I'm tired of people saying games are too easy these days.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, to put it bluntly, I am.

Because I very much disagree. I've seen people make this complaint mainly about Pokemon, but I've seen other franchises get it as well. Sure, I will admit that I don't have as much difficulty with some games today as I did with games in the past.

But you know what? In the past, I was an inexperienced little kid. Now I'm a nearly 24 year old adult that's smarter and can think more. This is why games seem easier for us now, because we've gotten smarter and better at playing them.

And even then, I still find some games today to be difficult to some level. The 2D Mario platformers remain tough, though not quite as painfully hard as they were in the NES and SNES days and imo, they kinda needed to tone it down a bit in difficulty. Remember stuff like Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels? Yeah.

Another thing, even some teenagers and adults today find recent/new games hard. People new to Zelda found Twilight Princess hard, I heard. I found it to be tricky in some places too. Skyward Sword really gave me a challenge with the new gameplay controls. Took me some time to get the hang of them, and I was stumped in several areas when trying to figure out what to do (despite Fi being around too).

Lastly, kids today play these games too. Those old games you found frustratingly hard when you were a kid? They'll end up with the same fate if games get increased difficulty.

Now, developers can, and should add difficulty settings to solve everybody's problems. Fire Emblem does it, so other franchises can too. A kid can have fun playing the easy mode, and a series veteran can enjoy the harder difficulty. Zelda adds Hero Mode now, but that's gotta be unlocked. Pokemon DID add some unlockable difficulty settings as well in gen 5, but now they're not around anymore (which I seriously find to be wtf).

Am I right here?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Anacybele

[Sentacotus]

I think games now in days just seem easier because the more you play them the better you get at them. For games like Zelda and Metroid you get used to seeing the same kinds of puzzles so you know what to do from the get go. That being said Metroid Prime on the GCN was one of the hardest most frustrating games I have played same for FE7 granted I was 13 at the time and it was my very first but still. I even find Lunatic on FEA to be a challenge I didn't even want to try + after that. Another more modern release that's quite challenging is Bayonetta 2. Third Climax and Musselpheim portals are straight up torture and go ahead and try and get Pure Platinum on all acts.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, that too. The more you play them, the better you'll get at them too. I used to suck at platformers, now I'm pretty decent at them given that I managed to beat that PAINFULLY hard Daredevil run of Grandmaster Galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy 2. And even today, I still never want to attempt that level again. And this is probably the reason that even Super Mario Bros. games today seem a little easier. I can even get a lot farther in the old SNES games now than I could as a kid.

[EricaofRenais]

You are right on some things, but I would like being able to choose a harder difficulty from the start in all games because I have found some games to be a little too easy (looking at you ALBW) on the first play through. I do find the NES Zelda games to be hard and I think that they are making the games a bit easier to play and I think that all games should have the player choose a difficulty setting at the start and make it so veterans to the series have to play on easy mode to unlock a mode that is made for their level.

[Quintessence]

Well Pokemon X/Y is a piece of cake, same with ORAS, although ORAS's Exp. Share made things less easier, and still it is easymodo.

I think games now in days just seem easier because the more you play them the better you get at them. For games like Zelda and Metroid you get used to seeing the same kinds of puzzles so you know what to do from the get go. That being said Metroid Prime on the GCN was one of the hardest most frustrating games I have played same for FE7 granted I was 13 at the time and it was my very first but still. I even find Lunatic on FEA to be a challenge I didn't even want to try + after that. Another more modern release that's quite challenging is Bayonetta 2. Third Climax and Musselpheim portals are straight up torture and go ahead and try and get Pure Platinum on all acts.

Not so sure about Bayonetta 2 being that of a challenge even on 3rd Climax, maybe Infinite Climax because Umbran Climax makes things so much easier. I recall doing good on 2nd Climax, but did much better on 3rd, I even got a Platinun rank on it, but maybe it is just experience.

Edit: Bayonetta 1 on the other hand, is haard. Or I still am in n00b tier.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Quintessence

[EricaofRenais]

I meant that veterans should not be made to play the easy mode.

[Sentacotus]

Well Pokemon X/Y is a piece of cake, same with ORAS, although ORAS's Exp. Share made things less easier, and still it is easymodo.

Not so sure about Bayonetta 2 being that of a challenge even on 3rd Climax, maybe Infinite Climax because Umbran Climax makes things so much easier. I recall doing good on 2nd Climax, but did much better on 3rd, I even got a Platinun rank on it, but maybe it is just experience.

Edit: Bayonetta 1 on the other hand, is haard. Or I still am in n00b tier.

YES dude screw that game and infinite climax. I hate how you get platinum and you think thats the best but noooooo theres pure platinum.

EDIT: Its a great game go buy it.

Edited February 3, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Lord Glenn]

While I do think that being older and having more playing experience (better reflexes, more critical thinking, etc) does play a role in the difficulty (or lack thereof) in games being released at present, I don't think it's the sole factor.

Take examples of some classic NES games, for instance. Even adult gamers with decades of playing experience still have trouble clearing Battletoads on the NES because it can be that unforgiving. You have to remember that games made back for the NES, Genesis/Mega Drive, SNES, etc., especially those that did not contain the capacity to save, were created to be difficult as a means of padding out playing times. Players were expected to do poorly, forcing them to replay the game until they were able to master it and beat the game.

Nowadays, some games have in-level checkpoints/auto-saves, meaning you can just revert to a backup and redo something if you fail, significantly reducing the amount of content that you'd need to play through to get back to where you were. Plus, with the advent of more storage capacity for discs and/or digital storage, some of the constraints that were imposed on older games (possibly) due to technology limitations (thereby making the game more difficult) are no longer issues.

Do I think that all games need to be "NES-Hard"? Absolutely not. As you said, games like Pokémon need to be accomodating to new players. Plus, with the influx of the "casual" market (mobile/tablet gaming, the Wii explosion, etc.), those players need to be accomodated too. However, it's basically empirically proven that Pokémon (for example), even factoring in player age, has gotten easier over time. I mean, just look at Sabrina's team in Yellow - three Level 50 Pokémon (only two of which really count though, being the Kadabra and Alakazam) and all of the undisputed best type in Gen 1! Nowadays, we get cases where the Elite Four consists of a "Choose your own order, we only have four Pokémon to choose from, and we don't even have a Round 2!" setup, which isn't really challenging, even if you self-impose challenges on yourself.

The statement I most agree with is your last, though. It's 2015 - I can't understand how all games (unless they're expressly tailored to a specific crowd like Battle Kid or something like that) aren't created with difficulty settings from the beginning*. It's a world where games are released so frequently that developers are basically fighting over the available pool of money more than they ever had before, and in that environment, don't you want your product to be readily accessible to the most amount of people, thereby increasing your likelihood of making a sale? (Note, this does not mean reducing the game to the Lowest Common Denominator just to attempt to draw in crowds that weren't going to buy the game and still won't buy it anyway.)

*Plus, speaking as somone holding a degree in Computer Science, it's basically a tenet of development that it's much harder to add/force something in to your product after you've already started than if you include that idea from the beginning and plan you development schedule accordingly; that is, if you say "We must have scalable difficulty levels for this game" when you're in early development, you can set that in motion in the beginning such that all of the other systems work with it in mind, which would be a much harder task if you try to add it in later. As someone who studied software engineering, this is astounding that major development companies don't want to factor it in (probably under the excuse of costing additional resources, but I digress).

[Ema Skye]

The actual gameplay of the game isn't getting harder (Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy have near identical gameplay aside from the gravity) but games, through trying to be more accommodating to new players, are artificially making themselves easier.

I played Wind Waker for the first time just over a month ago as my first Zelda game. There wasn't much of a tutorial and the game, at points, never told you where to go unless you fed the fish. I've more recently started up Skyward Sword and I'm finding it much easier because the game tells you more. Even simple things like "Press blah to do blah" make the game easier when it tells you (I spent an hour trying to figure out how to put an object down on a switch in Wind Waker).

[Skynstein]

While I do think that being older and having more playing experience (better reflexes, more critical thinking, etc) does play a role in the difficulty (or lack thereof) in games being released at present, I don't think it's the sole factor.

Take examples of some classic NES games, for instance. Even adult gamers with decades of playing experience still have trouble clearing Battletoads on the NES because it can be that unforgiving. You have to remember that games made back for the NES, Genesis/Mega Drive, SNES, etc., especially those that did not contain the capacity to save, were created to be difficult as a means of padding out playing times. Players were expected to do poorly, forcing them to replay the game until they were able to master it and beat the game.

Nowadays, some games have in-level checkpoints/auto-saves, meaning you can just revert to a backup and redo something if you fail, significantly reducing the amount of content that you'd need to play through to get back to where you were. Plus, with the advent of more storage capacity for discs and/or digital storage, some of the constraints that were imposed on older games (possibly) due to technology limitations (thereby making the game more difficult) are no longer issues.

Do I think that all games need to be "NES-Hard"? Absolutely not. As you said, games like Pokémon need to be accomodating to new players. Plus, with the influx of the "casual" market (mobile/tablet gaming, the Wii explosion, etc.), those players need to be accomodated too. However, it's basically empirically proven that Pokémon (for example), even factoring in player age, has gotten easier over time. I mean, just look at Sabrina's team in Yellow - three Level 50 Pokémon (only two of which really count though, being the Kadabra and Alakazam) and all of the undisputed best type in Gen 1! Nowadays, we get cases where the Elite Four consists of a "Choose your own order, we only have four Pokémon to choose from, and we don't even have a Round 2!" setup, which isn't really challenging, even if you self-impose challenges on yourself.

The statement I most agree with is your last, though. It's 2015 - I can't understand how all games (unless they're expressly tailored to a specific crowd like Battle Kid or something like that) aren't created with difficulty settings from the beginning*. It's a world where games are released so frequently that developers are basically fighting over the available pool of money more than they ever had before, and in that environment, don't you want your product to be readily accessible to the most amount of people, thereby increasing your likelihood of making a sale? (Note, this does not mean reducing the game to the Lowest Common Denominator just to attempt to draw in crowds that weren't going to buy the game and still won't buy it anyway.)

*Plus, speaking as somone holding a degree in Computer Science, it's basically a tenet of development that it's much harder to add/force something in to your product after you've already started than if you include that idea from the beginning and plan you development schedule accordingly; that is, if you say "We must have scalable difficulty levels for this game" when you're in early development, you can set that in motion in the beginning such that all of the other systems work with it in mind, which would be a much harder task if you try to add it in later. As someone who studied software engineering, this is astounding that major development companies don't want to factor it in (probably under the excuse of costing additional resources, but I digress).

Most of the games I have with different difficulty settings are basically enemies have more HP and damage. They behave exactly the same save for that. It's quite lazy.

The only reason consoles took longer to have saves is that they didn't have storage capacity. PC games had save states from the very beginning. The ability to save anywhere is very convenient and saves a lot of time.

I personally don't mind that games are easy because I want to enjoy the artistic aspects of a game as well.

[MRDRHAWK]

If a game is too challenging the first time through and there's no OP newgame+ benefits, self-impose a challenge. Get creative. If the game feels like a babby-made slogfest, then get creative to add challenge. Why do you think Nuzlockes and monotype runs and their ilk are so widely done in Pokemon now?

I feel like people are bitching at the developers for their personal lack of creativity - if it's not fun because the game is intristically bad then it's one thing, but if you enjoy the game outside of the lower-than-desired gameplay, then make it harder on yourself in some way. Spice it up, try something new, stop bitching about games you don't hate just because they aren't Dark Souls-hard.

[Anacybele]

I played Wind Waker for the first time just over a month ago as my first Zelda game. There wasn't much of a tutorial and the game, at points, never told you where to go unless you fed the fish. I've more recently started up Skyward Sword and I'm finding it much easier because the game tells you more. Even simple things like "Press blah to do blah" make the game easier when it tells you (I spent an hour trying to figure out how to put an object down on a switch in Wind Waker).

Strange, I found TWW to be one of the easiest games I ever played. The monsters were pathetic, the dungeons were super easy to figure out, and Ganondorf wasn't hard either. The only part that had ANY kind of challenge was the Puppet Ganon battle, and even then, I only died once. That was the only time in the game I ever died on my first playthrough. I died at least a dozen times in Skyward Sword, and the enemies got way tricker to beat. Especially the ones where you had to hit them a certain way in order to do damage.

[Jedi]

I feel like there needs to be a choice between doing a lengthy tutorial (looking at you KH2 and Skyward Sword) and not, or else people who have played such series before are going to be turned off.

Skyward Sword is my least favorite Zelda game for just how much the game holds your freaking hand, and how Fi constantly, constantly, constantly interrupts the gameplay.

[Interest]

I'm just going to drop this here because I see this topic a lot and I often use this video as the source for arguing about game difficulty, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U

I'll drop this too because it's also relevant. Based Extra Credits is based (despite what their stance on the "Gamersgate" issue may be...).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

Edit: I'm inclined to give players the benefit of the doubt when they find a game frustrating or difficult, especially with games that require a significant amount of immersion like WoW or League. I've been playing the bloody game for years, so it's fair to say I learned a few things during that time.

More than that, short of a multiplayer game (and even then that's not saying much), who am I to judge someone for how they play or what they play? It's not like it's actually affecting me if someone wants to play on an easier difficulty or play an objectively easier game, much like how (serious part here) people get offended over gay marriage and relationships despite the fact neither really affects them (except for the fact it bothers them probably).

Seriously, there's plenty of options out there. Easy games do indeed exist but if one truly has a problem with them or the people who choose to play said "easy games," perhaps they're actually part of the problem? Having a massive superiority complex isn't going to help - it just makes one look like an elitist jerk and sometimes the concept of what game is "easy" or not can be heavily skewed anyways due to subjectivity.

Ramble ramble.

Edit2: I agree with what the topic tries to convey, but the presentation feels like some weird reversal that makes one seem like they're complaining about people complaining about game difficulty, but on the other hand I might be a hypocrite.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Interest

[Jedi]

Those videos do hit the point home. Really good post Interest.

[Sentacotus]

Don't know if this has been brought up yet but do any of you think part of it is the prevalence of the internet? I mean its super easy to look up any multitude of guides and strategies which are quite detailed. Furthermore, you now have full lets plays of games and walkthroughs telling you how to beat a particular challenge or unlock a certain achievement.

[kittyinpink]

I completely agree. Though some certain tittles just feel way to easy. The new pokemon ruby and sapphire seemed super easy.

[Ercdouken]

In the future, all video games will just require you to press one button to win the entire game.

[Draco]

Yeah, but I'm 13. You're 24 and it might be excusable for why you think it's easier, but I also think games today are easier. Seriously, go play a Megaman game or something, that's some hard stuff. When did those originate? On the NES, which was a long time ago.

While I greatly enjoyed Pokemon X/Y, I also think that one was a lot easier. They just borderline hand stuff to you almost the entire game.

[Florete]

People who think games are too easy aren't looking hard enough. There are way more games being made today than ever before, plenty of them specifically designed to cater to an older audience looking for a hardcore challenge.

[Sentacotus]

People who think games are too easy aren't looking hard enough. There are way more games being made today than ever before, plenty of them specifically designed to cater to an older audience looking for a hardcore challenge.

I actually fine that alot of indie titles fit into this. Just try getting S rank in Edge's stages. Hell some of them are just hard to beat and you get unlimited continues in there too. Also for those of you looking to go back a little bit just look up Ikaruga on the GCN ( I also think its on Xbox Arcade).

Megaman 8 is another to consider as well.

Edited February 3, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Zera]

@Interest: You NAILED it. You should treat yourself to a cookie. A really big, 20 pound cookie.

If you think there are too many easy games, play harder games.

If you think there are too many hard games, play easier games.

Just as there is an innumerable amount of games and play styles, there is much variety of difficulty within those play styles.

If you know what kind of games you like, I will help you find one that suits your style, with the appropriate challenge level. Just say the word.

[Shadow Mir]

Difficulty doesn't really matter to me - I just don't want a game to be hard for all the wrong reasons *cough*Lunatic+*cough*

Edited February 3, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[PuffPuff]

Well Pokemon X/Y is a piece of cake, same with ORAS, although ORAS's Exp. Share made things less easier, and still it is easymodo.

You can always make it harder

BigKlingy is having fun with it!

-No items

-No EXP Share

That's as far as I'm seeing it in this challenge run that he did. Try it!

As you said, games like Pokémon need to be accomodating to new players. Plus, with the influx of the "casual" market (mobile/tablet gaming, the Wii explosion, etc.), those players need to be accomodated too. However, it's basically empirically proven that Pokémon (for example), even factoring in player age, has gotten easier over time. I mean, just look at Sabrina's team in Yellow - three Level 50 Pokémon (only two of which really count though, being the Kadabra and Alakazam) and all of the undisputed best type in Gen 1! Nowadays, we get cases where the Elite Four consists of a "Choose your own order, we only have four Pokémon to choose from, and we don't even have a Round 2!" setup, which isn't really challenging, even if you self-impose challenges on yourself.

Well...

Only getting super effected by Pin Missle and having high offenses made them unstoppable and nowadays, choosing which E4 to battle made it good to prepare for your hardest battle with them for whatever match that your team does terribly with (whoever you lost against for example.) for them to get a little more experienced with.

-----

Personally, I make my own challenges for anything that's too easy. But...sometimes, I just plainly want to enjoy the story! :D

The NES era was always the hardest...the nowadays games always are fun to play to see what the game developers have in store for you. ...And *poke* wb, Int. :D Spoken true to what you said!

Edited February 3, 2015 by PuffPuff

[Bankai]

While some newer games are easier most games have a difficulty setting for a reason look at the Dynasty Warrior games sure all you do is mash the attack button but on the hardest difficulty chaos mode you would be destroyed if you don't know what your doing.