Ensemble Mafia - N5

[Green Poet]

Why would it be pro town to immediately share the information? Did you immediately share it when you had this role?

I did, yeah.

Outing setup numbers is more beneficial to town than it is for the scumteam, because town learns more. Also, claiming informed is protown because if during the course of the game you show up in someone's watcher scan or something, or reliable numbers are outed or deduced that conflicts with what you claimed, you're obvious scum. Giving yourself fewer outs helps town more easily determine your alignment.

[Kriemhild]

Also, if we don't lynch Ryker today, can we please not lynch the Vig (whoever it is)? I want them to shoot Ryker tonight.

[Hober Mallow]

I did, yeah.

Outing setup numbers is more beneficial to town than it is for the scumteam, because town learns more. Also, claiming informed is protown because if during the course of the game you show up in someone's watcher scan or something, or reliable numbers are outed or deduced that conflicts with what you claimed, you're obvious scum. Giving yourself fewer outs helps town more easily determine your alignment.

Dope.

After your #254 and Ele's #256, my concerns with you have actually dissolved. I thought it was suspicious that you assumed Ele had an informative role and that he should share it if he did. It makes sense now seeing that you've seen this role before.

I did, yeah.

Outing setup numbers is more beneficial to town than it is for the scumteam, because town learns more. Also, claiming informed is protown because if during the course of the game you show up in someone's watcher scan or something, or reliable numbers are outed or deduced that conflicts with what you claimed, you're obvious scum. Giving yourself fewer outs helps town more easily determine your alignment.

Dope.

My concerns with you have actually dissolved

[Ryker]

Okay, first things first, let's get a few things straight.

1.) You will never get a post this big out of me again, so PLEASE bear with me through it. I won't make you do it again, promise.

2.) I voted Spinal at the beginning of the game for the same reason I voted Green Poet. He had a vote and looked like he might hop because someone voted him without explanation. I had no real reason to think he was scum, I just wanted him to move so I could see how he reacted and how others reacted to him and the pressure on him. It was disappointing to me that Elemina unvoted so quickly because Spinal DID hop around near to boiling and continuing to engage him was an easy way to bring RVS to a screeching halt.

3.) I engaged Spinal and intentionally starting pushing buttons. I saw quickly he doesn't like when people don't explain things, so I refused to explain things. I initially wanted to see if his vote was from a town or scum perspective by seeing if he was looking to entertain possibilities other than the motive he assigned to me (being that I was scum and awful at the game). This was why it was important to me to get him to respond before I did, but he didn't. Initially this (combined with the fact that he sits in a tunnel most of the game) had me reading him as scum, but as the pages have added up, he reminds me immensely of a guy I know named Nich who bites into the first thing he thinks he sees and never lets go. Spinal's not really interested in looking for more on someone, but is instead stubbornly refusing to do anything but look at the surface level of the game and my lack of cooperation with his view of the game he immediately classified as scum behavior. I think this is due to inexperience in dealing with people who don't really care about his views on the game rather than being scum. I'm pretty sure he genuinely thinks I'm scum, but that's fine.

SPINAL - TOWN

4.) Blitz I originally had on the top of my scumread because his post #21 tries to throw the brakes on the Rainbow wagon at the start of the game, but later in post #46 says he agrees with the idea of pushing gutreads for the sake of preventing the thread stagnating, which is exactly what the Rainbow wagon would do. If you are OKAY with minimal content pushes in RVS, then why stop that one? I was mostly shoving my vote somewhere so that I could further trigger a response from Spinal. His recent comments about Hober Mallow, I agree with. However, despite the post being valid criticism of the slot, it's one that could be easily picked up from a scum perspective if Hober Mallow is town.

BLITZ - NULL LEANING SCUM

5.) Elemina is my boy. And no, Rainbow, I did not ask him to talk to Irony for me because I wanted to sheep him further (like, what the hell?). I asked him to explain things to Irony because it took explanation of basic mafia theory and I did not want to get embroiled in another of those when I was already in one with Spinal. I am not good with newbies. I tend to be very unapproachable if you haven't noticed. Anyway, that tangent is over. Elemina seems very capable of rational thought and, past that, he is constantly moving things forward, which I appreciate a lot. Early on, I could see him actively trying to exit RVS and I have since seen him poking at multiple people and trying to drive the discussion forward. I like this slot a lot. If I'm wrong on it, I'm tasking Refa and Hober Mallow with blowing the whistle and letting me know he's playing me. Cheers guys.

ELEMINA - TOWN

6.) Irony is adorable, I stand by that comment. She's very obviously new or is playing me like a shadowy puppet master using the first game on a new site as a way to manipulate. But that only works once and I'm fine assuming she's really just that new. As it stands, her posts line up with new town player trying to figure out exactly how this game works in the middle of a shitstorm. Continue asking questions and dragging out a trail of reads and stances we can trace back and if she's scum, she'll slip up, but I doubt it.

IRONY - TOWN

7.) Refa is really weird for me to read. I kinda want to like Refa's posts early (Refa ended up town on my early reactions list), but then there's things like the complete failure to follow up on the observation that Poet's first posts were "unnatural." That's really weak. All in all, I'm looking forward to dragging out further commitment from this slot in the future. As it stands, my eyes kind of slide off the page when I'm reading Refa's posts.

REFA - NULL

8.) Green Poet is a similar pain to read. Early on he goes "Well, Ryker's scummy for being the third vote, but at the same time, I get his PoV." That's just so null. Mostly I recall Green Poet's posts as being noncommittal in general, but I'll be quite honest with you, I don't remember GP's posts well at all. The only other real ones I remember are when he said that me vs Spinal was basically useless and his #116 in my notes where he says Blitz doesn't have enough posts to comment on when Blitz had 3 posts all worth commentary. I will update this read sooner rather than later after going back through the game.

GREEN POET - NULL

9.) Hober Mallow is really being the poster child for shit when he doesn't deserve it. Yes, he's failed to commit to things and is sitting the sidelines, but YOLO and Yedi at the VERY LEAST are as guilty if not moreso. I am not excusing such action. However, rather than commenting on slots like that being bad at this stage, you should instead be dragging out stances from them with direct questions. I am specifically bothered by him saying that he will not vote me or Rainbow and assuming a battle of walls will be coming as his reasoning. I think that's very dismissive and I don't like it, but on the whole I need to see more.

HOBER MALLOW - NULL

10.) YOLOSWAG has done next to nothing. Early warning not to townread Refa is fine. Early Blitz vote lined up with mine. I just need more to really read that slot.

YOLOSWAG - NULL

11.) Yedi - Welcome to the game. Post so I can get a read.

YEDI - NULL

12.) Kirsche. It's cute you think I'm looking for pages to concoct something. I am fully capable of pulling things out of my ass on the spot. In general, most of what I've seen from you is reads on me based on faulty assumptions of my character. It's DEFINITELY an easy scum hop on to a popular push that's dominated a lot of the thread and I can't remember anything else out of your slot. Unfortunately, much like Spinal, it's an easy wagon to jump on if you're fairly new to having what you're used to challenged. I don't like your posts. Can you give me a read on Green Poet and on Blitz?

KIRSCHE - NULL

13.) I forgot SB was in this game until this page. I remember seeing his avatar and I'll have to rain check this one like I did Green Poet. I remember even less about SB than I did Poet. I'll rectify it shortly.

SB - NULL.

14.) Rainbow gets my next post.

[eclipse]

I engaged Spinal and intentionally starting pushing buttons.

Do your resident bastard mafia mod a favor and never do this again. There's a good way and a bad way of doing it, and I'd rather stand off to the side and make terrible comments about everyone's avatars.

[Ken Masters]

So that's your big thing? Town reads and a few nulls?

I'm about to have a heart attack

[Ryker]

Do your resident bastard mafia mod a favor and never do this again. There's a good way and a bad way of doing it, and I'd rather stand off to the side and make terrible comments about everyone's avatars.

Talk to me about it if you have an issue. I'd rather not discuss it in a mafia game.

[Ryker]

I had Rainbow as the biggest scum read by a really large margin until going back through his re-entry posts to grab a quote for my read on him, but I LESS sure upon re-examination.

Let's look at the positives and the negatives from this slot.

BAD

-First post denies responsibility while trying to establish something that otherwise looks like a vote he had a reason to place, thereby rendering it useless.

-Insists that I'm scummy because I typed Irony instead of Blitz by mistake. Is INSISTENT that a typo couldn't be the cause. Assignment of guilt there astounds me.

-Keeps every door open to read players as scum. In the spoiler, he talks about Irony being a possible scummer because he could be faking his new player status and that while he agrees with Spinal, he could be scum. In his #178, his reads list boils down to scum or null. No town reads whatsoever. Nothing even leaning toward town. While pointing out that someone town considers to be town could still be scum, leaving ALL the doors open lets scum go back and lynch other players at any stage of the game. This bothers me immensely.

-In that spoiler, states that I wouldn't draw such negative attention as scum, but then goes on to vote me and insist adamantly that I'm scum (weak, will cover in the next section).

GOOD

-Upon second read, spoiler seems stream of conscious. I can see the gears turning and it makes his flipping stance on me make more sense when coupled with what he considers a giant reveal that I was sheeping Elemina and "can't remember my reads."

The fact I can see his thought process developing in his post makes me feel much better, but the gross assignment of guilt and the way he refuses to let out a positive read outweigh that at the moment. However, I could be convinced I'm wrong. Yedi/Refa/Kirche please give me an in-depth read on Rainbow and specifically a response to your thoughts on leaving a back door to scum read players.

Rainbow, in #178, you say clearly that you can see Irony's posts coming from newbscum rather than from a more experienced player faking scum. Can you go through and show me where you are getting this conclusion from?

[Ryker]

Before I go back through the game, Spinal/Rainbow, do you find the explanation of my actions satisfactory, whether or not you agree with it? Why or why not?

[Elemina]

Scum:
Refa, Blitz

Null scum:
Ryker

Null leaning town:
Yolo, Yedi

Null:
SB, Kirsche, Hober Mallow

Town:
Spinal, Rainbow, Irony, Green Poet

#18

Refa takes Rainbow's vote contradiction seriously, when Blitz seems to take it as a townie due to meta. It's possible Refa as scum ignored considering meta and simply asked anyway to incriminate Rainbow. Only a theory though.

Refa asks me about my scumlist, and I tell him I'll explain later but he has no follow up. Shows that he only asks questions to ask them.



#55

I dislike Refa's 55. Mudslings Green Poet when she has not conveyed her thoughts clearly. To me, it seemed like she thought I was trying to fake confidence to seem town, which is something Refa did not consider. (Depending on how Green Poet explains this further) He also doesn't consider his latest post, and singles out his first post. This shows he does not care to sort him out and only cherry picks things for his advantage, instead looking at the whole picture.


#64

I agree with someone else saying that scum wouldn't give town a pass, and I feel this is what Refa!scum is trying to do. He's using the possibility that Irony got coached to negate his townieness.


#71

Here he asks for Ryker to explain his Blitz read but does nothing else.


#101

Here he states he will make a bigger post after playing video games but this is yesterday.


#239

Here he mentions an excuse of lack of motivation (and irl duties) for not posting as much. I think this is enough to show that he doesn't care to actually scum hunt and progress the phase. His spoiler of each person was more of a response rather than an analysis, a lazy big post.

He doesn't seem like he's trying to determine anyone's alignment. Him saying 'fair enough' to GP without any further interaction is telling. He also mentions that my justification on Blitz bothers him and has telling posts from Blitz without explaining what those are.

He gives excuses for not approaching Irony. He also asks Ryker a question way too late. Another example of being reactive rather than proactive. Shows that he cares to seem like he's doing work when really doesn't care to do it in the first place. There is a difference between himself and I, I want to play videogames but am determined to push this game along while he, has no motivation for some unknown reason. My theory is that he either doesn't like playing as scum or simply doesn't like to fool people and likes to game solve, but has not shown any indication of that. Yolo can you confirm this?

I don't thine he genuinely believes I sheeped Ryker's vote when I have different reasoning then him, and more than him. I'm still on him, and Ryker has lost interest for some reason.


#241

Isn't convincing, and is pushing towards low hanging fruit, with little progression towards Mallow. Also is fine with voting him when admitting it's not scummy but 'rubs him the wrong way'.

---

Summary:

1. Asks about scumlist, never cares to follow up.

2. Mudslings GP and doesn't consider other possibilities.

3. Doesn't try to determine Irony's alignment, just comes to the conclusion that she isn't townie to negate any town cred he gets.

4. Admits to having a lack of motivation, but doesn't explain what that is.

5. Is reactive over being proactive.

6. Big post isn't anayslis, simply responses.

7. No progression on Mallow, weak push on him who happens to be low hanging fruit.

8. Admits to voting mallow for something that should be neutral but justifies it with 'it rubs me the wrong way'.

Blitz:

I'll repeat some reasons, as Blitz isn't really helping himself since.

1. His push on Irony seems like a scum push, he's not considering his alignment, just trying to take advantage of his newbieness.
2. He's also being reactive, and is using chores as an excuse.
3. He has been less active and isn't trying to progress the phase.
4. His comment about Ryker being a troll seems like him trying to ignore Ryker and not determine his alignment.
5. Mallow push is weak. I don't see how passive = scum, at all. Nothing to catch scum is null, he's been providing content, just not to Spinal's liking. (Which he disagrees) I don't find anything suspicious from him, actually. I again still believe scum wouldn't call out inactives when they themselvs are inactive.


Ryker:

I agree with Spinal that it seemed like Ryker was taking advantage of my push from under me, and possibly didn't want me to come to the conclusion that he was town from it. I considered he may have been doing it to pressure Spinal further, but I think Ryker should be able to determine Spinal's alignment by seeing his interaction with me. I felt his vote on Blitz was pre-mature, but I liked it because I was feeling scum vibes from Blitz. Thing is Ryker will take advantage of his own team if they are not doing well to seem town. It looks bad for him that he's not sticking to the Blitz push now. I think his Rainbow vote is lame. I also think there are connections between him, Blitz, and Refa. Him having mostly nulls is also lame by now. I will look into his read on Rainbow and talk about my read on him and other town reads in a bit.

[Elemina]

##Vote: Refa

Mallow, come on over.

[Ryker]

As I assume the two of you, especially Rainbow, will not agree with my Rainbow read, what do you think of lynching one of the players we've heard little from (Hober, Yedi, YOLO, SB for example) if their level of content doesn't improve?

[Elemina]

Ryker I want you to guess at who I am right now.

[Ryker]

Ran.

[Blitz]

Blitz, can you give me your top 3 scum reads before I post my shit? I'd like to see it BEFORE I put everything out there.

I would say Hober Mallow, followed by Yoloswag, followed by Green Poet. I would lynch the first 2 as things are, while Green Poet, I need to reread her.

I have yet to read everything after this page

[Elemina]

Yes.

[Elemina]

So I'm fine with lynching Refa today. I can compromise to Blitz or Ryker. If there is a Vig, I want them shooting Refa. I'm not voting Rainbow or Mallow.

[Ryker]

Where'd your Yedi read come from, Elemina?

[Ken Masters]

As I assume the two of you, especially Rainbow, will not agree with my Rainbow read, what do you think of lynching one of the players we've heard little from (Hober, Yedi, YOLO, SB for example) if their level of content doesn't improve?

Terrible idea.

I would only lynch Hober because I explained my reasons to believe him scum, not because low activity.

You could accidentaly Lynch a PR, and it would be an easy justification for the Mafia to explain the lynch on "we agreed on a random inactive"

[Elemina]

I like Yedi's entrance, and I like him mentioning Irony as a town read. I agree with him on the Ryker v Spinal interaction conclusion he made. That's it though, that's why I have him as null leaning town. I'll get to my other town reads in a bit.

[Refa]

why me

[Ryker]

I remove SB from my proposed pool. I like his #262. As long as I get more like that, he can stick around for a long time.

[Elemina]

Ryker talk to me about my Refa read.

[Ryker]

Terrible idea.

I would only lynch Hober because I explained my reasons to believe him scum, not because low activity.

You could accidentaly Lynch a PR, and it would be an easy justification for the Mafia to explain the lynch on "we agreed on a random inactive"

SHORTLY, as I don't want to get into a mafia theory with you again, explain to me how you deal with inactives if you aren't willing to lynch them for being a PR. What do you do if the scum team is YOLO, Yedi, and Hober for example?

I want to know your thoughts on what we should do there.

[Ryker]

Ryker talk to me about my Refa read.

GUHHHHHHHH.

That means I have to read Refa's posts again and I already signed up for more than I want to do tonight.

Ok, gimmie a sec.

Talk to me about my Rainbow read later after I've seen other people talk about it.