ITT I rank the characters

[Junkhead]

IIRC there are no Valkyires but Mage Knights instead, and they get slowed down by their Elfire tomes.

But those enemies RARELY appear, they only appear for Ch 19.

But as I stated, people aren't as dumb to field a WARRIOR to a map filled with SM/MK.

He doesn't double most other things but doesn't get doubled by them either, I assume he does quite well with a Brave Axe thanks to great Atk (Especially if supported with Ross) as well as decent Hit.

[Rewjeo]

Well, we aren't fielding a Warrior, we're fielding a Hero. And the faster enemies double him. That's not good, especially considering he can't take an exceptionally high number of hits anyways, and he ins't dodging too much, either.

The point is, Ross's lategame is much better than Garcia's.

[Junkhead]

He actually does better as a Warrior, he only gets +1 AS as a Hero and swords, since he isn't dodging much anyways it isn't much of a benefit to have swords for WTA or just not having WTD, +3/Res Def is actually quite good, he should defeneatly go Warrior to take advantage of his high Str growth.

[Rewjeo]

It's a 2 AS difference. And when he's already getting doubled by some enemies, you can bet that 2 AS>>>>>1 DEF/RES for his durability.

[Junkhead]

As stated, those enemies only appear in Ch 19, for one chapter. But then there are Mauthedoog & Gwyllgis by endgame, but barely any paladin will double them, the ones the could double them easily are either Eirika, Colm or some SM.

But now that I check the promotional gains, I see the AS different is quite the interfereance...

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

but fe5 has Ronan: a guy who's magic growth is nearly 4 times his str growth

Actually, Ronan has a lot of potential if given the Baldo and Hezul scroll earlygame and then later on you can toss him a Neir scroll(Although this is better to use for Lifis and Pahn when they're deployed) for a pretty good str growth. If the scrolls are used correctly, Ronan can actually be one of your best anti-mages in the team.

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually, Ronan has a lot of potential if given the Baldo and Hezul scroll earlygame and then later on you can toss him a Neir scroll(Although this is better to use for Lifis and Pahn when they're deployed) for a pretty good str growth. If the scrolls are used correctly, Ronan can actually be one of your best anti-mages in the team.

But still, just compare the problems of a guy like Marty with the problems of a guy like Ronan. Hezul + Baldo still only gets him to a 30% str growth. At least Marty can have 40% skill and 45% spd with just two scrolls. It takes 3 scrolls to get Ronan to 40% str. Add Baldo to Marty's scroll collection and he has 45% skill and 50% spd. (As well as still having his +5 skl and +6 spd promotion bonuses). Even if you can make Ronan passable this way (even Tania is a better choice for a long time. It takes forever for Ronan's mag to be meaningful), don't you think if Sety was the late appearing scroll and Noba showed up when Sety normally does that Ronan would be a fair amount better?

(Also think of what you can do with a Karin that has a 55% str growth and 100% hp growth and 30% def growth from those three scrolls. And she has more mag than he does for a long time anyway, and when she's on foot (if you get her to B swords) she can actually make use of her mag stat for more than defence.

[Luftwaffe]

Actually, Ronan has a lot of potential if given the Baldo and Hezul scroll earlygame and then later on you can toss him a Neir scroll(Although this is better to use for Lifis and Pahn when they're deployed) for a pretty good str growth. If the scrolls are used correctly, Ronan can actually be one of your best anti-mages in the team.

nononononon. He still can't capture and is locked to 2 range. Marty will always be better than that pile of horse semen.

Until the day Ronan is forgotten, he will always be shit.

[Anouleth]

Warrior!Garcia is an awful promotion. Garcia has shitty hit to begin with, having axes, so the option to use Killing Edges is highly welcome against other Axe users and Sword users (Sword users in particular since Rangers/Swordmasters/Heroes rape him so thoroughly).

And the 2 AS is very significant. 20/01 Warrior Garcia actually has the same speed as 20/01 GK Gilliam, only with a lower growth, no WTC, and like 8 less defense. Gilliam even has higher resistance. In fact, the only stats Gilliam loses are STR (both have plenty anyway), SKL and LUK (but Gilliam has WTC anyway so he makes up for it).

[Junkhead]

And once again you keep ignoring the fact Swordmasters/Rangers and Heroes appear only for one chapter! Well- Two, but the other are reinforcements at Ch 16, I doubt anyone is placing Garcia there when they could have Gilliam or Duessel tanking the entrance.

Garcia's Hit isn't awful, it's not like enemies have tons of Avo, the only thing he is having trouble hitting are mercenaries and myrmidons, but even then he has around +50% Hit against them earlygame, his Skill growth is actually reliable, too. Don't forget, he gains +2 Skill as both, Hero and Warrior.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

But still, just compare the problems of a guy like Marty with the problems of a guy like Ronan. Hezul + Baldo still only gets him to a 30% str growth. At least Marty can have 40% skill and 45% spd with just two scrolls. It takes 3 scrolls to get Ronan to 40% str. Add Baldo to Marty's scroll collection and he has 45% skill and 50% spd. (As well as still having his +5 skl and +6 spd promotion bonuses). Even if you can make Ronan passable this way (even Tania is a better choice for a long time. It takes forever for Ronan's mag to be meaningful), don't you think if Sety was the late appearing scroll and Noba showed up when Sety normally does that Ronan would be a fair amount better?

(Also think of what you can do with a Karin that has a 55% str growth and 100% hp growth and 30% def growth from those three scrolls. And she has more mag than he does for a long time anyway, and when she's on foot (if you get her to B swords) she can actually make use of her mag stat for more than defence.

30% str growth is still very reasonable for FE5 considering str, just like every other stat is capped at 20 even promoted and keep in mind he begins with 4 str as a level 1. Also remember he has 3 movement stars which means he has a decent chance at being able to re-move compared to most of the cast along with the continue skill(Which, keep in mind will have decent trigger rates because Ronan does get a nice speed growth) and a support from Leaf. Also, Karin can still be given those scrolls on chapters Ronan can't be deployed due to fatigue. And I'm assuming those two scrolls you're talking about for Marty is the Sety and Odo scroll which are both scrolls Ronan doesn't really need because his skill and speed growths are already good

And yeah, I agree Ronan would be better if the Noba and Sety scroll swapped places but then Marty would be 100% impossible to use past earlygame seeing as Marty NEEDS the Sety scroll to have any chance at becoming a decent unit.

[Luftwaffe]

30% str growth is still very reasonable for FE5 considering str, just like every other stat is capped at 20 even promoted and keep in mind he begins with 4 str as a level 1.

Non. 30% growth and 4 base is complete shit for an archer considering how important the enemy phase(lol 1 PCC) is for this game. He'll be stuck with E bows for a long time if you didn't destroy your team feeding him shit and letting him blow it into the air.

Also remember he has 3 movement stars which means he has a decent chance at being able to re-move compared to most of the cast along with the continue skill(Which, keep in mind will have decent trigger rates because Ronan does get a nice speed growth) and a support from Leaf. Also, Karin can still be given those scrolls on chapters Ronan can't be deployed due to fatigue. And I'm assuming those two scrolls you're talking about for Marty is the Sety and Odo scroll which are both scrolls Ronan doesn't really need because his skill and speed growths are already good

Yeah, he might be able to try and escape trouble occasionally because he will be killed with his awesome 2 base def and 5% growth. Continue will let him do like 1-4 more damage which won't kill anything. And Karin gets scrolls when Ronan is fatigued? are you trying saying that favouring the sack of shit Ronan >>> a frail but naturally good unit who can fly? How about fuck you Ronan you piece of garbage. Stop raping my team.

And yeah, I agree Ronan would be better if the Noba and Sety scroll swapped places but then Marty would be 100% impossible to use past earlygame seeing as Marty NEEDS the Sety scroll to have any chance at becoming a decent unit.

Ronan would be a little better but will still be shit because he's an archer. Marty can be given the Odo & Sety scrolls since nobody else really needs them and Wrath works great on him too. He'll be awesome with favouritism while Ronan would just change from being a quick-footed piece of shit to a quick-footed piece of garbage.

[Junkhead]

Once again, derailment by some of the SNES games.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Non. 30% growth and 4 base is complete shit for an archer considering how important the enemy phase(lol 1 PCC) is for this game. He'll be stuck with E bows for a long time if you didn't destroy your team feeding him shit and letting him blow it into the air.

Yeah, he might be able to try and escape trouble occasionally because he will be killed with his awesome 2 base def and 5% growth. Continue will let him do like 1-4 more damage which won't kill anything. And Karin gets scrolls when Ronan is fatigued? are you trying saying that favouring the sack of shit Ronan >>> a frail but naturally good unit who can fly? How about fuck you Ronan you piece of garbage. Stop raping my team

It's good for an archer who has a pretty high magic growth, remember the main focus with Ronan is to make him an anti-mage since this game has TONS of caster enemies.

And no, it's not exactly favoritism. There will be chapters where Karin is fatigued.

I'm not saying Ronan is top tier material it's just that he's incredibly underrated.

[Narga_Rocks]

It's good for an archer who has a pretty high magic growth, remember the main focus with Ronan is to make him an anti-mage since this game has TONS of caster enemies.

And no, it's not exactly favoritism. There will be chapters where Karin is fatigued.

I'm not saying Ronan is top tier material it's just that he's incredibly underrated.

In order for a unit to be underrated, he has to be better than units we think are better than he is. If you make a rating system of 1 to 10 with the intended average being somewhere between 4.5 and 6.5, then even if a unit is "okay", it can still get like a 2 because all the other units are just that much better. The two doesn't make the unit underrated just because he can do something since you can't give a 5+ to everyone without causing your rating system to be put into question. (if you are interested)

[Progenitus]

Colm

Colm is, out of FE6 to FE11, the best thief in terms of combat skills (aside from maybe Sothe, but he blows beyond part 1).

His start is pretty average (he's basically Eirika with no rapier), but with thief EXP bonus he levels up very quickly with a pretty good growth spread (40% str is a bit lacking though). His combat throughout the game is pretty similar to Eirika overall (similar growths, no rapier/Sieglind, but with thief exp bonus and no forced promotion he'll have a level lead to help that), but instead of Eirika relying on a super fast support with the best unit in the game named the assraper Seth, Colm instead is relying on a super fast support with a mediocre unit named Neimi, so that knocks him down a notch. Otherwise he has a +2 support in Moulder (fairly slow, but starts early) and Kyle has backup (another +2 support, except it starts later, and he probably doesn't even want Colm, with Eph/Forde/Lute as better options).

What makes him very good, like the other thieves, is his thieving utility. He's very useful for getting those items. I'm too lazy to look through the game and see what he can get, so I just went to a random debate topic about Colm and c/p a list...

Chapter 3:

-Chests(Javelin, Iron Sword, Iron Lance, Hand Axe) -1 Key

-Doors x2 -1 Key

-Stealing(Antitoxin, Pure Water)

Chapter 4:

-Stealing(Vulnerary)

Chapter 6:

-Fog Of War

Chapter 7:

-Stealing(Energy Ring)

Chapter 8:

-Chests(Silver Sword, Elysian Whip, Angelic Robe)

-Doors x2 -1 Key

Chapter 10 Er

-Stealing?

Chapter 11 Er

-Chests(Restore, Short Spear, Secret Book) -2 Keys

-Fog Of War

Chapter 14 Er

-Doors x7 -4 Keys

-Chests(Guilding Ring, Spear, Hammerne, Swordreaver, Dragon Spear, Energy Ring) -1 Key

-Stealing?

Chapter 9 Eph

-Doors x2 -2 Keys

-Chests(Restore, 2500g, Ocean Seal) -1 Keys

Chapter 11 Eph

-Fog Of War

Chapter 13 Eph

-Stealing(Energy Ring)

Chatper 14 Eph

-Doors x4 -4 Keys

-Chests(Guilding Ring, Halberd, Hammerne, Angelic Robe, Spear) -1 Key

Chapter 15

-Hidden Items(Warp, Body Ring, Silence, Wyrmslayer, Killer Bow, Swiftsole, Eclipse, Metis Tome, Silver Card)

-Stealing(Elixir, Fili Shield, Hoplon Gaurd)

Chapter 16

-Doors x3 -1 Key

-Chests(Tomahawk, Talismen, Knight Crest, 5000g) -1 Key

-Stealing(Vulnerary, Lockpick x2 Elixir, Red Gem)

Chapter 17

-Stealing(Elixir)

Chapter 19

-Fog Of War

-Chests(Rune Sword, Fenrir, Speedwing, Fortify, 5000g, Bolting) -0 Keys

-Stealing(Vulnerary x6, Lockpick x3, Goddess Icon)

Chapter 21

-Doors x2 -2 Keys

-Chests(Angelic Robe, Master Seal) -1 Key

Of course chests can be replicated by keys, but there's a finite amount of them, and no one can even steal (aside from Rennac whose combat is a bigger joke than the Detroit Lions). That's otherwise a lot of stuff he can get. 1 energy ring and a second one on Eph route that can only be obtained by stealing? Colm already gives you +4 str. Putting it on him makes his offense pretty h4x, and you can instead put it on, say, a str screwed Franz, or Joshua, or something. More vision in fog of war is also very helpful. For this reason, promotion to Rogue is pretty obvious, since it frees up a slot in his inventory for no lockpicks (which is nice because this allows more room for, say, slayer weapons, or steal stuff), and silencer sucks balls anyway. I actually don't know too much about assassin (can they even use lockpicks or see through fog?), but regardless, Rogue is the obvious choice.

Honestly, if Neimi was a good unit and it wasn't problematic to field her and get her support, I'd give Colm a 10. However, without her he suffers -3 att/15 crit/1 def/7 avo and actually might care about -15 hit because his skl is terrible, which is pretty big. I think he could still be 9.5 even with that drawback, but I'll be more on the conservative side for now.

9/10

[Mekkah]

Of course chests can be replicated by keys, but there's a finite amount of them

You can buy Chest Keys from the map after Ch9 Eir / Ch10 Eph (AKA the dock chapters). That devalues Colm quite a bit. Also

-Stealing(Elixir, Fili Shield, Hoplon Gaurd)

The shields are dropped.

I actually don't know too much about assassin (can they even use lockpicks or see through fog?

Yes on both counts.

[Colonel M]

aside from Rennac whose combat is a bigger joke than the Detroit Lions

I dunno man, the Detroit Lions are probably the biggest joke team in the NFL.

It is kind of awkward that he can sort of miss (20/1 he has 107 Hit w/Killing Edge I believe), but I can't necessarily disagree with it since enemies likely have over 20 Avoid at the least unless you're something like Mages. Sucks that it greatly affects his crit too.

Assassin is only if you like Silencer tbh, and without Colm's supports he's kind of messy with it. If he has Neimi though it's not something I'd say is terrible since if you pull Silencer off you get a bonus in CEXP.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Tyranel M

[riariadne]

And now we run into a bit of an issue-- who's going to pick this up now that Smash's banned? I'd like to give it a shot, but if anyone really wants to I wouldn't mind letting them take over instead.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Reinfleche

[Anouleth]

Given that Smash hasn't even posted on this for two weeks, I'd say it makes no difference.

[Integrity]

I'd pick it up tbh, but only for FE8. Maybe I'll do that in the morning if nobody else does.

EDIT: Thinking about it more, I'd actually like to officially volunteer to finish Professor Smash's work. And by finish, I mean restart. Because I have no debates I actually care about, I'd finish it too.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Integrity

[Narga_Rocks]

I'd pick it up tbh, but only for FE8. Maybe I'll do that in the morning if nobody else does.

EDIT: Thinking about it more, I'd actually like to officially volunteer to finish Professor Smash's work. And by finish, I mean restart. Because I have no debates I actually care about, I'd finish it too.

Considering smash isn't exactly dead, I say if he wants to continue his ranking topics he can do so on some of the other sites on which he is a member:

gamefaqs, feff, etc.

Then almost anyone can copy + paste. I'd prefer paperblade, but anyone else works as well if he won't do it.

But as has been stated in many different topics: One person having a rating topic does not prevent others from creating their own rating topics for the same game. Check out RD where Red Fox was making one (and occasionally leaves it alone for weeks) even though smash had one already.

[Florete]

Check out RD where Red Fox was making one (and occasionally leaves it alone for weeks) even though smash had one already.

I really should get back to that, especially now that the FE7 tier list shitstorm has ended and I can clear my head up.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Integrity]

But as has been stated in many different topics: One person having a rating topic does not prevent others from creating their own rating topics for the same game. Check out RD where Red Fox was making one (and occasionally leaves it alone for weeks) even though smash had one already.

Good point.

I'll start my awesome one once my Obamabux form is done. :D

[Progenitus]

Artur

Artur is like Lucius, if he was a guy traded overkill pow for supports that give durability.

Artur isn't too bad earlygame. 8 base spd is fine. 10 att hitting res isn't too bad. With 50% mag (good) and 40% spd (okay), his offense should remain decent for the entire game (watch out for spd screwage though).

Durability is a different story, however. He has an incredibly massive 2 base def, with 2 lck so he's actually worried about getting critted. While he can 1-2 range to avoid most counters on player phase, he still can only take 1 hit.

However, supports help his durability a lot, and is pretty much exactly what he needs; def, avo, and crit eva, and every support other than Joshua gives full avo. Lute in particular is very fast, so that's a fairly easy A, and he has Tethys/Cormag/Joshua/Neimi all as backup options. He's still rather frail (for example, 20/1 Artur with A Lute vs 20/1 Joshua with no supports is 1 def + 16 res vs 9 HP, and Joshua isn't known for his durability, let alone unsupported Joshua), but with 1-2 range and being able to use staves post-promotion help that problem.

Promotion choice: Bishop. It has +1 mage over Sage (while sage gets +1 HP and res), and you get slayer and C staves vs C anima and D staves. Anima is nice, but you get some compensation with bishop (+1 mag and slayer) but most importantly you get a head start in building staff rank. A-rank warp may be out of reach, but B-rank physic/rescue and the status staves aren't.

So Artur has decent offense for the entire game. His durability is garbage, though with supports it alleviates that issue (it's still fairly bad though, so he can't solo half the map). Post promotion he gets to also play with staves. A good unit overall.

8/10