. Finally, they've both probably read Hamlet sometime in their life, which is Shakespeare's most romantic work. That somehow implies that they should be together! If you're still reading this and are not convinced, just pay me a small fee of $9999.99 and I'll write a 1000 word essay explaining further, using those three points as my thesis.

[Refa]

Get hype for the lynch priority, which I'm putting in a seperate post so that it's more easily seen. You know what else needs to be more easily seen? The obvious budding romance of YOLO and Weapons. Both of them are utterly incomprehensible at times, which just means that we can't understand them but they can understand each other. ;) You'd think them not being acquainted at all would hinder potential relationships, but that is because you have learned nothing from my previous ships, you dunce.

SSG > Mancer > Dreamer

If you don't know why my lynch priority is this, then you clearly haven't been reading my posts.

[Refa]

Oh yeah, Sniper, I'd like for you to give me a list of the top three people you'd be okay with lynching and why.

But I can understand why your head isn't in the game. It's clearly because you're too busy shacking up with Tiny Goddess. Why do I say this? Because I have no idea who you people are, and the only reason I can know for someone not to become acquainted with the greatness that is me is if they were in a budding romance. Also, I'm pretty sure Cupid was a Sniper (or was it Bow Knight), so this just adds more credence to my claims. Additionally, both of you haven't made a reads post in forever, which just proves that you're too busy to play mafia! Get a room already, jeez. 'Tis the season and all that.

[spoiler=My Inner Turmoil]

Oh god, I regret making Twitter posts with a PR so much. Why didn't I just put all of my thoughts into one post...

[Jaybee]

looks like nothing has changed since 2013; mancer still comes off as scum to everybody regardless of his actual alignment

also phase ends at a really shitty time for mancer and i so yeah this may not be the best (6:30am)

ok serious grammar time

---

Clarinets isn't actually doing anything particularly scummy... though I guess Clarinets isn't doing anything at all. I don't think lynching Clarinets would do very much without another post, tbh.

I don't get such an early 'claim' on Sniper? Even if Mancer was at a super high risk of getting lynched, is it necessarily worth outing yourself for that? If Sniper is an investigative role, he's likely to get targeted - though if he's something else (like Neighbour or something, idk) then I guess that's a bit more acceptable. Based on the role alone, more likely to be town, but I'm more confused by the decision to clear Mancer so early than anything.

@Bal, if you're going to point out Tiny for not using her vote, what about Dreamer? Agree with YOLO that they fall into a pretty similar boat of having a lot of words but not saying very much of value.

@GP, I'm assuming that your entire reasoning for taking your vote off Mancer is Sniper's claim and your subsequent thoughts regarding their alignment, correct?

---

It really doesn't feel like there's very much to go on, urgh. So in the meantime, ##Vote: Baldrick.

Asking people for scumreads in a fairly aggressive tone does not work if you have no "solid reads" yourself.

[Balcerzak]

I'm on my morning 15, but I don't have time to fully catch up. I will do so over lunch break. I cannot guarantee I will make deadline, which is roughly 1:15 after my afternoon 15, but I will see whatI can do if needed.

[Refa]

Remember when I ragged on Mancer for not being on at deadline? Pepperidge Farms remembers. Anyways, turns out that I might not be able to make deadline myself.

So uh yeah, fair warning. Also can people please vote someone who's actually going to get lynched? It's great that you have your own original the cases but we're around five hours before deadline and the biggest wagon has a whopping 3 votes on it.

Also don't have the time to make another super amazing ship post, so let's just go with explaining why the classic Paperblade x Kaoz is totally legit. They both make five word posts on a consistent basis, they both have imposing avatars, and if you combine their names you get Chaos Blade. Nothing says "love" like vague similarities on an internet forum and amalgamations of names to get goofy ship names.

[Jaybee]

I'm willing to switch over to Clarinets for the sake of consolidation but I don't think it'll provide us with a ton of info. Ah well. I had a ton of naps so I'm probably not sleeping for a while.

[Blitz]

looks like nothing has changed since 2013; mancer still comes off as scum to everybody regardless of his actual alignment

I am not nearly close enough to finish reading the thread, but, this post kinda bugs me. JB, could you explain why you think you needed to add the part regardless of his alignment?

[Dreamer]

Green Poet: The whole thing about him is hard te explain. But i’m going to try anyway.

The whole idea of him being a scum changed a lot. Sometimes a thought he was a scum, a few houres later i changed my opinion competely.

So what? Did something change?

Since yesterday i felt that, ennoying, feeling the whole time. The feeling that tells me that he is a scum.

The hard part?

I’ve no evidence to support this. I can not even tell were that feeling is from. I can qoute a lot of phrases and say by all of them they it could be scummy, but that would give me nothing, neither the people wo are currently reading this.

What are you going to do?

I can not make a strong case. Not even a weak one. I think i’m going to leave it for this day, and come back later. And maybe my whole opinion about him will change completely. I don’t know. But i don’t want to start a case with no evidence or something like that. Even though i already did.

Balcerzak:

He is one of my town-readers. His posts looks geniune and his criticism is good too. The only problem i have with him is that he is someone who is very convincing. That’s not something bad. But it has a small change to become dangerous.

Baldrick:

His vote changed fast. And without a good explanation. I would like to hear more from him. For now he is neutral.

YOLOSWAG: I like his last post. He gave a good explanation for his Mancer vote and it didn’t feel like his way of saying things changed. He is on my neutral, leaning town list.

Tiny Godess: I don’t think i will be suprised is she is a mafia, neither i would suprised is she is a town. So she is currently neutral

Lord Gaius: He is one of my town reads and while his posts doesn’t have a lot of words in it. He proves that he is following the game closely. Well i think that his vote for Tiny godess is a bit fast, i can understand what he means.

JBCWK: I’m waiting for more, but his post was good. Neutral, leaning town

ClarinetsandOboes: His posts don’t say a lot. I would like to see a new #175. But for now he is neutral, leaning scum. Maybe i could even support the bandwagon against him.

Izhuark: Neutral. He knows how to explain things and i think he is able to look to everything from a different view. Even though i think he is neutral, i would not vote for him very fast.

Mancer: My opnion on him didn’t change since yesterday.

Proto and Blitz: They didn’t say a lot since day one. But they are neutral.

Refa: i still think she is a town. If she is not, then… well… Forget it. Solid town.

Sniper Knight: Wait wat? “Ik know from my role” I don’t think i get it. Were you serious? He is neutral. I would like to hear more for him.

So after this, i’m going to do what everybody hates and don’t vote yet. I have a few houres left, so i will just see what i can find in the meantime.

[Balcerzak]

Oh, one more thing.

I'm pretty convinced you're town at this point, but I'm also wondering why you're voting Sniper despite him more or less claiming an investigative. Is there something that made you particularly sure that at least one of the people voting Diego had to be scum? I understand the reasoning of elimination that led you to believe that Sniper was the one scum as opposed to the other four likely townies, just uncertain as to why there must be one scum.

Based on factors (weak cop flip, refa's mention of being couriered, etc.) I didn't find his claim believable. I'll grant optimal scum play would not be throwing all their eggs in one basket, but sometimes they make mistakes. It's also possible they could be scum, and would therefore know mancer is town, are relying on his flip today if lynched to go "haha I told you so". Then again, you're completely right, it's possible that the whole early wagon was town, especially if we accept the (somewhat shaky) premise that the whole mafia team flaked being responsible for the no night kill.

In light of these considerations, and in an effort to consolidate, I will move my vote to

##Unvote

##Vote: Clarinets

though I will continue monitoring Sniper closely.

[Jaybee]

I am not nearly close enough to finish reading the thread, but, this post kinda bugs me. JB, could you explain why you think you needed to add the part regardless of his alignment?

Because it's an observation I've made after playing with Mancer? Like, this manages to happen all the time, whether or not he's actually scum or he's a townie.

---

Let's go with the scenario Bal gave, that we have Scum!Sniper who isn't some form of an investigative town role. By outing Mancer as town (and I am assuming Mancer is town in this case because it would be pretty ballsy for scum to fakeclaim town and THEN fakeclear another mafia on D2), it probably saves Mancer from being lynched D2 - but what does that achieve? Knowing that Mancer is "cleared" town means he's likely not going to get lynched (if town accepts Sniper's claim), so scum has to kill Mancer eventually. And even if Mancer dies N2 or something (and comes up as town, validating Sniper's 'claim'), is it worth fakeclaiming for town cred on D2? Honestly, I can't see this being a good move.

On the other hand, I could perhaps understand if Town!Sniper has some way of knowing Mancer is town, whether it be another investigative role or masons or whatever fancy roles there are now, resulting in a bit of a panicked clear of Mancer in response to the fairly fast buildup of votes at the start of the phase.

[Jaybee]

rofl i forgot to vote

##Unvote: Baldrick

##Vote: Clarinets

[Blitz]

Would not consider voting Izuhark. Yeah, drawing attention to himself is bad, but there has to be a reason why he's doing it, plus with his, uh 'humor' if his role is as he says. Don't find anything scummy with roleclaiming early; even if his role is bad and he's telling the truth. His claim seems to be pretty genuine, however odd and random as it may be. Eh, but that information could be used against him. That said, I don't get the wagon on Izuhark. It was just because he was attempting to post in a humorous manner, which is annoying, but eh.

could you explain why drawing attention to self is bad and what you think his reasons were for drawing attention to himself?

Scums are not going to vote on each other on D1

Overal. I'm going to wait. I still think it is to early to say anything.

vote ##Balcerzak ( nothing to worry about.Just to prevent that Diego is going to be lynched and to make sure that i made a vote)

Why do you think scum are not going to vote on each other on D1. Going after a scumbuddy (better known as Bussing which SB is a pro at) can be a very good strategy too, to put dust on people's eyes to gain towncred.

Why are you voting Balcerzak and how is voting Balcerzak related to waiting?

Why do you have no content on Balcerzak before this post (please point me to it, if I am mistaken) and you decided to vote for him out of the blue?

Something about Dreamer's posting style bothers me. It's too...passive, like she's just watching the game from the sidelines without getting involved in herself. I get that she's a newer player (uh...right?), but this doesn't come across as how Newb!Town typically plays, waffling all over the place. She's just deliberately avoiding giving an opinion on almost anything, save for an associative read regarding me. I didn't comment on her earlier one because barely anything had happened and maybe she was busy or something; the latter shows that clearly she's been paying attention to the game and yet has no opinions or even thought process to speak of. Dreamer, if you had to say now, who are the two most likely people to flip town and scum? Bal vote was weird, but not alignment indicative...yet. If she was Diego's scumbuddy, I don't see why she'd waste time making a random vote when she could either 1) bus him or 2) vote Mancer*.

agreed. Though, to add to what you said, there is something about her play which seems to me like she is more trying her best to pass herself as a newbie over contributing.

YOLO any townreads? Or something other than pushing the two most heavily pursued players in the game rn? For meta reasons i'm inclined to go gut town because he's generally more careful when he's playing as scum and more image conscious, rather than pretty free flowing (Thousand Names is a good example.) Content is a strict null.

why do you feel Yolo needs to do townreads?

Who is J? Basically has less content than everyone else, unless I am mistaken and someone beat J to it.

@Dreamer, here you decided to put in the reads on a few players, but more than half of them were null reads, so, why did you think it was important to post these null reads? also, why did you think it was important to do a townread on Refa?

(before someone decides to call me out, I am not going to ask the same question to Clarine regarding this post because it feels more natural in the sense that it tries to get all the thoughts of all the players that have posted so far, compared to Dreamer, who seem to have made a quick patchwork to get some data out here.)

I'm not sure I'm on-board with Green Poet's insinuation about Dreamer, provided I connected the right dots, and Dreamer did fairly effectively shoot down the connecting point about the use of the word "mistake", though I would argue she also shot herself in the foot in a few other places in her recent post. I'm not sure how much of that is due to a language barrier or inexperience, or if I need to start seriously considering the possibility of scum!Dreamer.

I actually fail to see much of any new content from Dreamer, could you explain why you think what is new content from her (other than her clearing up what she did to Green Poet, that is)?

It's appreciated that you're examining this discrepancy, but as I don't understand the case (if there explicitly is one?) behind your vote, and we are nearing deadline, I'd suggest voting a scumread.

this is actually a fair point too.

I still have another 5 pages to read, but so far, I would like to lynch Dreamer, because I think Dreamer is scum.

##Unvote: (Mancer)

##Vote: Dreamer

(sorry Proto, I know you are scumreading Mancer, but, I don't think those tells are exactly scummy for Mancer without more stuff behind it, IMO.

Okay, I know this isn't exactly the most voted person out here, but IMO, she is the scummiest one and people should really help out with the lynch on her.

[Green Poet]

@GP, I'm assuming that your entire reasoning for taking your vote off Mancer is Sniper's claim and your subsequent thoughts regarding their alignment, correct?

Yes, that's correct.

@Green Poet I don't get your Clarinets vote, did you have a scumread on him before that I missed? Asking because I don't believe you've said anything about the slot before.

I had very briefly mentioned him during D1, saying that his reads list had been sheepish and safely played, presenting reads similar to what the most popular opinion toward each player had been at the time:

It read like noncommittal filler to me, actually. Doesn't read like bussing since no one will be crediting Corinthian for a Diego lynch if the latter flips scum. My read on Corinthian is the same as my read on Clarinets' - he's expressing townreads on people who have been active, null reads on people who have been controversial, and a scumread on the then-and-now leading wagon. There's general sheepiness here that accomplishes little and is suggestive of noncommittal scum.

I also think that his current lack of a vote is noncontributory and makes his slot worth lynching over Mancer.

Oh wait

##Unvote

Don't want my joke to have a negative effect on the Votals.

Unvoting from a joke vote is fine, when it is immediately replaced with the expected serious vote. That didn't happen.

[Mitsuki]

Sleep for 8 hours every night, brush your teeth, post three times a day [Votals 2.4]

Clarinets (5): Refa, Baldrick, Green Poet, Balcerzak, JBCWK
Dreamer (1): Blitz
Gaius (1): Mancer
Mancer (1): Yoloswag
Tiny Goddess (1): Gaius

Not voting: Tiny Goddess, Clarinets, Izhuark, J, Dreamer, Sniper Knight

2 hours until the birth of The Batbaby! Yay! It takes 8 votes to lynch someone.

[Green Poet]

We need three votes to be placed on Clarinets within the next two hours to avoid universal loss.

No other lynch is viable right now, because we cannot expect seven people to get online and shift their vote to Dreamer/Mancer/Gaius within these two hours. Regardless of your alignment, you should be voting Clarinets now.

[ZoesMad]

@Lord Gaius What do you think about what I said about Tiny playing a similar way to her last game? Asking you this because I'd ordinarily scumread her because of her waffling hard (in addition to what other people have said), but her play is basically mirroring her play in that game (so now I'm townreading her, what a turnabout).

@Lord Gaius If you're fine with voting Mancer and won't be back until three hours before deadline...why aren't you voting Mancer? Feels like a disconnect between your words and your actions.

Is the first game you're mentioning Mafia Sucks Mafia? I think that one game makes a lot of a difference, and we shouldn't dismiss the possibility of her being scum for similar play. There is also less wishy washy ness in some of her posts, and more conviction (imo.)

Because I wanted to see if TG would do anything with the pressure, and I mean, I still have time to vote for Mancer anyway.

BLITZ YES

@Biltz that was a push for YOLO to make content (Refa interrogated me about it already.)

I would like to lynch Dreamer, because I think Dreamer is scum.

THE BEST reasoning.

Looking at Mancer/Sniper interactions, unless a Tailor/Godfather/something that fucks up scans is in the mix, it's really hard to believe Mancer is scum. Assuming Scum!Sniper, it would ruin any credibility Mancer gained from getting "cleared", and if Sniper is town then he truly believes his results. (Assuming he's a cop, and this is the reason I'm still kinda sketchy on what went down, since we have a flipped cop.) Not removing my doubt as the case is still fine, but there's a lot of evidence with Sniper pointing against it.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Clarinets

I would prefer TG an that's clearly not happening, so this'll do.

[Baldrick]

@JB: I'm not pushing Clarinets for scumreads, I'm trying to lynch him. I did say I was going to consolidate.

@Dreamer: I switched because Balcerzak's reads were better and we need a majority lynch.

@Blitz: There's one and a half hours left in the phase, you should vote for a wagon.

@Green: Why did you specify those three and not Tiny?

[Green Poet]

@Green: Why did you specify those three and not Tiny?

Huh, it looks like I didn't see there was a vote on Tiny. My bad, I had thought it was just the other three.