Toonami Mafia: Game Over

[Elieson]

Shinori and Cam have posted temporary V/LA

Are you kidding me?

Cam only has posted temporary V/LA

Edited July 20, 2013 by Elieson

[Zkirsche]

He can still react even without a vote. If he chooses to ignore what you say because you didn't vote him then that's when you pressure. You still voted for someone who wasn't your supposed top scumread, which just feels off to me.

Meh, whether I was right or not shouldn't make a difference, something has made me question your playstyle every game. In Masquerade I was interested in lynching other maf too, and while PoE affected it a great deal I still thought you might've been the other scumteam.

Have your thoughts on NNR improved at all or is what he did better than my minor observation and (FYPOV) misunderstanding of pressure voting?

[BBM]

Massblock and an actual block can co-exist. Claiming to block the compulsive role doesn't mean anything because he can't confirm or deny it.

The "kirsche is distancing himself from his vote" case is really graspy, he's still making the vote and therefore committing to it if BBM ever flips town... Don't like BBM much atm, also want to know what he thought about Snike's huge post when he unvoted.

Xinnidy, why is your vote on SB? Your words:content ratio is kinda fucked up.

I thought Snike's response as to his initial wariness about Bard was okay and he gave what I wanted (an actual explanation of his feelings about NNR, as well as actual reads on people).

You can distance yourself from your own vote. The vote ties him to my wagon, but that doesn't mean he can't loosen the tie.

There was nothing new I had to add on the NNR front though. I'm not going to waste my time typing out the same stuff that other people have already said when I had nothing else to say. I think my Snike vote was more useful than just saying "yeah I agree with people about NNR, vote: NNR", when I found both him and Snike suspicious at the time.

[BBM]

As for my feelings about NNR, idk what to make of the claim. I don't think that one person asking him to claim really warranted it, nor is it so strong a role that it would make him nervous about getting run up and make him want to claim early. Prims had a good point about it not being proven due to hooking a passive role. Considering Manix will most likely use the mass hook tonight, it probably can't be proven tonight (unless he outprioritizes Manix and hooks him first), making N2 the earliest it can be proven, most likely.

I also don't see any scumhunting attempt from him since his sheep onto Scorri (which is hardly scumhunting either).

[NekoRex]

Why would I hook random people though? My role is effectively harmful to town until lategame.

[BBM]

Hookers are an offensive protective role. They're not so useful N0, maybe, but they can be pretty strong after that. They're hardly negative utility.

Scorri, do you have any scumreads? Your posts have consisted mostly of defending yourself.

[NekoRex]

That only applies on the ~maybe~ off chance I manage to block a nightkill or something, and that's some pretty shitty odds in the first few days, when I could accidentally be hitting the doc or a cop or something.

[Elieson]

V-V-V-Voderps!

NekoRex (NNR) (5): SB, prims, Bard, Rein, j00

kirsche (2): BBM, Snike

scorri (1): NNR

BigBadMarshmallow (BBM) (1): kirsche

mafia sucks (Prims) (1): Shinori

Snike (1): Naglfar

Essbee (SB) (1): Xin'dy

Voteless Trash: Cam, scorri

Unable to vote/be voted: Manix

[spoiler=Players with 0 Votes]

Bard (0):

Captain America (Rein, Strider) (0):

Shinori (0):

j00 (0):

Manix (0):

CT075 (Camdar) (0):

Naglfar (0):

Xin'dy (0):

Day 1 will end at 1800 GMT -5 (5pm CST, 6pm EST, etc) on 7/22/13. With 15 (-1) alive and present, 8 votes yields instant hammer and triggers phase end. Phase Ends in approximately 41 hours and 30 minutes.

Manix is not able to be voted, and will not be posting in thread. Any votes on Manix will automatically be defaulted to No Lynch.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Elieson

[Shinori]

So I haven't paid much attention. Did neko claim roleblocker? Sigh I should read this stuff. I sincerely hope people aren't just trying to vote nnr for roleblocker. I assume there is something else.

[Bard]

So I haven't paid much attention. Did neko claim roleblocker? Sigh I should read this stuff. I sincerely hope people aren't just trying to vote nnr for roleblocker. I assume there is something else.

... He claimed because people were voting him. Yes, since you signed up to Mafia, you should probably read this stuff or something equally silly.

[Prims]

did anybody else remember that sb was in this game. i didn't

[charlie_]

Sorry about that, I got busy and distracted by offsite stuff (and finishing drafters). Should be good now though.

Will post in a bit.

[charlie_]

(also ftr i notified eli beforehand)

[Shinori]

Why is elie not notifying the thread. Silly silly.

I will get some sort of post before I go to sleep. I just don't know about the quality of it cause I very much dislike reading lots of pages.

[Prims]

I just kind of snapped irl. I might need a break from mafia or something. I'll try not to sub out, but yeah, heads up if I feel really shitty tomorrow.

[charlie_]

I think I'm caught up now.

I still don't like his reaction to voting a claimed alignment cop, shitty fakeclaim or not. Nobody answered my question to what kind of cop he was anyway.

ROLEFISHING BAD

But no seriously, why did you need to know this? It doesn't really make a difference, and just serves as to make you look worse.

And I personally would have found very scummy if SB overreacted and felt forced to claim or so (or would have found it scummy if anyone pushed him to the point of him doing that), because it's a matter of opportunity and grasping the situation. If he were truly town, he'd have no reason to claim over this if I didn't press it any further without offering more to my case either ways. I didn't think absurdity/unlikely-chance pressure would be that hard to grasp.

Did I get something out of it? Not as much as I'd expected, there was Bard's claim just before, that I was hoping some people would overlook. Then SB reacted very soon in a way I'm not fond of, and people just sat in their faces expecting a response from me otherwise. It did rile some things up though.

This doesn't really make any sense to me. You pretty much say that I didn't overreact, but then say you didn't like my reaction? You also don't say why, which is kind of suspect to me. How was I supposed to react, knowing it wasn't legit, since I know my own role pm better than you do.

With all I've said, this may sound like an 180 on my opinion about my own cop claim, but could you reiterate the last sentence? What of it makes you suspect him for believing a cop claim? I don't see your case.
Right now, I'm fine on waiting an answer to this from you.

Well, fmpov it was clearly a joke (which probably skewers a bit, I'll admit, but apparently Cam saw it as a joke too so it's not just me) but also claiming a guilty on the SK is unlikely (much more than hitting scum or town) on someone who barely posted n0, especially over prims or someone who actually did post a decent amount. There's also the chance of the SK having a godfather side effect or something. That and SF has a tendency to make fake cop reports a lot in ED1.

i read the thread and i have some opinions but i'm not coherent enough to say them so i think i'm gonna hold off for now so i don't say something i'm gonna regret (take that as you will)

although i honestly took xinny's thing as a complete joke

Don't like how hesitant Cam is to post here. Townies care more about getting not particularly coherent cases out rather than sitting back and not doing anything, and the "don't want to say anything i'm gonna regret" part makes him seem really self-conscious.

Well first off lynches need a little bit of sheeping to actually happen and secondly this seems kinda self-conscious, which is weird in of itself.

I think I might have this weird vendetta against your playstyle but ##Vote: BBM

I'm a bit confused with the whole Xin'dy-NNR interaction and will reread when not tired.

Agreeing with BBM that this was a pretty hard misrep here, and his later reasons don't feel like a particularly strong reason for voting either.

let's just say that the implication that we could learn a lot about you and manix simultaneously is very tempting. what's the worst that could happen? (serious question)

Worst is you out doc or vig or something. I don't like how quick you were to tell Neko to claim when he inquired, or how quickly he suggested it and followed through with only one person's opinion. Rather than trying to clear himself a bit he just threw in the towel and claimed really early, which isn't really good. Also the compulsive modifier could be faked and as an excuse for targetting randomly on night 0. The fact that he was so quick to believe it but at the same time not vote for me seems suspect to me, he was asking for approval almost when he said that the best way to test it was to lynch me, and the whole it's "the safest way" feels kind of like distancing, like, "this was the best way, don't look at me when it blows up in my face!"

On a personal note I absolutely hate clutter posts like #163. Just makes rereading more annoying than it should be. Not scummy though, or at least not this early. If it were later then you could say you were distracting town.

-I don't think both NNR and Manix are scum as I don't think scum would have a roleblocker (assuming Bard's inspec on him was actually accurate) and then have someone else claim it because that's super risky.
-Xin'dy seemed genuinely clueless in her first post. Null.
-Can scorri elaborate on her #200: do you think that Manix is actually a roleblocker or do you think the roleblocker part comes with the role.
-Wait is Bard's claim serious or not I'm confused?
-Don't like NNR's bard vote in #205, seems too convinced that Xin is cop and Bard isn't.
-On the other hand Snike seems a bit too hesitant to believe Bard but this is minor.
-"Oh man guys it was just a reaction test. I didn't get that much but I don't regret it" ugh I hate these so much but townies do it all the time. Knowing that you weren't clueless makes me dislike your original post a lot more.

Just thought I should clarify a bit for you BBM: I saw your point about not feeling that voting Snike would get you as far, but I disagree; you should always vote your strongest scum reads, or at least make them clear. By the way you worded it I was not sure if Snike or NNR is your biggest scumread.

Gonna bold the actual stuff in this post that is actually a scumread, and italics all of the nullread/waffling stuff. There's only one suspicion in that post that doesn't waffle or discredit itself. Looks like kirsche is faking more content then he actually has.

Also if there's multiple Mafia teams he can very well be one of the other team, if there's only one team it might be overkill to have two roleblockers but honestly, outguessing the mod + no certainty Neko's claim is real due to above convenience.

I've been scum in a game with Masshook/Hooker/Redirector all on a team before. Kinda irrelevant, but eh.

Gonna vote Xinny outside of the spoilers so nobody misses it in votals.

Didn't like her reaction test. She hasn't really done a lot with it, she said I reacted in a way that she "wasn't fond of" when I don't really see how I was supposed to react otherwise? Flip my shit and get lynched? Also something about her tone in places bugs me a lot, like this bit:

You haven't mentioned about his results or even seemed to grasp his role prior to this post, or even mentioned manix at all ever. Congratulations!

I dunno, it sounds really condescending and just kind of make her look like an ass. This is kind of reaching but it's seriously bugging me anyway.

Don't like NNR, kirsche or Nags (to a lesser extent) either. Don't care much for the case on Snike.

##Unvote

##Vote: Xin'dy

[Naglfar]

so okay wow neko actually claimed? I didn't want to come across as demanding a claim but welp. thing is, I honestly can't imagine him being in such a hurry to do all that as scum.

I have no idea how kirsche feels about his own vote. also kirsche/BBM slapfight and potential SB/xinnidy slapfight, among these BBM's vote is the only one that makes sense to me.

anyway my vote on snike is kind of obsolete now so ##Unvote. but now I have two problems; firstly my brain is shit today, secondly nobody's posted anything lately. gonna hold onto my vote until I actually get a #1 scumread again.

[charlie_]

Mind explaining why he wouldn't do that as scum, because I drew the opposite conclusion from it?

What about my vote didn't make sense? Xinny claimed it was a reaction test (which is already iffy to me), implies that I acted correctly by not overreacting or claiming, but then said that she wasn't fond of my reaction. This is a pretty big contradiction imo, and she didn't even justify why she wasn't fond of it. If she explains herself well, I might switch back over to NNR or to kirsche for reasonings I've already stated.

[Zkirsche]

I don't understand what you mean by me not knowing how I feel about my own vote. If I didn't want to vote I would choose not to vote.

[BBM]

SB made a good point about Xinny- I didn't notice that contradiction in her post talking about SB's reaction to her test. I also agree with SB about the timing of NNR's claim- its haste seemed like a bit of an overreaction.

NNR and Scorri have like no scumhunting at all. I know Scorri has the thing where she doesn't like posting a lot on D1, and IIRC she was out last evening, but I was still talking to her quite a bit about Drafters during the late night while we were waiting for that to wrap up. NNR even posted after me saying he had no scumhunting, and responded to my blurb on his Hooker claim, but couldn't be assed to come up with any reads?

I don't really like how Naglfar is just listing stuff as slapfights and potential slapfights when that word has sort of a negative connotation that I don't really think has been there as of yet. He didn't DIRECTLY ask NNR to claim, but he did say that he wouldn't really mind it, and stating after NNR claimed that he didn't really intend for NNR to claim seems suspect as well.

[j00]

naglfar should just put a vote down even if he hasn't got a single most scummy read, because even though nothing's happening right now, not voting is not gonna encourage much to happen either so not voting until anything happens is just counter productive.

also the reasoning "scum wouldn't claim this fast" is weird because why not? fakes and all? manix claimed miller off the bat and he's looking very scum right now. if anything, town roles such as doc and cop are more likely to be reluctant to claim immediately than a lot of scum fakes.

too many players in general that are busy/away/tired/apathetic, most of the posts lately have been pretty bad in terms of content but since a lot of them are "bleh i'm sorry can't post much/haven't got time/too tired right now" it's not necessarily scummy, just hard to get reads off. people like prims/scorri/shinori/cam are still pretty blank to me.

keeping my vote on nekorex though since he hasn't made an effort to defend himself or scumhunt even though he's the biggest/only wagon right now.

[j00]

rein is so blank to me i forgot he existed

[scorri]

I can't think of any reason scorri has to debunk that reaction test as town that I like, but I think the rest of her posts are good so no vote unless that changes.

Cause I didn't realize Bard's vote was a reaction test?

Then I declare your No-RVS voting at Volcanic mafia to also be dumb.

Yeah, it kinda was. Or rather, the way I went about it was dumb.

If you find reaction testing dumb, what do you propose town should do?

Well, in this game, we had a whole N0 to talk about. There were interactions a plenty there, like with Manix/Prims/Snike, etc. Could talk about those. Besides that... I dunno. I just think 90% of the time reaction tests are dumb because either they do nothing because people know what they are or they do nothing because the person doing the reaction test does nothing with it.

NNR and Scorri have like no scumhunting at all. I know Scorri has the thing where she doesn't like posting a lot on D1, and IIRC she was out last evening, but I was still talking to her quite a bit about Drafters during the late night while we were waiting for that to wrap up.

Yeah, and I was working mostly on getting a new RP up instead of focusing on mafia since, you know, I didn't post in any game last night.

For now, I'm going to

##Vote: Naglfar

for reasons of

-Kinda pushed Neko into claiming and then was all "Oh, whoa, didn't mean for that to happen"

-Empty unvote for reasons of being obsolete without explaining why that changed

-Also by kinda pushed I mean Neko went "I have role-related reasons to suspect a thing" he went "well that sure sounds like bussing, please give me more about these reasons" Neko goes "should i just claim?" he goes "well it sure would give us good information and it's real tempting, what's the worse that could happen (i'm serious about this)" Neko claims, he goes "Whoa, didn't mean to actually get Neko to claim" like... this is textbook rolefishing

-Also things like saying that Manix sounds like upset town and trying to dictate where cop goes, etc. during N0 are giving me bad vibes.

Pedit:

rein is so blank to me i forgot he existed

lolrein

Also, Neko has claimed compulsive roleblock which is highly unlikely to co-exist on the same team as Manix's role, so there's no point to lynching Neko when the role can possibly be proven tonight.

[BBM]

Except NNR's role probably can't be proven tonight, unless it out-prioritizes Manix's mass-hook.

[j00]

there's nothing to rule out this being multimaf either (manix's hook affecting anyone else than his own faction could still affect other scum) and we can't really tell the difference between town compulsive hooker/scum hooker.

no problem with NNR lynch unless his actions starts being unscummy, his role alone doesn't convince me of much.