Ensemble Mafia - N5

[Zkirsche]

Good lord this is gonna be a fun 4 hours of reading I can just tell.

@GP: Erm, he never took his vote off of Ryker and what appears to be much of his case is Mallow's lack of elaboration and sporadic inactivity. Please update your reads list because this is exactly the type of thing I was concerned about. You seem to miss details here and there and you don't seem to go deeper as to the why? Is it impossible for town to get so hung up over semantics that they form suspicion on them? Considering Spinal spent much of his discussion with Ryker supposedly arguing over semantics doesn't it seem like a consistent train of thought, simply bad logic then? Why can only scum make bad cases.

I saw quickly he doesn't like when people don't explain things, so I refused to explain things

This doesn't explain why you continued to refuse to explain anything after being called out on it by what feels like half the playerlist. Why did you ask Blitz to give his top three scumreads before your post? Could you please explain what purpose does that achieve?

Disagree with your Blitz case, arguing against an RVS case is exactly how you get out of RVS.

I assure you I haven't made any assumptions on your character. You have behaved in a certain way and there's a benefit to scum in behaving like that so I called it out (and it's not a matter of being able to it's what the biggest advantage for scum is). I've had this wriggling feeling that you and I were very similar and we definitely are, you play exactly as I did 2-3 years ago, down to inciting angry slapfights for the sake of escaping RVS and being all cocky and smug about it haha (eclipse will remember many a game of this well I'm sure ;p ). I have also done this as scum and used the pretense of RVS-escape to justify some rather outlandish behaviour however so you're gonna need more than this to quell my interest and I still expect answers to questions.

Many of the cases are criticising Mallow's content not the sparsity of his posts (Pretty sure we have a similar amount of posts yet I believe I have much more content), or rather, the sparsity of content in his posts. I believe YOLO is guilty of this and Yedi is a different beast entirely as they have been practically non-existant, which isn't quite the same thing. You also missed that I have talked about GP and I presumed Blitz too but it turns out when the forum ate my previous post I forgot to reinput that I liked Blitz's Mallow case my bad, I blame Chrome.

Talk to me about it if you have an issue. I'd rather not discuss it in a mafia game.

Willing to sort things out in a non-public setting Kreygasm ##Unvote this is getting uncanny. Am I sleep Mafia-ing?

I do not want to give an in-depth read on Rainbow/Proto because that is frankly a lot of effort at this point. I liked his arguments and the way he presented them when I read them, found nothing egregious and only things I found agreeable. The worst is probably the typo shit at a glance but I haven't really read that properly.

Elemina must be town because scum wouldn't try to lynch Refa in this gamestate, far easier targets to mislynch assuming Refa town if Elemina scum. Can't be bothered to read his case or his argument vs Refa, I'll do it tomorrow when it isn't 1 AM.

##Vote: Green Poet

My gut feeling that Ryker is just a clone of me is winning out against my annoyance at Green Poet's recent content. He's still not off the hook though, lynch priority:

GP > Ryker >> Mallow > Yolo

Would happily lynch either of Ryker/GP and could be persuaded to lynch Yolo/Mallow. Refa/Ryker/Elemina any chance you could comment on my GP thoughts?

Pedit:

who we knew wasn't gonna be back for 24 hours and a lot of guys would get away with doing nothing for the first 24 hours, with just the excuse of "I was waiting on Proto", which Yolo did after all...

@Ryker this is why we don't let "waiting for people" slide anymore because it's stifles discussion and is an easy pass for scum.

[Irony]

Ok, I think kirsche is a townie. I dunno if I suspected him previously, but his argument sounds reasonable and stuff.

[Irony]

Actually, I think I did suspect them, as he was on my "Inactive Six" List.

[Hober Mallow]

curious as to why hober mallow is continually trying to shift his conversations away from the active players. do you not like confrontation, or do you think all the major posters so far are town, or...? feels like you're trying to avoid committing to reads on people who may be around to call you out on them.

also, probably not important, but is there any reason I should be aware of that you're calling me "Green Tea"? I don't mind it, just curious if it's supposed to mean something special

Apologizes that it wasn't clear, but in my first post I stated that I liked all of the active posters sans you and Blitz. This phrase was equivalent to saying I had a town read on most of the players posting. Specifically I liked Elemina, Ryker, Spinal, and Irony.

I definitely do not mind confrontation. It's how the game is progressed after all. The discussion that was going on at the time though was, as you put it, fruitless. I put myself between Rainbow and Ryker, because I saw it going down the same path after Rainbow's #179, where he quoted every single one of Ryker's recent posts. Nitpicky pursuits like that tend to just clutter the thread. I wanted to stomp out that fire before it could even ignite.

I've been calling you Green Tea, because that's how I first read your name. I think it's because my mind reads the "te" before the "Po" in "Poet". This, coupled with the type of green that is used for the SF backdrop, make me think of green tea ice cream when I'm browsing the thread and see your name.

[Hober Mallow]

I'm in the middle of doing ISOs. I see you viewing the thread Elemina. I just wanted to let you know that your request has been noted before you ask me a third time.

[Sunwoo]

I'm here now, so I can do the ISOs.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

reading this tomorrow

[Hober Mallow]

I'm here now, so I can do the ISOs.

I just meant that I was rereading everyone individually.

[Hober Mallow]

Also confirmed no hostile ITP Kreygasm.

What does this mean?

What is going on this game half the players have no coherent thought process at all. Yolo/Mallow pls post something longer than 2 sentences this is getting ridiculous. Mallow in particular can you please elaborate on these "initial feelings" you have for Green Poet which you've had all game and address her more recent content posts. Am I scum? Why do you want Blitz, and apparently only Blitz, to talk about me in particular?

--

Ryker > GP >> Mallow = Yolo.

I'm not sure why you asked me the first question after I said explicitly said I'd go deeper into it later. Anyways, I believe I indirectly answered this via my response to Green Tea. Let me know if there is anything that you would still like to be clarified though.

You're not a scum read. I think your tone has been super townie.

I asked Blitz about you because his reason for voting me at the time was for my "lazy" approach. I wanted to see if he had a similar read on you, because you had a similar approach at the time. An inconsistency in reads would have indicated to me that he had an agenda behind targeting me, not because he genuinely found the behavior scummy. Now that you are posting more, I get nothing from his answer.

--

Why is Yedi not in your scumlist?

I'll find out after the break in this exciting episode Mafia Is Not Dead.

"I'm in d", you say? @Elemina, are you sure you information is legit?

[Hober Mallow]

Blitz the question linking thing you do is hard to follow. Could you avoid doing that, good sir?

I dislike Blitz' approach thus far. His pushes so far have all been Low Hanging Fruit/EZ pushes (Irony, YOLO, Me, Ryker, Green Tea). Many of the questions he asked in his link-heavy post were things that had already been addressed.

Such as:

[@GP] What do you like and dislike about the argument between Ryker and Spinal

This very post that he links to explains what she dislikes about the Ryker/Spinal argument. So to me, this is a forced/fake question.


All (except one) of the link-questions towards Ryker in this post were things that had already been said towards Ryker already. I don't see the point of echoing these other than to boost the perceived amount of content he is producing.


--

The interactions between Blitz, YOLO, and Green Tea seem w/w/w.

• YOLO makes a scum list of Blitz, Green Tea, and Spiral, but only provides reasoning on spiral.
• Blitz concludes that YOLO is scum, then proceeds to vote me.
• Blitz has been wavering on his Green Tea read. He calls her a null scum read and claims that it can change depending on how she responds to the question I quoted above. This is such an irrelevant thing to base a read on. Especially, as I stated above, the very post he quotes already explains her thought process.
• Green Tea's response to Blitz ended with questions towards him that were out of left field. I'll quote the post below for convenience.

[spoiler=GP reply]

at a glance it feels like half of the thread is elimina trying to buddy up with ryker, and rkyer trying to tilt as much of the playerlist as he can, spinal particularly. I wish I could emulate kirsche's professional-level apathy here because I'd probably be playing a lot better lol

curious as to why hober mallow is continually trying to shift his conversations away from the active players. do you not like confrontation, or do you think all the major posters so far are town, or...? feels like you're trying to avoid committing to reads on people who may be around to call you out on them.
also, probably not important, but is there any reason I should be aware of that you're calling me "Green Tea"? I don't mind it, just curious if it's supposed to mean something special

did ryker ever explain why he thought/thinks blitz is scum? I should have pushed harder on this when it was still talked about. someone called me out on this in the last couple pages and I only then did I realize that ryker actually replied with "yeah, you're right, I did not give any reasons for voting blitz" and left it at that. that's no good...

proto's justification for disclaiming that his ryker vote was rvs seems ok to me. I'm probably not able to play this game as attentively as you'd like to see so far so :shrug: I don't have an excuse for the cases I've dropped. I don't see the issue with my spinal vote though, as failing to push ryker's blitz vote is independent of being able to see spinal as scummy
proto, what do you think about this prolonged ryker vs. spinal exchange? we seem to have gotten opposite scumreads out of it.

@blitz, there is nothing that I like about the argument between spinal and ryker. what I dislike about it is that it's allowed ryker to go on for pages without talking about the people he's said he actually thinks to be scum, and instead humoring the wallpost arguments of someone who he maintains isn't even one of his scumreads. I think the argument is wearing down spinal's patience to the point where he's just casing anyone who disagrees with him, like with hober mallow. or spinal is just scum...
blitz, who is scum? you seem to disapprove of ryker but I cannot tell from reading your post if that's an entirely personal issue or something pertaining to his alignment. and apart from him, I didn't see anyone else who you might think is scum

irony doesn't seem to be saying anything radical but her effort is noticeable, which is good.

This just comes off as really forced...especially because blitz had just posted his scum reads on the previous page...

I usually don't like to look into connections like these before we even have a flip, but I just thought it was interesting that I got this vibe from each player independently. Like the left field questions from GP struck me before I had even saw during the Blitz iso that Blitz had recently made his reads posts.

[Hober Mallow]

More to come tomorrow. I've reached my limit. Still have a lot to look at.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@mallow whats your opinion/read on spinal? youve mentioned him not looking at intent but im wondering if youre seeing that as scummy or poor town play

@yedi lol. my reads are bad huh? i looked at blitz/green poet and spinal last time i checked. whats problematic with having had my eye on them?

i wouldnt lynch ryker/elemina/sb. ryker i dont have a hard town read on but most of the people who have attacked him (spinal + rainbow) have either grossed me out or been unconvincing to the point i think hes being shat on in a "not a scum member" way. elemina is trying way too hard but it reads like someone whos earnest and i dont think he can keep this up as scum from what i know of him. sb has been by FAR the most rational player whose thoughts are internally consistent to the point where i cant see him pulling it out of his ass

speaking of which im pretty surprised refa has elemina as his #2. @refa you would really lynch him over a bunch of inactives (including myself)?

you know what? i actually want to lynch rainbow. his play has consisted of a ryker tunnel and when he throws out other names for a lynch (green poet + mallow) we get weak language like "i wouldnt mind if we went hober" and "I still find Green Poet to be a bit scummy, but her defenses seem fine for the most part and I wouldn't want to axe her off yet" and his language strikes me as being constructed to absolve itself of accountability. his play is consistent with a scum shitting on someone whos brought attention onto themselves thats distracted town (ryker in this case) and man i just cant buy that his strongest scumread has been ryker for so long. this has whats been bothering me about spinal as well but im thinkin we got bigger fish to fry and rainbow seems to be likelier to see through rykers scrambling than spinal (no offense intended spinal) so i aint buyin it

i have a bunch of nulls i cant tell you shit about past that. i would still lynch blitz. i would lynch mallow cuz hes middle of the road and enough players have commented on him that his flip will either reveal scum or point to other players. i would lynch green poet. i would lynch yedi

swag

##vote rainbow

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

on further thought i wouldnt lynch blitz or yedi today. the former cuz his reads are close to mine in wanting mallow/poet gone and the latter cuz i will have an easier time reading him in the future

RYKER IS THE BIGGEST WAGON BUT HES A BAD LYNCH

EVEN IF HES SCUM HE WILL OUT HIMSELF FROM BEING SO TALKATIVE WE HAVE ENOUGH INACTIVE/MIDDLE OF THE ROAD PEOPLE THAT I WANT THEM TO "PILE UP" BY IGNORING THEM. MOVE YOUR VOTE IF YOURE ON HIM PREFERABLY TO RAINBOW. OR GREEN POET OR MALLOW IM GENEROUS AND UNDERSTANDING HERE

request votecount

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

This strikes me as pretty weird, tbh. While I don't think anyone is expected to vote for me or Ryker, I don't understand why you'd declare that you'll refrain from voting either of us. I scanned your ISO and you weren't voting for anyone before this yourself (except a RVS vote). Since it doesn't seem like you have any better lynch targets, this post makes it sound like you personally wish to avoid getting involved with my conflict with Ryker. Though it's not much to go off of, it makes me think you might be Ryker's scumbuddy and are trying to ensure that you stay out of his conflicts.

for full context this was in response to mallow not wanting to vote ryker/rainbow before their seemingly impending wall battle. it seemed obvious to me that mallow just didnt want to be assed with pruning through a long exchange between the two (i sure didnt) so throw his hands up and declared bigger fish to fry. so the lack of understanding on rainbows part on something that seems obvious reads as disingenuous and opening the door to the idea of mallow being rykers scumbuddy for it just looks like a reach

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

also yedi you mentioned my reads being bad but i dont see the scumhunting value behind that statement. am i scum or just playing a scrub? :p

k last post for now things kept coming to me

[Blitz]

gonna have to reread all the stuff I skipped out yesterday, but don't expect me to post anytime soon since I am at work

Whilst I'm leaning towards the "the role is so ridiculous that it's difficult to make it up" side, if Blitz is not being serious, then it makes him less trustworthy, as he would have stuff to hide?

I think that was simply a joke.

I do not joke role claim (not even to get reactions) and I was being very serious about my claim.

[Irony]

As we're getting closer to Night One, I am going to change the topic of discussion slightly, to ask:

Who is at risk of getting killed by the members of the Mafia?

If we can make a list, then the Doctor and/or Bodyguard can protect these individuals. :)

[charlie_]

Blitz's post on Elemina is good. I'd sheep it. Refa's response is also fair but I'm interested in seeing what he comes up with when he cools down so there's more alignment/less emotion behind his reasoning.

@kirsche: why wouldn't Elemina want to take a fight with Refa here? I agree that it's unlikely that Refa would be lynched currently, but unless your team is under pressure as mafia who you get lynched doesn't really matter on D1. iirc scum!Xinnidy used to do weird little side-pushes like this every game so I wouldn't give Elemina a pass for this unless there's a specific reason for it?

@Omega: what happened to "I don't do townreads"?

I read back through some of Proto's posts (please stop quoting so much) and while I don't really think his phrasing means much I kind of agree that he hasn't done nearly as much as I thought. His readspost has a lot of :words: but he never has a conlusion on Elemenia or Spinal. The Spinal read is especially weird because it sounds like he thinks Ryker is an easy target when it's his own primary suspicion. And it also sounds like he should be suspicious about the slot but then for some reason is it.

@Blitz: what do you think of Proto now? I understand that you thought the votes on him weren't good but I want to know what your real stance here is.

[Blitz]

As we're getting closer to Night One, I am going to change the topic of discussion slightly, to ask:

Who is at risk of getting killed by the members of the Mafia?

If we can make a list, then the Doctor and/or Bodyguard can protect these individuals. :)

I have night talk, leave it to me, I will assign some plans that might be good to follow based on what happens with the lynch

Blitz's post on Elemina is good. I'd sheep it. Refa's response is also fair but I'm interested in seeing what he comes up with when he cools down so there's more alignment/less emotion behind his reasoning.

I read back through some of Proto's posts (please stop quoting so much) and while I don't really think his phrasing means much I kind of agree that he hasn't done nearly as much as I thought. His readspost has a lot of :words: but he never has a conlusion on Elemenia or Spinal. The Spinal read is especially weird because it sounds like he thinks Ryker is an easy target when it's his own primary suspicion. And it also sounds like he should be suspicious about the slot but then for some reason is it.

@Blitz: what do you think of Proto now? I understand that you thought the votes on him weren't good but I want to know what your real stance here is.

I think we should go for the lynch on Elemina, I don't think Hober is getting any better, but after thinking some time while driving, I think Elemina has been worse and deserves to be lynched, plus he has a lot of interaction

As for Proto, until I saw your post, I was just putting reading Proto off, only skimming his posts, I will get back to you about it when I can

[Elemina]

1. What is your read on Irony now? Read on SB?

2. Your #46

3. You have been asked for scum picks and contribution and you aren't as active as myself or Ryker.

4. That doesn't give you the excuse of ignoring his slot. Ryker gave reads now. You can read him or replace out.

5. I'll defer this to the next post.

In conclusion, you show no drive to find scum proactively, your recent read on me being omgus. It seems more like a lazy catch up. If you town you aren't trying that hard. That said, your reaction to me screams of town rather than scum. I don't think you'd bring that out as scum, since it isn't good at all.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

i DONT do townreads sb

i do "wouldnt lynch" declarations. that way if they flip scum i dont have to live with the pain of being wrong

[Elemina]

(because that is another word to express someone who isn't helping progress the phase)

This is where your contradiction theory falls apart. My problem was he didn't use his vote, not that he didn't provide any content. Yet, it was semi-serious in that I did so to progress the RVS phase. You are talking about content. Also, Hober was null, and is now giving out more content. (That I have yet to read) You should talk about that. How long have you been playing Mafia?

[Elemina]

i DONT do townreads sb

I really can't believe you have SB as not lynch when he's not just coming out of the woodworks

[Elemina]

In other news, my role is a odd night insomniac, however, my character has to make up for the sleep of staying awake and therefore, I cannot post the first 24 hours of even days (what the point of this role is, I have no idea).

I thought the underlined was a joke. Your wording is confusing.

[Elemina]

Refa's frustration is null-town - he could be scum thinking he was caught for wrong reasons, but I don't think he would react this strongly. It's late and I don't have the effort to deconstruct

Hey SB. I'd like you to take that effort now. Also, why are you clearing Refa off of frustration only instead of looking at the full picture? My eyes are on you now.

Refa is certainly not scum.

She has adressed every single point raised, and you Elemina, have been ignoring and constantly misrepresenting her posts. The Irony part is especially frustrating because she has

That is quite the confident read. The underlined is concerning. Please explain how I have constantly misrepresented him. I want you to give reads now. You have been focused on Ryker and Hober for too long.