Integ's gon' rank the characters!

[Integrity]

? Cormag is incredibly easy to recruit in Eirika mode. The only thing I can see that might make it difficult is if you kill Aias too quickly by accident.

Actually, I frequently do. My first playthrough (first!) I didn't even SEE Cormag because Ross killed Aais too quickly.

The difference between eir!Cormag and eph!Cormag is for Ephraim's you're already pushing the majority of your force south, whence comes Cormag. With Eirika, Cormag decides to come right in behind you and forces you to shift somebody rearwards to grab him - terrible if you forgot him and weren't expecting him, workable if annoying if you were. Plus, in the same chapter you've got Amelia to worry about if you missed her in C9.

[BBM]

Actually, I frequently do. My first playthrough (first!) I didn't even SEE Cormag because Ross killed Aais too quickly.

The difference between eir!Cormag and eph!Cormag is for Ephraim's you're already pushing the majority of your force south, whence comes Cormag. With Eirika, Cormag decides to come right in behind you and forces you to shift somebody rearwards to grab him - terrible if you forgot him and weren't expecting him, workable if annoying if you were. Plus, in the same chapter you've got Amelia to worry about if you missed her in C9.

Yeah, I've killed him ahead of time as well. I've never missed Amelia in 9 though.

You've also got Merc and Fighter reinforcements from the back, so chances are, someone's already there. Like... Eirika, who he's programmed to go towards? She doesn't have the durability to be on the frontline in this chapter anyways.

In Eph, Cormag normally shows up right as I recruit Duessel, who then recruits him.

[Mekkah]

Like... Eirika, who he's programmed to go towards?

I'm quite sure he isn't programmed to fly to Eirika. He's like any enemy that moves initially: fly towards the nearest PC, and attack the weakest one possible, where weakest of course takes into account ability to counterattack.

[BBM]

I'm quite sure he isn't programmed to fly to Eirika. He's like any enemy that moves initially: fly towards the nearest PC, and attack the weakest one possible, where weakest of course takes into account ability to counterattack.

For me, he always goes to Eirika. This might be because I always have her in the back in this chapter. Where else is she going to be anyways? At the front, in this chapter? She could give supports, I guess, but Seth hardly needs it, Ephraim isn't here, Tana isn't going to be at the front in this chapter either, she doesn't have a support built up with L'Arachel and Saleh, and Innes has a good enough player phase offence, so that leaves... Forde, who I suppose could use it.

Or, she could stay just outside Cormag's range and recruit him quicker to finish this chapter quicker. If you wait too long too kill Aias, you pretty much have to ride out the whole chapter.

[Anouleth]

A question for Integ - who would you consider better, Vanessa or Cormag?

Also, I was recently playing through FE8 Eph. Route, and I wanted to test out L'arachel's EXP gain. I was going pretty fast, so L'arachel barely got level 10 by chapter 16, and lacked the staff rank for Warp, and even if she had the rank I wouldn't have wasted it because I need it for later chapters. I generally used her quite heavily as well, having her use up half a Barrier in C14.

If you want to know how fast I was going, Moulder was about level 13 going into chapter 15. He gains exp so slowly, it's ridiculous. One thing I can say in L'arachel's favour is that after promotion she curbstomped him, because she could get better range with Warp. Oh, and 7 move, which makes a surprising amount of difference.

I also tested out Ross. He can get 10/01 by Chapter 6, although 10/01 by Chapter 5 is really pushing it. Slowing down enough for him to gain six levels in Chapter 4 is just not worth it.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Anouleth

[Integrity]

Anouleth: That's actually quite a tough question. Barring the join times, Cormag is the better unit in my opinion. Vanessa loses overall despite the join times because it's Axe Country until C4 (monsters!), so she has C4 and 5, some use in 6 (killing the Bael), etc. Vanessa, nominally, is probably 14 tops when Cormag joins (did I say that?).

L'il V is probably going to get an 8.5 or 8 to Cormag's 9.

Why do you ask?

WRT Cormag himself, I'm pretty sure he doesn't fly to Eirika but it would at least make sense storyline-wise. I'll check sometime if nobody else does.

[Integrity]

(rrrrg fucking mountandblade days feel gone wtf.)

BACK!

I am volunteering to skip Tethys because Dancers are outside of my league to judge. I feel she provides a service that cannot be truly replicated by anybody, and thus - for better or worse - cannot be tiered with them. If you have a problem with this, speak up and tell me why and I might try to give her a writeup, but for now my plans are that a writeup for Tethys wouldn't be satisfying.

That said,

GERIK

Gerik! Everybody loves Gerik, amirite?

Gerik is straight-up, balls-out great. As Mercenaries Dick and Raven before him, he's between great and wonderful until he promotes and then he's better. Gerik also has the unique distinction that, argue as one may that Hero > Ranger or vice versa, you cannot choose poorly for his promotion. Hero gives him access to wonderful, wonderful Axes, and Ranger gives him a pony and access to Bows. The stats for the two are within each other to enough of a point that it really comes down just to Axes v Ponybows.

Speaking of stats, amg. Gerik holds the distinction of being relatively capable of capping HP on average. Only a bare few (in my short scan, only hero!Garcia) even have that little black 60 in their boxes, and it's at 20/20. Several come close, but fall just shy of the mark. Gerik? Shiiiiiit. He has a 90% HP growth. NINETY! That's on par with Kyle, and Kyle is ridiculous. That's not his only point, either - his STR growth is an unremarkable 45, but he starts with a wicked 14 base, with 13 SPD. Essentially, Gerik starts his run able to double many things, with the STR to back it up, making much of what Gerik does a 1RKO -- 3HKO tops. In fact, Gerik's stats are good enough that when you pick him up several chapters later in Ephraim's route, he's still good enough to take the side of the map he spawns on with Tethys in tow and WTD until your cavalry arrives.

Supports? Tell me about it. Gerik's slowest support in his entire list is a 0+3 with fire!Ross, and that's still for good gain. Yes, Gerik's slowest support > Cormag's fastest. Towards his more likely side, he's got a ThunderxFire with Tethys at 30+4 - fast, starts high, and gives him full Crit and Dodge, plus a leashed Dancer to make him kill more. Yesplz. Barring Tethys and Ross, Gerik can go for decently fast supports with Saleh or Joshua for full Crit and Critdodge, or go with Marisa or Innes for full DEF, Dodge, and Critdodge. Gerik doesn't have a less-than-great choice in his list, AND they're fast building, AND he's foot-bound unlike some, making supports easier to justify since he's not ranging out as much.

Gerik even has the decency to use the Hero Crest to promote, and the only other person who's likely to use that is Joshua. Not only that, but he even WALKS IN with his Hero Crest, like "here doods I brought this because I'm awesome. don't want to promote me yet? s'all cool, you'll get another soon and this one promotes my bud Josh anyhow" Boomdya.

Gerik's only problem? He doesn't FLY.

9.0

[Rewjeo]

What are you talking about? Have you seen him crit? He totally flies.

[Integrity]

What are you talking about? Have you seen him crit? He totally flies.

Lies. He jumps very high. Can Ike fly? Can Shinon fly? Can Mario fly normally?

[Life]

Lies. He jumps very high. Can Ike fly? Can Shinon fly? Can Mario fly normally?

Depends on what you mean by normally.

Sagi can fly. He can also jump very high. Is he only allowed to do one thing or the other?

Edited April 7, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Integrity]

Depends on what you mean by normally.

Sagi can fly. He can also jump very high. Is he only allowed to do one thing or the other?

Gerik has proven his ability to jump very high. He has not proven his ability to fly. Mario has proven his ability to jump ver high without assistance. Mario has not shown us he can fly without special devices.

[Junkhead]

Gerik's score sure does fly...

[Integrity]

Gerik's score jumps very high. 9 is not a flying score. It's a flier's score, but not a flying score.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Integrity

[Junkhead]

Gerik is ridiculous. =)

[H3X/AntiStyle]

Basically. Even when you just plain decide not to use him for a chapter or two, it still seems like he's outshining a unit or two out there. Not to mention the fact that he's a Hero, which I consider to be one of the best foot units in the series, on average. :)

[Parrhesia]

I love how Gerik's bases are almost as good as Innes' TEN LEVELS BELOW HIM.

[Anouleth]

Gerik just reminds me of how much I hate Ranger. The class is fine, but it's so much inferior to Nomad Trooper (crappy animation, less move, takes more penalty from forests), it disgusts me. The worst part is I generally pick it over Hero anyway since I prefer the promotion bonuses.

[Integrity]

crappy animation,

WHAT.

Ranger animations CRUSH Nomads and Nomad Troopers in awesomeness. :(

Anyway, watch this space - Innes today.

INNES

I don't hate Innes, oddly. This realization is partially what sparked my acceptance that I may have been wrong about Saleh, because Saleh is close to Innes. Why's it odd? He's a pre-promote. Everybody knows the only pre-promotes I tolerate from the GBA days are Sages and Louise. Louise > Innes for reasons I can't explain because to be honest I haven't ever checked up on, but I think it has a lot to do with her panic attack when Lord Pent is wounded.

Innes the unit? Innes' biggest problem is that he's already a Sniper, and with this game's advent of Ranger there's really no place for a poor old Sniper anymore. Innes is stuck to 2-range forever, essentially, unless he uses Longbows, which give him YEY 3RANGE. 'course, Innes' stats aren't actually all *that* bad - he's actually doubling and killing most of the units in his joining chapter, Ephraim OR Eirika - and unless you trained Neimi he's your only bow user, barring a really fast Gerik promotion. So Innes will probably actually see some action even in a regular playthrough, being useful for the fliers in 12 and 15, wtfpwning the other archers in 14, and being durable enough to help out in 13, all Eirika's route.

Ephraim's route he suffers a little, falling under the Saleh problem. He joins in C15, at level 3, with only Saleh and Eirika for support. However, like Saleh, he's tough enough to escort Eirika down to your starting quadrant while tanking the PKs that follow you south. The point I'm trying to make it, unlike some below him, Innes has a reason to be deployed in most runs at some point.

Should he be used religiously? Naw. For a point of comparison, let's throw Neimi out there. I'll even make it sniper!Neimi, just to make it easier. 20/1 Neimi beats --/1 Innes in everything except DEF, and she's got her own promotion item to boot. 20/1 Neimi by C10 is probably a little out of the realm of possibility (lol.) but 20/3 Neimi by C15 Ephraim isn't inconceivable, if you're using her. Obviously, Innes gets points for not having to be trained those 8 levels and, let's face it, there aren't many (any?) fliers before you get him on Eirika's route until C9. On the other hand, Neimi can promote to Ranger and be a pretend-Gerik without eating a Hero's Crest, so that's that.

Supports, Innes isn't as abrasive a fellow as he looks. He's got a support with Tana, one with Vanessa, and one with Gerik that all build fast enough to be used normally. 'course, the problem is Tana and Vanessa both fly and neither one is going to stick around him very much due to his land-boundedness. Gerik, as discussed above, is workable. Innes doesn't lose any points for supports, but I don't think he deserves to gain any either. He DOES have three romantic endings in his list, though, which is notable for the game.

So what's Innes give us? He's an archer who doesn't need to be trained, with great stats for when he joins in Eirika's route and passing stats in Ephraim's, and a mediocre supports list that at least isn't bad. He doesn't suffer in the endgame as much as some, though, and for that I give him...

6.5

Edited April 8, 2010 by Integrity

[Anouleth]

Innes gets pretty much exclusive access to Nidhogg as well, since it would be pretty silly to field him and Neimi in the same playthrough.

[Integrity]

Innes gets pretty much exclusive access to Nidhogg as well, since it would be pretty silly to field him and Neimi in the same playthrough.

Touché.

[_____]

I'd put Neimi at some point near Levels 15-18 at Chapter 15, honestly. She can still promote by then and get a horse, but 20/3 seems a little bit bloated to me.

[Parrhesia]

Innes gets pretty much exclusive access to Nidhogg as well, since it would be pretty silly to field him and Neimi in the same playthrough.

*cough*

Yeah, training Ross and Neimi simultaneously was really painful.

Still dunno why I did it, though.

[BBM]

Neimi's not that bad if you're fielding Colm.

I'm staying out of the Ross point, because people obviously don't believe that there's a good reason to abuse him and slow down in Chapter 3 and 4.

[Anouleth]

You don't need to slow down that much, unless you really care about him being 10/1 in C5. It's not that important, since 4 AS is all he needs to double soldiers and everything else is out of his range. Now, 10/1 in C6 is something you should be aiming for.

If you find that training Ross slows you down too much, I'd say that you're using Seth heavily, in which case you could say the same for anyone but high tiers like Franz.

Oh, and Ninji underrates Neimi's level gain. You should have promoted all characters by C15.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Anouleth

[Parrhesia]

I was fielding Colm, but not supporting.

And training two weak characters in Normal Mode when you could probably just race across the map and seize...yeah.