I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[MRDRHAWK]

Did your role get delayed until further notice or did it just fail?

Mine just failed, but it's odd that I got results of any sort.

Wait, why are you claiming this now as opposed to when Darros and FFM first made their claims? If you're scum considering fakeclaiming rolebombed doc/investigative, this is a very convenient lifeline. . .

I wasn't around then?

Plus, since I didn't get the same issues as Darros, I figured mine woulda been weird to claim then too.

[Junk]

Well it feels like we are either going to be lynching kopflajer or FFM for this phase. If I had to choose it would be kopflajer. For one you never bother to explain why you think FFM is scummy,

Also your poly scumread seems kind of weird as you say that poly was trying to distance himself from his scumbuddy. For one why would he vote FFM in the first place then basically tunnel him for the whole entire first day. Poly could have easily switched his vote to phoenix01 as phoenix was making it extremely obvious that he could be scum as well. Also you say poly did it to distance himself because was ffm was under attention when FFM had only 2 votes (poly and shinori).

Not defending poly here but it feels like you are just trying to up come up with another scumread besides FFM to make yourself look better.

Also FFM is blatantly hinting at an obviously scummy sounding role. Why would he tell everyone that his role blocks most actions if he was scum. If he is indeed scum it would appear he would be trying to play like a fool(the role). I am interested to hear his responses though to this wagon. This feels exactly like halloween from SF soh mafia. When he is town he plays scummy as hell. If he actually flips scum to frosty.

To me it feels like FFM is again leaning noob town while kopflajer is leaning scummy but I will wait and see until there is more content from him.

[euklyd]

Seriously now, though.

I don't understand why FFM is the leading wagon when:

-We can use this phase lynching someone who is actually likely scum based on night actions and roles rather than questionable/newb plays. . . as that's all I'm seeing the cases on FFM being built around.

-Darros' result will possibility tell us tomorrow whom FFM visited; if we find that he visited either Eury or bear, then we can proceed and lynch him with certainty.

What I'm saying is, there's a good chance we'll waste Darros' investigation if we lynch FFM today. So clearly you should all sheep me and vote Iris.

this makes no sense

It sounds like FFM delayed Darros' role indefinitely ("until further notice"); there's no reason to believe it'll go through tomorrow.

pedit: cut by Shinori

Regardless, there isn't exactly anyone who is obvscum on role/night action alone, unless you want to claim BULLETPROOF MILLER INFINITE-SHOT VIG or something.

(FFM is actually the scummiest as far as rolespec is concerned)

Also the cases on FFM are for being consistently scummy in actions as opposed to questionable logic or whatnot, not for acting like a newb. Also also he has a scummy as fuck role.

Alright, immediate thoughts with this "new" information:

-FFM is looking scummier; a reflexive rolebomber is far scummier than the reflexive roleblocker I'd initially misread him to be. This should've been claimed D1, especially since FFM was a very good doc target last night. And in that vein, it's highly suspect that FFM isn't dead right now.

-Darros is actually looking scummier to me as well, as his claim sets up an easy fakeclaim that also incriminates FFM by virtue of having an inherently scummy role. It absolves him from having to deliver night action results in the future as well. Conversely, it's possible that they're scumbuddies.

I suppose I might be willing to consolidate against FFM if it comes to it at phase end? Ugh. . .

Wait, why are you claiming this now as opposed to when Darros and FFM first made their claims? If you're scum considering fakeclaiming rolebombed doc/investigative, this is a very convenient lifeline. . .

this logic is really bad.

- FFM would be a terrible target for Docs, since they'd either be scumreading him (and therefore not protecting him) or they'd be townreading him (lol) and they'd know that he looks scummy enough to not be a likely nightkill.

- Why the fuck is it unlikely that FFM isn't dead? If he's scum then there's no fucking way scum would kill him, and on the off-change he's town then there's no fucking way that scum would kill him because he was looking so scummy.

So, FFM isn't scummy because he's not dead yet. He's scummy because he's been acting like scummy scum scum.

- Darros has no way of knowing that FFM has an inherently scummy role, unless you think they're scumbuddies or something.

wrt underlined - Poly, are you planning on CC'ing Bearclaw, and if so, would you like to claim scum now, or wait until you flip?

FFM still hasn't fullclaimed yet (is he self-aligned ascetic, mafia ascetic, mafia reflexive rolebomb, or what?), and Poly needs to clarify if he's been delayed indefinitely as well. Also, if he knows if his action failing came from FFM or if he was roleblocked by a separate role.

[MRDRHAWK]

From what I can tell, I haven't been delayed indefinitely, I just had my action last night fail. No other specification.

I presume if was from targeting FFM, unless Eury hooked me last night.

[Shinori]

I'd assume it's from targeting FFM.

Oh yeah speaking of which. Who was blocked by Eury? >_> I don't think anyone has claimed that yet.

[eclipse]

OK MANAGED TO GET FOOD POISONING LAST NIGHT,

But I'm alive and ok now, so it's time to play the game of catch up

Food poisoning from eating scummy food!

Seriously, get well soon. Being sick sucks.

@eclipse

Either I'm misunderstanding something crucial about your claim, or there's something you're not telling us.

What we know about your role from this:

1. You can turbo whenever you want, as evidenced by the underlined and your use of the role D1.

2. You can turbo people who aren't 1-shot protective roles, as evidenced by the bold.

Therefore, the two outcomes you've come up with, you can either "screw everyone over" lategame or "hit GP during MYLO and win it for scum," are not the only two things you can do. You can choose to turbo scum, and forego gaining the extra ability, which still incurs an advantage for town. To wit, I don't see why it was necessary to "burn" this turbo D1 when it can be used to kill scum.

You neglected to mention this town-beneficial potential use of your turbo, and instead demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice a town protective role in exchange for a role intuitively even stronger than omniguard, which you now had to claim (making it highly likely you'll die tonight anyway). Unless the use of this role is guaranteed to kill one or more mafioso even upon your death, this play will cost town more than it can give us.

##FoS: eclipse

I was originally going to target Iris way back when, but changed my mind, then reread my role, then realized that I could get something out of it while getting rid of someone who'd be a point of contention come D2. In the end, that was more like a dayvig shot, but with benefits.

Are you willing to claim EVERYTHING about your role this minute? No? Good. My intent was to make scum think that I was vanilla, which would make me a less attractive NK target. Just as NOT announcing your role at the start of the game is considered good play, so is withholding bits of information that the game doesn't need to know right then and there. To hold that as a point against me is the second thing that makes me feel a wee bit uncomfortable about you (the first being your early direct claim; IMO "Bad things happened when I'm lynched" would've sufficed, but we're no longer in D1).

Lastly, I'll disagree that the play "cost more"; it boils down to being a mislynch, which are both accounted for in numbers AND give us information. Furthermore, it kept the game from hanging on to Phoenix during D2 - FFM, at least, will respond to people occasionally. I'd say keeping the game active while getting the other half of my role was well worth it in my eyes. Do you have anything that ISN'T rolespec to hold against me? Because if this is the entirety of your case, then it's a flimsy one.

The most "official" name of the role I had is lynch redirect. These things are fucking powerful as mafia roles. Town roles. . .not so much (but they're great at preventing universal losses).

Refa. . .I'm an idiot. I mixed up GP and Shinori.

Darros. . .this is NOC, and even if you're talking to someone in the game about something completely and utterly unrelated. . .don't mention it in here. Please. For my sanity. To the rest of you, the second half of my role is easily proven. But I don't see a reason to claim what I gained, because I think scum got way the fuck too much free info already. I like watching scum squirm.

Yeah, and I didn't really think it would be a bad thing to do, saying no would be a bad idea! But FWIH everyone else seems to think it wasn't a great idea for me to claim. But Wen got me to do it, so if he's trying to get claims in the open that's kinda scummy.

REASONS TO CLAIM:

- Get a lynch off of you

- Get a lynch onto someone else (via night results/CC)

- Get a lynch off of someone else (via night results)

- Massclaim

- Needed to resolve a situation to get someone lynched/cleared

"Shits and giggles" doesn't appear anywhere on that list, and neither does "because I couldn't think of a reason not to". I think your claim was badly timed with very little reasoning. . .but not scummy by itself. THIS is how to claim blocked.

what I am confused about is that elieson mentions that he cannot confirm that he received a medkit from iris is what I think he was trying to say on post 501. What do you mean by you cannot "confirm this". Also if you indeed received something from iris as that post seems to imply what the heck is iris doing by going around and giving items to her scumreads?

I find it odd that someone who was sort-of keeping up makes a post like this. Elieson didn't say that at all.

DO. NOT. LIKE. Let FFM defend himself, especially since we only have a vague idea of what his role does. Unless you're his scumbuddy.

Oh yeah speaking of which. Who was blocked by Eury? >_> I don't think anyone has claimed that yet.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say that Darros fails at reading comprehension and that he was hit by Eury's role (now that we have Poly claiming a block, but not a permanent one).

There's either a typo in here, or I fail at reading comprehension.

FFM needs to get in here and clarify what the fuck his role does - that's my biggest beef with him ATM (that's right, nothing changed, because he said nothing today). I like Junko a lot less after his recent posts, because of that weird FFM defense and that epic Elieson misread. Wen needs to talk about more than himself - instead of giving the game a skimpost, I'd like reads supported by stuff people said. Would like GP to clarify whether Refa is voting for himself (which is what I saw), or whether I suck at reading, as well as comment on my content. I feel a bit better about Refa/Euklyd (though Refa could really cut down the recent spam) as they're posting actual logic, and Poly for somehow giving more opinions despite being absent than Wen (don't agree with Poly's final conclusion, though).

Since just about everyone else gave me something to think about, and FFM's role still bugs me. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

[FrostyFireMage]

My role only blocks non-killing actions during the night. So, basically, only vigilantes can affect me during that time. And other roles that can kill during the night, if there are any.

I'll read up and try to respond to questions.

[FrostyFireMage]

Well actually it's more along the lines of "immunity to non-killing actions no matter the time."

[FrostyFireMage]

@FFM: Outside of Poly who would you prefer to lynch? What other scumreads do you have? Respond to this when you get a chance.

You, eclipse and GP are in the green right now. If eclipse were mafia, her choice of sacrificing a townie for another townie is kind of a waste. Unless she thought my bad playing would make for a nice distraction, hyuck hyuck. It's too unsafe to target Green Poet because of her supposed role (besides, she's been contributing well) and you don't really give off any scummy vibes. My opinion of Poly has improved thanks to his content-filled post, although his sudden announcement that his action targeting me failed came pretty late. Perhaps a lie?

Elieson made a lot of quotes but didn't really expound upon them much and just seemed to say the obvious.

Refa's miniature essay on me was kind of unnecessary since apparently my scummy actions have been well documented. Almost like he's making it look like he has near-certain proof I'm scum although everything's been said already.

Will ISO Iris and Wen soon.

##Unvote

[FrostyFireMage]

I'll give my thoughts on Iris/Wen in the morning. Night all.

[Elieson]

Elie needs to do more, there isn't that much from him at the moment but I saw him here just a bit ago so I'll wait and see if anything comes from him in a bit.

I'm gonna say that I'm really uncomfortable with FFM though. His role is something that SK's and what not tend to get if I am right in thinking about that. And as far as I'm concerned there were two kills last night and Iris GAVE OUT a vig shot so I'm gonna assume that there wasn't a vig existant last night and I'm kind of going off of gut + logic.

Pedit: cut by Elie will read this in a bit. I'll be here on and off for now, playing some Hearthstone/league while reading Elie's post and chillin'.

ILY2 Buttnori

The rule that stated that there were no items in the game was removed.

This purdy much verifies that Iris's role is indeed a role.

It's possible. I can see how someone of any alignment would make the play she did, but it seems antitown to me in the long run.

Are you speculating about SK!eclipse?

I'm not really specc'ing it, but I won't lie, it did glaze across my mind.

Exactly that. I have no idea when the roleblock stops, and I have no idea when I'll be able to act again.

It was 12 AM, I wanted more info before I would actually commit to a vote. I didn't see enoguh stuff D2 so far that was actually worth placing a vote over.

I don't want to even entertain the idea of lynching GP. She and REfa are my biggest townreads right now.

I'd still lean towards FFM as scummiest.

##Vote: FFM

That's...not really matching Eury's role wrt results, from what I can gather.

You didn't have anything from D1 that warranted a vote to throw down for D2? Backtracking is a thing, you kno-

Wait wait wait

Right now I'm really doubting Refa's townieness due to his case on Pheonix yesterday, he seemed to really jump the opportunity to make Pheonix seem scummy, then Pheonix of course flips town. No one seems to have acknowleged this yet today.

Where exactly did your mind change on Refa now? you sure as heck didn't mention him inbetween your suspicion post of him and your town post of him, and they're both made within d2's time

eclipse's willingness to out the setup info you purportedly gave her in no way clears her as town.

more stuff on that

To be clear, I'm not saying that anything about this claim makes either you or eclipse scummy, just that I don't see how it makes you more likely to be town in any capacity.

This is a fair stance to uphold

what I am confused about is that elieson mentions that he cannot confirm that he received a medkit from iris is what I think he was trying to say on post 501. What do you mean by you cannot "confirm this". Also if you indeed received something from iris as that post seems to imply what the heck is iris doing by going around and giving items to her scumreads?

What th...how?

I read it as Elie trying to softclaim "I may or may not have investigated Iris N1,"

Elie said he might have received the item, not that he did receive the item.

THANK GOD SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS

I was trying to illustrate that nobody knows who has this [medkit], and for all anyone knows, I could have it. Can we please stop talking about who may or may not have a vig item now?

Alright, immediate thoughts with this "new" information:

-FFM is looking scummier; a reflexive rolebomber is far scummier than the reflexive roleblocker I'd initially misread him to be. This should've been claimed D1, especially since FFM was a very good doc target last night. And in that vein, it's highly suspect that FFM isn't dead right now.

-Darros is actually looking scummier to me as well, as his claim sets up an easy fakeclaim that also incriminates FFM by virtue of having an inherently scummy role. It absolves him from having to deliver night action results in the future as well. Conversely, it's possible that they're scumbuddies.

I suppose I might be willing to consolidate against FFM if it comes to it at phase end? Ugh. . .

Wait, why are you claiming this now as opposed to when Darros and FFM first made their claims? If you're scum considering fakeclaiming rolebombed doc/investigative, this is a very convenient lifeline. . .

Why would FFM be targeted by anything protective when he was the leading wagon pre-Eclipse?

{stuff regarding her role and her decision to turbo Phnx}

I think we've spent more time arguing with you about your justification for your actions, rather than what we might've spent with phnx actually here.

FFM needs to get in here and clarify what the fuck his role does - that's my biggest beef with him ATM (that's right, nothing changed, because he said nothing today). I like Junko a lot less after his recent posts, because of that weird FFM defense and that epic Elieson misread. Wen needs to talk about more than himself - instead of giving the game a skimpost, I'd like reads supported by stuff people said. Would like GP to clarify whether Refa is voting for himself (which is what I saw), or whether I suck at reading, as well as comment on my content. I feel a bit better about Refa/Euklyd (though Refa could really cut down the recent spam) as they're posting actual logic, and Poly for somehow giving more opinions despite being absent than Wen (don't agree with Poly's final conclusion, though).

Since just about everyone else gave me something to think about, and FFM's role still bugs me. . .

Agreed on Euklyds activity being up, though only his most recent post has anything resembling quality in it.

My role only blocks non-killing actions during the night. So, basically, only vigilantes can affect me during that time. And other roles that can kill during the night, if there are any.

Not liking this post one bit

---

Darros really needs to expand on his Refa read.

Iris's last post is jumbled in all sorts of ways, and I don't see her content improving.

FFM is just plain bad, and I'm not finding the responses to be overly town, nor overly cooperative. His cases are a mix of "all over the place" but "one at a time", and I really don't have a clear view of his scumreads

I could sheep this Wen case, because honestly, he's just read to me as "forgettable"

Frosty >> Euklyd > Iris/Wen

Is frosty at L-2 now?

[Elieson]

Yea, ISO'ing Wen doesn't really have him read as "scummy" to me, just as "overly boring", which makes him look worse by comparison. Oddly enough, Poly's the one with the best case on him so far that seems to present him as more scummy than anyone else (I'm just not used to saying "Woah, poly is making good sense here").

[MRDRHAWK]

So, basically, Frosty has a passive self-Safeguard? That seems overpowered as fuck, especially with Phoenix's flipped Omniguard.

[Green Poet]

Not liking this post one bit

Why's that? Do you think he's a bomb or something? At face value, I don't see how FFM clarifying on how only vigs can get through his selfguard is much different from me clarifying on how only vigs won't trigger my role.

There's either a typo in here, or I fail at reading comprehension.

To clarify, then:

-I brought up how in D1 Refa said that Iris shouldn't claim.

-Refa defends what he said with something close to "Why would I want Iris to claim D1 if she was going to claim ED2 anyway?"

-I say this is faulty logic because Iris never said she was going to claim, so scum!Refa likely slipped that this was said in scumchat.

-Refa responds by sarcastically (?) agreeing that this is true. Discussion ends there, as there's nothing I can really say.

Also FFM is blatantly hinting at an obviously scummy sounding role. Why would he tell everyone that his role blocks most actions if he was scum. If he is indeed scum it would appear he would be trying to play like a fool(the role). I am interested to hear his responses though to this wagon.

I agree with this.

I would think that not claiming/at least crumbing reflexive rolebomb D1 is grounds for a policy lynch, but what makes me hesitant is how FFM hasn't clarified on what his role actually does; he said that actions targeting him will fail, which shouldn't stop people from being able to use their action on subsequent nights. It's possible that FFM blocked Darros, and scum destroyed Darros' role. I think that a fullclaim from him is in order.

@Euklyd - I actually don't have responses to much of this post. I didn't take into account a lot of things when quickly writing my first post after realizing what FFM's roles actually does, and that's my fault. You raise a good point about how FFM wouldn't be NKed regardless of alignment.

@eclipse - Making scum think you're vanilla for N1 is fine, so long as your newly gained role can pay back the opportunity cost of a lost 1-shot omniguard and 1-shot turbolyncher tonight, as scum is no longer ignorant of your non-vanilla-ness. I can see where you're coming from as town, but I'm still having trouble trying to see how this play can possibly pay off what it's required. At this time, I'm just slightly more inclined to believe you're town, by virtue of the vibes I'm getting from your posts and how OP a scum turbolyncher would be.

TL;DR:

BULLETPROOF MILLER INFINITE-SHOT VIG

If this isn't eclipse's new role, we're at a disadvantage.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to encourage a claim from anyone other than FFM right now.

[BBM]

VOTALS

FFM (5) - Kopfjager, Euklyd, Refa, Darros, Eclipse

Eukyld (2) - Elieson, Iris

Kopfjager (2) - Shinori, Polydeuces

Iris (1) - Green Poet

Refa (1) - Junko

Not Voting (1) - FFM

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer and 4 to lynch at deadline. You have 24 hours and 56 minutes remaining. Phase ends on Thursday May 1st at 5 PM EST (10 PM GMT).

Edited April 30, 2014 by BBM

[Elieson]

Why's that? Do you think he's a bomb or something? At face value, I don't see how FFM clarifying on how only vigs can get through his selfguard is much different from me clarifying on how only vigs won't trigger my role.

Because he's saying that only Vigs and Killing Roles can get through him, and didn't mention anything about factional kills, or just kills in general. It looks like a scumslip, to me.

[Shinori]

FFM is at L-2 now guys so let's be careful with that.

[BBM]

Bluedoom (Marth) has been subbed in for Iris.

[Bluedoom]

MY HERO, he's here!

[eclipse]

That's a nice list of who you DON'T want to lynch and people of interest, but it doesn't answer the question.

My role only blocks non-killing actions during the night. So, basically, only vigilantes can affect me during that time. And other roles that can kill during the night, if there are any.

I'll read up and try to respond to questions.

.....

That doesn't say whether it's passive/active. Yes, this is important.

To clarify, then:

-I brought up how in D1 Refa said that Iris shouldn't claim.

-Refa defends what he said with something close to "Why would I want Iris to claim D1 if she was going to claim ED2 anyway?"

-I say this is faulty logic because Iris never said she was going to claim, so scum!Refa likely slipped that this was said in scumchat.

-Refa responds by sarcastically (?) agreeing that this is true. Discussion ends there, as there's nothing I can really say.

While I think the premise is a bit nitpicky, Refa's response is interesting (and not in a good way for my read on him). Rather than give a reasonable explanation, he blew it off.

@eclipse - Making scum think you're vanilla for N1 is fine, so long as your newly gained role can pay back the opportunity cost of a lost 1-shot omniguard and 1-shot turbolyncher tonight, as scum is no longer ignorant of your non-vanilla-ness. I can see where you're coming from as town, but I'm still having trouble trying to see how this play can possibly pay off what it's required. At this time, I'm just slightly more inclined to believe you're town, by virtue of the vibes I'm getting from your posts and how OP a scum turbolyncher would be.

I'm confident that it will work out. I wouldn't have said anything about the second half of my role if I didn't think it was worth it~!

TL;DR:

If this isn't eclipse's new role, we're at a disadvantage.

I got host powers, I can see the entire scum team. Lynch SB now!

Because he's saying that only Vigs and Killing Roles can get through him, and didn't mention anything about factional kills, or just kills in general. It looks like a scumslip, to me.

Nitpicky? IMO, yes. Does this do anything for my read on him? Nope.

[Bluedoom]

Ok so I'm gonna start off by saying that if I were to fullclaim now, my role wouldn't make sense as town for a lot of you, but if I was scum I'd be too OP. Take this as you will.

I feel like Wen his town since his play is consistent with his town meta. He's lazy and likes to play the rolegame more than the scumhunting game.

I'm ok with an FFM lynch since even if it happens to be a mislynch we get a ton of associative reads( I mean everyone seems to have been focusing on him this phase.) Ascetic/reflexive rolebomber seems like a weak claim too.

I'm a short of time atm but I promise to post more in a few hours from now.

[eclipse]

WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT CLAIMING?! Marth, reread my ISO!

[Shinori]

Iris isn't even a wagon atm. x.x

[Bluedoom]

What I didn't think of a wagon I'm just crumbing ok? Yeah I just got back from driving school so I'll re-read.

[euklyd]

Heads up I'm studying for calculus tonight, since I've got a thing tomorrow morning, but I'll be around tomorrow for like the entire 4.5 hours before deadline.

If I'm smart I won't do something like make another post here before going to bed.

also >crumbing

That's not a crumb, sorry. That's more like a softclaim, which really doesn't help anything imo.

anyways calc.