I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[Elieson]

I figured I'd spoil this quote-response dump, since it's a lot bigger than I expected it to be, even after trimming the fat

@Elieson: I believe I've said in previous posts that I thought a 1x shot role was pretty week, esp. wrt to my role. You can ISO me, it's in one of my posts.

Still, not really sure how you'd get that out of the other 14 roles in the game, you can determine how balanced yours is just by a hunch, unless you'd have something to compare it to aside from your own role.

My night action failed and using it in the future has been delayed "until further notice" apparently.

By any chance were you targeting me? Most actions that target me will fail due to my role.

THIS IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL. Clarity would be appreciated demanded, as of approximately yesterphase.

If Euklyd unvoting Phoenix for claiming Twatguard (which I already discussed my issues with before) is an objectionably townie move, I don't see why you're voting Iris for claiming an easily proveable role (especially since it's relatively easier to decipher the scum/town intent in a Vig-Shot than in a Doc Protect)? I dunno, it just seems like FYPOV it'd make more sense to vote me considering your associative reads, but maybe I'm thinking too much into this.

Maybe it's because I'm biased towards myself (the greatest Mafia player of all time), but I don't really get your associative reads regarding me and Iris? Well, the rereading thing makes sense, because I tend not to read my scumbuddies because /effort. But like why would I not want her to claim yesterday if she was going to claim at the beginning of today anyways? It'd be pointless.

Self-meta analysis isn't doing anything

Iris didn't say anything about planning to claim ED2. So unless you've just slipped that she said this in scumchat yesterday, the logic in this defense doesn't hold.

Legit makes sense

I can confirm this, yeah. That's really annoying. ;/


@eclipse: WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY
I believe you're town because of your role, but I think turbolynching pheonix was a bad idea. You defended, in my eyes, the scummiest player in my game and ended up getting our doc lynched instead. We weren't going to universal loss, so the only reason you used your power was to redirect a FFM lynch to someone else. Who claimed a defender role which wasn't countered at all.

Reading my own posts, I didn't realize I was tunneling as hard as I was. That makes things extra awkward considering I was calling out Eurykins for tunneling. Note to self: Post Preview.



Just from this there are some people I could assume don't have the vig shot, ie Elieson and Euklyd.


The problem I have here is that people ((notably bearclaw but I have got this vibe from others)) seem to be very dismissive of FFM because "wow FFM is too obvious so therefore he isn't scum"


I think eclipse is still obv!town, shinori I have no idea and I wouldnt say its obvious. I don't see eclipse's power being anything the mafia would have. The people who died seemed fairly townie though by consensus, bearclaw definitely did. Maybe the obv!town vibe you were getting weren't as strong to the mafia.
Reading ISOs: The people who didn't seem to agree that Shinori was obv!town were just Iris and FFM.I see almost nothing on eclipse.

Right now I'm really doubting Refa's townieness due to his case on Pheonix yesterday, he seemed to really jump the opportunity to make Pheonix seem scummy, then Pheonix of course flips town. No one seems to have acknowleged this yet today.

I can confirm that I may or may not have this Medkit. You should probably keep those assumptions to yourself though.

IMO bear was reading null. Dunno where your townread on him shot up from

Why is eclipse still obvitown?

You're roleblocked indefinitely?


Does your role literally block people who target you till a certain time in the game? Cause if so that's something I would think you should tell people sooner so that people don't risk losing their roles indefintely.

Something about this just isn't setting well with me, in combination with the FFM post above

You guys REALLY failed at reading my final post - did you see the words "troll twist"? My role is a two-part role, and to unlock the second part, I had to target a town protective role. Phoenix had claimed one-shot OMNIGUARD (bearclaw was the doctor, folks), so I figured I'd either get the other half of my role, or I'd get someone who was lying about his role. Furthermore, that lynch redirect worked in LYLO and variants; therefore, I could either use it to get a lynch off of myself lategame and screw everyone over, or hit GP during MYLO and win it for scum. I burned it D1 precisely to avoid this nonsense.

Like we were supposed to assume that the troll twist involved an alleged townie being told to start killing other townies. You really overestimate our psychic abilities, just saiyan

Now, onto today's content.


Part 1: Dunno why you'd say that unless you're a bomb or something (in which case, you should've said something earlier).
Part 2: What part of one-shot did you not see in my role? Until RIGHT NOW, I made everyone think that I had used my shot and was essentially vanilla. 'sides, Eurykins probably wasn't being lynched, and after GP reminded me of the hated modifier on bearclaw, I was less inclined to lynch him.

So, is your list of "People I would use my ability on" equal to "People I want to see lynched? Because your ability is pretty darn antitown, and now I am struggling to figure out what your D1 reads were associated to.

- If Frosty's self-safeguard is permanent (as opposed to X-shot, like what I do with nexuses), he should've said something D1; if it delays actions indefinitely (regardless of whether or not it's passive or active), his silence shifts to outright scummy.

Part of me isn't liking FFM any more because of the confusion regarding his own role, the watcher (who claimed two posts and 10 minutes before he started blathering on about trackers), and the negative utility that just should've outright been shared. This, is a sentiment that I share.

Current lynch priority is Wen > Refa/Euklyd > FFM > everyone else.

Also, thank you for providing a current lynch priority. Is this an actual lynch priority though, or a "People I'd use my role on again, since I just outted that there's more to my role" priority.

Yeah, I bet it's Reflexive PR Giver.

best role of 2014 to date, HostMeta with SB obviously shows that he'd use the role again right? y/y

2. If your role is going to screw over night-targeting roles for multiple nights, you damn well say something. If it's an active ability, then I think FFM activating it on D1, after being a hot topic of discussion, makes him look worse. Chances are, someone is going to target the guy that was almost lynched, and it's either going to be a vig shot or an investigative role.

This statement is a correct statement. HOWEVER; You should practice your own advice Unless you had to turbolynch the player before they used up their powers, because cutting off town's protection for your own self benefit isn't something helping town in the long run, now that you've painted a big red target on your forehead and gotten under the skin of most of the players in the game.

---

OK now that that's out, I'm gonna go load up on some medicine because I'm feeling really cruddy again.

New thoughts though;

►eclipse is irritating be to no end, and I might just be more susceptile to irritants today because of my stomach, but I'm pretty confident that she's not scum (though maybe a glorified negative utility of town that maybe is good for town in the long run? idk). Just assume that all my vents and things at eclipse right now are just that, vents and things..

►Poly needs a sub, I can't read that slot even when he was around, and he's not around for this phase (and with a move, I have a gut feeling that he might not be too available later on)
►Iris....I'm still really confused on her now.
▼FFM managed to respond in the weirdest way to the disabling thing and Darros (how he thinks Darros is telling the truth about targeting him and failing and not believing it, and then having Darros hit home for top townreads, then worries about him again. Overall reactions are strange

▼Euk still needs to go, because contradictions in his own defense of his phnx vote are bad and he should feel bad.

If you don't have a fancy arrow next to your name, I'm not that concerned about you for whatever reason

For now I'm happy keeping my vote on Euklyd, but think Frosty has some serious explaining to do too

@GP, do you think eclipse is scum?

@Darros, you've got two listed scumreads, and you're not voting for either of them. Mind giving an actual reason as to why, instead of just saying that you're not comfortable with it?

[Shinori]

Okay so I'm here and stuff.

Elie needs to do more, there isn't that much from him at the moment but I saw him here just a bit ago so I'll wait and see if anything comes from him in a bit.

Kopf's response to Eclipse seems weird. One little case and the response is "I can prove my claim easily if driven to it." He seems really panicky at the moment. I'm not quite sure if I would relate that to scumminess though or not. I also don't entirely think the ability to have an easily provable role is entirely townie either. If he's being lazy with his reads and gameplay solely because he has an easily provable role then I don't entirely agree with it.

@Refa: Since you are scum reading Darros; what is your opinion on him losing his role? Also why is Darros a better lynch than FFM or Poly according to you?

Still really don't like FFM's way of handling his role. He never said his role was an active ability which makes me think his self-safeguard thing is a passive role which I honestly felt should have been claimed yesterday since he was a leading wagon. Eclipse already touched on this though.

I'm gonna say that I'm really uncomfortable with FFM though. His role is something that SK's and what not tend to get if I am right in thinking about that. And as far as I'm concerned there were two kills last night and Iris GAVE OUT a vig shot so I'm gonna assume that there wasn't a vig existant last night and I'm kind of going off of gut + logic.

@FFM: Outside of Poly who would you prefer to lynch? What other scumreads do you have? Respond to this when you get a chance.

Since FFM won't be back for a while though I'm gonna move my vote elsewhere and I'll get him when he comes back.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Kopf

Gonna have to agree that his posts don't really look good. They are basically list posts of a skim, this is basically what Eclipse said and it's true. I want to see some actual content coming from Kopf.

Pedit: cut by Elie will read this in a bit. I'll be here on and off for now, playing some Hearthstone/league while reading Elie's post and chillin'.

[SB.]

Someone left me a message stating that there were 10 townies alive at the beginning of the night; thanks to the kills, it is now eight. Also, I'd appreciate it if BBM would say WHAT in the rules changed, as that's kind of a long list.

The rule that stated that there were no items in the game was removed.

[euklyd]

YO GUYS IRIS' CLAIM IS PROBABLY LEGIT

Cool.

Is not necessarily a town role, but it's probably not mafia imo.

anyways I had this post (or most of it) typed up last night and then my internet derped so I went to bed.

You mean this post, Clipsey? Dang, I must have missed it...

Still keeping my vote on him for now.

"I don't want to lynch people who might argue" - FFM

this Poly vote is a really shitty vote. FFM reads like scum that doesn't know where to put his vote or how to case anyone, and just kinda goes after inactives.

1) So you think town has zero kills?

2) Pretty sure both of the NKed people were scumreading FFM.

3) It would've been easier to push FFM without being noticed.

1) Eclipse is basically a phase-ending dayvig. It combines Governor with dayvig, basically; seems like a killing role to me.

HOWEVER what I meant by the thing you quoted was that I don't think that both Iris and ~whoever did the second nightkill~ are both town, not necessarily that both are anti-town (they could be, but I really dunno).

2) I saw this from GP as well, it should stop. Unless you want to think that the scumteam has two nightkills, and killed two people because of their reads, it's not even killspec, it's dumbspec.

3) Who are you talking about here? Easier for you, or easier for ~someone else~?

anyways Kopf really needs to get some content; right now he's looking pretty damn scummy. My only issue with a Kopf lynch is that his content is always abysmal (in my experience). not sure that he deserves today's lynch, though, since Frosty Fire Mafia is a thing and Kopf is not looking much more scummy than he is when he's been town (he just doesn't have a role to coast on).

FFM > Kopf ≥ Iris ≥ [inactives] > others >> Shinori ≈ Eclipse*

FFM > Kopf ≥ [inactives] ≥ Iris > others >> Shinori ≈ Eclipse*

**post Iris confirmation**

also @Kopf - finals are in like three weeks, but I've got a pretty annoying schedule even without them getting in the way.

[Refa]

Part 2: What part of one-shot did you not see in my role? Until RIGHT NOW, I made everyone think that I had used my shot and was essentially vanilla. 'sides, Eurykins probably wasn't being lynched, and after GP reminded me of the hated modifier on bearclaw, I was less inclined to lynch him.

Where was this? Because I didn't see it.

If you think it's likely a scum role, you may as well tell us what it is. Wen doesn't need to confirm it.

Also, Refa, why is Iris so close to the end of your lynch priority? It's not as though her claim has been verified.

Bus Driver. The only thing bothering me is I'm not sure how much SB influenced the setup, since BBM definitely has had Town Drivers in the past.

Generally that's where town reads go. :3 If her claim is proven to be false (not entirely the reason I'm townreading her), then I'll edit my priorities accordingly. PEdit: Claim basically modconfirmed. Go me.

With the lack of suspicion on Eury D1, I think either bear was SK'ed and Eury was NK'ed, or Eury was SK'ed, bear was misvigged, and either bear doc'ed the NK/Eury hooked the NKer. And, judging from the confirmed PRs, I'm more inclined to believe Darros' claim than not right now.

. . .And that's all I'm getting from this list.

Your night kill spec confuses me. Considering you're assuming the existence of an SK AND a Vigilante (one I can understand, but that just seems like a leap of logic from your end), I don't understand why those are the only two possibilities.

IMO bear was reading null. Dunno where your townread on him shot up from

You just answered your own question, am I right or am I right?

@Refa: Since you are scum reading Darros; what is your opinion on him losing his role? Also why is Darros a better lynch than FFM or Poly according to you?

Still really don't like FFM's way of handling his role. He never said his role was an active ability which makes me think his self-safeguard thing is a passive role which I honestly felt should have been claimed yesterday since he was a leading wagon. Eclipse already touched on this though.

Overall, I believe Darros has handled claiming his role pretty poorly. Firstly, I don't see why he needed to claim anything other than blocked/delayed/whatever-the-fuck-happened-to-him. I still have no idea what exactly happened to him during last night, and it's extremely annoying. Like how hard is it to know what your role is and what happened to you over the last night? I felt like he was a better lynch than FFM simply because FFM being so obviously scummy was rather annoying and I wasn't sure what to think of it...then I reread FFM over the night and...well, you'll see in my next post. Definitely scummier than Poly though, because he's been around more and provided less content with more filler.

Agreed on the second part.

1) Eclipse is basically a phase-ending dayvig. It combines Governor with dayvig, basically; seems like a killing role to me.

HOWEVER what I meant by the thing you quoted was that I don't think that both Iris and ~whoever did the second nightkill~ are both town, not necessarily that both are anti-town (they could be, but I really dunno).

2) I saw this from GP as well, it should stop. Unless you want to think that the scumteam has two nightkills, and killed two people because of their reads, it's not even killspec, it's dumbspec.

3) Who are you talking about here? Easier for you, or easier for ~someone else~?

1) No? She's a Governor...not a DayVig (did I miss something?). Fair enough on the second bit.

2) Yeah, you're right.

3) Easier for me.

[euklyd]

1) No? She's a Governor...not a DayVig (did I miss something?). Fair enough on the second bit.

I thought Governor only prevented the lynch and ended the phase? This basically says "no we lynch who I want" ("and I eat their power and grow stronger yet!").

[Darros]

>7 people have quoted you
rip in peace me
reading time

[MRDRHAWK]

just wanted to let you guys know that I am reading the thread on my phone and will make a detailed post when I can get at a computer again

[Green Poet]

@GP, do you think eclipse is scum?

It's possible. I can see how someone of any alignment would make the play she did, but it seems antitown to me in the long run.

You should practice your own advice Unless you had to turbolynch the player before they used up their powers, because cutting off town's protection for your own self benefit isn't something helping town in the long run, now that you've painted a big red target on your forehead and gotten under the skin of most of the players in the game.

Are you speculating about SK!eclipse?

Generally that's where town reads go. :3 If her claim is proven to be false (not entirely the reason I'm townreading her), then I'll edit my priorities accordingly. PEdit: Claim basically modconfirmed. Go me.

Yet you decided to put her as a worse lynch target than myself? A vig shot is not worth more than the 2+ townie deaths and investigative blocks that would occur in the case of my lynch.

I also don't see why Iris could've been a townread to you when your reasoning is essentially "she's townie until her claim is proven false," which is a line of reasoning that you chose not to apply for Phoenix's claim. You say that it's not entirely the reason you're townreading her, so would you care to give what the other reasons are?

Sure, SB may have just lent some credence to the claim, but you shouldn't have been aware of this at the time of your lynch priority post.

[Refa]

Yet you decided to put her as a worse lynch target than myself? A vig shot is not worth more than the 2+ townie deaths and investigative blocks that would occur in the case of my lynch.

I also don't see why Iris could've been a townread to you when your reasoning is essentially "she's townie until her claim is proven false," which is a line of reasoning that you chose not to apply for Phoenix's claim. You say that it's not entirely the reason you're townreading her, so would you care to give what the other reasons are?

Sure, SB may have just lent some credence to the claim, but you shouldn't have been aware of this at the time of your lynch priority post.

Wait...I did? *looks back* Oh, fuck me. I think I forgot about your claimed role and was just going primarily on what townreads I felt were stronger. Yeah, you'd be right before me. Er...next to me? Whatever.

That's not my reasoning. I specifically said her claim was part of the reason I was townreading more, nothing more. And sure, I can totally do that.

-Eagerness to start the game early on. Scum benefits more from an extended RVS than town.

-She's generally putting out a lot more content than she was in SF3 Mafia, which isn't necessarily towny but a lot more of it is original (e.g. not sheeped from other people) which is the important thing.

-Her explanations regarding her voteswaps are reasonable enough. This is a big contention I have with scummier players (making votes that don't logically fit in with their claimed reads), so it's kind of a big deal for me. The only place here where I have an issue is with her Poly vote, but her Elieson vote wasn't significantly stronger, so it didn't really bother me that much.

-Her Phoenix vote. It would have been easy for her to vote bearclaw considering his wagon was still bigger than Phoenix's (and she already stated to have townreads on Phoenix and FFM) and less people would have complained overall.

-"This sounds really weird, but in the case that I'm mislynched, I don't want you guys to be like "eclipse is scum" since I don't think scum!eclipse would try to push onto a mislynch. I think it's just this new aggressive play style she's using since she said she was rusty." This is just a gut read, but i don't see her saying this as scum.

-Claiming an easily provable role.

That's why it was a PEdit lol.

[spoiler=FFM Case]

So...FFM (Freedom Freedom 'Murica?). I think everyone can agree he's been pretty blatantly scummy this whole game. I mean, just look at his D1 play. His first "read" is talking about how Iris is defensive, but then he doesn't go anywhere with it. And it only gets worse from there; he OMGUS', defends himself with bad meta, makes an excess of filler posts, makes some late day prod votes, has minimal to flimsy reasoning on his reads, plays the newbie card, backflips on previous reads, and heads to bed at the most convenient times ever.

Honestly, this play was so bad that I was reading him as town at the beginning (also some part of that read was due to the large amount of people finding him scummy; large wagons appearing early on always seem suspect to me). Like I couldn't see the scum benefit in what he was doing and it confused the hell out of me. Yeah, later on I started reading him as scum after other people brought up some convincing arguments, but there was still some doubt considering just how obviously scummy he was before (which is why he was never at the top of my lynch priority). I just felt that there was still some chance that FFM could be newb town.

Well, that feeling is no longer there. See, after my reread I noticed a few issues with my prior assessment. Sure, newb town often does do things that more experienced players would be obviously scummy. Also, they do tend to be more defensive and weaker reads are kind of a given. However, he's missing a few things. Like you know, any sort of urge whatsoever to improve. In my experience, newb town does make an active effort to improve and that earnestness shows as the game progresses. I was expecting the same thing out of FFM and it never came. Instead, he's been perfectly willing to coast on his newb town appearance despite mentioning that he would "actually try" before the game started.

Another thing that bothers me about him is how lackadaisical he's been. Like, on a whole new level from me and Darros. I'm not really bothered by his various joke posts in RVS, but rather the amount of irrelevant comments afterwards (specifically referring to his replies when people were saying "yo, stop being scummy" rather than in general). He doesn't strike me as someone who's bothered at all by people voting him, which while being pretty similar to my overall demeanor, is not how I'd expect him to act considering his behavior elsewhere. And even when people point out issues with him, he's like "Yeah, I noticed it. Still don't give a fuck," which is at the very least antitown, if not scummy.

As far as his D2 is concerned, nothing has changed from D1. At all. If anything, it's even worse, as I can understand Town!FFM having a subpar Day 1 (Day 1 is generally the hardest day to get reads) but now he's coming across as willfully unhelpful (at best!). I really need to stop thinking that scum will play an optimal game, perhaps because I always hold them to my amazing scum play standards (no ego!). This situation overall feels similar to Galahad in SF3: A good deal of the playerbase finds him obviously scummy, but not enough people are willing to actually lynch him (in fact, he didn't ever get lynched) when the time comes. I don't want a repeat of that because I'm not scum this time.

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

[Refa]

Also should mention that I have no idea what to think of FFM's role and his handling of claiming it has been obnoxious at best. It annoys the hell out of me, but in the end it's a null tell.

[Iris]

I have to finish this essay soon but things I'll clarify before I get back to read (skimmed most things)

- I only claimed because it wasn't apparent from the item I gave out. Not for towncred or anything. I can character claim if y'all like if you want me to flavor-explain why this is the case. My other items aren't vigshots, but I'm not sure about the existence of a town vig or not. To me, the second kill seemed anti-town, but it could go either way.

- I forget who but someone was confused with my sudden conviction that Phoenix was scum. Euklyd, was it? That was less about his role, and more about the fact that he was acting scummy scum scum near end phase (didn't really respond the last half hour, etc.).

- I get the suspicion on eclipse, but I think it's just such an OP scum!role, like it would make me so mad if she was scum but I can't discount that possibility.

- I also asked for a sub, since I'm dying under exams (well preparing for those), but IDK if BBM got my message since Skype is weird. I'll play til he gets back to me on that. I'll be back late tonight to read and analyze accordingly.

[Refa]

10 bucks you're Bizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Darros]

Whatthefuckisthis.

Refa mentioned how I disappeared at the end of phase when really I was at work. Working to death. But I made over $150 in a day so it was cool.

Darros, I'd like you to answer two questions.

1) Considering Eurykins' role (compulsively tunnels the same person to death) and the fact that no other player has claimed blocked, do you believe that she targeted you?

2) Why did you claim?

1) I don't think so, based on the phrase 'Once you start though, you can't stop, and must compulsively target the same person until their death.', this to me looks like "you have to target the same person every night". The other reason that I'm saying no is because of this post right here.

2) I was asked for further clarification. So I clarified. What was I going to say, no?

Night action failed: First thought is role block but then you mentioned "Until further notice" What exactly does this mean? You're roleblocked indefinitely? At first I thought this was related to Eury's role but I highly doubt her roleblock continues to go on after she dies.

Exactly that. I have no idea when the roleblock stops, and I have no idea when I'll be able to act again.

Not liking this FFM wagon. Everyone voting him has essentially been saying "I still think he's scum because of my read on him from D1 and nothing happened overnight wrt FFM for my read to change." Don't the NKed people's reads mean anything? Don't the interactions in between Phoenix's claim and eclipse's turbo mean anything?

Eury had a scum read on FFM, bearclaw had a town read on FFM. It's inconsistent. This doesn't make FFM seem any more or less scummy to me.

Not sure why Darros hasn't voted yet, as he did put out a few content posts some hours ago.

I don't feel comfortable placing a vote on any one person right now, though I'm still leaning on FFM scum. I'm heading to bed shortly.

@Darros, you've got two listed scumreads, and you're not voting for either of them. Mind giving an actual reason as to why, instead of just saying that you're not comfortable with it?

It was 12 AM, I wanted more info before I would actually commit to a vote. I didn't see enoguh stuff D2 so far that was actually worth placing a vote over.

I'm really not sure where my head's at right now. FFM seems still way too scummy to me, but I really want to know more about his role. He said he actions preformed on him would fail, but then he denied the continuous roleblock. But it doesn't make sense for Eury's role to continue roleblocking me after he died. Unless of course that message was just standard. His words are also over the place. I've gone from probably scum to probably town to questionable. I'm very confused.

Fuck.

I'm also leaning on the idea of scum!Wen. His Day 1 content was basically nonexistant, then he comes into Day 2. His claim is vague, and I don't think an "easily provable" role is well off, unless he's trying to be under the radar and say he's the vig. If so I wouldn't be against an FFM shot, like Refa said. But I don't know if that's true. Since he was the one who asked me to claim, which apparently everyone said was a horrible idea, it seems to me that maybe he did that on purpose and that would be scummy.

I don't want to even entertain the idea of lynching GP. She and REfa are my biggest townreads right now.

I'm also questionable towards eclipse. She basically redirected our D1 lynch from the scummiest player to a claimed omniguard, for what seems to be to her own benefit. As a move, it doesn't seem to benefit the town at all, as we lost a protective role that could've been used. I'm not sure what eclipse's new power would be, but I don't know if it even exists. She might just be trying to say that to cover up her vig ((? it's sort of that?)) on Pheonix.

Between these three though I'd still lean towards FFM as scummiest.

##Vote: FFM

[Refa]

Wait...Wen asked you to claim? Huh, he did; that's a good point you bring up.

[Darros]

Yeah, and I didn't really think it would be a bad thing to do, saying no would be a bad idea! But FWIH everyone else seems to think it wasn't a great idea for me to claim. But Wen got me to do it, so if he's trying to get claims in the open that's kinda scummy.

[MRDRHAWK]

Back on a laptop, leggo

First off, my action apparently failed much as Darros' did, but I didn't get an "until further notice" thing tacked onto that. Which is odd that I learned this, based upon a certain kink in my role.

Second, full-game reads list, whoo~

Town

Poly (greatest drunkposter)

Shinori

Darros

Clipsey

Elie

Refa

Null

Junko

GP

Euklyd

Scum

Frosty

Iris

Wen

As for why the scumreads are scum as opposed to null:

Wen

-Seems to be parking his vote on FFM and doesn't provide many reasons for it aside from Frosty's own softclaim.

-Has me second on his lynch priority, despite my general inactivity in this game.

-Softed some sort of stupid power role that Clipsey called him out on.

-Very little D1 content to go off of, most of which is fluffposting.

-According to Darros, is rolefishing (I don't remember seeing this, but since Darros is one of my strongest townreads, I'm going to go with it).

Overall: Wen's bugging me for all the wrong reasons. Something seems really off to me wrt his reads - which, tbf, seem all over the place - and I'm not a fan of the content he does have.

Iris

-Most of the D1 content up until the last portion reads like fluff.

-The vote on me was basically sheeping Bear, based upon my inactivity (noticing a pattern yet?) and meta she doesn't even really know.

-Doesn't mention me any further afterwards, aside from a fleeting mention on ED1 when her lynch priority is brought up.

+That said, she has essentially claimed an inventor-esque role, which makes me hesitant to lynch her. Could be scum inventor, though, knowing SB/BBM.

Overall: Not liking the back-and-forth reads, but the inventor claim and possible sub make me not want to lynch her all that much today. Would leave for now.

Frosty

-Voteparking on me for a good chunk of the game, based off some early suspicions that I admittedly didn't convey too well, and inactivity (yep, a pattern! picking on the inactives, all scum).

-Votes Bear for more or less 'hypocrisy' and inactivity; AKA yet another votepark.

-Other votes D1 include Kopf (inactive for much of D1) and Elie (inactive to that point).

-Also reaction votes Shinori shortly after RVS, which read as very defensive.

-Remaining ISO mostly feels fluffy; only gives reads about twice through the game to date and never gave his thoughts on Phoenix despite being the counterwagon to him.

-Also appears to have put himself as some sort of OP role, which is weird.

Overall: Fluffy ISO, voteparks all over the place and a vague-as-fuck claim. I'd still rather lynch Wen than him, though.

##Vote: Wen

[Darros]

Well I never explicitly said he's rolefishing, but he did ask for my role and I claimed it. It's a possibility that he is and I wouldn't overlook it, but I don't think it's 100% certainly what he's doing. He did ask me for my role though, which people seemed to not see. If he's trying to go for under the radar he did a good job of it.

[Wen Yang]

Darros: I wasn't exactly intending on rolefishing, more that I wanted to know more about the delay on your being able to use your power further part, in case it crumbs more info on FFM, who I DO have a strong suspicion on.

As for Eclipse, I'm pretty convinced that she's a townie. She received an anonymous setup info last night, and I don't really see a reason why Scum!clipse would 1) announce it instead of keeping it for herself and 2) if faking it, choose an info that scum would readily know to begin with. Combined with her day 1 shenanigans which hints at a role that feels a bit too strong for maf, I'm 90% convinced she's town, and am mostly praying that nobody manages to kill her anytime soon.

As for me, I'm no power role. If anything, my role's kinda crappy.

I'm the one that crumbed Eclipse the anonymous info on setup from last night.

[Green Poet]

As for Eclipse, I'm pretty convinced that she's a townie. She received an anonymous setup info last night, and I don't really see a reason why Scum!clipse would 1) announce it instead of keeping it for herself and 2) if faking it, choose an info that scum would readily know to begin with. Combined with her day 1 shenanigans which hints at a role that feels a bit too strong for maf, I'm 90% convinced she's town, and am mostly praying that nobody manages to kill her anytime soon.

I'm the one that crumbed Eclipse the anonymous info on setup from last night.

eclipse's willingness to out the setup info you purportedly gave her in no way clears her as town.

Assuming your claim is legit, scum!eclipse would realize that if she did not out the info she received, then you would be able to claim your action and very easily get her lynched. There's also nothing that supports the idea that the info she outed is accurate.

And how is this role easily provable, like you said earlier? Does eclipse know that you were the one who targeted her? And even so, how do we know the two of you aren't scumbuddies, inventing this role so as to give you an easy fakeclaim?

To be clear, I'm not saying that anything about this claim makes either you or eclipse scummy, just that I don't see how it makes you more likely to be town in any capacity.

[Wen Yang]

No, Eclipse does not know it's from me. Although I can prove that I'm the source of said info since I can always crumb more of it to a different person tonight.

[Refa]

I don't get how your role works. Do you know what the anonymous information is before you send it?

[Wen Yang]

I don't get how your role works. Do you know what the anonymous information is before you send it?

Nope. I just know that I'm leaking some info on the setup, and that the accuracy of said info is only accurate until a certain (unknown to me) point of time.

[Refa]

So if eclipse was lying, you wouldn't know? Lame.

I suppose tonight you could just send it to one of your other town reads or something. I dunno.

[Green Poet]

No, Eclipse does not know it's from me. Although I can prove that I'm the source of said info since I can always crumb more of it to a different person tonight.

Sounds reasonable, I guess. Provided you aren't hooked (if you're really town, I doubt you will be since the sort of information that we've seen you're able to give doesn't endanger scum all too much), whomever you decide to give the info to should claim it as soon as they can D3. You can then verify that the person claiming is the one you sent the info to, and we'll see if any CCs pop up from there.