BBM Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Wait what How did Objection go all the way to the bottom of the list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 We haven't had the Tracker claim yet. That should be one of Prims/Darros/Kay/Shinori, as those slots haven't claimed yet. Their inactivity is slightly frustrating because PoE is giving me the feeling that those last three might be the scumteam. We're not lynching by PoE on Day fucking two. Don't you remember the motk game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 That was different because: a) Their PoE sucked and was based off bad usage of meta. b) I still think Kay and Darros are the scummiest players itg. c) I rule and always catch all the scums through PoE always. Town me SB Kirsche- I don't think there's scum intent in engineering a plan that could lead to a third of the game getting cleared, even if it cost the town most of their roles. Leaning Town Refa- Mostly just based on good play, particularly for his first game ever. Not the best reason, which is why he's here and not up there. Strege- Explained earlier about tone, plus the blocked NK theory. Prims- Blocked NK theory, okay play when he was there, and plus I think town would be more likely than scum to sub out over the events at the end of D1. Null Objection- No idea what to make here atm. He also could have blocked the NK. If Darros gets lynched and flips the Godfather Ninja, he's probably town. Elie- No clue whatsoever. I think scum!Elie tends to have more fluffy posts with less content in them? Can't remember; it's been a while since I've played with scum!Elie. Scorri/Shinori- Not enough posts to tell. Scum Darros- Explained. Kay- Explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 kirsche Post: (now with 53% more calcium!) --Vote on Prims is weird because Prims was being weird. Feels like trying to get blood out of a stone.--Returning his vote to Elie seems meh-bad because Elie didn't push his roleplan after having some of his false notions of the setup cleared up. Elie wasn't super clear about rescinding any ideas though. I think the reiteration of the overreaction point is okay. --I ask kirsche for reads and he produces them. Terra read doesn't pop out as bad, though I'm a little wary of the scorri read as I mentioned earlier because it wasn't supported and came right after I made that case.--Votes Objection, saying Elie lynch would be bad. Says he's burnt out and so doesn't provide more reasoning on Objection. Actually not finding this suspicious because I feel like scum would contrive something original, even if RL is an issue.--scorri explanation in post 333 is okay, but I'm still weird about it. The read on Kay here just looks at the vote and not the style or Terra read. Do you have any other comments on that based on what other people have said, kirsche? Also, what do you find scummy about Elie right now?--Some pokes at Refa, Objection, and I. These initially pinged me as feeling out newly vulnerable cases (so to speak I guess; mostly the poke at Refa and myself; for example the Refa poke happened after I posted my case against him) but that was probably bad on my end. Not suspicious to me.Well that was anticlimactic; my scumvibes weren't very justified I suppose. I think this is only on the scummier side of the writhing no man's land of nullreadery, but when you get a chance I'd appreciate it if you would address what you can in the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Wait what How did Objection go all the way to the bottom of the list? --When I voted him I thought Gregor and Kay were scummier than him. I explained the reasoning for that at the time, and I think made it pretty explicit. --I think I got so used the the idea that he was scummy that I forgot that most of my issues with him had dissolved either through rereading or Objection explaining something. --The point that no one but me was defending him from the lynch, and no one tried to shift the wagon elsewhere, at the end of D1 (a point which I forgot) really looks townie to me. I realize it's not really a good piece of evidence from anyone's perspective but my own. --You read my Objection Post and the bit about Objection in my post before it brah? My order of scumreads remains btw. Prolly put kirsche in above Objection, but wouldn't support a lynch on either of them today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I skimmed read your posts, I just found it weird that he went from vote-worthy to would vote four other people before him that quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I skimmed read your posts, I just found it weird that he went from vote-worthy to would vote four other people before him that quickly. He went from third vote-priority to fifth because I lost track of his actual content, and then down to sixth. I voted him for funsies (I did have some reasoning but yeah). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 This is the "I should read more before posting" post. This is what I get for skimming past long posts. Anyways, after reading everyone's reasons for voting Darros, I feel a bit more confident in voting him. ##Vote: Gregor While his posts are a bit lazy as I mentioned, he appears to have left some questionable remarks. I'll stick to this vote for now until he gives a satisfying explanation or I find a better target. honestly i'm getting massive scumvibes from this post, it's literally piggybacking off of everyone else's reasoning and provides nothing himself probably worth saying my activity will probably be a little lower because i'm stuck puppysitting for most of the day monday-thursday, but not rein-4-posts levels of inactivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 still fine with lynching darros too though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 honestly i'm getting massive scumvibes from this post, it's literally piggybacking off of everyone else's reasoning and provides nothing himself probably worth saying my activity will probably be a little lower because i'm stuck puppysitting for most of the day monday-thursday, but not rein-4-posts levels of inactivity. idk, it just passes on posting style and lack of reading for me. Also we've pretty much said everything there is to say on Gregor based on his current content, I think. He should say what stands out to him specifically as scummy when he comes back though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Crap I misread the last votals. Gregor is at L-1, so##UnvoteThis way someone else can vote here if they want and if they know they're not going to be around for phase end (I'm guessing a bunch of people are in the latter category at least). It also prevents someone from coming in without reading and hammering halfway through the day. You can just pretend my vote is here anyway, since I find Gregor to be the scummiest player right now. The "Can we just lynch BBM so that I can have the highest postcount?" Unofficial Votecount Kay (1): BBM Darros/Gregor (4): kirshe, Refa, Elie, Objection (L-2) Objection (1): SB Voteless Scum: Objection, Shinori, Prims, KayVoteless Obvtown: Strege In Need Of Subs: Prims With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 kirsche Post: (now with 53% more calcium!) --Vote on Prims is weird because Prims was being weird. Feels like trying to get blood out of a stone. Not really sure how to respond to this. You don't know these things unless you try, I'm not going to overlook poor play because someone is being stubborn. --Returning his vote to Elie seems meh-bad because Elie didn't push his roleplan after having some of his false notions of the setup cleared up. Elie wasn't super clear about rescinding any ideas though. I think the reiteration of the overreaction point is okay. There wasn't anyone scummier than Elie at the time so I felt he was teh best vote. --Votes Objection, saying Elie lynch would be bad. Says he's burnt out and so doesn't provide more reasoning on Objection. Actually not finding this suspicious because I feel like scum would contrive something original, even if RL is an issue. I said no such thing as "Elie lynch would be bad", I said "Objection is a better lynch". --scorri explanation in post 333 is okay, but I'm still weird about it. The read on Kay here just looks at the vote and not the style or Terra read. Do you have any other comments on that based on what other people have said, kirsche? Also, what do you find scummy about Elie right now? I'm not seeing the Kay case at all, I'm not interpreting her post as scummy. WRT Elie the problems I had with him D1 haven't gone away. Rereading I'm finding his #369 a bit on the opportunistic side, he's jumping to a conclusion over something very little and kinda obvious. Also I agree with BBM, your objection! stuff today feels like backtracking for not a lot of reason. Out of those 8 bullet points you made for him, most are null/asking for clarification. Your 1st point is like "oh he has new stuff that's good" but then goes "oh but Elie and Terra were easy targets so hmmm" which just reads as distancing. Your point about how noone was really defending him kinda holds, but activity this game has been poor and I'm not convinced scum wouldn't just try to throw him under the bus. Every time I read this: If you want to criticize me for waffling go look at the end of D1 where I was actually waffling. It looks worse to me. This isn't defending yourself, this is just going "oh I was worse earlier" and the tone reads defensive. It's true that you have been hesitant about Objection but the way you're doing it feels off and there's all these little things about you which are bugging me. ##Unvote ##Vote: Strege Darros seems inactive atm anyway and you are scummy. Will look into your D1 again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Pardon me about saying you said Elie was a bad lynch -- I confused it with Prims's/my/whoever's sentiment. Anyway, your response makes enough sense to me wrt my read. I don't think the criticism of my Objection post being focused on null stuff / points of clarification is effective. I do the same in my post about you. In both cases I'd found a person scummy without sufficiently justifying it, then go back and find that my suspicion isn't as justifiable as I thought. That's why I'm not scumreading you or Objection. The null points express an opinion and show my thought process, so I don't see how they would be scummy. I don't think the criticism of my first point on Objection is good either, for the same reason, and I don't understand how it's distancing. Fair enough about the "no one is defending Objection thing" possibly not meaning anything -- I'm paranoid of me making a mistake by considering it, but even if I took it as null Objection would still be a nullread or thereabouts. When I said to go look at my late D1 for waffling on Objection, I meant that me expressing fear of an Objection mislynch is an extension of that discussion (in which I did actually waffle on Objection), so I really did want you to go look at it and present a full case if you found it scummy. I was a bit jokey with the tone, which is why I added the smiley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I don't think the criticism of my Objection post being focused on null stuff / points of clarification is effective. I do the same in my post about you. In both cases I'd found a person scummy without sufficiently justifying it, then go back and find that my suspicion isn't as justifiable as I thought. That's why I'm not scumreading you or Objection. The null points express an opinion and show my thought process, so I don't see how they would be scummy. I don't see why the points you made in your post turn Objection! from scummy --> mostly null though. With me it's different because I got the impression that the feeling was new and that you were just looking into it more. I don't think the criticism of my first point on Objection is good either, for the same reason, and I don't understand how it's distancing. It's like you're keeping the point as neutral as possible. Do you think that the post in mention is good or bad? When I said to go look at my late D1 for waffling on Objection, I meant that me expressing fear of an Objection mislynch is an extension of that discussion (in which I did actually waffle on Objection), so I really did want you to go look at it and present a full case if you found it scummy. I was a bit jokey with the tone, which is why I added the smiley. Pardon me, my sense of humour is pretty bad so I'm not going to catch jokes. Mafia is serious business after all. Consistent waffling is better than inconsistent waffling, but it's waffling nonetheless and it looks really non-committal. D1 reread will probably come tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 This post is all @kirsche. Firstly, I forgot to mention that the reason that I structured the sentence "If you want to criticize me for waffling go look at the end of D1 where I was actually waffling." in such a way as to imply that me saying "even though I'm scared of another mislynch on you" wasn't waffley was because I think it was more distancing than waffling, if anything, though it did stem from a waffley standpoint on Objection (more on this in a bit). Not sure how relevant it is but you said that sentence was bothering you, so I want to clarify my intent. Addressing your three paragraphs of response:--Objection asked me why I thought he was scummy and I realized I couldn't answer that off the top of my head (post 371). All I remembered was a bad position on Elie, sparse reads, and some general dodginess around the lynch mostly in his use of language. So I checked. I forgot that the Elie position was explained to my satisfaction, and I noticed that Objection was just inactive when his vote was lingering on Elie (he said he was purposely inactive to protect his role which I still don't know what to make of -- it looks bad in general but was presented genuinely, so I'm going null on it) and on a reread the supposed Kay deflection didn't look like deflection to me. I do explain that second and third point in my Objection Post. The language stuff and inactivity are still there, but it's no different than the language in Touhou so I don't treat that as a good premise for suspicion. Then I remembered the point of no one acting in his defense late D1 except myself, which I treated as a strong townie point (not 100% on it right now, but like I said ignoring it wouldn't move Objection above the nullread category for me). --Good, by a little bit.--If by the first part you mean I'm not taking some things in this game very seriously then you're right. Apologies if I'm being aggressive or flippant about it -- I really don't mean to be, and if you point out anything specific I will try not to repeat it. Regarding the read, I wanted you to go back and look at the context of my attitude toward Objection. Waffling is often scummy, and I admit I've been waffling, but a townie can waffle. I was and am asking you to look at my interactions with Objection, my behaviour around the lynch, and the way in which I was waffling, and consider my reasoning and mindset as well as the scum advantages and scum disadvantages associated with such behaviour. I can't argue against "Strege is being weirdly hesitant about Objection" because that's true, but I think it's also kind of a shallow argument and that I can defend myself better against a deeper argument in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 "Strege is being weirdly hesitant about Objection" My paraphrasing of your argument here is bad, but to the extent that I presently understand the point I do think it's a bit shallow. You said you were going to look at my D1 though, so I will reevaluate this when you build on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Either way we have confirmed town in either Objection or Prims+Strege, more inclined to believe the latter for now. I'm confused, why is it or? Couldn't it theoretically be both? We're not lynching by PoE on Day fucking two. Don't you remember the motk game? PoE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 SB was only identifying confirmed town. I think the following is true:If Objection flipped scum then Prims and I would be confirmed town (because Objection wouldn't have blocked the kill, I would have had to be the one to block it, making me the town!doc and Prims the target). If Prims flipped scum then I think that would make Objection confirmed town (because Prims wasn't the target) and Gregor confirmed scum and me still up in the air, and if I flipped scum then Objection would have had to have blocked the kill making him confirmed town and Gregor confirmed scum. It's possible that Objection, Prims, and I are all town though.PoE = Process of Elimination. My understanding of it is that it's when you have a bunch of clears or townreads and start voting or lynching the null people for a lack of particularly townie qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 ALSO Gregor should claim asap I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Can i request a mass modkill on all inactives this is horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) The "Look At All These Inactives" Votecount Kay (1): BBM Gregor (3): Refa, Elieson, Objection, Objection! (1): SB, Strege (1): kirsche, Voteless Scum: Shinori, Prims, Kay, Gregor, Strege, In Need Of Subs: Prims With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch! There are less then 23 hours remaining! @Mods, can mafia kill and use their roles in the same night? The only non-killing, non-passive roles they have are daytime roles. They are only limited to one kill per night. I am seriously contemplating just killing this game. Motivation to mod a game with only 2/3ds of the players active is dwindling. Edited August 12, 2013 by NekoRex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Shinori, Kay, and Gregor have been prodded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 SB was only identifying confirmed town. I think the following is true: If Objection flipped scum then Prims and I would be confirmed town (because Objection wouldn't have blocked the kill, I would have had to be the one to block it, making me the town!doc and Prims the target). If Prims flipped scum then I think that would make Objection confirmed town (because Prims wasn't the target) and Gregor confirmed scum and me still up in the air, and if I flipped scum then Objection would have had to have blocked the kill making him confirmed town and Gregor confirmed scum. It's possible that Objection, Prims, and I are all town though. PoE = Process of Elimination. My understanding of it is that it's when you have a bunch of clears or townreads and start voting or lynching the null people for a lack of particularly townie qualities. There is one more possibility: If Elie the BPV was the target, that means nobody blocked the kill. I probably should ask right now. @NekoRex: Do you give a notice to the BPV if it's been hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 There is one more possibility: If Elie the BPV was the target, that means nobody blocked the kill. I probably should ask right now. @NekoRex: Do you give a notice to the BPV if it's been hit? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Course, we'd be able to tell by tomorrow if the BVP's been hit or not, telling by if someone actually had it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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